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SuperboyReformed Star Player
Joined: 07 Oct 2012 Posts: 4083
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Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2015 9:23 pm Post subject: |
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fiendishoc wrote: | If you go to NBA.com Play Type stats and sort players by off screen efficiency, it really takes a long time to get to Kobe. |
once again....even though you are not saying it explicitly, this is an incomplete analysis. if you are saying kobe is not an efficient screen player, that is inconclusive. kobe has never really played in a screen system. comparing him to reggie or curry, etc. is a little crazy since the systems are different.
those guys that use screens have a coaching team and organization spending millions of dollars creating and practicing a system to get their superstar open on screens. kobe-lakers don't do that. so what are we comparing? it doesn't work. |
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SweetP Star Player
Joined: 23 Jun 2005 Posts: 6054 Location: My own little piece of reality
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Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2015 9:55 pm Post subject: |
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SuperboyReformed wrote: | non-player zealot wrote: | His first screen was set for him by Karl Malone in his first all star game and that worked out just fine if my memory serves me correctly. They gave each other dap after Kobe accepted the screen and hit the shot. Malone had nothing but nice things to say about Kobe's graciousness after the game.
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lo freakin l.
i don't think folks are getting this one! which makes it even more .
first person to accurately address this post gets a green banana. |
Anyone who was a Laker fan at that time knows 19 yr-old Kobe waved Malone off in his first all-star game, and pissed off the established vets. Kid was brash. _________________ “There is always light if only we're brave enough to see it, if only we're brave enough to be it.” --Amanda Gorman |
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44-25 Starting Rotation
Joined: 05 Aug 2013 Posts: 447
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Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2015 9:06 am Post subject: |
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SweetP wrote: | SuperboyReformed wrote: | non-player zealot wrote: | His first screen was set for him by Karl Malone in his first all star game and that worked out just fine if my memory serves me correctly. They gave each other dap after Kobe accepted the screen and hit the shot. Malone had nothing but nice things to say about Kobe's graciousness after the game.
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lo freakin l.
i don't think folks are getting this one! which makes it even more .
first person to accurately address this post gets a green banana. |
Anyone who was a Laker fan at that time knows 19 yr-old Kobe waved Malone off in his first all-star game, and pissed off the established vets. Kid was brash. |
I prefer to remember the great team cohesiveness of the Laker 2004 roster. |
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venturalakersfan Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144461 Location: The Gold Coast
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Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2015 9:17 am Post subject: |
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ringfinger wrote: | fiendishoc wrote: | He was a pretty bad shooter last year, even when wide open. He was 40% on 2's and 29% on 3's with no defender within 6+ feet of him, 28% on catch and shoot shots, and 26% on catch and shoot 3's.
Hopefully that was due to the shoulder, but it could also have been wear and tear on the legs. His best form of attack last season was drawing fouls and his passing. |
I'd have to imagine a lot of those came how they have typically come. Off the ISO, after a series of dribbling and over a defender's hand.
If he plays off the ball, he'd be more wide open and I think we'd see better efficiency there. |
That's some crazy length if a defender is 6+ feet away but can still get his hand on Kobe's shot. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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angrypuppy Retired Number
Joined: 13 Apr 2001 Posts: 32752
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Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2015 9:35 am Post subject: |
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non-player zealot wrote: | His first screen was set for him by Karl Malone in his first all star game and that worked out just fine if my memory serves me correctly. They gave each other dap after Kobe accepted the screen and hit the shot. Malone had nothing but nice things to say about Kobe's graciousness after the game.
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Later that respect and friendship was cemented further by Karl's open admiration of Vanessa Laine Bryant. |
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non-player zealot Franchise Player
Joined: 05 Nov 2007 Posts: 21365
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Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2015 8:53 pm Post subject: |
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angrypuppy wrote: | non-player zealot wrote: | His first screen was set for him by Karl Malone in his first all star game and that worked out just fine if my memory serves me correctly. They gave each other dap after Kobe accepted the screen and hit the shot. Malone had nothing but nice things to say about Kobe's graciousness after the game.
