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venturalakersfan
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 Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2015 8:43 am Post subject: |
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| Jim99187 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Jim99187 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | ^ It's not about a 1-on-1 issue. For example, will Kobe chase Gordan Hayward around or ensure that various SFs aren't spotting up in the corner all open?
Most of those guys are also heavier and taller than Kobe, so he'll have to work every night he plays.
It'll be a challenge, but he's played SF before. However, when he knew he was going to do so, he also bulked up (IIRC he was at close to 220 one year when he was playing more SF). He looks very thin right now and is recovering from shoulder surgery. |
half of those guys i wont even guard. who is a known shooter in that 5-30? who is the reggie miller/ray allen? |
I just think the physicality of the SFs who will usually be a few inches and 20-30 pounds heavier on the average will take a toll on Kobe, who is tough and scrappy and will try to step up to the challenge. The body can only take so much though. |
he will be playing only 25-26 mins. also gone are the banging days. its all soft and finesse now. jacking up 3's and running.
other then melo/lebron and leonard to an extent none of them are going to take kobe to post and pound him |
I agree, there is little pounding from the perimeter, the defensive rules pretty much took that out. And while Brown is a rookie, he is an old school rookie with 4 years in college. He is much farther along than someone like Russell or Randle.
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2015 8:44 am Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | Jim99187 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Jim99187 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | ^ It's not about a 1-on-1 issue. For example, will Kobe chase Gordan Hayward around or ensure that various SFs aren't spotting up in the corner all open?
Most of those guys are also heavier and taller than Kobe, so he'll have to work every night he plays.
It'll be a challenge, but he's played SF before. However, when he knew he was going to do so, he also bulked up (IIRC he was at close to 220 one year when he was playing more SF). He looks very thin right now and is recovering from shoulder surgery. |
half of those guys i wont even guard. who is a known shooter in that 5-30? who is the reggie miller/ray allen? |
I just think the physicality of the SFs who will usually be a few inches and 20-30 pounds heavier on the average will take a toll on Kobe, who is tough and scrappy and will try to step up to the challenge. The body can only take so much though. |
he will be playing only 25-26 mins. also gone are the banging days. its all soft and finesse now. jacking up 3's and running.
other then melo/lebron and leonard to an extent none of them are going to take kobe to post and pound him |
I agree, there is little pounding from the perimeter, the defensive rules pretty much took that out. |
Who said perimeter? It's boxing out Kahwai, Lebron, Melo, etc. that will put the pounding on Kobe.
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2015 8:44 am Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | Jim99187 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Jim99187 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | ^ It's not about a 1-on-1 issue. For example, will Kobe chase Gordan Hayward around or ensure that various SFs aren't spotting up in the corner all open?
Most of those guys are also heavier and taller than Kobe, so he'll have to work every night he plays.
It'll be a challenge, but he's played SF before. However, when he knew he was going to do so, he also bulked up (IIRC he was at close to 220 one year when he was playing more SF). He looks very thin right now and is recovering from shoulder surgery. |
half of those guys i wont even guard. who is a known shooter in that 5-30? who is the reggie miller/ray allen? |
I just think the physicality of the SFs who will usually be a few inches and 20-30 pounds heavier on the average will take a toll on Kobe, who is tough and scrappy and will try to step up to the challenge. The body can only take so much though. |
he will be playing only 25-26 mins. also gone are the banging days. its all soft and finesse now. jacking up 3's and running.
other then melo/lebron and leonard to an extent none of them are going to take kobe to post and pound him |
I agree, there is little pounding from the perimeter, the defensive rules pretty much took that out. |
Who said perimeter? It's boxing out Kahwai, Lebron, Melo, etc. that will put the pounding on Kobe.
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2015 8:45 am Post subject: |
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Those guys play on the perimeter, that is why I said perimeter. If they post up, we will cover them with a PF. The most pounding Kobe has to worry about is running the floor.
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2015 8:46 am Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | Those guys play on the perimeter, that is why I said perimeter. If they post up, we will cover them with a PF. The most pounding Kobe has to worry about is running the floor. |
And there is no MWP/Ariza/even Wes Johnson to switch the guy on either. DLO/Clarkson aren't guarding big SFs, and if Randle has to, then Kobe's guarding a PF?
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2015 8:54 am Post subject: |
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There is other options, if the opponent posts up their wing I can see Randle covering him. Or Brown or Nance or other options. If they post up their wing, PF and center, then we win. We need to let go of the paradigm that our SF must guard their SF, our SG much guard their SG, etc.
