Byron Scott: Analytics will play a "much" bigger role this coming season
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GoldenThroat
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2015 5:57 pm    Post subject:

The Logo wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
gumby wrote:
I would settle down and ease up on the Luke bandwagon here. It hasn't been that long since people here were making up nicknames for him.

He's young and promising, but how many years has he been in the coaching ranks.

Ah, yeah.... let's let him gain experience first from a better coaching situation before "we start sucking..."

Until then, ownership should keep him on their potential radar. Then in a few years the Lakers can make a play for him if they haven't found a better new school coach.

Bye.


Kerr seemed to do just fine in his first year.

Kerr received an exceptional talented team in his first year. Sure, Mark Jackson couldn't do anything with them but he was a dunce. Kerr does receive a fair amount of credit for convincing everyone to accept their role and is one of the better coaches in the league, but if he received the same team that Fisher had, the criticism would be exactly the same.


Give Kerr Melo, JR Smith, Shumpert, & company without any Triangle directives from Phil, and they would have at least been a competitive team. No one thought the Knicks had a terrible roster before the season. And it's no coincidence that JR Smith & Shumpert began to look like good offensive players again the very second they got traded out of there.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2015 6:47 pm    Post subject:

Chronicle wrote:
Talk is cheap.

He can say all the right things like he did before last season. We'll see what actually ends up being true


Agreed 100%.

Hopefully, he's being truthful.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2015 6:49 pm    Post subject:

LakerFan87 wrote:
Chronicle wrote:
Talk is cheap.

He can say all the right things like he did before last season. We'll see what actually ends up being true


Agreed 100%.

Hopefully, he's being truthful.


Please please
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Drifts
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2015 7:03 pm    Post subject:

lol @ Byron
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2015 7:09 pm    Post subject:

Drifts wrote:
lol @ Byron


Sounds like a man that wants to keep his dream job.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2015 7:42 pm    Post subject:

GoldenThroat wrote:
The Logo wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
gumby wrote:
I would settle down and ease up on the Luke bandwagon here. It hasn't been that long since people here were making up nicknames for him.

He's young and promising, but how many years has he been in the coaching ranks.

Ah, yeah.... let's let him gain experience first from a better coaching situation before "we start sucking..."

Until then, ownership should keep him on their potential radar. Then in a few years the Lakers can make a play for him if they haven't found a better new school coach.

Bye.


Kerr seemed to do just fine in his first year.

Kerr received an exceptional talented team in his first year. Sure, Mark Jackson couldn't do anything with them but he was a dunce. Kerr does receive a fair amount of credit for convincing everyone to accept their role and is one of the better coaches in the league, but if he received the same team that Fisher had, the criticism would be exactly the same.


Give Kerr Melo, JR Smith, Shumpert, & company without any Triangle directives from Phil, and they would have at least been a competitive team. No one thought the Knicks had a terrible roster before the season. And it's no coincidence that JR Smith & Shumpert began to look like good offensive players again the very second they got traded out of there.

True the Knicks did underachieve, but the guys like Smith, Shumpert, and Dalembart quit on that Knicks team after they realized the team wasn't going anywhere. Fisher received a team that was built to compete for a playoff team. It's tough for practically any person to transition from being a player to being a head coach in one year. Kerr was better prepared for that transition than Fisher was because of his experience as a GM.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2015 8:13 pm    Post subject:

Tony Anapolis wrote:
kikanga wrote:
We could run Golden State's offense and Scott would still be the whipping boy here at LG this upcoming season.

When we inevitably don't make the playoffs, he'll be getting the brunt of criticism. Even though we don't have a top 8 roster in our conference.


Why would we want to be like GS offense? Why can't we just make our own team to play to it's own strengths? GS runs the offense they do because of the players they have. I dont think we have similar players to GS really outside of Russell/Curry comparisons. Lou/Barbosa uncomparable, Clarkson/Thompson polar opposites, Kobe/Barnes lmao, Maybe Randle/Green are kind of similar? Hibbert/Bogut?