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Later that respect and friendship was cemented further by Karl's open admiration of Vanessa Laine Bryant. |
Good point. Hey, do you remember when Isiah Thomas hit Malone coming down the middle and gave him 40 stitches? Disgusting move by Isiah. _________________ GOAT MAGIC REEL
SEDALE TRIBUTE
EDDIE DONX! |
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theboiijames Rookie
Joined: 06 Aug 2015 Posts: 11
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Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2015 9:40 pm Post subject: |
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No, how do you think he's averaged so many points? he's always been extremely ball dominant. |
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Truck Turner Star Player
Joined: 28 Apr 2011 Posts: 3937
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Posted: Fri Aug 07, 2015 11:07 am Post subject: |
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30 wrote: | Go back to the season where we got Dwight and Nash and I think when we ran the Princeton offense for the first 5-6 games Kobe played off ball a lot, and he was really efficient. |
I believe he was more efficient during that period than he was at any other point of his career.
The only reason he went back to being ball dominate was because Nash couldn't pick up the Princeton, then got hurt and they had nobody else to run a decent offense.
Kobe has gone on record saying NUMEROUS times that he doesn't want the ball in his hands so much, but the Lakers have never had a better playmaker than him (that was healthy or comfortable in whatever system was being used). |
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FerrisVille Star Player
Joined: 12 Aug 2003 Posts: 5356
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Posted: Fri Aug 07, 2015 12:58 pm Post subject: |
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so many people whine about Kobe, really you all should just shut up and watch a legend end his career. No player poured his heart and soul into his game like Kobe did.
And he did it for the purple and Gold, he did it for his fans and every person watching him to set an example.
I am grateful for every game he played for the Lakers, its a chapter you'll never get to revisit live again.
Just like West, Kareem, Magic, Wilt, Shaq, etc. once in a lifetime player. |
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angrypuppy Retired Number
Joined: 13 Apr 2001 Posts: 32752
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Posted: Fri Aug 07, 2015 3:41 pm Post subject: |
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non-player zealot wrote: | angrypuppy wrote: | non-player zealot wrote: | His first screen was set for him by Karl Malone in his first all star game and that worked out just fine if my memory serves me correctly. They gave each other dap after Kobe accepted the screen and hit the shot. Malone had nothing but nice things to say about Kobe's graciousness after the game.
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Later that respect and friendship was cemented further by Karl's open admiration of Vanessa Laine Bryant. |
Good point. Hey, do you remember when Isiah Thomas hit Malone coming down the middle and gave him 40 stitches? Disgusting move by Isiah. |
Totally classless move. I'm surprised at how many players were allowed to blatantly maul Karl with their elbows. |
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SuperboyReformed Star Player
Joined: 07 Oct 2012 Posts: 4083
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Posted: Fri Aug 07, 2015 4:12 pm Post subject: |
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FerrisVille wrote: | so many people whine about Kobe, really you all should just shut up and watch a legend end his career. No player poured his heart and soul into his game like Kobe did.
And he did it for the purple and Gold, he did it for his fans and every person watching him to set an example.
I am grateful for every game he played for the Lakers, its a chapter you'll never get to revisit live again.
Just like West, Kareem, Magic, Wilt, Shaq, etc. once in a lifetime player. |
I know, right?!! I do my best to hold my tongue, but yea!