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2015 8:56 am Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | There is other options, if the opponent posts up their wing I can see Randle covering him. Or Brown or Nance or other options. If they post up their wing, PF and center, then we win. We need to let go of the paradigm that our SF must guard their SF, our SG much guard their SG, etc. |
If as you say, simply running is the most of his worries, guarding guys who will be 2-3 inches bigger and 20-30 pounds heavier each night will be an interesting physical problem.
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kikanga
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| Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2015 8:57 am Post subject: |
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The list of SF's I worry about Kobe trying to guard:
Lebron
Durant
Melo
Kawhi
Paul George
Rudy Gay
The next level of SFs I don't worry about. I think he'll be fine on Harrison Barnes, Parsons, Ariza, Jeff and Gerald Green, DeMarre Carroll, Middleton, Tobias Harris, Batum.
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Last edited by kikanga on Fri Aug 21, 2015 8:59 am; edited 2 times in total |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2015 8:58 am Post subject: |
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| kikanga wrote: | The list of SF's I worry about Kobe trying to guard:
Lebron
Durant
Melo
Kawhi
Paul George
Rudy Gay
The next level of SFs I don't worry about. I think he'll be fine on Parsons, Ariza, Jeff and Gerald Green, DeMarre Carroll, Middleton, Tobias Harris, Batum. |
The other subset of guys who may give problems are guys who will run screens and sit out for 3s. Kobe has a bad penchant for playing free safety against 3 point shooters too.
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2015 9:00 am Post subject: |
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| kikanga wrote: | The list of SF's I worry about Kobe trying to guard:
Lebron
Durant
Melo
Kawhi
Paul George
Rudy Gay
The next level of SFs I don't worry about. I think he'll be fine on Harrison Barnes, Parsons, Ariza, Jeff and Gerald Green, DeMarre Carroll, Middleton, Tobias Harris, Batum. |
Why assume that Kobe will guard those players? This isn't 1970, things are different. I could see Kobe guarding Love or Krispy Pork Fat. If the matchup is too much for him, there are alternatives. But I realize thinking outside the box doesn't work well no a message board.
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lukewaltonsdad
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| Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2015 9:02 am Post subject: |
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| ^Kobe's defense has been a problem for a while now...he's been getting torched, caught roaming, for what seems like an eternity now. He's penciled in at the 3; I don't think he'll play much there as others will soak up the minutes at the position. In fact, I don't see Kobe being much of a factor this season quite frankly. |
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kikanga
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| Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2015 9:14 am Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | The list of SF's I worry about Kobe trying to guard:
Lebron
Durant
Melo
Kawhi
Paul George
Rudy Gay
The next level of SFs I don't worry about. I think he'll be fine on Harrison Barnes, Parsons, Ariza, Jeff and Gerald Green, DeMarre Carroll, Middleton, Tobias Harris, Batum. |
Why assume that Kobe will guard those players? This isn't 1970, things are different. I could see Kobe guarding Love or Krispy Pork Fat. If the matchup is too much for him, there are alternatives. But I realize thinking outside the box doesn't work well no a message board. |
Lol. So in that instance, who's guarding the SF's I mentioned?
Swaggy P? Clarkson? A rookie? 
Also, I think the size and weight difference that comes from Kobe guarding 4's presents new problems. One off the top of my head is helping the helper (Hibbert) and securing defensive rebounds.
I think Kobe should guard the perimeter player on the other team that has the lowest usage %. That is the best strategy IMO. But it will still cause defensive issues. Just less so than any other strategy.
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fiendishoc
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| Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2015 9:18 am Post subject: |
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| Speaking of boxing out, Kobe was doing that anyway last season, telling Wes to close out on shooters while he went to get the defensive board. |
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kikanga
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| Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2015 9:18 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | The list of SF's I worry about Kobe trying to guard:
Lebron
Durant
Melo
Kawhi
Paul George
Rudy Gay
The next level of SFs I don't worry about. I think he'll be fine on Parsons, Ariza, Jeff and Gerald Green, DeMarre Carroll, Middleton, Tobias Harris, Batum. |
The other subset of guys who may give problems are guys who will run screens and sit out for 3s. Kobe has a bad penchant for playing free safety against 3 point shooters too. |
Soo true. He loves playing free safety, but the athleticism needed to get away with that hasn't been there for years.
Hope Randle and Bass keep their head on a swivel so they can switch off in time during off-ball screens
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2015 9:20 am Post subject: |
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| fiendishoc wrote: | | Speaking of boxing out, Kobe was doing that anyway last season, telling Wes to close out on shooters while he went to get the defensive board. |
Defensive floor general. 
