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Four Decade Bandwagon
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 Posted: Tue Aug 18, 2015 10:43 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | Carlisle? No problem.
Thibs, some problem, but I'd take him over Scott.
Ollie/Lue/Walton would be great. |
I do not necessarily have a problem with any of them either. All have their strengths and weaknesses as a HC. My concern continues to be for the Lakers to pick a path and stay on it for at least a couple of seasons.
If they were to fire Scott today and hire any of those mentioned or a dozen others I would likely be just as agreeable to the move as long as they attempted to stick with them and an overall plan.
I am not supporting Scott because I feel he is an amazing HC. But I admit I do not rate him as low as others seem to. To me, Scott is an average to good HC that has some credibility with the Laker organization.
I am not as excited about any of the others mentioned as some of you. Different styles and strengths and weaknesses but no clear cut HC to take his place.
And be honest Yimoma, pick your absolute favorite replacement. If the Lakers hired him tomorrow there would be a contingent of fans that would be here within the hour posting about the stupid hire and how bad a choice it was because their guy was better.
I put this whole situation in the same category as the argument about Russell over Okafor. There wasn't really a "bad" choice, just a differing opinion of one. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Tue Aug 18, 2015 10:46 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | And be honest Yimoma, pick your absolute favorite replacement. If the Lakers hired him tomorrow there would be a contingent of fans that would be here within the hour posting about the stupid hire and how bad a choice it was because their guy was better.
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Of course, but that's not a fair comparison. This was after one season where the HC said that he blatantly disregarded analytics and eschewed 3 point shooting. Show me the possible candidates who have made such declaratory statements to the public.
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GoldenThroat
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| Posted: Tue Aug 18, 2015 10:56 am Post subject: |
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| fiendishoc wrote: | What makes you think I didn't see it? I watched, rewatched, and posted in depth observations on these boards for the first 60-70 games of the season, on the stagnant offense and on other things. That doesn't mean that I don't find analytics useful. My eyes told me that their ball movement was bad, but it couldn't tell me that it was the worst in the league, because I don't have the time or inclination to watch all 30 teams.
It's also useful as raw evidence for convincing people who don't see, or have a stake in not seeing these problems. Like say, a stubborn head coach who insists on doing things the same way as back 10, 15, 20 years ago. |
There's often a very either/or type of paradigm when discussing analytics. Either analytics are the "end all be all of basketball", or you don't have much use for them. Either you watch the games, or you look at the numbers. Either you understand how men play the sport, or you value what the data tells you. The fact of the matter is that actual NBA coaching staffs and front offices, who are full of all of that knowledge and actually watch the games, ALSO find the data to be very useful.
Analytics, and specifically the SportsVU cameras, are able to provide a degree of specificity that was downright impossible to glean before. |
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Four Decade Bandwagon
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| Posted: Tue Aug 18, 2015 10:58 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | Quote: | And be honest Yimoma, pick your absolute favorite replacement. If the Lakers hired him tomorrow there would be a contingent of fans that would be here within the hour posting about the stupid hire and how bad a choice it was because their guy was better.
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Of course, but that's not a fair comparison. This was after one season where the HC said that he blatantly disregarded analytics and eschewed 3 point shooting. Show me the possible candidates who have made such declaratory statements to the public. |
Completely fair. Scott made mistakes. I understand he is not your cup of tea. Does he get any credit for saying he might use analytics a little this year? Or the use of the 3pt philosophy will increase this year?
But pick any name and the detailed faults and negative opinions would soon follow. Not the same faults as Scott. They all have their own. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Tue Aug 18, 2015 11:08 am Post subject: |
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| Four Decade Bandwagon wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Quote: | And be honest Yimoma, pick your absolute favorite replacement. If the Lakers hired him tomorrow there would be a contingent of fans that would be here within the hour posting about the stupid hire and how bad a choice it was because their guy was better.
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Of course, but that's not a fair comparison. This was after one season where the HC said that he blatantly disregarded analytics and eschewed 3 point shooting. Show me the possible candidates who have made such declaratory statements to the public. |
Completely fair. Scott made mistakes. I understand he is not your cup of tea. Does he get any credit for saying he might use analytics a little this year? Or the use of the 3pt philosophy will increase this year?
But pick any name and the detailed faults and negative opinions would soon follow. Not the same faults as Scott. They all have their own. |
They don't foolishly proclaim to the public about these things as if they're something good to brag about. That's what is disconcerting.
