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SuperboyReformed
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 Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2015 12:40 pm Post subject: old-man post Kobe reminds me of Larry Bird |
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I'm watching these post plays of Kobe, and I was expecting it to remind me of MJ from 96-98, but it actually reminds me of Larry Bird. Bird was not a high flyer, and relied on his really fancy jukes and fakes in the post, including his magic-like passing as well. Kobe is reminding me of this rather than late stage MJ. He's not really rising above the defenders rather than faking them out. Makes sense with his footwork mastery.
as a sidenote, if he's going to play this way, the refs need to sort of protect him. With his reputation and everything, guys are going to really try to body him up and be rough, and if the nba doesn't want him to get injured, they've got to give him those "back off" whistles. Just like they give to Lebron. And they never gave this much to him during his prime years, and it's no wonder why his hands got mangled. they need to do it now. all these little leg injuries and hand injuries will add up. |
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pio2u
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| Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2015 1:48 pm Post subject: |
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| "Game recognizes game!" |
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BigBoi
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| Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2015 2:05 pm Post subject: |
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NBA wants him to retire, I doubt the refs are going to protect him. If anything they'll be sending him a message to stop playing iso ball
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Basketball Fan
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| Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2015 2:05 pm Post subject: |
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| So I should expect him to coach the Pacers in the future and then become VP/GM of the team 3 years later? |
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Megaton
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pio2u
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| Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2015 3:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Megaton wrote: | | Basketball Fan wrote: | | So I should expect him to coach the Lakers in the future and then become VP/GM of the team 3 years later? |
Fixed. |
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Basketball Fan
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| Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2015 3:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Well the OP said Larry Bird....... forgot to include publically firing Sam Perkins at a local restaurant(allegedly) |
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ryan_c
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| Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2015 4:23 pm Post subject: |
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| It just make sense that Kobe use his great footwork. |
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SuperboyReformed
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| Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2015 5:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Basketball Fan wrote: | | Well the OP said Larry Bird....... forgot to include publically firing Sam Perkins at a local restaurant(allegedly) |
well...since we're going there...how about kobe's final years being spent sprawled on the ground in front of the bench? |
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wolfpaclaker
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| Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2015 5:59 pm Post subject: |
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If Kobe stays healthy, I sense a lot of people will eat crow this year. The only thing is health. I don't know if physically he can do 70+ games a year anymore.
But if he does, and that momentum that comes with playing live games consistently, he'll be a 20-22 ppg all-star caliber player. Many people think he's basically a role player now. Last I checked role players don't create shots like he still can.
It would help if we had some serious talent and a system that was proven to be successful, instead of a lot of young kids and talent that's trying to mesh in. That'll make things harder for everyone. |
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Lakers#1Team
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| Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2015 6:11 pm Post subject: |
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| This is actually a nice comparison. Kobe is turning into a "prime" (notice the OP didn't say otherwise) Bird. I'll take that. |
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Nightwalker
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| Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2015 6:13 pm Post subject: |
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| I can see that comparison to Bird Kobe just needs to stay healthy that's only thing I'm worried about. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2015 8:34 pm Post subject: |
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| wolfpaclaker wrote: | If Kobe stays healthy, I sense a lot of people will eat crow this year. The only thing is health. I don't know if physically he can do 70+ games a year anymore.
But if he does, and that momentum that comes with playing live games consistently, he'll be a 20-22 ppg all-star caliber player. Many people think he's basically a role player now. Last I checked role players don't create shots like he still can.
It would help if we had some serious talent and a system that was proven to be successful, instead of a lot of young kids and talent that's trying to mesh in. That'll make things harder for everyone. |
You see "if healthy" gets complicated...
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Treble Clef
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| Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2015 8:54 pm Post subject: Re: old-man post Kobe reminds me of Larry Bird |
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| SuperboyReformed wrote: | I'm watching these post plays of Kobe, and I was expecting it to remind me of MJ from 96-98, but it actually reminds me of Larry Bird. Bird was not a high flyer, and relied on his really fancy jukes and fakes in the post, including his magic-like passing as well. Kobe is reminding me of this rather than late stage MJ. He's not really rising above the defenders rather than faking them out. Makes sense with his footwork mastery.