GS copied much of the Spurs offense without having Duncan. So did Atlanta and Utah. You copy what works in the league, which is having multiple options per set, spreading the floor, lots of player movement and screening, and flowing into secondary pick and rolls. Meanwhile we are mostly borrowing from what Byron ran years ago as a coach and even as a player. I mean you can find half of the sets that we run in this playbook:

http://www.mensbasketballhoopscoop.com/byron-scott-new-jersey-nets-princeton-offense/

Also, to those who said that we weren't running the Princeton sets at the end of the year, we still were. It just wasn't as noticeable with Jordan Hill out there less, and the young PGs calling a lot of PnRs for themselves. The offense still wasn't very good though.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2015 4:48 am    Post subject:

24 wrote:
There is a lot to like about Byron as a coach. The players clearly respect him, and from all accounts he is a clear, direct, and honest communicator with them. He also is at ease with the LA media and the circus that goes with this job. Those are not small things. So he gets a chance to evolve on his weak area. But he has to buy in, not just go along.


I think there's some question about the likelihood of effectiveness of his coaching here. I challenge that there's a history of strong respect developed, with key players especially. I don't care much for his history in terms of communications style with the most talented lead guards (Kidd, CP3) that he'd coached before this job. Not shining success with those guys at all, being better known for constant friction and troubled offenses. If our favorite club's near-term growth is based quite highly on the Clarkson-Russell tandem's development, I'm standing among the yet-to-be-convinced that the Lakers have even an adequate coach for the assignment.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2015 7:46 am    Post subject:

22 wrote:
Lakers new coach hired for the dfenders "Casey Owens" embraces analytics.
http://www.silverscreenandroll.com/2015/8/7/9116041/la-lakers-head-coach-casey-owens-dfenders?utm_campaign=silverscreenandroll&utm_content=article%3Atop&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter#

Writing is on the wall for B Scott


anybody take a gander at this article yet?
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lukewaltonsdad
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2015 7:57 am    Post subject:

22 wrote:
22 wrote:
Lakers new coach hired for the dfenders "Casey Owens" embraces analytics.
http://www.silverscreenandroll.com/2015/8/7/9116041/la-lakers-head-coach-casey-owens-dfenders?utm_campaign=silverscreenandroll&utm_content=article%3Atop&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter#

Writing is on the wall for B Scott


anybody take a gander at this article yet?


Just read it. Thanks, 22. Good read. I liked his answers. Very thoughtful, logical responses. Very experienced, doesn't shy away from analytics but instead embraces them, etc. Seems like a good hire.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2015 8:15 am    Post subject:

No prob LWD
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2015 8:25 am    Post subject:

it feels forced, not natural. you either embraced the tool 100% or don't use it at all. Scott is just delivering lip service and then tell players not to shoot 3s a minute later.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2015 8:33 am    Post subject:

For the TL:DR crowd lol

Quote:
The NBA's focus is beginning to shift to analytics and talent development. What are your thoughts on the use of advanced stats and scouting in the NBA?

"I think it's essential. That's the way the game is growing. The game changes and either you change with it or you get left behind. We didn't have all these stats before. In my opinion I don't think people necessarily turned their nose up at it, but it just wasn't available. You had a box score and basic averages, but with analytics, things like baseball's sabermetrics, and fantasy sports, it's amazing what you can break down.

How you get those stats and relate them, or translate them to in-game situations remains to be seen. But it really helps me in preparation. Seeing what different lineups are good together, efficiency defensively and offensively, it's just amazing how deep you can go into this stuff. I'm all about it, I think it's really cool. I know some people are a little resistant to it -- and to each their own -- but I think it's here to stay. It's not going anywhere, and I think it's a big help to the game.

These are tools. As a coach you're a leader, but you're really teaching. Why would you reject anything that would make you a better teacher? That's how I look at it. Why would you turn anything down that can help you teach these young men, and if you're a teacher, you have to broaden your own horizons. You have to keep getting better. You can't just sit in your chair like some old university professor for 80 years and not change. You have to roll with the flow. This is a fluid, evolving game and its important to stay up with it."

http://www.silverscreenandroll.com/2015/8/7/9116041/la-lakers-head-coach-casey-owens-dfenders?utm_campaign=silverscreenandroll&utm_content=article%3Atop&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter#
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2015 8:58 am    Post subject:

The Logo wrote:
GoldenThroat wrote:
The Logo wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
gumby wrote:
I would settle down and ease up on the Luke bandwagon here. It hasn't been that long since people here were making up nicknames for him.

