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greenfrog
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 Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2015 3:38 pm Post subject: |
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| JerryMagicKobe wrote: | | wolfpaclaker wrote: | My only concern would be the continued flawed logic - and belief that they hired and have hired great coaches. No one who saw the Lakers the last 4 years thinks they had a great head coach. In particular Mike Brown, is not a great coach. Cle wised up and fired him for Blatt, and made way for LBJ to come to town. Byron Scott at best, very best, was a decent coach 7-8 years ago. His sets were really poor most of last season. The young guys hated his O in the summer league.
I think Jim's trying his best, and should give interviews. As should Jeannie. However his opinion on coaching has always been flawed, dating back to when he would question why our head coach didn't call more time outs. |
I wouldn't get too hung up on the "great coach" thing.
Jim was being being more gracious than ernest, which seems like the best course of action after firing a coach. |
In the same context of those comments, he also stated they've "righted the ship" with a coach and an offense straight out of the Pleistocene era, and that just produced their worst season in franchise history. I give Emplay credit for not slapping him upside the head after that.
Here's a question I would liked to have seen asked: Which do you think is a better offense for D'Angelo Russell, Byron's or Mike D'antoni's?
Pincus grilling him on Kobe was great. Apparently he has free reign to stink it up and play forever from two owners now.
Last edited by greenfrog on Fri Aug 28, 2015 3:52 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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KindCrippler2000
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| Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2015 3:48 pm Post subject: |
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On what the summer league means:
| Jimmy wrote: | "None," he laughed. "Basically none. Summer league is the first time they get to meet, there's guys trying out. There's limited time.
"What we're trying to do in summer league is not to see how good Russell is, but to find that 14th or 15th guy [for the regular-season roster]." |
At least he knows what's up, and Michael Frazier was that guy. |
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JerryMagicKobe
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| Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2015 3:54 pm Post subject: |
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| greenfrog wrote: | | JerryMagicKobe wrote: | | wolfpaclaker wrote: | My only concern would be the continued flawed logic - and belief that they hired and have hired great coaches. No one who saw the Lakers the last 4 years thinks they had a great head coach. In particular Mike Brown, is not a great coach. Cle wised up and fired him for Blatt, and made way for LBJ to come to town. Byron Scott at best, very best, was a decent coach 7-8 years ago. His sets were really poor most of last season. The young guys hated his O in the summer league.
I think Jim's trying his best, and should give interviews. As should Jeannie. However his opinion on coaching has always been flawed, dating back to when he would question why our head coach didn't call more time outs. |
I wouldn't get too hung up on the "great coach" thing.
Jim was being being more gracious than ernest, which seems like the best course of action after firing a coach. |
In the same context of those comments, he also stated they've "righted the ship" with a coach and an offense straight out of the Pleistocene era, and that just produced their worst season in franchise history. I give Emplay credit for not slapping him upside the head after that. |
Most realize that elite FAs won't come to a rebuilding team because they want to win now. Elite coaches are no different.
Rebuilding takes time, and having a no-nonsense coach who can command the respect of Kobe and the team and keep them playing hard no matter how many games they lose is a decent placeholder until they can land the coach they really want. |
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Omar Little
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Location: Formerly Known As 24
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| Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2015 3:54 pm Post subject: |
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| greenfrog wrote: | | JerryMagicKobe wrote: | | wolfpaclaker wrote: | My only concern would be the continued flawed logic - and belief that they hired and have hired great coaches. No one who saw the Lakers the last 4 years thinks they had a great head coach. In particular Mike Brown, is not a great coach. Cle wised up and fired him for Blatt, and made way for LBJ to come to town. Byron Scott at best, very best, was a decent coach 7-8 years ago. His sets were really poor most of last season. The young guys hated his O in the summer league.
I think Jim's trying his best, and should give interviews. As should Jeannie. However his opinion on coaching has always been flawed, dating back to when he would question why our head coach didn't call more time outs. |
I wouldn't get too hung up on the "great coach" thing.
Jim was being being more gracious than ernest, which seems like the best course of action after firing a coach. |
In the same context of those comments, he also stated they've "righted the ship" with a coach and an offense straight out of the Pleistocene era, and that just produced their worst season in franchise history. I give Emplay credit for not slapping him upside the head after that.