as a sidenote, if he's going to play this way, the refs need to sort of protect him. With his reputation and everything, guys are going to really try to body him up and be rough, and if the nba doesn't want him to get injured, they've got to give him those "back off" whistles. Just like they give to Lebron. And they never gave this much to him during his prime years, and it's no wonder why his hands got mangled. they need to do it now. all these little leg injuries and hand injuries will add up. |
Grinding in the post is not a way to stay healthy. All of his recent injuries have involved trying to post up players or drive by them. I don't really know how the refs can protect him from injury. They called fouls on almost all of the injury plays and he got hurt anyway. |
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SuperboyReformed
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| Posted: Fri Oct 16, 2015 1:02 pm Post subject: Re: old-man post Kobe reminds me of Larry Bird |
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| Treble Clef wrote: | | SuperboyReformed wrote: | I'm watching these post plays of Kobe, and I was expecting it to remind me of MJ from 96-98, but it actually reminds me of Larry Bird. Bird was not a high flyer, and relied on his really fancy jukes and fakes in the post, including his magic-like passing as well. Kobe is reminding me of this rather than late stage MJ. He's not really rising above the defenders rather than faking them out. Makes sense with his footwork mastery.
as a sidenote, if he's going to play this way, the refs need to sort of protect him. With his reputation and everything, guys are going to really try to body him up and be rough, and if the nba doesn't want him to get injured, they've got to give him those "back off" whistles. Just like they give to Lebron. And they never gave this much to him during his prime years, and it's no wonder why his hands got mangled. they need to do it now. all these little leg injuries and hand injuries will add up. |
Grinding in the post is not a way to stay healthy. All of his recent injuries have involved trying to post up players or drive by them. I don't really know how the refs can protect him from injury. They called fouls on almost all of the injury plays and he got hurt anyway. |
this is how...when a player starts crowding him, blow the whistle. he tries again, blow the whistle again. Now, he will be protected. same way they get artest off of lebron in the 1st quarter. same way they got all the lakers off of billups in 2004. |
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Fri Oct 16, 2015 2:21 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | wolfpaclaker wrote: | If Kobe stays healthy, I sense a lot of people will eat crow this year. The only thing is health. I don't know if physically he can do 70+ games a year anymore.
But if he does, and that momentum that comes with playing live games consistently, he'll be a 20-22 ppg all-star caliber player. Many people think he's basically a role player now. Last I checked role players don't create shots like he still can.
It would help if we had some serious talent and a system that was proven to be successful, instead of a lot of young kids and talent that's trying to mesh in. That'll make things harder for everyone. |
You see "if healthy" gets complicated... |
You mean because he can't even get through the preseason healthy?
If he was in his prime, man, he'd be a 27 PPG perennial all-star. |
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Fri Oct 16, 2015 2:25 pm Post subject: Re: old-man post Kobe reminds me of Larry Bird |
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| Treble Clef wrote: | | SuperboyReformed wrote: | I'm watching these post plays of Kobe, and I was expecting it to remind me of MJ from 96-98, but it actually reminds me of Larry Bird. Bird was not a high flyer, and relied on his really fancy jukes and fakes in the post, including his magic-like passing as well. Kobe is reminding me of this rather than late stage MJ. He's not really rising above the defenders rather than faking them out. Makes sense with his footwork mastery.
as a sidenote, if he's going to play this way, the refs need to sort of protect him. With his reputation and everything, guys are going to really try to body him up and be rough, and if the nba doesn't want him to get injured, they've got to give him those "back off" whistles. Just like they give to Lebron. And they never gave this much to him during his prime years, and it's no wonder why his hands got mangled. they need to do it now. all these little leg injuries and hand injuries will add up. |
Grinding in the post is not a way to stay healthy. All of his recent injuries have involved trying to post up players or drive by them. I don't really know how the refs can protect him from injury. They called fouls on almost all of the injury plays and he got hurt anyway. |
That's always been one of my favorite myths, that uptempo, spread offense teams are more susceptible to injury than the grind it out sort. |
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wolfpaclaker
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| Posted: Fri Oct 16, 2015 3:55 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | wolfpaclaker wrote: | If Kobe stays healthy, I sense a lot of people will eat crow this year. The only thing is health. I don't know if physically he can do 70+ games a year anymore.
But if he does, and that momentum that comes with playing live games consistently, he'll be a 20-22 ppg all-star caliber player. Many people think he's basically a role player now. Last I checked role players don't create shots like he still can.
