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kikanga
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Location: La La Land
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 Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2015 8:51 am Post subject: |
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| 24 wrote: |
Given the way the game has gone, an elite wing defender, preferably one that can guard multiple positions, is second only to a rim protector as a defensive asset IMO. |
The last two finals MVPs agree with you.
By the way, thats my go-to diss on LBJ. He made Kawhi Leonard and Andre Igoudala finals MVPs.  GOAT!
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70sdude
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Joined: 05 Feb 2009
Posts: 4567
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| Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2015 9:18 am Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | 70sdude wrote: | | Voices wrote: | | SF is not a critical position, it can be played by many different players on most rosters. Two's and three's are positions that can be played by scorers that are reasonably good ball handlers with some size. |
Bizarre perspective, "not critical."
Seeing LeBron, Kawhi, Durant, Jimmy Butler and Paul George star for their teams in the role suggests it probably is one of the most critical positions. That's five of the league's top 25 players, each of whom are long, fast, mobile, versatile, two-way players. Every conference finalist last May had a classically-sized and skilled full-time player in the role, even the teams eliminated: D-Carroll (ATL), H-Barnes (GSW). |
And where is the rule that those players have to be guarded by our SF? The team is allowed to be much more flexible than that. |
Let's not confuse the Laker talent gap at the small forward slot with a presumed level of adequacy. That would require truly flexible players. There's no Tony Allen here.
We don't have a proven asset for the position. I don't see a flexible roster. I see a complete roster gap in terms of handling most of the league's small forwards through the course of a season, certainly the ones who are playing for playoff-bound teams. It's a problem for the team, until a solution steps forward. |
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lukewaltonsdad
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Joined: 09 Jul 2014
Posts: 2983
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| Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2015 9:25 am Post subject: |
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| 70sdude wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | 70sdude wrote: | | Voices wrote: | | SF is not a critical position, it can be played by many different players on most rosters. Two's and three's are positions that can be played by scorers that are reasonably good ball handlers with some size. |
Bizarre perspective, "not critical."
Seeing LeBron, Kawhi, Durant, Jimmy Butler and Paul George star for their teams in the role suggests it probably is one of the most critical positions. That's five of the league's top 25 players, each of whom are long, fast, mobile, versatile, two-way players. Every conference finalist last May had a classically-sized and skilled full-time player in the role, even the teams eliminated: D-Carroll (ATL), H-Barnes (GSW). |
And where is the rule that those players have to be guarded by our SF? The team is allowed to be much more flexible than that. |
Let's not confuse the Laker talent gap at the small forward slot with a presumed level of adequacy. That would require truly flexible players. There's no Tony Allen here.
We don't have a proven asset for the position. I don't see a flexible roster. I see a complete roster gap in terms of handling most of the league's small forwards through the course of a season, certainly the ones who are playing for playoff-bound teams. It's a problem for the team, until a solution steps forward. |
A solution probably won't come forward anytime soon. I would imagine Mitch trying to find an Ariza type SF through the course of the season, but right now, I don't see that possibility happening until later on during the season.
By the way, the last 2 years, we've had Wesley Johnson at SF; while he's long, athletic, can seeming jump out of the gym, he wasn't lighting the world on fire. For now, it will be Kobe, Young, and probably Brown sprinkled in with Nance, Holmes, and even Randle playing spurts at SF...it's not great, but it will have to do. |
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a2j1m
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Joined: 06 May 2013
Posts: 3734
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| Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2015 12:53 pm Post subject: |
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| The lack of defense is sad at the SF - wing. Positions |
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Rivershow
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Joined: 09 Dec 2011
Posts: 6731
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| Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2015 1:23 pm Post subject: |
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Anthony Brown is his name.
But seriously. Kobe will play SF with Nick Young and Anthony Brown backing him up. I want Brown to get good minutes to develop because I like his potential. |
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70sdude
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Joined: 05 Feb 2009
Posts: 4567
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| Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2015 2:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Rivershow wrote: | Anthony Brown is his name.
But seriously. Kobe will play SF with Nick Young and Anthony Brown backing him up. I want Brown to get good minutes to develop because I like his potential. |
It seems you and I both have Anthony Brown pegged for third string. I wonder about his chance for getting "good minutes" (to be on court during stretches of play with the team still having meaningful chances to win.)
