Eric Pincus article / interview with Jim Buss
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angrypuppy
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2015 6:56 pm    Post subject:

You tell 'em Jim!

Accountability is way overrated.
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Omar Little
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2015 7:16 pm    Post subject:

greenfrog wrote:
24 wrote:
Hard to reach clarity when the object is anything but clarity.


The truth is he said two completely contradictory things. My visceral reaction was to the one I thought was most likely to be the truth. You were right to correct me.


Nah. The truth is he said two things that can both be true:

Kobe can play as long as he wants.

If he wants to continue playing, there will be aspects he will have to accept regarding his role.

Pretty simple really. Clear even.
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bandiger
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2015 7:16 pm    Post subject: Re: It's his decision?

LAKERMIKE2 wrote:
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nba-ball-dont-lie/jim-buss-on-kobe-bryant-playing-past-2016---it-s-his-decision-220932600.html?soc_src=mail&soc_trk=ma

You have got to be kidding me!!!


Relax. Kobe would have to take a REDUCED role if he wants to play for several more years, he's not gonna be the alpha dog/iso guy although he could be the closer unless one of the young guns can step up their game.
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fiendishoc
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2015 7:25 pm    Post subject:

If Kobe took on a Parker/Ginobili hybrid role in reduced minutes, he'd probably still be pretty good at it for a couple of years, and no one would consider him a mere role player, especially if it's a good team. And look at Duncan- reduced usage and minutes, but still considered the MAN on that team.

I really don't believe that it needs to be 'high usage shotmaker' or bust...
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deal
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2015 7:33 pm    Post subject:

greenfrog wrote:
deal wrote:
Sounds lime Kobe is not certain what he wants to do and Jim is leaving that for open... Does not look like a big deal.


This coming season looks like Kobe will play SG and SF....


Again, the entire team needs to get to camp before any real decisions are made in stone, I would guess...


These positional distinctions don't mean a lot of when you've been at the level and have had the success Kobe has. Try explaining what position Lebron plays...



sure, Bron plays the...emmmm. Ok, give me a few weeks and lol get back to you...lol
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2015 7:40 pm    Post subject:

USCandLakers wrote:
Why is he opening his mouth? He really should just shut up.

Oh wait, wrong owner. With this one it's different for some reason. He has our permission to talk, so it's okay for him to say things.


That's the reward when you don't say much. The same benefit would be given to Jeanie had she conducted herself a similar fashion.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2015 8:03 pm    Post subject:

24 wrote:
greenfrog wrote:
24 wrote:
Hard to reach clarity when the object is anything but clarity.


The truth is he said two completely contradictory things. My visceral reaction was to the one I thought was most likely to be the truth. You were right to correct me.


Nah. The truth is he said two things that can both be true:

Kobe can play as long as he wants.

If he wants to continue playing, there will be aspects he will have to accept regarding his role.

Pretty simple really. Clear even.


So Jim's arms are only half open then, I guess.
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Omar Little
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2015 8:39 pm    Post subject:

greenfrog wrote:
24 wrote:
greenfrog wrote:
24 wrote:
Hard to reach clarity when the object is anything but clarity.


The truth is he said two completely contradictory things. My visceral reaction was to the one I thought was most likely to be the truth. You were right to correct me.


Nah. The truth is he said two things that can both be true:

Kobe can play as long as he wants.

If he wants to continue playing, there will be aspects he will have to accept regarding his role.

Pretty simple really. Clear even.


So Jim's arms are only half open then, I guess.
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Omar Little
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2015 8:40 pm    Post subject:

greenfrog wrote:
24 wrote:
greenfrog wrote:
24 wrote:
Hard to reach clarity when the object is anything but clarity.


The truth is he said two completely contradictory things. My visceral reaction was to the one I thought was most likely to be the truth. You were right to correct me.


Nah. The truth is he said two things that can both be true:

Kobe can play as long as he wants.

If he wants to continue playing, there will be aspects he will have to accept regarding his role.

Pretty simple really. Clear even.


So Jim's arms are only half open then, I guess.