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kikanga
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| Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2015 9:22 am Post subject: |
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| fiendishoc wrote: | | Speaking of boxing out, Kobe was doing that anyway last season, telling Wes to close out on shooters while he went to get the defensive board. |
Do you think Kobe boxing out power forwards is ideal? I think he would struggle with that assignment.
I remember Lebron (a physical beast) complaining that he doesn't like banging in the paint over a prolonged season.
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Jim99187
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| Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2015 9:29 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | The list of SF's I worry about Kobe trying to guard:
Lebron
Durant
Melo
Kawhi
Paul George
Rudy Gay
The next level of SFs I don't worry about. I think he'll be fine on Parsons, Ariza, Jeff and Gerald Green, DeMarre Carroll, Middleton, Tobias Harris, Batum. |
The other subset of guys who may give problems are guys who will run screens and sit out for 3s. Kobe has a bad penchant for playing free safety against 3 point shooters too. |
i have posted the list yesterday. other then ur usual suspect who is a dead eye shooter playing 3. |
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fiendishoc
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| Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2015 9:30 am Post subject: |
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| kikanga wrote: | | fiendishoc wrote: | | Speaking of boxing out, Kobe was doing that anyway last season, telling Wes to close out on shooters while he went to get the defensive board. |
Do you think Kobe boxing out power forwards is ideal? I think he would struggle with that assignment.
I remember Lebron (a physical beast) complaining that he doesn't like banging in the paint over a prolonged season. |
No, they shouldn't play him at PF unless against a stretch four who doesn't rebound. |
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Jim99187
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| Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2015 9:31 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | There is other options, if the opponent posts up their wing I can see Randle covering him. Or Brown or Nance or other options. If they post up their wing, PF and center, then we win. We need to let go of the paradigm that our SF must guard their SF, our SG much guard their SG, etc. |
If as you say, simply running is the most of his worries, guarding guys who will be 2-3 inches bigger and 20-30 pounds heavier each night will be an interesting physical problem. |
nba has changed man. there is no more iso plays after plays. its about moving the ball and getting that open shot.
its not like kawahi or parsons are going to take kobe on the block every possession and knock him off dead. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2015 9:34 am Post subject: |
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| Jim99187 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | There is other options, if the opponent posts up their wing I can see Randle covering him. Or Brown or Nance or other options. If they post up their wing, PF and center, then we win. We need to let go of the paradigm that our SF must guard their SF, our SG much guard their SG, etc. |
If as you say, simply running is the most of his worries, guarding guys who will be 2-3 inches bigger and 20-30 pounds heavier each night will be an interesting physical problem. |
nba has changed man. there is no more iso plays after plays. its about moving the ball and getting that open shot.
its not like kawahi or parsons are going to take kobe on the block every possession and knock him off dead. |
Tell Kobe that there are "no more iso plays" 
All I'm saying is that it's like a welterweight boxer fighting a middleweight one. Sure, the skill of the fighter matters, but there's also a reason why there are weight classes. I know Kobe's played SF before, but he was younger (and didn't have as many injuries as he has now) and even gained weight to take the pounding.
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Jim99187
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| Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2015 9:39 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | Jim99187 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | There is other options, if the opponent posts up their wing I can see Randle covering him. Or Brown or Nance or other options. If they post up their wing, PF and center, then we win. We need to let go of the paradigm that our SF must guard their SF, our SG much guard their SG, etc. |
If as you say, simply running is the most of his worries, guarding guys who will be 2-3 inches bigger and 20-30 pounds heavier each night will be an interesting physical problem. |
nba has changed man. there is no more iso plays after plays. its about moving the ball and getting that open shot.
its not like kawahi or parsons are going to take kobe on the block every possession and knock him off dead. |
Tell Kobe that there are "no more iso plays"
All I'm saying is that it's like a welterweight boxer fighting a middleweight one. Sure, the skill of the fighter matters, but there's also a reason why there are weight classes. I know Kobe's played SF before, but he was younger (and didn't have as many injuries as he has now) and even gained weight to take the pounding. |
there is no pounding in the nba today, period. soft weak ass buddy league is nba right now
a 20yr vet and 5 time champion knows his body then u are giving him credit for. he knows what his body can handle and what it cant
last yr the lineup was hill, boozer,wes,kobe and ronnie price. let this sink in for a min.