Here's a question I would liked to have seen asked: Which do you think is a better offense for D'Angelo Russell, Byron's or Mike D'antoni's?
Pincus grilling him on Kobe was great. Apparently he has free reign to stink it up and play forever from two owners now. |
You might have missed the part where he talks about Kobe deciding to fit into whatever role they have for him... |
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greenfrog
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| Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2015 3:56 pm Post subject: |
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| 24 wrote: | | greenfrog wrote: | | JerryMagicKobe wrote: | | wolfpaclaker wrote: | My only concern would be the continued flawed logic - and belief that they hired and have hired great coaches. No one who saw the Lakers the last 4 years thinks they had a great head coach. In particular Mike Brown, is not a great coach. Cle wised up and fired him for Blatt, and made way for LBJ to come to town. Byron Scott at best, very best, was a decent coach 7-8 years ago. His sets were really poor most of last season. The young guys hated his O in the summer league.
I think Jim's trying his best, and should give interviews. As should Jeannie. However his opinion on coaching has always been flawed, dating back to when he would question why our head coach didn't call more time outs. |
I wouldn't get too hung up on the "great coach" thing.
Jim was being being more gracious than ernest, which seems like the best course of action after firing a coach. |
In the same context of those comments, he also stated they've "righted the ship" with a coach and an offense straight out of the Pleistocene era, and that just produced their worst season in franchise history. I give Emplay credit for not slapping him upside the head after that.
Here's a question I would liked to have seen asked: Which do you think is a better offense for D'Angelo Russell, Byron's or Mike D'antoni's?
Pincus grilling him on Kobe was great. Apparently he has free reign to stink it up and play forever from two owners now. |
You might have missed the part where he talks about Kobe deciding to fit into whatever role they have for him... |
Except he also says: "I'm not going to sit there and say, 'This is it, Kobe, you're done,' because it's not my decision, it's his decision.""
I would like to know what the official "role" they explained to him was last season, if any, and is the new role to play off the ball?
Last edited by greenfrog on Fri Aug 28, 2015 3:59 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2015 3:59 pm Post subject: |
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| greenfrog wrote: | | 24 wrote: | | greenfrog wrote: | | JerryMagicKobe wrote: | | wolfpaclaker wrote: | My only concern would be the continued flawed logic - and belief that they hired and have hired great coaches. No one who saw the Lakers the last 4 years thinks they had a great head coach. In particular Mike Brown, is not a great coach. Cle wised up and fired him for Blatt, and made way for LBJ to come to town. Byron Scott at best, very best, was a decent coach 7-8 years ago. His sets were really poor most of last season. The young guys hated his O in the summer league.
I think Jim's trying his best, and should give interviews. As should Jeannie. However his opinion on coaching has always been flawed, dating back to when he would question why our head coach didn't call more time outs. |
I wouldn't get too hung up on the "great coach" thing.
Jim was being being more gracious than ernest, which seems like the best course of action after firing a coach. |
In the same context of those comments, he also stated they've "righted the ship" with a coach and an offense straight out of the Pleistocene era, and that just produced their worst season in franchise history. I give Emplay credit for not slapping him upside the head after that.
Here's a question I would liked to have seen asked: Which do you think is a better offense for D'Angelo Russell, Byron's or Mike D'antoni's?
Pincus grilling him on Kobe was great. Apparently he has free reign to stink it up and play forever from two owners now. |
You might have missed the part where he talks about Kobe deciding to fit into whatever role they have for him... |
Except he also says: "I'm not going to sit there and say, 'This is it, Kobe, you're done,' because it's not my decision, it's his decision.""
I would like to know what the official "role" they explained to him was last season, if any. |
You're conflating three different things:
1. He can come back if he wants to.
2. He would have to accept the role they assigned him.
3. His role last year would be different than his role next year might be. |
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greenfrog
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| Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2015 4:01 pm Post subject: |
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| 24 wrote: | | greenfrog wrote: | | 24 wrote: | | greenfrog wrote: | | JerryMagicKobe wrote: | | wolfpaclaker wrote: | My only concern would be the continued flawed logic - and belief that they hired and have hired great coaches. No one who saw the Lakers the last 4 years thinks they had a great head coach. In particular Mike Brown, is not a great coach. Cle wised up and fired him for Blatt, and made way for LBJ to come to town. Byron Scott at best, very best, was a decent coach 7-8 years ago. His sets were really poor most of last season. The young guys hated his O in the summer league.
