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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2015 10:11 am Post subject: |
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Shaq? _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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venturalakersfan Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144475 Location: The Gold Coast
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Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2015 10:31 am Post subject: |
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Considering TD wasn't the best player in their last couple of titles, that is who I would go with, Shaq. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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Omar Little Moderator
Joined: 02 May 2005 Posts: 90307 Location: Formerly Known As 24
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Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2015 10:58 am Post subject: |
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I'd go with Duncan in 05. |
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Tony Anapolis Star Player
Joined: 05 Jan 2015 Posts: 3331
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Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2015 10:58 am Post subject: |
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24 wrote: | venturalakersfan wrote: | allyoop wrote: | greenfrog wrote: | Gimme_the_rock wrote: | GoldenThroat wrote: |
Scott aside, at least we finally picked up the shotgun. |
Amen. |
Was any of that on display in the Summer League (yes, you can make a case it's worthless)? Are they still committed to the Princeton offense? Will Kobe still have his blessing to basically do whatever he wants out there? It's all wait and see. |
As long as Kobe has carte blanche to do whatever he wants and as long as B Scott is your coach, I don't see that the Lakers can improve in any way. I think the Lakers should tank again and go after the number one draft pick.
The front office needs to get their their head out of their a**. You don't pick up a guard when there's a franchise big man around. You can always trade for a guard but franchise Centers, they don't come along very often. |
There was? |
FWIW, name the last title won by a team whose best player was a franchise big? |
Duncan/Shaq.
That said I get it. Before those guys it was The Dream. Before that I am not sure? Abdul Jabbar was a franchise big, but Magic was the man.
Also you have to consider, and maybe the question you should of asked is:
How many "franchise bigs" have been the best player and were actually drafted by the team they won with? Duncan/Hakeem. But yes, it is not the norm. |
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kikanga Retired Number
Joined: 15 Sep 2012 Posts: 29381 Location: La La Land
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Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2015 10:59 am Post subject: |
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24 wrote: |
FWIW, name the last title won by a team whose best player was a franchise big? |
Dirk Nowitski's Mavs in 2011. _________________ "Every hurt is a lesson, and every lesson makes you better” |
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Omar Little Moderator
Joined: 02 May 2005 Posts: 90307 Location: Formerly Known As 24
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Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2015 11:02 am Post subject: |
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kikanga wrote: | 24 wrote: |
FWIW, name the last title won by a team whose best player was a franchise big? |
Dirk Nowitski's Mavs in 2011. |
Nowitzki is a decent technical answer, although he certainly didn't play a big man game. Nothing like the type of game the poster we are speaking of is referring to. |
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Tony Anapolis Star Player
Joined: 05 Jan 2015 Posts: 3331
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Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2015 11:02 am Post subject: |
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24 wrote: | I'd go with Duncan in 05. |
I still think Duncan was SA best player in 07, but Tony Parker was the very deserving MVP in those finals. |
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Omar Little Moderator
Joined: 02 May 2005 Posts: 90307 Location: Formerly Known As 24
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Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2015 11:04 am Post subject: |
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Tony Anapolis wrote: | 24 wrote: | I'd go with Duncan in 05. |
I still think Duncan was SA best player in 07, but Tony Parker was the very deserving MVP in those finals. |
The team had already moved away from Duncan's post game at that point and toward pick and roll. He was one of the best players, but the team went where Parker took it. |
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allyoop Starting Rotation
Joined: 24 Oct 2014 Posts: 238
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Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2015 1:42 pm Post subject: |
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24 wrote: | venturalakersfan wrote: | allyoop wrote: | greenfrog wrote: | Gimme_the_rock wrote: | GoldenThroat wrote: |
Scott aside, at least we finally picked up the shotgun. |
Amen. |
Was any of that on display in the Summer League (yes, you can make a case it's worthless)? Are they still committed to the Princeton offense? Will Kobe still have his blessing to basically do whatever he wants out there? It's all wait and see. |
As long as Kobe has carte blanche to do whatever he wants and as long as B Scott is your coach, I don't see that the Lakers can improve in any way. I think the Lakers should tank again and go after the number one draft pick.
