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Jim99187
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 Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2015 10:11 am Post subject: |
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| lukewaltonsdad wrote: | | Jim99187 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: |
Kobe is Kobe. He's going to put his body through hell no matter what. It is what it is. I don't think many folks here realistically think he will play more than 50-55 games this year (hopefully). He's played 20 years in the league, and 50k minutes plus. He has gone through dozens of injuries. It's taking a toll.
All some of us are saying is that he needs to take it easy. He's a welterweight now fighting with middleweight guys. |
if we were having this conversation after seeing 10 games i would agree. we dont even know what kobe we are going to see, how byron plans to use him with 2 ball handling guards
its too early to make all the assumptions u r making.
Also its unrealistic to think he is going to play 70 games at 30min clip |
So, what I would gather is we know he's going to miss time, right? The question is how many games he's going to miss; he'll definitely miss some back-to-backs, some games that Byron deems Kobe 'not up to it' on any particular night, etc.
What does that leave? 62-65 games, in your opinion? I hate to be so negative about Kobe, but I don't honestly think he'll play more than 50 games. The SF position will be by committee and guys like Brown, Nance, Holmes, Randle, will all their shot at playing there at one time or another next season.
Kobe will start the season there, he just won't finish there... |
i never said how many he will play. 62-65 is a lot as well. maybe somewhere around 50 games at 23/25mins per game |
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kikanga
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| Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2015 10:45 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: |
Kobe is Kobe. He's going to put his body through hell no matter what. It is what it is. I don't think many folks here realistically think he will play more than 50-55 games this year (hopefully). He's played 20 years in the league, and 50k minutes plus. He has gone through dozens of injuries. It's taking a toll.
All some of us are saying is that he needs to take it easy. He's a welterweight now fighting with middleweight guys. |
I agree.
When it comes to Kobe this upcoming year, less is more.
Keep the games played and minutes per game low.
And less responsibility on both sides of the ball when he's out there (compared to years past).
Hopefully, he can make it out of this year healthy.
Clarkson has to embrace the role of #1 perimeter defender this year. Lord know Swaggy won't.
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greenfrog
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| Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2015 12:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Just play a zone. |
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2015 1:00 pm Post subject: |
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| greenfrog wrote: | | Just play a zone. |
Doesn't work. |
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greenfrog
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| Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2015 1:07 pm Post subject: |
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| 24 wrote: | | greenfrog wrote: | | Just play a zone. |
Doesn't work. |
Compared to the alternative with this roster? |
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2015 1:49 pm Post subject: |
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| greenfrog wrote: | | 24 wrote: | | greenfrog wrote: | | Just play a zone. |
Doesn't work. |
Compared to the alternative with this roster? |
Yes. Look at the summer league and at last season. Going zone actually made it worse. |
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greenfrog
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| Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2015 1:53 pm Post subject: |
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| 24 wrote: | | greenfrog wrote: | | 24 wrote: | | greenfrog wrote: | | Just play a zone. |
Doesn't work. |
Compared to the alternative with this roster? |
Yes. Look at the summer league and at last season. Going zone actually made it worse. |
Maybe not if you keep Hibbert roaming the middle. |
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2015 1:55 pm Post subject: |
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| greenfrog wrote: | | 24 wrote: | | greenfrog wrote: | | 24 wrote: | | greenfrog wrote: | | Just play a zone. |
Doesn't work. |
Compared to the alternative with this roster? |
Yes. Look at the summer league and at last season. Going zone actually made it worse. |
Maybe not if you keep Hibbert roaming the middle. |
Hibbert will help, it's just that zones don't work at the NBA level for more than occasional use. |
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fiendishoc
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| Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2015 6:50 pm Post subject: |
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| 24 wrote: | | greenfrog wrote: | | 24 wrote: | | greenfrog wrote: | | 24 wrote: | | greenfrog wrote: | | Just play a zone. |
Doesn't work. |
Compared to the alternative with this roster? |
Yes. Look at the summer league and at last season. Going zone actually made it worse. |
Maybe not if you keep Hibbert roaming the middle. |
Hibbert will help, it's just that zones don't work at the NBA level for more than occasional use. |
It was pretty frustrating watching them go to zone last season and then the other team going immediately into their zone offense and scoring. So much for catching offenses off guard. I mean, people don't hire advanced scouts for nothing. Our defensive PPP on those seemed like it would probably be something like 1.5. |
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A Mad Chinaman
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Joined: 07 Apr 2005
Posts: 6142
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| Posted: Sat Aug 22, 2015 2:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Jim99187 wrote: | | lukewaltonsdad wrote: | | Jim99187 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | Kobe is Kobe. He's going to put his body through hell no matter what. It is what it is. I don't think many folks here realistically think he will play more than 50-55 games this year (hopefully). He's played 20 years in the league, and 50k minutes plus. He has gone through dozens of injuries. It's taking a toll.