He's young and promising, but how many years has he been in the coaching ranks.

Ah, yeah.... let's let him gain experience first from a better coaching situation before "we start sucking..."

Until then, ownership should keep him on their potential radar. Then in a few years the Lakers can make a play for him if they haven't found a better new school coach.

Bye.


Kerr seemed to do just fine in his first year.

Kerr received an exceptional talented team in his first year. Sure, Mark Jackson couldn't do anything with them but he was a dunce. Kerr does receive a fair amount of credit for convincing everyone to accept their role and is one of the better coaches in the league, but if he received the same team that Fisher had, the criticism would be exactly the same.


Give Kerr Melo, JR Smith, Shumpert, & company without any Triangle directives from Phil, and they would have at least been a competitive team. No one thought the Knicks had a terrible roster before the season. And it's no coincidence that JR Smith & Shumpert began to look like good offensive players again the very second they got traded out of there.

True the Knicks did underachieve, but the guys like Smith, Shumpert, and Dalembart quit on that Knicks team after they realized the team wasn't going anywhere. Fisher received a team that was built to compete for a playoff team. It's tough for practically any person to transition from being a player to being a head coach in one year. Kerr was better prepared for that transition than Fisher was because of his experience as a GM.


Plus they were forced to play an offense that wasn't a strength for them. One that was good a decade ago with superstar players, but a failure without them.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2015 9:01 am    Post subject:

Quote:

Plus they were forced to play an offense that wasn't a strength for them. One that was good a decade ago with superstar players, but a failure without them.


I disagree. One huge problem is that Carmelo Anthony isn't a facilitator. Kobe Bryant actually was.

On top of that, the Knicks spacing while executing the triangle offense was absolutely poor. Being 1'-2' off the position where 1 player is supposed to be, ruins the spacing for that half of the court. Stoudemire was often out of position.

The shot selection during the triangle offense was also poor. They weren't executing for a better shot. Often, the offense nailed down to an isolation play or a contested perimeter shot. Few are the times when guys would backdoor and convert or get open shots at the rim within the context of the offense.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2015 9:03 am    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
Quote:

Plus they were forced to play an offense that wasn't a strength for them. One that was good a decade ago with superstar players, but a failure without them.


I disagree. One huge problem is that Carmelo Anthony isn't a facilitator. Kobe Bryant actually was.

On top of that, the Knicks spacing while executing the triangle offense was absolutely poor. Being 1'-2' off the position where 1 player is supposed to be, ruins the spacing for that half of the court. Stoudemire was often out of position.

The shot selection during the triangle offense was also poor. They weren't executing for a better shot. Often, the offense nailed down to an isolation play or a contested perimeter shot. Few are the times when guys would backdoor and convert or get open shots at the rim within the context of the offense.


That is why I said it was an offense that wasn't a strength for them.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2015 9:06 am    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
Quote:

Plus they were forced to play an offense that wasn't a strength for them. One that was good a decade ago with superstar players, but a failure without them.


I disagree. One huge problem is that Carmelo Anthony isn't a facilitator. Kobe Bryant actually was.

On top of that, the Knicks spacing while executing the triangle offense was absolutely poor. Being 1'-2' off the position where 1 player is supposed to be, ruins the spacing for that half of the court. Stoudemire was often out of position.

The shot selection during the triangle offense was also poor. They weren't executing for a better shot. Often, the offense nailed down to an isolation play or a contested perimeter shot. Few are the times when guys would backdoor and convert or get open shots at the rim within the context of the offense.


That is why I said it was an offense that wasn't a strength for them.


I think it's more of a player accountability issue. The players choose to execute poorly and it shows on the floor. The offense itself isn't being maximized by the players.

Even worse, Anthony is an old-school isolation player. The problem is, his FG% isn't exactly as great as Adrian Dantley and modern offenses are going away from that style of play.

You would think Anthony would embrace the triangle since it facilitates to what he does best.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2015 12:02 pm    Post subject:

PJ's biggest mistake was signing Mello to that max contract, Mello is not a team player no matter what offense is being played. All this talk about analytics is the key to having a successfully team is overrated, basketball is a sport that when players play as team the game flows, compatible talent makes the team concept flow.