It would help if we had some serious talent and a system that was proven to be successful, instead of a lot of young kids and talent that's trying to mesh in. That'll make things harder for everyone. |
You see "if healthy" gets complicated... |
Oh no doubt. I don't have any issue with those who label Bryant done because of health. But some seem to do so simply because he's lost the ability to beat people off the dribble or be that extra gear type of player, and mainly a jumpshooter now. I personally think post up and jumpshooting Kobe is still a 20-22 ppg guy in this league. The key is to get him back in rhythm. He hasn't played consistent live ball for years now. If he is able to get 20-30 games under his belt, I fully believe he'll finish out strong. The key for Kobe is to avoid a major injury this coming season. If he can, and for the love of god Byron keep him at 28-30 mpg, I think Bryant will be able to showcase how good a player he still is. |
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activeverb
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| Posted: Fri Oct 16, 2015 7:19 pm Post subject: |
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| BigBoi wrote: | | NBA wants him to retire, I doubt the refs are going to protect him. If anything they'll be sending him a message to stop playing iso ball |
I doubt the league cares what Kobe does one way or the other. The NBA has gone on auto-pilot, churning out more and more money every year, as franchise value goes up and up. The commissioner is always going to yammer on about how some teams lose money as a pre-bargain to the next CBA, but its been years and years since the league has a genuine worry. |
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moonriver24
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Fri Oct 16, 2015 8:45 pm Post subject: |
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| wolfpaclaker wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | wolfpaclaker wrote: | If Kobe stays healthy, I sense a lot of people will eat crow this year. The only thing is health. I don't know if physically he can do 70+ games a year anymore.
But if he does, and that momentum that comes with playing live games consistently, he'll be a 20-22 ppg all-star caliber player. Many people think he's basically a role player now. Last I checked role players don't create shots like he still can.
It would help if we had some serious talent and a system that was proven to be successful, instead of a lot of young kids and talent that's trying to mesh in. That'll make things harder for everyone. |
You see "if healthy" gets complicated... |
Oh no doubt. I don't have any issue with those who label Bryant done because of health. But some seem to do so simply because he's lost the ability to beat people off the dribble or be that extra gear type of player, and mainly a jumpshooter now. I personally think post up and jumpshooting Kobe is still a 20-22 ppg guy in this league. The key is to get him back in rhythm. He hasn't played consistent live ball for years now. If he is able to get 20-30 games under his belt, I fully believe he'll finish out strong. The key for Kobe is to avoid a major injury this coming season. If he can, and for the love of god Byron keep him at 28-30 mpg, I think Bryant will be able to showcase how good a player he still is. |
Don't disagree if healthy he could put up 20-22 ppg, but to be fair, any NBA player could do that if given the opportunities. The question is, can we be a good team with him doing that? I don't think so.
That's why I'd like to see Kobe defer. If we're not going to win, then let's develop the young core. |
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Treble Clef
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| Posted: Fri Oct 16, 2015 9:33 pm Post subject: Re: old-man post Kobe reminds me of Larry Bird |
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| SuperboyReformed wrote: | | Treble Clef wrote: | | SuperboyReformed wrote: | I'm watching these post plays of Kobe, and I was expecting it to remind me of MJ from 96-98, but it actually reminds me of Larry Bird. Bird was not a high flyer, and relied on his really fancy jukes and fakes in the post, including his magic-like passing as well. Kobe is reminding me of this rather than late stage MJ. He's not really rising above the defenders rather than faking them out. Makes sense with his footwork mastery.