If he's getting his minutes plate filled after Kobe and after Nick both (and no one else competing for the role), it seems likely to see:
- A-Brown get only seven or eight minutes per game for mop-up when Kobe and Nick are both healthy (perhaps, say in in 40 games in the season)
- A-Brown to see up to 22 MPG in back up duty when either Kobe or Nick are unavailable for tipoff.
I think Brown's only real chance for meaningful PT beyond what I described is to beat out Nick Young by playing defense. |
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Omar Little
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Joined: 02 May 2005
Posts: 90306
Location: Formerly Known As 24
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| Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2015 2:53 pm Post subject: |
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| 70sdude wrote: | | Rivershow wrote: | Anthony Brown is his name.
But seriously. Kobe will play SF with Nick Young and Anthony Brown backing him up. I want Brown to get good minutes to develop because I like his potential. |
It seems you and I both have Anthony Brown pegged for third string. I wonder about his chance for getting "good minutes" (to be on court during stretches of play with the team still having meaningful chances to win.)
If he's getting his minutes plate filled after Kobe and after Nick both (and no one else competing for the role), it seems likely to see:
- A-Brown get only seven or eight minutes per game for mop-up when Kobe and Nick are both healthy (perhaps, say in in 40 games in the season)
- A-Brown to see up to 22 MPG in back up duty when either Kobe or Nick are unavailable for tipoff.
I think Brown's only real chance for meaningful PT beyond what I described is to beat out Nick Young by playing defense. |
I expect Brown to start out like Clarkson, with a lot of early d league run and very few rotation minutes. |
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gng930
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Joined: 13 Apr 2001
Posts: 11475
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| Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2015 3:37 pm Post subject: |
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| 70sdude wrote: | | Rivershow wrote: | Anthony Brown is his name.
But seriously. Kobe will play SF with Nick Young and Anthony Brown backing him up. I want Brown to get good minutes to develop because I like his potential. |
It seems you and I both have Anthony Brown pegged for third string. I wonder about his chance for getting "good minutes" (to be on court during stretches of play with the team still having meaningful chances to win.)
If he's getting his minutes plate filled after Kobe and after Nick both (and no one else competing for the role), it seems likely to see:
- A-Brown get only seven or eight minutes per game for mop-up when Kobe and Nick are both healthy (perhaps, say in in 40 games in the season)
- A-Brown to see up to 22 MPG in back up duty when either Kobe or Nick are unavailable for tipoff.
I think Brown's only real chance for meaningful PT beyond what I described is to beat out Nick Young by playing defense. |
I think that last one is very likely to happen, especially with Lou able to take over Nick's role as bench scorer. Combined with all those scheduled DNP-CDs for Kobe, Brown will get plenty of PT during the 2nd half of the season. |
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unleasHell
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Joined: 16 Apr 2001
Posts: 11591
Location: Stay Thirsty my Friends
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| Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2015 9:02 pm Post subject: |
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| a2j1m wrote: | | The lack of defense is sad at the SF - wing. Positions |
World Peace knows defense
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“Always remember... Rumors are carried by haters, spread by fools, and accepted by idiots.” |
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LakersRGolden
Star Player
Joined: 13 Jan 2002
Posts: 7922
Location: Lake Forest
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| Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2015 9:57 pm Post subject: |
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| a2j1m wrote: | | The lack of defense is sad at the SF - wing. Positions |
Well, Kobe's gone at the end of the year and we can focus on getting a starting caliber SF. Clarkson and Russell won't be pathetic on D in a couple of years. |
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hoopla
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| Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2015 10:27 pm Post subject: |
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| 24 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | 70sdude wrote: | | Voices wrote: | | SF is not a critical position, it can be played by many different players on most rosters. Two's and three's are positions that can be played by scorers that are reasonably good ball handlers with some size. |
Bizarre perspective, "not critical."
Seeing LeBron, Kawhi, Durant, Jimmy Butler and Paul George star for their teams in the role suggests it probably is one of the most critical positions. That's five of the league's top 25 players, each of whom are long, fast, mobile, versatile, two-way players. Every conference finalist last May had a classically-sized and skilled full-time player in the role, even the teams eliminated: D-Carroll (ATL), H-Barnes (GSW). |
Arguably last 5 championships since the Lakers have had strong SFs:
Dallas: Marion (played unbelievably well that year, particularly against Lebron in the Finals)
Miami: Lebron
Spurs: Kahwai (MVP)
Warriors: Barnes/Iggy tandem, crucial defense coming from Iggy.