Management puts the players on the floor, if the talent does not match up there is little a coach can do, last season the Lakers had no talent to speak of that matched up, will it be Scotts fault if this years talent does not match up? There is only so much a coach can do if management puts players on the floor that does not match up? It seems like Lakers management is just grabbing at previous NBA talent, leftovers, I hope not, we shall see, I do not want to see a group of players that do not play well together then have the coach blamed again. I hope that the good talent that we do have can play well together!
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2015 1:39 pm    Post subject:

Translation: Byron wants to keep his job. I remember Mattingly had a similar dis-ease with analytics early on but had to adopt a very which fondness for it when the Friedman regime took over. I think Byron had a similar revelation.

At any rate, I'm glad we're at least paying lip service to analytics.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2015 3:47 pm    Post subject:

pjiddy wrote:
Translation: Byron wants to keep his job. I remember Mattingly had a similar dis-ease with analytics early on but had to adopt a very which fondness for it when the Friedman regime took over. I think Byron had a similar revelation.

At any rate, I'm glad we're at least paying lip service to analytics.


Paying attention to analytics certainly can't hurt agree, however, talent wins in the NBA, always has always will.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2015 4:19 pm    Post subject:

Voices wrote:
pjiddy wrote:
Translation: Byron wants to keep his job. I remember Mattingly had a similar dis-ease with analytics early on but had to adopt a very which fondness for it when the Friedman regime took over. I think Byron had a similar revelation.

At any rate, I'm glad we're at least paying lip service to analytics.


Paying attention to analytics certainly can't hurt agree, however, talent wins in the NBA, always has always will.


Analytics help maximize your talent. Of course you need talent to win a title, but you can get the most out of your talent regardless of who you have. That's the pretty much the definition of a coach's job. Remember the conversations we were having about the Warriors a week into the season?
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2015 7:13 pm    Post subject:

Voices wrote:
pjiddy wrote:
Translation: Byron wants to keep his job. I remember Mattingly had a similar dis-ease with analytics early on but had to adopt a very which fondness for it when the Friedman regime took over. I think Byron had a similar revelation.

At any rate, I'm glad we're at least paying lip service to analytics.


Paying attention to analytics certainly can't hurt agree, however, talent wins in the NBA, always has always will.


How do you determine who is talented?
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2015 8:55 pm    Post subject:

SunshineMan89 wrote:
Voices wrote:
pjiddy wrote:
Translation: Byron wants to keep his job. I remember Mattingly had a similar dis-ease with analytics early on but had to adopt a very which fondness for it when the Friedman regime took over. I think Byron had a similar revelation.

At any rate, I'm glad we're at least paying lip service to analytics.


Paying attention to analytics certainly can't hurt agree, however, talent wins in the NBA, always has always will.


How do you determine who is talented?


You watch them play?
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2015 8:57 pm    Post subject:

Voices wrote:
pjiddy wrote:
Translation: Byron wants to keep his job. I remember Mattingly had a similar dis-ease with analytics early on but had to adopt a very which fondness for it when the Friedman regime took over. I think Byron had a similar revelation.

At any rate, I'm glad we're at least paying lip service to analytics.


Paying attention to analytics certainly can't hurt agree, however, talent wins in the NBA, always has always will.


Talent can't hurt, but putting the ball in the hoop and preventing the opponent from doing the same wins in the NBA, always has always will.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2015 7:07 am    Post subject:

Ziggy wrote:
24 wrote:
Ziggy wrote:
The Byron bashing is seriously old and completely ignorant imo. Phil Jackson could not have led last year's team to a better record. Everything Byron said makes complete sense. The numbers don't mean a damn thing without being put into basketball context. If the Lakers lacked that ability with their shoddy analytics department then how was that Byron's fault? People will complain about anything these days. It's just misplaced hate.


I think you're conflating two things. No coach could have made it a winning team, but that doesn't change the fact that Byron's schemes made the team worse than it was. Useful for tanking (and also as an object lesson), but not going forward.


I disagree wholeheartedly. We had 16 different starting lineups last year. It is entirely unreasonable to expect ANY coach to implement his schemes on a team that can't even last 5 games together.
As head coach he could have stuck with a few starting lineups.
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