The front office needs to get their their head out of their a**. You don't pick up a guard when there's a franchise big man around. You can always trade for a guard but franchise Centers, they don't come along very often. |
There was? |
FWIW, name the last title won by a team whose best player was a franchise big? |
Umm, Spurs with Robinson then with Duncan. Lakers with Shaq Rockets with Olajuwan, Miami with Shaq, Mavericks with Dirk...is that enough? C'mon now |
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Omar Little Moderator
Joined: 02 May 2005 Posts: 90307 Location: Formerly Known As 24
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Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2015 1:45 pm Post subject: |
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allyoop wrote: | 24 wrote: | venturalakersfan wrote: | allyoop wrote: | greenfrog wrote: | Gimme_the_rock wrote: | GoldenThroat wrote: |
Scott aside, at least we finally picked up the shotgun. |
Amen. |
Was any of that on display in the Summer League (yes, you can make a case it's worthless)? Are they still committed to the Princeton offense? Will Kobe still have his blessing to basically do whatever he wants out there? It's all wait and see. |
As long as Kobe has carte blanche to do whatever he wants and as long as B Scott is your coach, I don't see that the Lakers can improve in any way. I think the Lakers should tank again and go after the number one draft pick.
The front office needs to get their their head out of their a**. You don't pick up a guard when there's a franchise big man around. You can always trade for a guard but franchise Centers, they don't come along very often. |
There was? |
FWIW, name the last title won by a team whose best player was a franchise big? |
Umm, Spurs with Robinson then with Duncan. Lakers with Shaq Rockets with Olajuwan, Miami with Shaq, Mavericks with Dirk...is that enough? C'mon now |
Notice how I said last, not ever? Notice how you answered with a lot of guys from the pre illegl defense rules era? Maybe missed the idea? |
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LakersRGolden Star Player
Joined: 13 Jan 2002 Posts: 7925 Location: Lake Forest
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Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2015 2:05 pm Post subject: |
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fiendishoc wrote: | greenfrog wrote: | There's an assumption that because of Byron's statement we'll be shooting far more 3's or less long 2's next year. That's not necessarily the case. It's possible he means defensive analytics. The Grizzles for example have the godfather of advanced stats running their team and year after year put zero emphasis on pace or 3-point shooting. |
There's no indication that even if Byron wanted to raise the number of threes, he would know how to achieve it. We were among the league leaders last year in pull up 3's, 3's after several dribble, 3's after holding the ball in place for several seconds, and contested 3's.
These are the kind you generally don't want to take (unless you seem to be talented at it like Russell), and that any team can get if they really wanted to.
The main benefit of analytics likely will be to cut down on the dumb decisions based on "gut feel", or on "that's the way we've always done it". Baby steps. Start with the crappy clock management and late game foul management and then move on to more important things, like the horrible lineups.. |
Anything that takes a decision out of BS's hands can only be a benefit to the team. We need even more analytics (for now). |
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venturalakersfan Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144475 Location: The Gold Coast
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Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2015 3:33 pm Post subject: |
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24 wrote: | kikanga wrote: | 24 wrote: |
FWIW, name the last title won by a team whose best player was a franchise big? |
Dirk Nowitski's Mavs in 2011. |
Nowitzki is a decent technical answer, although he certainly didn't play a big man game. Nothing like the type of game the poster we are speaking of is referring to. |
Yeah, Dirk is actually a good example of the other side of the coin, playing on the perimeter with 3 point shots. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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venturalakersfan Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144475 Location: The Gold Coast
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Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2015 3:35 pm Post subject: |
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allyoop wrote: | 24 wrote: | venturalakersfan wrote: | allyoop wrote: | greenfrog wrote: | Gimme_the_rock wrote: | GoldenThroat wrote: |
Scott aside, at least we finally picked up the shotgun. |
Amen. |
Was any of that on display in the Summer League (yes, you can make a case it's worthless)? Are they still committed to the Princeton offense? Will Kobe still have his blessing to basically do whatever he wants out there? It's all wait and see. |
As long as Kobe has carte blanche to do whatever he wants and as long as B Scott is your coach, I don't see that the Lakers can improve in any way. I think the Lakers should tank again and go after the number one draft pick.
