| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
yinoma2001
Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 119487
|
 Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2015 11:50 am Post subject: |
|
|
| 22 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | 22 wrote: | | Not that I care much for this particular topic, but I will say this. I do hold Duncan's poor Olympic play against him. Especially his "I don't wanna play anymore. I'm gonna take my ball and go home." attitude about it. |
Maybe. But he took that ball and then won 5 championships with it too. |
That's awesome. Just don't forget about the bronze medal too |
Yeah I'm sure that bronze medal will torpedo how people remember him. 
_________________
From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
22
Franchise Player
Joined: 05 Apr 2013
Posts: 17063
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2015 11:53 am Post subject: |
|
|
| yinoma2001 wrote: | | 22 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | 22 wrote: | | Not that I care much for this particular topic, but I will say this. I do hold Duncan's poor Olympic play against him. Especially his "I don't wanna play anymore. I'm gonna take my ball and go home." attitude about it. |
Maybe. But he took that ball and then won 5 championships with it too. |
That's awesome. Just don't forget about the bronze medal too |
Yeah I'm sure that bronze medal will torpedo how people remember him. |
Who cares if it does or doesn't? But it does affect my view of him |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
VegasLakerFan
Star Player
Joined: 25 Dec 2011
Posts: 1835
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2015 12:51 pm Post subject: Re: Kobe-Tim vs Kobe-Shaq |
|
|
Shaq's peak was higher than Duncan's by a pretty considerable margin, but Duncan has maintained his peak for far longer than Shaq - Duncan is truly the big man equivalent to Kobe.
Would Duncan have been able to convince Kobe to join him in taking a paycut to keep the roster competitive as they aged? That's another big one. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
VegasLakerFan
Star Player
Joined: 25 Dec 2011
Posts: 1835
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2015 12:54 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Darth Los Angeles wrote: | | He's basically been done for about 6-7 years. It's RC and Pop who are keeping him alive by stocking the team. |
DeAndre Jordan was just about helpless on Duncan one-on-one in the post. He can't do it for 40 minutes anymore, but Duncan is far from done. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
activeverb
Retired Number
Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 37470
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2015 12:55 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| 22 wrote: | | Not that I care much for this particular topic, but I will say this. I do hold Duncan's poor Olympic play against him. Especially his "I don't wanna play anymore. I'm gonna take my ball and go home." attitude about it. |
I don't blame him. Most of the other superstars in the league bailed on taking part of the team. They threw together a mismatched bunch, which had few outside shooters and only one point guard, and they had almost no practice time together. I think Duncan was ticked off by the whole process.
And in the aftermath of the debacle, the US changed its entire approach to the Olympics. I don't think many people blame Duncan for what happened, and most people understood why he didn't participate in future Olympics. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
22
Franchise Player
Joined: 05 Apr 2013
Posts: 17063
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2015 1:05 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| activeverb wrote: | | 22 wrote: | | Not that I care much for this particular topic, but I will say this. I do hold Duncan's poor Olympic play against him. Especially his "I don't wanna play anymore. I'm gonna take my ball and go home." attitude about it. |
I don't blame him. Most of the other superstars in the league bailed on taking part of the team. They threw together a mismatched bunch, which had few outside shooters and only one point guard, and they had almost no practice time together. I think Duncan was ticked off by the whole process.
And in the aftermath of the debacle, the US changed its entire approach to the Olympics. I don't think many people blame Duncan for what happened, and most people understood why he didn't participate in future Olympics. |
All I know is, I'd be pissed having lost in embarrassing fashion and want some revenge. It didn't stop LeBronze from coming back and getting his gold |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
activeverb
Retired Number
Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 37470
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2015 2:03 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| 22 wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | | 22 wrote: | | Not that I care much for this particular topic, but I will say this. I do hold Duncan's poor Olympic play against him. Especially his "I don't wanna play anymore. I'm gonna take my ball and go home." attitude about it. |
I don't blame him. Most of the other superstars in the league bailed on taking part of the team. They threw together a mismatched bunch, which had few outside shooters and only one point guard, and they had almost no practice time together. I think Duncan was ticked off by the whole process.