All some of us are saying is that he needs to take it easy. He's a welterweight now fighting with middleweight guys. |
if we were having this conversation after seeing 10 games i would agree. we dont even know what kobe we are going to see, how byron plans to use him with 2 ball handling guards
its too early to make all the assumptions u r making.
Also its unrealistic to think he is going to play 70 games at 30min clip |
So, what I would gather is we know he's going to miss time, right? The question is how many games he's going to miss; he'll definitely miss some back-to-backs, some games that Byron deems Kobe 'not up to it' on any particular night, etc.
What does that leave? 62-65 games, in your opinion? I hate to be so negative about Kobe, but I don't honestly think he'll play more than 50 games. The SF position will be by committee and guys like Brown, Nance, Holmes, Randle, will all their shot at playing there at one time or another next season.
Kobe will start the season there, he just won't finish there... |
i never said how many he will play. 62-65 is a lot as well. maybe somewhere around 50 games at 23/25mins per game |
It also matters how many "hard minutes" he is playing.
If Clarkson and Russell are taking the many talented WC PGs, hence allowing Kobe to roam, this would be easy minutes
If he is playing PF, he will be taking his opposing number outside of the paint with limited "bump-and-grind" that would also be "easy" movement
If they find another closer (Clarkson, Russell, Randle, Williams and/or Swaggy P?!?!?!), these would be "easy" minutes when Kobe is a decoy - especially against 2nd tier teams. Of course - if the opposing team is the Celtics, Spurs, Cavs, OKC and/or the Clips - Kobe is closing |
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DShotMaker1824
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Joined: 16 Feb 2012
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| Posted: Sat Aug 22, 2015 4:17 pm Post subject: |
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| 24 wrote: | | greenfrog wrote: | | 24 wrote: | | greenfrog wrote: | | 24 wrote: | | greenfrog wrote: | | Just play a zone. |
Doesn't work. |
Compared to the alternative with this roster? |
Yes. Look at the summer league and at last season. Going zone actually made it worse. |
Maybe not if you keep Hibbert roaming the middle. |
Hibbert will help, it's just that zones don't work at the NBA level for more than occasional use. |
Unless you play LeBron.
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DShotMaker1824
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| Posted: Sat Aug 22, 2015 4:21 pm Post subject: |
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| A Mad Chinaman wrote: | | Jim99187 wrote: | | lukewaltonsdad wrote: | | Jim99187 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | Kobe is Kobe. He's going to put his body through hell no matter what. It is what it is. I don't think many folks here realistically think he will play more than 50-55 games this year (hopefully). He's played 20 years in the league, and 50k minutes plus. He has gone through dozens of injuries. It's taking a toll.
All some of us are saying is that he needs to take it easy. He's a welterweight now fighting with middleweight guys. |
if we were having this conversation after seeing 10 games i would agree. we dont even know what kobe we are going to see, how byron plans to use him with 2 ball handling guards
its too early to make all the assumptions u r making.
Also its unrealistic to think he is going to play 70 games at 30min clip |
So, what I would gather is we know he's going to miss time, right? The question is how many games he's going to miss; he'll definitely miss some back-to-backs, some games that Byron deems Kobe 'not up to it' on any particular night, etc.