this yr it will be hibbert, randle, kobe, russell, clarkson. way too many playmakers/shotmakers. he doesnt need to go all iso and he knows that. even if u dont |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2015 9:47 am Post subject: |
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| Jim99187 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Jim99187 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | There is other options, if the opponent posts up their wing I can see Randle covering him. Or Brown or Nance or other options. If they post up their wing, PF and center, then we win. We need to let go of the paradigm that our SF must guard their SF, our SG much guard their SG, etc. |
If as you say, simply running is the most of his worries, guarding guys who will be 2-3 inches bigger and 20-30 pounds heavier each night will be an interesting physical problem. |
nba has changed man. there is no more iso plays after plays. its about moving the ball and getting that open shot.
its not like kawahi or parsons are going to take kobe on the block every possession and knock him off dead. |
Tell Kobe that there are "no more iso plays"
All I'm saying is that it's like a welterweight boxer fighting a middleweight one. Sure, the skill of the fighter matters, but there's also a reason why there are weight classes. I know Kobe's played SF before, but he was younger (and didn't have as many injuries as he has now) and even gained weight to take the pounding. |
there is no pounding in the nba today, period. soft weak ass buddy league is nba right now
a 20yr vet and 5 time champion knows his body then u are giving him credit for. he knows what his body can handle and what it cant
last yr the lineup was hill, boozer,wes,kobe and ronnie price. let this sink in for a min.
this yr it will be hibbert, randle, kobe, russell, clarkson. way too many playmakers/shotmakers. he doesnt need to go all iso and he knows that. even if u dont |
Kobe is Kobe. He's going to put his body through hell no matter what. It is what it is. I don't think many folks here realistically think he will play more than 50-55 games this year (hopefully). He's played 20 years in the league, and 50k minutes plus. He has gone through dozens of injuries. It's taking a toll.
All some of us are saying is that he needs to take it easy. He's a welterweight now fighting with middleweight guys.
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Jim99187
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| Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2015 9:55 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: |
Kobe is Kobe. He's going to put his body through hell no matter what. It is what it is. I don't think many folks here realistically think he will play more than 50-55 games this year (hopefully). He's played 20 years in the league, and 50k minutes plus. He has gone through dozens of injuries. It's taking a toll.
All some of us are saying is that he needs to take it easy. He's a welterweight now fighting with middleweight guys. |
if we were having this conversation after seeing 10 games i would agree. we dont even know what kobe we are going to see, how byron plans to use him with 2 ball handling guards & 1 ball handling PF who can take coast to coast
its too early to make all the assumptions u r making.
Also its unrealistic to think he is going to play 70 games at 30min clip |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2015 9:58 am Post subject: |
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| Jim99187 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: |
Kobe is Kobe. He's going to put his body through hell no matter what. It is what it is. I don't think many folks here realistically think he will play more than 50-55 games this year (hopefully). He's played 20 years in the league, and 50k minutes plus. He has gone through dozens of injuries. It's taking a toll.
All some of us are saying is that he needs to take it easy. He's a welterweight now fighting with middleweight guys. |
if we were having this conversation after seeing 10 games i would agree. we dont even know what kobe we are going to see, how byron plans to use him with 2 ball handling guards
its too early to make all the assumptions u r making.
Also its unrealistic to think he is going to play 70 games at 30min clip |
Of course if you use your standard, we probably have nothing to talk about during the summer then.
But Kobe's slimmed down precisely at the point he's going to be guarding and is guarded by bigger players. Again, it's welterweight vs. middleweight here. Just a physical argument and there are some things that are reasonably extrapolated based on his recent injury history and physical size difference with most other SFs.
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lukewaltonsdad
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| Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2015 10:00 am Post subject: |
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| Jim99187 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: |
Kobe is Kobe. He's going to put his body through hell no matter what. It is what it is. I don't think many folks here realistically think he will play more than 50-55 games this year (hopefully). He's played 20 years in the league, and 50k minutes plus. He has gone through dozens of injuries. It's taking a toll.
All some of us are saying is that he needs to take it easy. He's a welterweight now fighting with middleweight guys. |
if we were having this conversation after seeing 10 games i would agree. we dont even know what kobe we are going to see, how byron plans to use him with 2 ball handling guards
its too early to make all the assumptions u r making.
Also its unrealistic to think he is going to play 70 games at 30min clip |
So, what I would gather is we know he's going to miss time, right? The question is how many games he's going to miss; he'll definitely miss some back-to-backs, some games that Byron deems Kobe 'not up to it' on any particular night, etc.
What does that leave? 62-65 games, in your opinion? I hate to be so negative about Kobe, but I don't honestly think he'll play more than 50 games. The SF position will be by committee and guys like Brown, Nance, Holmes, Randle, will all their shot at playing there at one time or another next season.
Kobe will start the season there, he just won't finish there... |
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