Do you ever have a conversation where you aren't trying to be a (bleep)?
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mhan00
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2015 8:44 pm    Post subject:

Bottom line, it's do or die time. We've missed the playoffs an unprecedented two times in a row, and most pundits are predicting we will miss our third straight. It is not a good look to say the least, especially since in the public' eyes these possible three straight blanks would correspond exactly with the first three years following Dr. Buss's death and the kids inheriting the team. As has been said many times, we've got the tools now: the young talent and the cap space, execute or be executed.
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greenfrog
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2015 8:45 pm    Post subject:

24 wrote:
greenfrog wrote:
24 wrote:
greenfrog wrote:
24 wrote:
Hard to reach clarity when the object is anything but clarity.


The truth is he said two completely contradictory things. My visceral reaction was to the one I thought was most likely to be the truth. You were right to correct me.


Nah. The truth is he said two things that can both be true:

Kobe can play as long as he wants.

If he wants to continue playing, there will be aspects he will have to accept regarding his role.

Pretty simple really. Clear even.


So Jim's arms are only half open then, I guess.


Do you ever have a conversation where you aren't trying to be a (bleep)?


Only when the topics are so simple to understand... clear even.
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Omar Little
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2015 8:52 pm    Post subject:

greenfrog wrote:
24 wrote:
greenfrog wrote:
24 wrote:
greenfrog wrote:
24 wrote:
Hard to reach clarity when the object is anything but clarity.


The truth is he said two completely contradictory things. My visceral reaction was to the one I thought was most likely to be the truth. You were right to correct me.


Nah. The truth is he said two things that can both be true:

Kobe can play as long as he wants.

If he wants to continue playing, there will be aspects he will have to accept regarding his role.

Pretty simple really. Clear even.


So Jim's arms are only half open then, I guess.


Do you ever have a conversation where you aren't trying to be a (bleep)?


Only when the topics are so simple to understand... clear even.


You sure that's the right play?
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Rivershow
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2015 9:02 pm    Post subject:

fiendishoc wrote:
If Kobe took on a Parker/Ginobili hybrid role in reduced minutes, he'd probably still be pretty good at it for a couple of years, and no one would consider him a mere role player, especially if it's a good team. And look at Duncan- reduced usage and minutes, but still considered the MAN on that team.

I really don't believe that it needs to be 'high usage shotmaker' or bust...


Agreed.
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greenfrog
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2015 9:24 pm    Post subject:

24 wrote:
You sure that's the right play?


So you start a condescending pissing contest (that's how I took your last couple of posts), fling a direct insult, expect me to be nice about it, and then go to the ban card...
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fiendishoc
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2015 10:20 pm    Post subject:

More:
http://www.latimes.com/sports/lakers/lakersnow/la-sp-ln-jim-buss-defends-scott-lakers-analytics-20150828-story.html

He's on point mostly, with Kobe, free agency, and the young guys, but the biggest issue I have with this whole interview is with Byron. Yeah, you've been using analytics for a while, particularly with scouting, but how did you miss the entire league going the direction of Spurs? Space and pace, read and react, secondary actions to overcome zone defensive principles.

It's not just a function of the numbers saying we need more threes so lets get more shooters. The entire philosophy needs to change. You have a lot of interviews with coaches these days where they talk about 'back in the day the coach would call a play for this player and then it would go into an isolation but now we're so much more sophisticated'. Well, 'back in the day' is exactly what we have been doing. And it should have been stopped going back to training camp of last year, much less taking an entire season and counting.

It just shows a blind spot in the front office. Maybe its the lack of coaching experience in there, or just pride like 'we're the Lakers, we don't need to learn anything from the Spurs'.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2015 10:31 pm    Post subject:

greenfrog wrote:
24 wrote:
You sure that's the right play?


So you start a condescending pissing contest (that's how I took your last couple of posts), fling a direct insult, expect me to be nice about it, and then go to the ban card...


Yeah, that's pretty much the M.O. around here with some of the moderators.

If you disagree with them or they don't like your comments be prepared to suffer the consequences if you don't bend at the knee and kiss the ring.