I think Jim's trying his best, and should give interviews. As should Jeannie. However his opinion on coaching has always been flawed, dating back to when he would question why our head coach didn't call more time outs. |
I wouldn't get too hung up on the "great coach" thing.
Jim was being being more gracious than ernest, which seems like the best course of action after firing a coach. |
In the same context of those comments, he also stated they've "righted the ship" with a coach and an offense straight out of the Pleistocene era, and that just produced their worst season in franchise history. I give Emplay credit for not slapping him upside the head after that.
Here's a question I would liked to have seen asked: Which do you think is a better offense for D'Angelo Russell, Byron's or Mike D'antoni's?
Pincus grilling him on Kobe was great. Apparently he has free reign to stink it up and play forever from two owners now. |
You might have missed the part where he talks about Kobe deciding to fit into whatever role they have for him... |
Except he also says: "I'm not going to sit there and say, 'This is it, Kobe, you're done,' because it's not my decision, it's his decision.""
I would like to know what the official "role" they explained to him was last season, if any. |
You're conflating three different things:
1. He can come back if he wants to.
2. He would have to accept the role they assigned him.
3. His role last year would be different than his role next year might be. |
4 things. I want to know what his role is this year. |
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2015 4:02 pm Post subject: |
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| greenfrog wrote: | | 24 wrote: | | greenfrog wrote: | | 24 wrote: | | greenfrog wrote: | | JerryMagicKobe wrote: | | wolfpaclaker wrote: | My only concern would be the continued flawed logic - and belief that they hired and have hired great coaches. No one who saw the Lakers the last 4 years thinks they had a great head coach. In particular Mike Brown, is not a great coach. Cle wised up and fired him for Blatt, and made way for LBJ to come to town. Byron Scott at best, very best, was a decent coach 7-8 years ago. His sets were really poor most of last season. The young guys hated his O in the summer league.
I think Jim's trying his best, and should give interviews. As should Jeannie. However his opinion on coaching has always been flawed, dating back to when he would question why our head coach didn't call more time outs. |
I wouldn't get too hung up on the "great coach" thing.
Jim was being being more gracious than ernest, which seems like the best course of action after firing a coach. |
In the same context of those comments, he also stated they've "righted the ship" with a coach and an offense straight out of the Pleistocene era, and that just produced their worst season in franchise history. I give Emplay credit for not slapping him upside the head after that.
Here's a question I would liked to have seen asked: Which do you think is a better offense for D'Angelo Russell, Byron's or Mike D'antoni's?
Pincus grilling him on Kobe was great. Apparently he has free reign to stink it up and play forever from two owners now. |
You might have missed the part where he talks about Kobe deciding to fit into whatever role they have for him... |
Except he also says: "I'm not going to sit there and say, 'This is it, Kobe, you're done,' because it's not my decision, it's his decision.""
I would like to know what the official "role" they explained to him was last season, if any. |
You're conflating three different things:
1. He can come back if he wants to.
2. He would have to accept the role they assigned him.
3. His role last year would be different than his role next year might be. |
4 things. I want to know what his role is this year. |
No, that would be an addition, not a conflation... |
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greenfrog
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| Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2015 4:06 pm Post subject: |
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| So if he's if not less ball dominant he's gone after this season. Great, I'm glad you cleared that up. |
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2015 4:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Hard to reach clarity when the object is anything but clarity. |
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22
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| Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2015 4:12 pm Post subject: |
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| 24 wrote: | | Hard to reach clarity when the object is anything but clarity. |
welcome to a discussion with greefrog  |
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greenfrog
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| Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2015 4:12 pm Post subject: |
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| 24 wrote: | | Hard to reach clarity when the object is anything but clarity. |
The truth is he said two completely contradictory things. My visceral reaction was to the one I thought was most likely to be the truth. You were right to correct me. |
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greenfrog
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| Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2015 4:18 pm Post subject: |
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| 22 wrote: | | 24 wrote: | | Hard to reach clarity when the object is anything but clarity. |
welcome to a discussion with greefrog |
I believe he meant Jim with that comment, but if not it's fine. I can take an insult. |
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deal
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| Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2015 5:09 pm Post subject: |
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Sounds lime Kobe is not certain what he wants to do and Jim is leaving that for open... Does not look like a big deal.