So yeah, at the highest levels, SFs have been quite important recently. I think it's the advantage of most of the top SFs to play both in/out on both sides of the ball that make them so important given their size. Having a 6'7/6'8 player capable of seamlessly shifting between 2-3 positions is quite a tool to have. |
Given the way the game has gone, an elite wing defender, preferably one that can guard multiple positions, is second only to a rim protector as a defensive asset IMO. |
doesnt really have anything to do with where the game has gone or how it has changed. think about it. you start naming ring teams from the past and you will name a star SF or at worse a star SG that can move from 1, to 2, to 3 defensively and a 3 that is a good defender.
lakers rings except for the one with glen rice was kobe paired with a defender at SF(fox, ariza, mwp)
boston beat us because pierce and posey could defend. The old lakers Worthy shifting from SF to PF, and coop guarding pg's, sg's, and sf's.
jordan/pippen just plain cheating |
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Shaber
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Joined: 12 Mar 2006
Posts: 3732
Location: The other side
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| Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2015 1:13 am Post subject: |
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| unleasHell wrote: | | a2j1m wrote: | | The lack of defense is sad at the SF - wing. Positions |
World Peace knows defense |
There is a difference between knowing and doing.
These days MWP would only watch opponents blow by him. I don't think he is fast enough now to even wave them good-by.
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Lakers depth chart
PG Johnson / Goodrich
SG Bryant / West / Scott
SF Baylor / Worthy / Cooper
PF Mikkelsen / Hairston / McAdoo / Gasol
C Chamberlain / Abdul-Jabbar / O'Neal / Mikan |
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Four Decade Bandwagon
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Joined: 18 Jul 2014
Posts: 8151
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| Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2015 4:27 am Post subject: |
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I have been clamoring for a defensive SF to be added. I have my doubts MWP is that SF.
Love the idea of signing MWP, just not the reality of the player MWP. He was a shadow of himself his final year in NY. I have concerns the body just can't do what his mind will be telling it to do.
No issues with bringing him into camp to make the attempt and share his knowledge but not anything the Lakers can not get out of if he just can't play anymore. |
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Dave20
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Posts: 11333
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| Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2015 4:44 am Post subject: |
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| I think Brown will get significant playing time this year at SF due to Kobe's minutes and health. |
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yinoma2001
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Posts: 119487
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| Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2015 5:42 am Post subject: |
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| Dave20 wrote: | | I think Brown will get significant playing time this year at SF due to Kobe's minutes and health. |
Define significant. I can see 10-12 mpg if Kobe is healthy. That means some games he plays 18-20 games (say Kobe sits out a back to back) and 8-10 in others for example when Kobe plays.
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venturalakersfan
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Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2015 7:54 am Post subject: |
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| 24 wrote: | | 70sdude wrote: | | Rivershow wrote: | Anthony Brown is his name.
But seriously. Kobe will play SF with Nick Young and Anthony Brown backing him up. I want Brown to get good minutes to develop because I like his potential. |
It seems you and I both have Anthony Brown pegged for third string. I wonder about his chance for getting "good minutes" (to be on court during stretches of play with the team still having meaningful chances to win.)
If he's getting his minutes plate filled after Kobe and after Nick both (and no one else competing for the role), it seems likely to see:
- A-Brown get only seven or eight minutes per game for mop-up when Kobe and Nick are both healthy (perhaps, say in in 40 games in the season)
- A-Brown to see up to 22 MPG in back up duty when either Kobe or Nick are unavailable for tipoff.
I think Brown's only real chance for meaningful PT beyond what I described is to beat out Nick Young by playing defense. |
I expect Brown to start out like Clarkson, with a lot of early d league run and very few rotation minutes. |
And like Clarkson, due to maturity and experience, I expect him to become a solid rotational player mid season.
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RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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A Mad Chinaman
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Joined: 07 Apr 2005
Posts: 6142
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| Posted: Wed Aug 26, 2015 11:00 pm Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | 24 wrote: | | 70sdude wrote: | | Rivershow wrote: | Anthony Brown is his name.
But seriously. Kobe will play SF with Nick Young and Anthony Brown backing him up. I want Brown to get good minutes to develop because I like his potential. |
It seems you and I both have Anthony Brown pegged for third string. I wonder about his chance for getting "good minutes" (to be on court during stretches of play with the team still having meaningful chances to win.)