And in the aftermath of the debacle, the US changed its entire approach to the Olympics. I don't think many people blame Duncan for what happened, and most people understood why he didn't participate in future Olympics. |
All I know is, I'd be pissed having lost in embarrassing fashion and want some revenge. It didn't stop LeBronze from coming back and getting his gold |
I think Duncan was pissed at USA basketball and didn't want anymore dealings with them. By the 2008 Olympics, he was 31 and most superstars don't bother with the Olympics once they're in their 30s. They'd rather rest their bodies.
Also, Duncan has never been a big endorsement/media guy, so he didn't need the Olympics from that standpoint. And between 2004 and 2008, he added two more NBA rings to his resume, so the Olympics probably didn't seem like a big deal to him.
Lebron, in contrast, was just 23 and building his brand. So I don't think they're an apples-to-apples comparison. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
22
Franchise Player
Joined: 05 Apr 2013
Posts: 17063
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2015 2:13 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| activeverb wrote: | | 22 wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | | 22 wrote: | | Not that I care much for this particular topic, but I will say this. I do hold Duncan's poor Olympic play against him. Especially his "I don't wanna play anymore. I'm gonna take my ball and go home." attitude about it. |
I don't blame him. Most of the other superstars in the league bailed on taking part of the team. They threw together a mismatched bunch, which had few outside shooters and only one point guard, and they had almost no practice time together. I think Duncan was ticked off by the whole process.
And in the aftermath of the debacle, the US changed its entire approach to the Olympics. I don't think many people blame Duncan for what happened, and most people understood why he didn't participate in future Olympics. |
All I know is, I'd be pissed having lost in embarrassing fashion and want some revenge. It didn't stop LeBronze from coming back and getting his gold |
I think Duncan was pissed at USA basketball and didn't want anymore dealings with them. By the 2008 Olympics, he was 31 and most superstars don't bother with the Olympics once they're in their 30s. They'd rather rest their bodies.
Also, Duncan has never been a big endorsement/media guy, so he didn't need the Olympics from that standpoint. And between 2004 and 2008, he added two more NBA rings to his resume, so the Olympics probably didn't seem like a big deal to him.
Lebron, in contrast, was just 23 and building his brand. So I don't think they're an apples-to-apples comparison. |
Meh, none of those reasons excuse it in my opinion. When I think about players I highly respect or I'm thinking of the best of all time, the last thing I think about is "brand" lol.
I'd have a lot more respect for Duncan if he'd taken his loss like a man, and then returned to whoop some arse the next Olympics. But instead he quit and went home. Not something I respect much |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
activeverb
Retired Number
Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 37470
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2015 2:25 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| 22 wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | | 22 wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | | 22 wrote: | | Not that I care much for this particular topic, but I will say this. I do hold Duncan's poor Olympic play against him. Especially his "I don't wanna play anymore. I'm gonna take my ball and go home." attitude about it. |
I don't blame him. Most of the other superstars in the league bailed on taking part of the team. They threw together a mismatched bunch, which had few outside shooters and only one point guard, and they had almost no practice time together. I think Duncan was ticked off by the whole process.
And in the aftermath of the debacle, the US changed its entire approach to the Olympics. I don't think many people blame Duncan for what happened, and most people understood why he didn't participate in future Olympics. |
All I know is, I'd be pissed having lost in embarrassing fashion and want some revenge. It didn't stop LeBronze from coming back and getting his gold |
I think Duncan was pissed at USA basketball and didn't want anymore dealings with them. By the 2008 Olympics, he was 31 and most superstars don't bother with the Olympics once they're in their 30s. They'd rather rest their bodies.
Also, Duncan has never been a big endorsement/media guy, so he didn't need the Olympics from that standpoint. And between 2004 and 2008, he added two more NBA rings to his resume, so the Olympics probably didn't seem like a big deal to him.
Lebron, in contrast, was just 23 and building his brand. So I don't think they're an apples-to-apples comparison. |
Meh, none of those reasons excuse it in my opinion. When I think about players I highly respect or I'm thinking of the best of all time, the last thing I think about is "brand" lol.