What does that leave? 62-65 games, in your opinion? I hate to be so negative about Kobe, but I don't honestly think he'll play more than 50 games. The SF position will be by committee and guys like Brown, Nance, Holmes, Randle, will all their shot at playing there at one time or another next season.
Kobe will start the season there, he just won't finish there... |
i never said how many he will play. 62-65 is a lot as well. maybe somewhere around 50 games at 23/25mins per game |
It also matters how many "hard minutes" he is playing.
If Clarkson and Russell are taking the many talented WC PGs, hence allowing Kobe to roam, this would be easy minutes
If he is playing PF, he will be taking his opposing number outside of the paint with limited "bump-and-grind" that would also be "easy" movement
If they find another closer (Clarkson, Russell, Randle, Williams and/or Swaggy P?!?!?!), these would be "easy" minutes when Kobe is a decoy - especially against 2nd tier teams. Of course - if the opposing team is the Celtics, Spurs, Cavs, OKC and/or the Clips - Kobe is closing |
We have 4 potential closers this season.
Kobe, Lou, Clarkson and Swaggy P.
I think Clarkson and Kobe should close most nights with Lou and Swaggy P assisting.
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A Mad Chinaman
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Joined: 07 Apr 2005
Posts: 6142
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| Posted: Sat Aug 22, 2015 5:05 pm Post subject: |
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| diando wrote: | | A Mad Chinaman wrote: | | Jim99187 wrote: | | lukewaltonsdad wrote: | | Jim99187 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | Kobe is Kobe. He's going to put his body through hell no matter what. It is what it is. I don't think many folks here realistically think he will play more than 50-55 games this year (hopefully). He's played 20 years in the league, and 50k minutes plus. He has gone through dozens of injuries. It's taking a toll.
All some of us are saying is that he needs to take it easy. He's a welterweight now fighting with middleweight guys. |
if we were having this conversation after seeing 10 games i would agree. we dont even know what kobe we are going to see, how byron plans to use him with 2 ball handling guards
its too early to make all the assumptions u r making.
Also its unrealistic to think he is going to play 70 games at 30min clip |
So, what I would gather is we know he's going to miss time, right? The question is how many games he's going to miss; he'll definitely miss some back-to-backs, some games that Byron deems Kobe 'not up to it' on any particular night, etc.
What does that leave? 62-65 games, in your opinion? I hate to be so negative about Kobe, but I don't honestly think he'll play more than 50 games. The SF position will be by committee and guys like Brown, Nance, Holmes, Randle, will all their shot at playing there at one time or another next season.
Kobe will start the season there, he just won't finish there... |
i never said how many he will play. 62-65 is a lot as well. maybe somewhere around 50 games at 23/25mins per game |
It also matters how many "hard minutes" he is playing.
If Clarkson and Russell are taking the many talented WC PGs, hence allowing Kobe to roam, this would be easy minutes
If he is playing PF, he will be taking his opposing number outside of the paint with limited "bump-and-grind" that would also be "easy" movement
If they find another closer (Clarkson, Russell, Randle, Williams and/or Swaggy P?!?!?!), these would be "easy" minutes when Kobe is a decoy - especially against 2nd tier teams. Of course - if the opposing team is the Celtics, Spurs, Cavs, OKC and/or the Clips - Kobe is closing |
We have 4 potential closers this season.
Kobe, Lou, Clarkson and Swaggy P.
I think Clarkson and Kobe should close most nights with Lou and Swaggy P assisting. |
Swaggy P is a closer to win games??? |
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Laker's Fan
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Joined: 27 Jun 2002
Posts: 12850
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| Posted: Sat Aug 22, 2015 5:27 pm Post subject: |
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With Russell, Clarkson, Lou and maybe even Young, most of Bryant's minutes probably come at SF. He will be the starter but won't play starter minutes. Also you don't know how many games he will play. Tough for Mitch to plan around that.