The front office needs to get their their head out of their a**. You don't pick up a guard when there's a franchise big man around. You can always trade for a guard but franchise Centers, they don't come along very often. |
There was? |
FWIW, name the last title won by a team whose best player was a franchise big? |
Umm, Spurs with Robinson then with Duncan. Lakers with Shaq Rockets with Olajuwan, Miami with Shaq, Mavericks with Dirk...is that enough? C'mon now |
So it has been a decade since a team won by pounding the ball into the middle. I think that was 24's point. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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Tony Anapolis Star Player
Joined: 05 Jan 2015 Posts: 3331
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Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2015 4:32 pm Post subject: |
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venturalakersfan wrote: | allyoop wrote: | 24 wrote: | venturalakersfan wrote: | allyoop wrote: | greenfrog wrote: | Gimme_the_rock wrote: | GoldenThroat wrote: |
Scott aside, at least we finally picked up the shotgun. |
Amen. |
Was any of that on display in the Summer League (yes, you can make a case it's worthless)? Are they still committed to the Princeton offense? Will Kobe still have his blessing to basically do whatever he wants out there? It's all wait and see. |
As long as Kobe has carte blanche to do whatever he wants and as long as B Scott is your coach, I don't see that the Lakers can improve in any way. I think the Lakers should tank again and go after the number one draft pick.
The front office needs to get their their head out of their a**. You don't pick up a guard when there's a franchise big man around. You can always trade for a guard but franchise Centers, they don't come along very often. |
There was? |
FWIW, name the last title won by a team whose best player was a franchise big? |
Umm, Spurs with Robinson then with Duncan. Lakers with Shaq Rockets with Olajuwan, Miami with Shaq, Mavericks with Dirk...is that enough? C'mon now |
So it has been a decade since a team won by pounding the ball into the middle. I think that was 24's point. |
Not even trying to be sarcastic, but what category is the 2009-2010 Lakers fall in. We didnt really pound the ball inside, but I wouldn't say we a three point gunning team either. It was probably Kobe's midrange game that carried us on most nights right? |
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Omar Little Moderator
Joined: 02 May 2005 Posts: 90307 Location: Formerly Known As 24
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Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2015 4:39 pm Post subject: |
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Tony Anapolis wrote: | venturalakersfan wrote: | allyoop wrote: | 24 wrote: | venturalakersfan wrote: | allyoop wrote: | greenfrog wrote: | Gimme_the_rock wrote: | GoldenThroat wrote: |
Scott aside, at least we finally picked up the shotgun. |
Amen. |
Was any of that on display in the Summer League (yes, you can make a case it's worthless)? Are they still committed to the Princeton offense? Will Kobe still have his blessing to basically do whatever he wants out there? It's all wait and see. |
As long as Kobe has carte blanche to do whatever he wants and as long as B Scott is your coach, I don't see that the Lakers can improve in any way. I think the Lakers should tank again and go after the number one draft pick.