This coming season looks like Kobe will play SG and SF....
Again, the entire team needs to get to camp before any real decisions are made in stone, I would guess...
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Lakers need to build a freaking team ! |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2015 5:12 pm Post subject: |
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| 24 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | 22 wrote: | I wish I had this article handy when myself and several others were being ridiculed late in the season last year. All the talk about "Lakers have historically built this way...they won't wait on a young core to develop...etc blah blah blah".
I said it then and I'll say it again. If you look at all the factors (CBA, Superstar FA's available, etc) the smartest thing to do has been to keep our young talent and add pieces to them that fit ala GSW. That way when your team is ready to contend they will have ridiculous depth and a long contention window.
With what was said here, I have a lot of confidence in Jim. |
Sure but the blueprint has been consistent. Go for whoever is the "marquee" players every summer. We've just been rejected. |
That's a pretty simplistic reduction, saying nothing of drafting, trying out players with upside, not getting bogged down into spending the free agent money on mediocre players, and keeping the flexibility open while trying to get the team to the point where guys start saying yes. |
Of course it is.
there's a reason why we got such high draft picks. I doubt we purposely set out each season to be one of the worst teams. We missed out on big names and punted cap space. Then we sucked and got another draft pick.
This summer we won't have the benefit of a high draft pick most likely.
The part about the top guys saying yes is tougher than we thought.
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From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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LakerLanny
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| Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2015 5:13 pm Post subject: |
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I am actually OK with the Lakers keeping Kobe around if he is willing to take a reduced role and a reasonable salary. I have reservations that he would accept either and I very much doubt both happen.
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wolfpaclaker
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| Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2015 5:14 pm Post subject: |
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| JerryMagicKobe wrote: | | wolfpaclaker wrote: | My only concern would be the continued flawed logic - and belief that they hired and have hired great coaches. No one who saw the Lakers the last 4 years thinks they had a great head coach. In particular Mike Brown, is not a great coach. Cle wised up and fired him for Blatt, and made way for LBJ to come to town. Byron Scott at best, very best, was a decent coach 7-8 years ago. His sets were really poor most of last season. The young guys hated his O in the summer league.
I think Jim's trying his best, and should give interviews. As should Jeannie. However his opinion on coaching has always been flawed, dating back to when he would question why our head coach didn't call more time outs. |
I wouldn't get too hung up on the "great coach" thing.
Jim was being being more gracious than ernest, which seems like the best course of action after firing a coach. |
Disagree. He made similar remarks about them when he hired them. And there's be a consistent theme in hiring coaches who do not work out. Dating back to Rudy T. Jim may well prove to be just as good at many things as an owner, but the one consistent blemish will be his coaching hires. He's not showing any kind of learning curve either, considering it seems they just go merry go round with tried and tested failures like Byron Scott. |
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kikanga
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| Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2015 5:19 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | 24 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | 22 wrote: | I wish I had this article handy when myself and several others were being ridiculed late in the season last year. All the talk about "Lakers have historically built this way...they won't wait on a young core to develop...etc blah blah blah".
I said it then and I'll say it again. If you look at all the factors (CBA, Superstar FA's available, etc) the smartest thing to do has been to keep our young talent and add pieces to them that fit ala GSW. That way when your team is ready to contend they will have ridiculous depth and a long contention window.
With what was said here, I have a lot of confidence in Jim. |
Sure but the blueprint has been consistent. Go for whoever is the "marquee" players every summer. We've just been rejected. |
That's a pretty simplistic reduction, saying nothing of drafting, trying out players with upside, not getting bogged down into spending the free agent money on mediocre players, and keeping the flexibility open while trying to get the team to the point where guys start saying yes. |
Of course it is.
there's a reason why we got such high draft picks. I doubt we purposely set out each season to be one of the worst teams. We missed out on big names and punted cap space. Then we sucked and got another draft pick.
This summer we won't have the benefit of a high draft pick most likely.
The part about the top guys saying yes is tougher than we thought. |
I agree.
Cap flexibility and young assets come 2nd.
All star talent on the roster is always the goal.
With the current CBA by the time all stars want to leave the team that drafted them (5+ years into their career), they aren't interested in a rebuilding project (2-3 years like Jim said).