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Lakers_Jester
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| Posted: Tue Aug 18, 2015 11:25 am Post subject: |
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| Chauncey Billups is out there. That dude has not paid any dues as an assistant but for some reason I'd have a lot of confidence if he were a first yr head coach in him figuring out how to make guys win. That guy has leadership and bball iq for days! |
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22
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| Posted: Tue Aug 18, 2015 11:34 am Post subject: |
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| Billups definitely has HC potential |
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Lakers_Jester
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| Posted: Tue Aug 18, 2015 11:42 am Post subject: |
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| Billups would have that experience with rip Hamilton too that could help the dlo clarkson duo. |
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BigGameHames
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| Posted: Tue Aug 18, 2015 12:14 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | Four Decade Bandwagon wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Quote: | And be honest Yimoma, pick your absolute favorite replacement. If the Lakers hired him tomorrow there would be a contingent of fans that would be here within the hour posting about the stupid hire and how bad a choice it was because their guy was better.
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Of course, but that's not a fair comparison. This was after one season where the HC said that he blatantly disregarded analytics and eschewed 3 point shooting. Show me the possible candidates who have made such declaratory statements to the public. |
Completely fair. Scott made mistakes. I understand he is not your cup of tea. Does he get any credit for saying he might use analytics a little this year? Or the use of the 3pt philosophy will increase this year?
But pick any name and the detailed faults and negative opinions would soon follow. Not the same faults as Scott. They all have their own. |
They don't foolishly proclaim to the public about these things as if they're something good to brag about. That's what is disconcerting. |
You're saying a guy needs to be fired because he won't change before you give him a second season to change. If Byron adjusts the offense and uses more analytics next year will you still want him gone? |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Tue Aug 18, 2015 12:15 pm Post subject: |
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Did I say fire him this year?
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Tue Aug 18, 2015 12:17 pm Post subject: |
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| BigGameHames wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Four Decade Bandwagon wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Quote: | And be honest Yimoma, pick your absolute favorite replacement. If the Lakers hired him tomorrow there would be a contingent of fans that would be here within the hour posting about the stupid hire and how bad a choice it was because their guy was better.
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Of course, but that's not a fair comparison. This was after one season where the HC said that he blatantly disregarded analytics and eschewed 3 point shooting. Show me the possible candidates who have made such declaratory statements to the public. |
Completely fair. Scott made mistakes. I understand he is not your cup of tea. Does he get any credit for saying he might use analytics a little this year? Or the use of the 3pt philosophy will increase this year?
But pick any name and the detailed faults and negative opinions would soon follow. Not the same faults as Scott. They all have their own. |
They don't foolishly proclaim to the public about these things as if they're something good to brag about. That's what is disconcerting. |
You're saying a guy needs to be fired because he won't change before you give him a second season to change. If Byron adjusts the offense and uses more analytics next year will you still want him gone? |
You mean if he becomes the opposite of last year's Byron? Sure, he can coach out his final year.
I find it curious that he's all of a sudden "open" to analytics.
Or is the FO telling him to shape up or ship out?
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Last edited by yinoma2001 on Tue Aug 18, 2015 12:20 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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BigGameHames
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| Posted: Tue Aug 18, 2015 12:19 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | Did I say fire him this year? |
It is implied when you talk about who should be the next coach while he is still the coach.
Again, will you still want him gone if he makes the analytical adjustments to his offense next year while still maintaining an old school hard nosed culture? |
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Tue Aug 18, 2015 12:20 pm Post subject: |
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| BigGameHames wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Four Decade Bandwagon wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Quote: | And be honest Yimoma, pick your absolute favorite replacement. If the Lakers hired him tomorrow there would be a contingent of fans that would be here within the hour posting about the stupid hire and how bad a choice it was because their guy was better.
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Of course, but that's not a fair comparison. This was after one season where the HC said that he blatantly disregarded analytics and eschewed 3 point shooting. Show me the possible candidates who have made such declaratory statements to the public. |
Completely fair. Scott made mistakes. I understand he is not your cup of tea. Does he get any credit for saying he might use analytics a little this year? Or the use of the 3pt philosophy will increase this year?
But pick any name and the detailed faults and negative opinions would soon follow. Not the same faults as Scott. They all have their own. |
They don't foolishly proclaim to the public about these things as if they're something good to brag about. That's what is disconcerting. |
You're saying a guy needs to be fired because he won't change before you give him a second season to change. If Byron adjusts the offense and uses more analytics next year will you still want him gone? |
The sure sign of a bad argument is to exaggerate or twist the counter argument. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Tue Aug 18, 2015 12:21 pm Post subject: |
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| BigGameHames wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Did I say fire him this year? |
It is implied when you talk about who should be the next coach while he is still the coach.