I sometimes can't tell what the point of some of these criticisms are...like, let's take this shooting percentage when a defender is 6 feet away. So what are we trying to say? That kobe is bad shooter? That someone else anywhere in the nba is going to do better in that situation? i can't tell. like, show me the top 10 guys for that stat...are we saying we'd rather have him on the team instead of kobe?
at this point, it's almost inconceivable for someone to say that someone is a better shooter that kobe in an overall sense. i personally have not seen a better shooter in my time following the nba. not MJ, not Larry, not ray allen, not reggie. All i can say is that some of those guys may shoot one or two particular types of shots better...like ray allen might be a better 3 point shooter than kobe. but even that, as crazy as it sounds, i wouldn't really say it very confidently. Like, i've seen kobe hit 3s in very difficult situations consistently...i haven't seen the other guys do that. so people say 'well he shouldn't shoot that" and i have no real response to that. i mean, i don't care if he should or shouldn't. i think he's made those shots because he can, and ray allen hasn't made those shots because he can't, so he just won't take them. i think that's all there is to it.
so i don't get it sometimes. i feel people are saying kobe isn't as great a shooter as we think. ok. so are you saying you would rather have xyz player between the years 2000-2015 taking those shots instead of kobe? and who is this magical player that is better? lebron? curry? MJ? lol.
kobe is the most complete overall basketball player i have ever seen. he's mastered everything. furthermore, he has demonstrated his mastery of everything on a lot of plays. the only thing he has not demonstrated is elite level passing. but even lebron, who is praised for his passing, hasn't demonstrated elite level passing. kobe has shown flashes here and there, and that's it. but...when you're scoring ability is the best in history, there isn't much of a need to pass, and a team is not going to be structured to make kobe pass...that's a silly waste of money. if magic could score like kobe and pass like magic, he would not have been magic. he would have been, well, some kind of super-kobe...fewer assists than magic, more points than kobe, more assists maybe than kobe. scoring points is really the best skill, even though we publicly like to encourage the other skills to appear more humanitarian, and call scoring selfish (which has always been insane to me). the team wins by scoring more points, if you are the best at scoring points, you are the best. if you are the best at assists, you are not the best. best at scoring is better than best at assists. or best at rebounding, or best at blocking, etc. if the scoreboard had assists instead of points on it, then things would be different.
why do i feel like i just trolled myself? |
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scoobs Star Player
Joined: 19 Aug 2005 Posts: 4746
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Posted: Sat Aug 08, 2015 12:11 am Post subject: |
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I remember Kobe playing off the ball a lot back in 97-98, when he played with Van Exel. I also remember him doing it in 2004-2005, when Odom was basically the point forward, with Chucky Atkins basically being the SG. Then, he had that string of games a couple years ago when he played with Nash. He was really good in that role, and I think he liked it. I could see him posting up a lot this season and having a career high in three pointers. |
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greenfrog Retired Number
Joined: 02 Jan 2011 Posts: 36081 Location: 502 Bad Gateway
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Posted: Sat Aug 08, 2015 6:57 am Post subject: |
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scoobs wrote: | I remember Kobe playing off the ball a lot back in 97-98, when he played with Van Exel. I also remember him doing it in 2004-2005, when Odom was basically the point forward, with Chucky Atkins basically being the SG. Then, he had that string of games a couple years ago when he played with Nash. He was really good in that role, and I think he liked it. I could see him posting up a lot this season and having a career high in three pointers. |
If this were true MDA would probably still be our coach. IIRC, he said he didn't like standing around waiting for the ball. |
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scoobs Star Player
Joined: 19 Aug 2005 Posts: 4746
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Posted: Sat Aug 08, 2015 9:42 am Post subject: |
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greenfrog wrote: | scoobs wrote: | I remember Kobe playing off the ball a lot back in 97-98, when he played with Van Exel. I also remember him doing it in 2004-2005, when Odom was basically the point forward, with Chucky Atkins basically being the SG. Then, he had that string of games a couple years ago when he played with Nash. He was really good in that role, and I think he liked it. I could see him posting up a lot this season and having a career high in three pointers. |
If this were true MDA would probably still be our coach. IIRC, he said he didn't like standing around waiting for the ball. | I think he would get a good amount of post touches though because he is better at doing that then Randle and Hibbert. That one season you are talking about, he had Pau and Dwight with him. |
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