Most of the debates here are just pissing contests where two people are saying the same thing but in different ways. People can't bare to say another person's opinion is valid because it might make their own opinion look less.

The emergence of anayltics just made it worse. I have statistical evidence, so I sound smarter. The more I write, the more right I am.

Some people just need to get a grip. Their post count or how much appreciation they get for their posts shouldn't go to their heads. Your opinions are just that. Not the end all be all, slam the gavel, word of God, final say.
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MJST
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2015 10:50 pm    Post subject:

greenfrog wrote:
24 wrote:
You sure that's the right play?


So you start a condescending pissing contest (that's how I took your last couple of posts), fling a direct insult, expect me to be nice about it, and then go to the ban card...


He wasn't condescending. He was clarifying what was said. You were the one that responded with the "arms half open" comment after he proved precisely what he was trying to say.
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THE_DAGGER
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2015 10:57 pm    Post subject:

I have to say hell of an opportunity landing a Jim Buss interview, as well as hell of job on the write up by Emplay.

Having said that, I don't see where some of you are getting validation from this article on the "let the young guys grow front". He still said he's on the two year contender time table, not the AFTER 3-5 years time table many of you are on.
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Omar Little
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2015 11:29 pm    Post subject:

MJST wrote:
greenfrog wrote:
24 wrote:
You sure that's the right play?


So you start a condescending pissing contest (that's how I took your last couple of posts), fling a direct insult, expect me to be nice about it, and then go to the ban card...


He wasn't condescending. He was clarifying what was said. You were the one that responded with the "arms half open" comment after he proved precisely what he was trying to say.


Yes, which is par for the course any time there is a discussion of the front office or Kobe. The constant need to naysay, provoke, play dumb, then get personal.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2015 11:33 pm    Post subject:

fiendishoc wrote:
More:
http://www.latimes.com/sports/lakers/lakersnow/la-sp-ln-jim-buss-defends-scott-lakers-analytics-20150828-story.html

He's on point mostly, with Kobe, free agency, and the young guys, but the biggest issue I have with this whole interview is with Byron. Yeah, you've been using analytics for a while, particularly with scouting, but how did you miss the entire league going the direction of Spurs? Space and pace, read and react, secondary actions to overcome zone defensive principles.

It's not just a function of the numbers saying we need more threes so lets get more shooters. The entire philosophy needs to change. You have a lot of interviews with coaches these days where they talk about 'back in the day the coach would call a play for this player and then it would go into an isolation but now we're so much more sophisticated'. Well, 'back in the day' is exactly what we have been doing. And it should have been stopped going back to training camp of last year, much less taking an entire season and counting.

It just shows a blind spot in the front office. Maybe its the lack of coaching experience in there, or just pride like 'we're the Lakers, we don't need to learn anything from the Spurs'.


He said plain and simple in the exact same article: INJURIES.

He got the "leaders of the new school" in D'antoni and Nash, who gave the blueprint to the Spurs and many of these teams, to appease you guys.

But, he didn't account for a bump to the knee to end Nash's career or for Kobe to suffer a season ending injury 3 seasons in a row, or the platoon of other injured players over the last couple of years.

Philosophy or analytics doesn't matter if you don't have the talent with health.

Why do we have to play copy cat with the rest of the league? Why do we have to be followers? I was always of the belief you don't fight fire with fire, you fight it with water. When the league goes one way, you should go the other.

It's not why didn't we copy the Spurs, but why didn't we stay with the Triangle?

Space and pace? The triangle was all about proper spacing and setting the pace.

Read and react? Triangle 101.

Secondary action? How about 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th and more with the options in the Triangle.

The mistake was not hiring Brian Shaw and washing away everything that had to do with the Triangle and Phil Jackson.

I also just wanted to ask the analytics guys here that have loathed Jim Buss over the years how it feels to know he's one of you?