Again, will you still want him gone if he makes the analytical adjustments to his offense next year while still maintaining an old school hard nosed culture? |
That's not a logical argument. What makes him Byron Scott is his hard nosed coaching coupled with his publicly stated opposition to the "new NBA."
So in your premise, you are arguing that Scott will turn back on his coaching methodology all in 1 season? I don't see it. He will give it a cursory go at it, but when the going gets tough, he is who he is.
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22
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| Posted: Tue Aug 18, 2015 12:22 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: |
You mean if he becomes the opposite of last year's Byron? Sure, he can coach out his final year.
I find it curious that he's all of a sudden "open" to analytics.
Or is the FO telling him to shape up or ship out? |
With who the FO hired as Dfenders HC, it's clear they are on board with analytics. Byron may very well soon find himself out of his element |
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BigGameHames
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| Posted: Tue Aug 18, 2015 12:27 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Did I say fire him this year? |
It is implied when you talk about who should be the next coach while he is still the coach.
Again, will you still want him gone if he makes the analytical adjustments to his offense next year while still maintaining an old school hard nosed culture? |
That's not a logical argument. What makes him Byron Scott is his hard nosed coaching coupled with his publicly stated opposition to the "new NBA."
So in your premise, you are arguing that Scott will turn back on his coaching methodology all in 1 season? I don't see it. He will give it a cursory go at it, but when the going gets tough, he is who he is. |
That remains to be seen. You are bias against him and refuse to even give him a chance.
And no not completely change his methodology, tweak it to fit the modern NBA. He hasn't been given sufficient time to do that IMO. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Tue Aug 18, 2015 12:34 pm Post subject: |
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| BigGameHames wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Did I say fire him this year? |
It is implied when you talk about who should be the next coach while he is still the coach.
Again, will you still want him gone if he makes the analytical adjustments to his offense next year while still maintaining an old school hard nosed culture? |
That's not a logical argument. What makes him Byron Scott is his hard nosed coaching coupled with his publicly stated opposition to the "new NBA."
So in your premise, you are arguing that Scott will turn back on his coaching methodology all in 1 season? I don't see it. He will give it a cursory go at it, but when the going gets tough, he is who he is. |
That remains to be seen. You are bias against him and refuse to even give him a chance.
And no not completely change his methodology, tweak it to fit the modern NBA. He hasn't been given sufficient time to do that IMO. |
Biased? You just joined LG this year. I stated how much I loved Scott as a Laker and how much I dreaded him being the coach b/c it wouldn't work out for him (but I still respect him as a Laker).
He's in the same boat with guys like Charles Barkley. Barkley isn't changing his views on analytics or the modern NBA.
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BigGameHames
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| Posted: Tue Aug 18, 2015 12:42 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Did I say fire him this year? |
It is implied when you talk about who should be the next coach while he is still the coach.
Again, will you still want him gone if he makes the analytical adjustments to his offense next year while still maintaining an old school hard nosed culture? |
That's not a logical argument. What makes him Byron Scott is his hard nosed coaching coupled with his publicly stated opposition to the "new NBA."
So in your premise, you are arguing that Scott will turn back on his coaching methodology all in 1 season? I don't see it. He will give it a cursory go at it, but when the going gets tough, he is who he is. |
That remains to be seen. You are bias against him and refuse to even give him a chance.
And no not completely change his methodology, tweak it to fit the modern NBA. He hasn't been given sufficient time to do that IMO. |
Biased? You just joined LG this year. I stated how much I loved Scott as a Laker and how much I dreaded him being the coach b/c it wouldn't work out for him (but I still respect him as a Laker).
He's in the same boat with guys like Charles Barkley. Barkley isn't changing his views on analytics or the modern NBA. |
That is a bias statement. Before he even got the chance to coach you didn't think he would succeed. THATS BIAS, as a coach not player.
As far as Barkley he may be behind with analytics but as far as watching a game and knowing what is happening, he is one of the best if not the best on TV. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Tue Aug 18, 2015 12:44 pm Post subject: |
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| BigGameHames wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Did I say fire him this year? |
It is implied when you talk about who should be the next coach while he is still the coach.
Again, will you still want him gone if he makes the analytical adjustments to his offense next year while still maintaining an old school hard nosed culture? |
That's not a logical argument. What makes him Byron Scott is his hard nosed coaching coupled with his publicly stated opposition to the "new NBA."
So in your premise, you are arguing that Scott will turn back on his coaching methodology all in 1 season? I don't see it. He will give it a cursory go at it, but when the going gets tough, he is who he is. |
That remains to be seen. You are bias against him and refuse to even give him a chance.