The front office needs to get their their head out of their a**. You don't pick up a guard when there's a franchise big man around. You can always trade for a guard but franchise Centers, they don't come along very often. |
There was? |
FWIW, name the last title won by a team whose best player was a franchise big? |
Umm, Spurs with Robinson then with Duncan. Lakers with Shaq Rockets with Olajuwan, Miami with Shaq, Mavericks with Dirk...is that enough? C'mon now |
So it has been a decade since a team won by pounding the ball into the middle. I think that was 24's point. |
Not even trying to be sarcastic, but what category is the 2009-2010 Lakers fall in. We didnt really pound the ball inside, but I wouldn't say we a three point gunning team either. It was probably Kobe's midrange game that carried us on most nights right? |
That wasn't the point. The assertion was made that we passed up a "franchise" (read, post up) big to draft a guard, and the rebuttal is that post lead teams haven't been winning the title for about a decade now. |
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silkwilkes Star Player
Joined: 15 Jul 2002 Posts: 6938 Location: searching for the mojo of Dr. Buss
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Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2015 4:47 pm Post subject: |
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Not to crash the party... But the Odom-Gasol-Bynum-Kobe teams were built around superior size and the matchup problems that created. It was about Kobe + size and skill. Not saying Okafor was a better pick. But stating that the small ball teams have taken all the titles for 10 years is wildly false. In fact, GS is the first small ball team to win a title. |
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silkwilkes Star Player
Joined: 15 Jul 2002 Posts: 6938 Location: searching for the mojo of Dr. Buss
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Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2015 4:50 pm Post subject: |
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That said, the NBA has trended away from the dominant C to the dominant PF... So that part is absolutely undeniable. The last team to win with a dominant C was Miami with Shaq. |
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Omar Little Moderator
Joined: 02 May 2005 Posts: 90307 Location: Formerly Known As 24
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Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2015 5:09 pm Post subject: |
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silkwilkes wrote: | Not to crash the party... But the Odom-Gasol-Bynum-Kobe teams were built around superior size and the matchup problems that created. It was about Kobe + size and skill. Not saying Okafor was a better pick. But stating that the small ball teams have taken all the titles for 10 years is wildly false. In fact, GS is the first small ball team to win a title. |
Again, not about small ball. About building arund a post big. |
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ringfinger Retired Number
Joined: 08 Oct 2013 Posts: 29418
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Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2015 5:27 pm Post subject: |
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There's nothing wrong with strategically building around the right big.
It's not really about big or small imo. It's about having the right kind of player. Sure, it's been a while since a team built around a big has won but that's not an indictment on the strategy. It's an indictment on the quality of big.
If Okafor is the next Duncan, which I don't think he is, then we should have taken him. If not, DLO was the right choice. |
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fiendishoc Star Player
Joined: 23 Jun 2005 Posts: 8488 Location: The (real) short corner
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Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2015 5:43 pm Post subject: |
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Again, look what Mitch said. If there was a franchise big available, we would have taken him. Can't be any clearer what his meaning was. |
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22 Franchise Player
Joined: 05 Apr 2013 Posts: 17064
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Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2015 6:15 pm Post subject: |
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Do people automatically assume "analytics = 3pt shooting small ball teams"?
*sigh* |
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Rugbar Starting Rotation
Joined: 14 Nov 2014 Posts: 203
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Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2015 7:28 pm Post subject: |
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Kobe's usage rate during the first week will be a good gauge of how much BS is listening to Moser. |
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22 Franchise Player
Joined: 05 Apr 2013 Posts: 17064
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Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2015 8:52 pm Post subject: |
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I wonder if the lakers are accounting for analytics in their new practice facility. Wonder if it has sportsvu cams and other player movement/tracking systems |
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yuurin98 Star Player
Joined: 28 Aug 2015 Posts: 1164
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Posted: Fri Sep 04, 2015 8:02 am Post subject: |
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Every championship team has an effective big man tho, Bogut, Duncan, Bosh, Nowitzki, Gasol, Garnett, Shaq... |
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ringfinger Retired Number
Joined: 08 Oct 2013 Posts: 29418
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Posted: Fri Sep 04, 2015 8:04 am Post subject: |
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Rugbar wrote: | Kobe's usage rate during the first week will be a good gauge of how much BS is listening to Moser. |
Ya. Once Kobe hits about 30 mins, you're getting diminishing returns after that. So let's see if he's paying attention. |
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