If he's getting his minutes plate filled after Kobe and after Nick both (and no one else competing for the role), it seems likely to see:
- A-Brown get only seven or eight minutes per game for mop-up when Kobe and Nick are both healthy (perhaps, say in in 40 games in the season)
- A-Brown to see up to 22 MPG in back up duty when either Kobe or Nick are unavailable for tipoff.
I think Brown's only real chance for meaningful PT beyond what I described is to beat out Nick Young by playing defense. |
I expect Brown to start out like Clarkson, with a lot of early d league run and very few rotation minutes. |
And like Clarkson, due to maturity and experience, I expect him to become a solid rotational player mid season. |
These questions will be answered during competition at the team's training camp.
If Swaggy's shot is not falling with a high proficiency, he will have a great seat next to BScott |
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1hu2ren3dui4
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Location: Oak Park
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| Posted: Sat Aug 29, 2015 8:45 pm Post subject: |
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| unleasHell wrote: | | a2j1m wrote: | | The lack of defense is sad at the SF - wing. Positions |
World Peace knows defense |
World peace has become pandas friend.
Nobody excited about Anthony brown? |
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kikanga
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Location: La La Land
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| Posted: Fri Sep 04, 2015 1:22 pm Post subject: |
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I want to see how Randle would do guarding LBJ.
He has the weight to body him effectively.
Does Randle have the potential to guard small forwards (eventually)?
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"Every hurt is a lesson, and every lesson makes you better” |
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Omar Little
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Location: Formerly Known As 24
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| Posted: Fri Sep 04, 2015 3:39 pm Post subject: |
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| kikanga wrote: | I want to see how Randle would do guarding LBJ.
He has the weight to body him effectively.
Does Randle have the potential to guard small forwards (eventually)? |
Yup. |
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ocho
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| Posted: Fri Sep 04, 2015 3:44 pm Post subject: |
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| kikanga wrote: | I want to see how Randle would do guarding LBJ.
He has the weight to body him effectively.
Does Randle have the potential to guard small forwards (eventually)? |
Eventually yes. But he'll have to become a defender. He isn't much of one now. But the tools are there. |
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yuurin98
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Joined: 28 Aug 2015
Posts: 1164
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| Posted: Fri Sep 04, 2015 6:25 pm Post subject: |
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| I see Young playing SG for some time and A.Brown could back up Kobe. |
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A Mad Chinaman
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Joined: 07 Apr 2005
Posts: 6142
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| Posted: Sat Sep 05, 2015 10:44 pm Post subject: |
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| yuurin98 wrote: | | I see Young playing SG for some time and A.Brown could back up Kobe. |
If Swaggy doesn't make baskets or move the ball, he is a liability that is unless on the floor.
The worse thing is that he will be a bad role model for the rookies
For those who argue that Swaggy is another version of the Black Mamba totally forgets that Kobe has a well-rounded game while consistently producing under pressure |
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yuurin98
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| Posted: Sun Sep 06, 2015 4:28 am Post subject: |
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| I think he will play a little bit better for the sake of not being traded. |
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44
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| Posted: Sun Sep 06, 2015 7:24 am Post subject: |
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| 24 wrote: | | 70sdude wrote: | | Rivershow wrote: | Anthony Brown is his name.
But seriously. Kobe will play SF with Nick Young and Anthony Brown backing him up. I want Brown to get good minutes to develop because I like his potential. |
It seems you and I both have Anthony Brown pegged for third string. I wonder about his chance for getting "good minutes" (to be on court during stretches of play with the team still having meaningful chances to win.)
If he's getting his minutes plate filled after Kobe and after Nick both (and no one else competing for the role), it seems likely to see:
- A-Brown get only seven or eight minutes per game for mop-up when Kobe and Nick are both healthy (perhaps, say in in 40 games in the season)
- A-Brown to see up to 22 MPG in back up duty when either Kobe or Nick are unavailable for tipoff.
I think Brown's only real chance for meaningful PT beyond what I described is to beat out Nick Young by playing defense. |
I expect Brown to start out like Clarkson, with a lot of early d league run and very few rotation minutes. |
You could be right but I'm really not so sure, when it comes to a number two pick versus a number forty-six pick maybe the number two pick will be getting far less minutes in the D-League. And as far as minutes in the games, I'm going to predict that he will be getting far more minutes compared to Clarkson as well if for no other reason than the expectations for Brown will be so much higher than they were for Clarkson in the first place. |
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