I'd have a lot more respect for Duncan if he'd taken his loss like a man, and then returned to whoop some arse the next Olympics. But instead he quit and went home. Not something I respect much |
Everyone's entitled to their opinion. I can understand why Duncan wasn't interested in playing in the next Olympics, and his Olympics experience doesn't have any bearing on how I rate him as a player. But I really don't factor in the Olympics in how I regard any NBA player. That's me; your mileage might vary.
| 22 wrote: | | When I think about players I highly respect or I'm thinking of the best of all time, the last thing I think about is "brand" lol. |
You might not, but I have no doubt the players themselves think about their brand. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
22
Franchise Player
Joined: 05 Apr 2013
Posts: 17063
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2015 2:33 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| exactly. I factor in all aspects of a player's career. And in Duncan's case, his Olympic play is a blemish on the record. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
SuperboyReformed
Star Player
Joined: 07 Oct 2012
Posts: 4083
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2015 2:46 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| VegasLakerFan wrote: | | Darth Los Angeles wrote: | | He's basically been done for about 6-7 years. It's RC and Pop who are keeping him alive by stocking the team. |
DeAndre Jordan was just about helpless on Duncan one-on-one in the post. He can't do it for 40 minutes anymore, but Duncan is far from done. |
see this is what i dont get sometimes. duncan is far from done, but kobe is done. i disagree. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
activeverb
Retired Number
Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 37470
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2015 3:25 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| SuperboyReformed wrote: |
see this is what i dont get sometimes. duncan is far from done, but kobe is done. |
You don't get it because you can't accept that Kobe has barely played the last two years because of injuries. In your mind, Kobe has played 164 games and won two rings the last two years. So there's nothing to say -- you view the Kobe world as a fairy tale where nothing has ever or can ever go wrong. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
activeverb
Retired Number
Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 37470
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2015 4:41 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| 22 wrote: | | exactly. I factor in all aspects of a player's career. And in Duncan's case, his Olympic play is a blemish on the record. |
That's OK. By and large, I find people rate NBA players by how they do in the NBA. Their college and Olympics experience doesn't matter. If it does to you, cool. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
KBH
Franchise Player
Joined: 13 Sep 2008
Posts: 12171
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2015 4:53 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| yinoma2001 wrote: | | Megaton wrote: | Kobe and Duncan but I think they would be best on the Spurs than the Lakers.
Tim Duncan's deadpan personality wouldn't fit as well in La La Land.  |
He has a lot of the characteristics of players who helped balance Kobe (Odom, Fisher, Fox to name a few).
Now Kobe/KG would have been downright nasty and scary (for teammates). |
Kobe and KG would murder teammates for not showing up early to practice or dogging in some random game against Milwaukee in February. A team like that would have to change supporting casts around those two every two to three years because I don't think most players could deal with the intensity for too long. That said, of all the potential pairings, I think they would have the most potential to do something ridiculous like go 73-9 or flirt with the 33 game winning streak record. They would make sure every guy was locked in every night. For a long-term pairing, I think Kobe-Duncan is the most ideal because, like you've said, Duncan has the right personality traits to balance Kobe's intensity. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
KBH
Franchise Player
Joined: 13 Sep 2008
Posts: 12171
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2015 5:05 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| SuperboyReformed wrote: | | VegasLakerFan wrote: | | Darth Los Angeles wrote: | | He's basically been done for about 6-7 years. It's RC and Pop who are keeping him alive by stocking the team. |
DeAndre Jordan was just about helpless on Duncan one-on-one in the post. He can't do it for 40 minutes anymore, but Duncan is far from done. |
see this is what i dont get sometimes. duncan is far from done, but kobe is done. i disagree. |
We all must have missed when Duncan tore his Achilles, cracked his knee and tore his rotator cuff. Their situations are exactly the same. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
22
Franchise Player
Joined: 05 Apr 2013
Posts: 17063
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2015 5:40 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| activeverb wrote: | | 22 wrote: | | exactly. I factor in all aspects of a player's career. And in Duncan's case, his Olympic play is a blemish on the record. |
That's OK. By and large, I find people rate NBA players by how they do in the NBA. Their college and Olympics experience doesn't matter. If it does to you, cool. |
Not in my experience and the HOF looks at other competition besides the just NBA so I'm far from alone in this. Most of the time players of his ilk have done extremely well in Olympic play so it's usually a moot point to bring up, which is why you won't hear about it often. That's fine if you personally don't feel that way |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
tolivendiewithLA
Starting Rotation
Joined: 31 Oct 2014
Posts: 171
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2015 8:15 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Duncan's Olympic record certainly matters. This was before the rest of the World really started to catch up. The World wasn't to the level it was during the 2008 or 2010 years which was probably the peak for the rest of the World to this point. Guys like Duncan or Bron would have their Bronze medals looked past, if this were Kobe it be held against him for ever.