Brown and Young give Scott options. LA can go big too with Randle, Holmes or Nance. They have some interesting forward combos actually. As the season progresses Mitch will know more about how the pieces fit. If he can get a perimeter defender like Jeff Green or MKG, that would be a good pairing with Hibbert. |
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gng930
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Joined: 13 Apr 2001
Posts: 11475
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| Posted: Sun Aug 23, 2015 11:23 pm Post subject: |
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I think Kobe will do fine at SF. When he was younger, he used to get posted up all the time. Portland used to give us trouble by posting up either Steve Smith or Scottie Pippen to get him in foul trouble. With Kobe on the bench, they could simply just swarm Shaq and shut down our offense. Kobe adapted to that and it hasn't been a problem since.
We all know Kobe has slowed down so maybe the answer is to have him guard slower players. And by having a slower defender on him, you more easily can run plays for him coming off screens. If they try to put a smaller, faster defender on him, Kobe simply posts him up.
My concern is less about where he is capable of playing and more that we are depending on him to so much at a position where we are thin. Hopefully, Brown is a quick learner. |
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70sdude
Star Player
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Posts: 4567
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| Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2015 4:44 am Post subject: |
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| Voices wrote: | | SF is not a critical position, it can be played by many different players on most rosters. Two's and three's are positions that can be played by scorers that are reasonably good ball handlers with some size. |
Bizarre perspective, "not critical."
Seeing LeBron, Kawhi, Durant, Jimmy Butler and Paul George star for their teams in the role suggests it probably is one of the most critical positions. That's five of the league's top 25 players, each of whom are long, fast, mobile, versatile, two-way players. Every conference finalist last May had a classically-sized and skilled full-time player in the role, even the teams eliminated: D-Carroll (ATL), H-Barnes (GSW). |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2015 5:23 am Post subject: |
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| 70sdude wrote: | | Voices wrote: | | SF is not a critical position, it can be played by many different players on most rosters. Two's and three's are positions that can be played by scorers that are reasonably good ball handlers with some size. |
Bizarre perspective, "not critical."
Seeing LeBron, Kawhi, Durant, Jimmy Butler and Paul George star for their teams in the role suggests it probably is one of the most critical positions. That's five of the league's top 25 players, each of whom are long, fast, mobile, versatile, two-way players. Every conference finalist last May had a classically-sized and skilled full-time player in the role, even the teams eliminated: D-Carroll (ATL), H-Barnes (GSW). |
Arguably last 5 championships since the Lakers have had strong SFs:
Dallas: Marion (played unbelievably well that year, particularly against Lebron in the Finals)
Miami: Lebron
Spurs: Kahwai (MVP)
Warriors: Barnes/Iggy tandem, crucial defense coming from Iggy.
So yeah, at the highest levels, SFs have been quite important recently. I think it's the advantage of most of the top SFs to play both in/out on both sides of the ball that make them so important given their size. Having a 6'7/6'8 player capable of seamlessly shifting between 2-3 positions is quite a tool to have.
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2015 6:41 am Post subject: |
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Just wondering, any word on Carlos Delfino?
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2015 8:02 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | 70sdude wrote: | | Voices wrote: | | SF is not a critical position, it can be played by many different players on most rosters. Two's and three's are positions that can be played by scorers that are reasonably good ball handlers with some size. |
Bizarre perspective, "not critical."
Seeing LeBron, Kawhi, Durant, Jimmy Butler and Paul George star for their teams in the role suggests it probably is one of the most critical positions. That's five of the league's top 25 players, each of whom are long, fast, mobile, versatile, two-way players. Every conference finalist last May had a classically-sized and skilled full-time player in the role, even the teams eliminated: D-Carroll (ATL), H-Barnes (GSW). |
Arguably last 5 championships since the Lakers have had strong SFs:
Dallas: Marion (played unbelievably well that year, particularly against Lebron in the Finals)
Miami: Lebron
Spurs: Kahwai (MVP)
Warriors: Barnes/Iggy tandem, crucial defense coming from Iggy.