And no not completely change his methodology, tweak it to fit the modern NBA. He hasn't been given sufficient time to do that IMO. |
Biased? You just joined LG this year. I stated how much I loved Scott as a Laker and how much I dreaded him being the coach b/c it wouldn't work out for him (but I still respect him as a Laker).
He's in the same boat with guys like Charles Barkley. Barkley isn't changing his views on analytics or the modern NBA. |
That is a bias statement. Before he even got the chance to coach you didn't think he would succeed. THATS BIAS, as a coach not player.
As far as Barkley he may be behind with analytics but as far as watching a game and knowing what is happening, he is one of the best if not the best on TV. |
Ok man. We saw how he coached on the Cavs. Yes, he didn't have talent, but we also knew last year's team didn't have talent too. I've watched Byron over the years and I knew this Lakers "dream" job would end up being a placeholder move for him.
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2019
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| Posted: Tue Aug 18, 2015 12:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Lakers_Jester wrote: | | Billups would have that experience with rip Hamilton too that could help the dlo clarkson duo. |
Billups would be an excellent assistant IMO and would help him transition into a HC. |
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BigGameHames
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| Posted: Tue Aug 18, 2015 12:52 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Did I say fire him this year? |
It is implied when you talk about who should be the next coach while he is still the coach.
Again, will you still want him gone if he makes the analytical adjustments to his offense next year while still maintaining an old school hard nosed culture? |
That's not a logical argument. What makes him Byron Scott is his hard nosed coaching coupled with his publicly stated opposition to the "new NBA."
So in your premise, you are arguing that Scott will turn back on his coaching methodology all in 1 season? I don't see it. He will give it a cursory go at it, but when the going gets tough, he is who he is. |
That remains to be seen. You are bias against him and refuse to even give him a chance.
And no not completely change his methodology, tweak it to fit the modern NBA. He hasn't been given sufficient time to do that IMO. |
Biased? You just joined LG this year. I stated how much I loved Scott as a Laker and how much I dreaded him being the coach b/c it wouldn't work out for him (but I still respect him as a Laker).
He's in the same boat with guys like Charles Barkley. Barkley isn't changing his views on analytics or the modern NBA. |
That is a bias statement. Before he even got the chance to coach you didn't think he would succeed. THATS BIAS, as a coach not player.
As far as Barkley he may be behind with analytics but as far as watching a game and knowing what is happening, he is one of the best if not the best on TV. |
Ok man. We saw how he coached on the Cavs. Yes, he didn't have talent, but we also knew last year's team didn't have talent too. I've watched Byron over the years and I knew this Lakers "dream" job would end up being a placeholder move for him. |
That remains to be seen as well. You THINK it will be but next year will decide that. Continuously stating opinion as fact doesn't strengthen your argument. On the cavs he had no talent and lost but he developed a high drafted pg into an all star talent. That is more valuable now to the lakers than any schematics at this point IMO. All reasons why I believe he deserves more of a chance as the Lakers coach. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Tue Aug 18, 2015 12:53 pm Post subject: |
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I'm not making an argument. I AM stating my opinion. 
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greenfrog
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| Posted: Tue Aug 18, 2015 12:55 pm Post subject: |
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| I'm still trying to forget Billups... |
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gus26
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| Posted: Tue Aug 18, 2015 12:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Charles barkley |
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Tue Aug 18, 2015 1:06 pm Post subject: |
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| BigGameHames wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Did I say fire him this year? |
It is implied when you talk about who should be the next coach while he is still the coach.
Again, will you still want him gone if he makes the analytical adjustments to his offense next year while still maintaining an old school hard nosed culture? |
That's not a logical argument. What makes him Byron Scott is his hard nosed coaching coupled with his publicly stated opposition to the "new NBA."
So in your premise, you are arguing that Scott will turn back on his coaching methodology all in 1 season? I don't see it. He will give it a cursory go at it, but when the going gets tough, he is who he is. |
That remains to be seen. You are bias against him and refuse to even give him a chance.
And no not completely change his methodology, tweak it to fit the modern NBA. He hasn't been given sufficient time to do that IMO. |
Biased? You just joined LG this year. I stated how much I loved Scott as a Laker and how much I dreaded him being the coach b/c it wouldn't work out for him (but I still respect him as a Laker).
He's in the same boat with guys like Charles Barkley. Barkley isn't changing his views on analytics or the modern NBA. |
That is a bias statement. Before he even got the chance to coach you didn't think he would succeed. THATS BIAS, as a coach not player.
As far as Barkley he may be behind with analytics but as far as watching a game and knowing what is happening, he is one of the best if not the best on TV. |
1. fyi, The state of having bias is biased not bias.
2. Predicting the likely future of something based on the present isn't a biased position. Nor does it fail to allow for change. |
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