as a sidenote, if he's going to play this way, the refs need to sort of protect him. With his reputation and everything, guys are going to really try to body him up and be rough, and if the nba doesn't want him to get injured, they've got to give him those "back off" whistles. Just like they give to Lebron. And they never gave this much to him during his prime years, and it's no wonder why his hands got mangled. they need to do it now. all these little leg injuries and hand injuries will add up. |
Grinding in the post is not a way to stay healthy. All of his recent injuries have involved trying to post up players or drive by them. I don't really know how the refs can protect him from injury. They called fouls on almost all of the injury plays and he got hurt anyway. |
this is how...when a player starts crowding him, blow the whistle. he tries again, blow the whistle again. Now, he will be protected. same way they get artest off of lebron in the 1st quarter. same way they got all the lakers off of billups in 2004. |
So if Kobe posts up, the zebras need to force the defender to just let Kobe back in to the basket for an uncontested layup? |
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tolivendiewithLA
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| Posted: Fri Oct 16, 2015 11:20 pm Post subject: |
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| activeverb wrote: | | BigBoi wrote: | | NBA wants him to retire, I doubt the refs are going to protect him. If anything they'll be sending him a message to stop playing iso ball |
I doubt the league cares what Kobe does one way or the other. The NBA has gone on auto-pilot, churning out more and more money every year, as franchise value goes up and up. The commissioner is always going to yammer on about how some teams lose money as a pre-bargain to the next CBA, but its been years and years since the league has a genuine worry. |
Well on Kobe the league is probably conflicting, he's one of the top 5 most popular players ever and biggest draws, but they also need to learn to move on like the NBA after Jordan. That said, and it's not 100% Kobe, but it is interesting the league ratings have dropped by 25-30% over the last two years pretty much coinciding with Kobe's achilles tear and subsequent decline. That's some big ratings drops for whatever reasoning. Outside Miami the year before, and then the Cavs/GS last year the NBA has been receiving poor ratings, playoffs included aside from those 3 squads. Inflation has a part in franchise value as much as anything else. The league would greatly benefit from the Lakers being good again. Because although the Lakers ratings have dropped off the last 2 seasons, they still finish among the top of the NBA. The Lakers double up the next closest team revenue and many teams do in fact lose money. |
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wolfpaclaker
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| Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2015 4:26 am Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | wolfpaclaker wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | wolfpaclaker wrote: | If Kobe stays healthy, I sense a lot of people will eat crow this year. The only thing is health. I don't know if physically he can do 70+ games a year anymore.
But if he does, and that momentum that comes with playing live games consistently, he'll be a 20-22 ppg all-star caliber player. Many people think he's basically a role player now. Last I checked role players don't create shots like he still can.
It would help if we had some serious talent and a system that was proven to be successful, instead of a lot of young kids and talent that's trying to mesh in. That'll make things harder for everyone. |
You see "if healthy" gets complicated... |
Oh no doubt. I don't have any issue with those who label Bryant done because of health. But some seem to do so simply because he's lost the ability to beat people off the dribble or be that extra gear type of player, and mainly a jumpshooter now. I personally think post up and jumpshooting Kobe is still a 20-22 ppg guy in this league. The key is to get him back in rhythm. He hasn't played consistent live ball for years now. If he is able to get 20-30 games under his belt, I fully believe he'll finish out strong. The key for Kobe is to avoid a major injury this coming season. If he can, and for the love of god Byron keep him at 28-30 mpg, I think Bryant will be able to showcase how good a player he still is. |
Don't disagree if healthy he could put up 20-22 ppg, but to be fair, any NBA player could do that if given the opportunities. The question is, can we be a good team with him doing that? I don't think so.
That's why I'd like to see Kobe defer. If we're not going to win, then let's develop the young core. |
Disagree.
Phil Jackson addressed that a few years ago. He said it is extremely hard for a player in the NBA to get off that many shots. The skillset involved has to be major. 2 seasons ago the team's best scorer was Nick Young. He was playing under a supportive coach in in MDA and had full reign to shoot. He averaged 17 ppg. That's the most he could do, being the #1 guy on that team down the stretch.
Kobe OTOH, is still better than that. He has moves - post moves, mid-range and all the way up to 3 point range. Like I said, it's all about game rhythm and health. If he stays healthy, avoids a major injury, by mid-season a lot of people will be shocked at how well he is playing.
I totally agree he should play within the team's offense. I don't want to see iso after iso for KB. |
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Goldenwest
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| Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2015 10:52 am Post subject: |
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| activeverb wrote: | | BigBoi wrote: | | NBA wants him to retire, I doubt the refs are going to protect him. If anything they'll be sending him a message to stop playing iso ball |
I doubt the league cares what Kobe does one way or the other. The NBA has gone on auto-pilot, churning out more and more money every year, as franchise value goes up and up. The commissioner is always going to yammer on about how some teams lose money as a pre-bargain to the next CBA, but its been years and years since the league has a genuine worry. |
If Kobe is having a resurgent year I'm sure the league would love to have him stick around, as long as he's playing at that renewed high level. He's still a mega draw, when he's on his game. I could see him getting a little bit of the superstar treatment from the refs in that case |
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