So yeah, at the highest levels, SFs have been quite important recently. I think it's the advantage of most of the top SFs to play both in/out on both sides of the ball that make them so important given their size. Having a 6'7/6'8 player capable of seamlessly shifting between 2-3 positions is quite a tool to have. |
Given the way the game has gone, an elite wing defender, preferably one that can guard multiple positions, is second only to a rim protector as a defensive asset IMO. |
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jg77
Starting Rotation
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| Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2015 8:10 am Post subject: |
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| Anyone interested in Austin Daye? |
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Mike@LG
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| Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2015 8:19 am Post subject: |
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Kevin Durant.
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Resident Car Nut.
https://lakersdraft.substack.com/
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2015 8:36 am Post subject: |
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| 24 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | 70sdude wrote: | | Voices wrote: | | SF is not a critical position, it can be played by many different players on most rosters. Two's and three's are positions that can be played by scorers that are reasonably good ball handlers with some size. |
Bizarre perspective, "not critical."
Seeing LeBron, Kawhi, Durant, Jimmy Butler and Paul George star for their teams in the role suggests it probably is one of the most critical positions. That's five of the league's top 25 players, each of whom are long, fast, mobile, versatile, two-way players. Every conference finalist last May had a classically-sized and skilled full-time player in the role, even the teams eliminated: D-Carroll (ATL), H-Barnes (GSW). |
Arguably last 5 championships since the Lakers have had strong SFs:
Dallas: Marion (played unbelievably well that year, particularly against Lebron in the Finals)
Miami: Lebron
Spurs: Kahwai (MVP)
Warriors: Barnes/Iggy tandem, crucial defense coming from Iggy.
So yeah, at the highest levels, SFs have been quite important recently. I think it's the advantage of most of the top SFs to play both in/out on both sides of the ball that make them so important given their size. Having a 6'7/6'8 player capable of seamlessly shifting between 2-3 positions is quite a tool to have. |
Given the way the game has gone, an elite wing defender, preferably one that can guard multiple positions, is second only to a rim protector as a defensive asset IMO. |
Indeed. Which is why I think the Lakers drafted Nance Jr./Brown and are taking a flyer on Jonathan Holmes.
I just don't see them being ready from Day 1 to play major minutes right now.
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2015 8:49 am Post subject: |
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| 70sdude wrote: | | Voices wrote: | | SF is not a critical position, it can be played by many different players on most rosters. Two's and three's are positions that can be played by scorers that are reasonably good ball handlers with some size. |
Bizarre perspective, "not critical."
Seeing LeBron, Kawhi, Durant, Jimmy Butler and Paul George star for their teams in the role suggests it probably is one of the most critical positions. That's five of the league's top 25 players, each of whom are long, fast, mobile, versatile, two-way players. Every conference finalist last May had a classically-sized and skilled full-time player in the role, even the teams eliminated: D-Carroll (ATL), H-Barnes (GSW). |
And where is the rule that those players have to be guarded by our SF? The team is allowed to be much more flexible than that.
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2015 8:51 am Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | 70sdude wrote: | | Voices wrote: | | SF is not a critical position, it can be played by many different players on most rosters. Two's and three's are positions that can be played by scorers that are reasonably good ball handlers with some size. |
Bizarre perspective, "not critical."
Seeing LeBron, Kawhi, Durant, Jimmy Butler and Paul George star for their teams in the role suggests it probably is one of the most critical positions. That's five of the league's top 25 players, each of whom are long, fast, mobile, versatile, two-way players. Every conference finalist last May had a classically-sized and skilled full-time player in the role, even the teams eliminated: D-Carroll (ATL), H-Barnes (GSW). |
And where is the rule that those players have to be guarded by our SF? The team is allowed to be much more flexible than that. |
Well, the issue is that there is an issue. Previously we could throw Wes (bleh), MWP, or Ariza at the team's best perimeter player and SF. Now, it's Kobe. The only "cross match" for physical SFs would be Randle, but then Kobe guards PFs, which may not be ideal physically over a full season.
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Mike@LG
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| Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2015 8:51 am Post subject: |
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I don't think it's a critical position, as opposed to, that's where there's a strong crop of talent.
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