It worries me that the guy with the final say is an analytics guy. I'm pretty sure he had the same if not similar anayltics that spit out that Russell had the highest superstar potential. I wonder how much anayltics, or lack of, played a factor in not considereing Mudiay or Hezonja.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 29, 2015 12:05 am    Post subject:

^ Speaking of the Spurs and the Triangle, the Spurs actually borrowed heavily from the Triangle in building their motion offense. I would say that they improved on it a lot as well, making it less deliberate, and engineering more efficient shots. That's what successful competitors do- they copy what works from others and put new twists on it. (Analogous to Kobe borrowing parts of the games of other top players to craft his own game.)

They don't just stick with what worked in the past dogmatically, because things change. And that goes for Phil and Dfish, who are now showing signs of departing from their previous 'purist' stance on the triangle, after their debacle of a season.

Fine if you want to go a different direction then everyone else- but you have to innovate- you can't go backwards into time and stick to something that everyone has evolved from.

As for your last line, it's pretty likely that the eye test (including games and workouts) was the biggest factor in selecting Russell. Just look at what Jerry West and Rick Pitino have said about him. Mychal Thompson is as old school as you can get, and after he watched Russell play, he said "That's the guy". Phil Jackson sat down to watch hours of video with Russell, and demonstrated to him how he could take the Kobe role in the triangle. And the analytics also liking him is definitely not a bad thing.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 29, 2015 12:34 am    Post subject:

Why is he wearing a baseball cap In every photo him I have ever seen?
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 29, 2015 12:38 am    Post subject:

DanielCollins wrote:
Why is he wearing a baseball cap In every photo him I have ever seen?
\

Because he is bald.
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Drifts
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 29, 2015 12:48 am    Post subject:

if the Lakers wants Kobe to take a backseat to the young guys, then it's tank time!
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 29, 2015 1:43 am    Post subject:

fiendishoc wrote:
^ Speaking of the Spurs and the Triangle, the Spurs actually borrowed heavily from the Triangle in building their motion offense. I would say that they improved on it a lot as well, making it less deliberate, and engineering more efficient shots. That's what successful competitors do- they copy what works from others and put new twists on it. (Analogous to Kobe borrowing parts of the games of other top players to craft his own game.)

They don't just stick with what worked in the past dogmatically, because things change. And that goes for Phil and Dfish, who are now showing signs of departing from their previous 'purist' stance on the triangle, after their debacle of a season.

Fine if you want to go a different direction then everyone else- but you have to innovate- you can't go backwards into time and stick to something that everyone has evolved from.

As for your last line, it's pretty likely that the eye test (including games and workouts) was the biggest factor in selecting Russell. Just look at what Jerry West and Rick Pitino have said about him. Mychal Thompson is as old school as you can get, and after he watched Russell play, he said "That's the guy". Phil Jackson sat down to watch hours of video with Russell, and demonstrated to him how he could take the Kobe role in the triangle. And the analytics also liking him is definitely not a bad thing.


I don't want to make this a semantics debate like I've already bashed others for doing. But, you should take from others and make it your own. I just feel like you're coming from a position where you're looking up to the Spurs or in awe of them. I'm pretty much coming from a position where I'm looking down at them, but I'm willing to take what they do into consideration.

I give Pop and the organization all the credit in the world. But, as a small market team, they have no choice but to try any and everything they can to gain a competitive advantage. Up until this offseason they were not a top free agent destination.

But, even they are at the mercy of the health of their talent. Particularly, with the health of Tony Parker. If he's 100% they go deep in playoffs. If not, their season ends early like it did last year.

That's one of, if not the main reasons why the Warriors won. They were the best team with the most health at the right time.

If we had our core players healthy the last few seasons it wouldn't have mattered what system we were running as a base. With playing and practice time together the players would have had the reigns of the team anyways. Byron would have opened it up to the players after that trust and foundation was built.

And Phil has been willing to innovate back to his Chicago days. He's had a stretch 4 or playmaking 4 on his teams: Kukoc, Horry, and Lamar. The corner 3 was a staple of the Triangle ask Pippen, Harper, and Fisher. Our last repeat we moved Kobe's post ups to iso post ups out further. He ran more PnR with Kobe and Gasol.

Again, not having talent and specifically talent with health is what hurts a team.
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