On top of that, we offer the star FA less $ than most options. Due to CA state tax.
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"Every hurt is a lesson, and every lesson makes you better”
Last edited by kikanga on Fri Aug 28, 2015 10:43 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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KBH
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| Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2015 5:24 pm Post subject: |
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| 24 wrote: | More from the interview on Eric's blog:
LINK |
Not sure what to make of this propaganda. I have good information from several LG posters that Jim Buss is a do-nothing bum. |
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LAKERMIKE2
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Joined: 26 Oct 2005
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| Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2015 5:58 pm Post subject: It's his decision? |
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http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nba-ball-dont-lie/jim-buss-on-kobe-bryant-playing-past-2016---it-s-his-decision-220932600.html?soc_src=mail&soc_trk=ma
You have got to be kidding me!!!
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My Laker squad.
Mr. Clutch, Nixon, Eddie, Nick, Magic, Kareem,
Silk, Cooper, AC, Worthy, Horry, Shaq, Kobe.
HC: Riley |
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greenfrog
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| Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2015 5:58 pm Post subject: |
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| deal wrote: | Sounds lime Kobe is not certain what he wants to do and Jim is leaving that for open... Does not look like a big deal.
This coming season looks like Kobe will play SG and SF....
Again, the entire team needs to get to camp before any real decisions are made in stone, I would guess... |
These positional distinctions don't mean a lot of when you've been at the level and have had the success Kobe has. Try explaining what position Lebron plays... |
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greenfrog
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| Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2015 6:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | "I could care less if Mitch gets all the credit for it, he's the GM. He's the center point. When it came to blame, you'd think it'd be the same kind of thing but people look at me as kind of a privileged kid."
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... it's couldn't care less, Jim. |
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Yumyumcha
Starting Rotation
Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 751
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| Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2015 6:12 pm Post subject: |
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| wolfpaclaker wrote: | | JerryMagicKobe wrote: | | wolfpaclaker wrote: | My only concern would be the continued flawed logic - and belief that they hired and have hired great coaches. No one who saw the Lakers the last 4 years thinks they had a great head coach. In particular Mike Brown, is not a great coach. Cle wised up and fired him for Blatt, and made way for LBJ to come to town. Byron Scott at best, very best, was a decent coach 7-8 years ago. His sets were really poor most of last season. The young guys hated his O in the summer league.
I think Jim's trying his best, and should give interviews. As should Jeannie. However his opinion on coaching has always been flawed, dating back to when he would question why our head coach didn't call more time outs. |
I wouldn't get too hung up on the "great coach" thing.
Jim was being being more gracious than ernest, which seems like the best course of action after firing a coach. |
Disagree. He made similar remarks about them when he hired them. And there's be a consistent theme in hiring coaches who do not work out. Dating back to Rudy T. Jim may well prove to be just as good at many things as an owner, but the one consistent blemish will be his coaching hires. He's not showing any kind of learning curve either, considering it seems they just go merry go round with tried and tested failures like Byron Scott. |
Unlike message boards, where people can post whatever they want, most corporations, even ones with maverick owners don't call out other coaches, much less their own. First of all, its a small fraternity of people who are actually in the business of professional basketball with extenuating circumstances that most of us don't know. Why do you think coaches get hired, fired and hired again. Buss saying that D'antoni and Brown were good hires isn't anything to get worried about. Its just public speaking aka corporate speak. Besides the owner and coach who gets champions...and there is only 1 a year, there's always unnecessary criticism with the other 29 teams. |
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kwase
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| Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2015 6:46 pm Post subject: |
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| LakerLanny wrote: | | I am actually OK with the Lakers keeping Kobe around if he is willing to take a reduced role and a reasonable salary. I have reservations that he would accept either and I very much doubt both happen. |
I don't know why people are so quick to push Kobe out the door. Let's be reasonable, we're probably not going to be good for at least a few more years and you need somebody to sell tickets and give fans a reason to watch. |
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kwase
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Joined: 21 Mar 2008
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| Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2015 6:49 pm Post subject: |
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| greenfrog wrote: | | Quote: | "I could care less if Mitch gets all the credit for it, he's the GM. He's the center point. When it came to blame, you'd think it'd be the same kind of thing but people look at me as kind of a privileged kid."
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... it's couldn't care less, Jim. |
And he's not "kind of" a privileged kid...He IS privileged! |
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