That said some really short changing Duncan in this thread. Duncan was either 1A or 2 to Kobe during their Era. While Kobe and Shaq over a shorter period would have more success as proven, and be more likely to 3-peat. Kobe and Duncan would have a ton of success together, he'd be like Pau 5.0. Humble enough to not get bothered if Kobe took the reigns, but a quiet beast just the same. Kobe and Duncan would have more sustained success, like 6 Titles over 10-12 years.
I do have to agree though that Duncan had a perfect storm for his personality in his career playing in boring SA. The LA spotlight wouldn't have suited his personality so well. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
22
Franchise Player
Joined: 05 Apr 2013
Posts: 17063
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2015 9:51 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| tolivendiewithLA wrote: | Duncan's Olympic record certainly matters. This was before the rest of the World really started to catch up. The World wasn't to the level it was during the 2008 or 2010 years which was probably the peak for the rest of the World to this point. Guys like Duncan or Bron would have their Bronze medals looked past, if this were Kobe it be held against him for ever.
That said some really short changing Duncan in this thread. Duncan was either 1A or 2 to Kobe during their Era. While Kobe and Shaq over a shorter period would have more success as proven, and be more likely to 3-peat. Kobe and Duncan would have a ton of success together, he'd be like Pau 5.0. Humble enough to not get bothered if Kobe took the reigns, but a quiet beast just the same. Kobe and Duncan would have more sustained success, like 6 Titles over 10-12 years.
I do have to agree though that Duncan had a perfect storm for his personality in his career playing in boring SA. The LA spotlight wouldn't have suited his personality so well. |
Great post |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
kobeandgary
Star Player
Joined: 18 Apr 2004
Posts: 6339
Location: Virginia
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2015 11:21 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| tolivendiewithLA wrote: | Duncan's Olympic record certainly matters. This was before the rest of the World really started to catch up. The World wasn't to the level it was during the 2008 or 2010 years which was probably the peak for the rest of the World to this point. Guys like Duncan or Bron would have their Bronze medals looked past, if this were Kobe it be held against him for ever.
That said some really short changing Duncan in this thread. Duncan was either 1A or 2 to Kobe during their Era. While Kobe and Shaq over a shorter period would have more success as proven, and be more likely to 3-peat. Kobe and Duncan would have a ton of success together, he'd be like Pau 5.0. Humble enough to not get bothered if Kobe took the reigns, but a quiet beast just the same. Kobe and Duncan would have more sustained success, like 6 Titles over 10-12 years.
I do have to agree though that Duncan had a perfect storm for his personality in his career playing in boring SA. The LA spotlight wouldn't have suited his personality so well. |
The Kobe and Shaq duo hasn't proven to have more short term success because Kobe never paired up with Duncan, they could have won both short term and long term. I also think Duncan would have handled the LA spotlight just fine as he shined his whole career, so I don't see why more "spotlight" would make a difference. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
yinoma2001
Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 119487
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2015 5:24 am Post subject: |
|
|
| tolivendiewithLA wrote: | Duncan's Olympic record certainly matters. This was before the rest of the World really started to catch up. The World wasn't to the level it was during the 2008 or 2010 years which was probably the peak for the rest of the World to this point. Guys like Duncan or Bron would have their Bronze medals looked past, if this were Kobe it be held against him for ever.
That said some really short changing Duncan in this thread. Duncan was either 1A or 2 to Kobe during their Era. While Kobe and Shaq over a shorter period would have more success as proven, and be more likely to 3-peat. Kobe and Duncan would have a ton of success together, he'd be like Pau 5.0. Humble enough to not get bothered if Kobe took the reigns, but a quiet beast just the same. Kobe and Duncan would have more sustained success, like 6 Titles over 10-12 years.
I do have to agree though that Duncan had a perfect storm for his personality in his career playing in boring SA. The LA spotlight wouldn't have suited his personality so well. |
Well, if we're using the 2004 Olympics against Duncan, was Kobe not permitted to be on the team in 2004 (was it Colorado?). So many notable NBA stars didn't play on that team and it was one of the worst assembled post-Dream Team rosters around. I don't think Duncan was the culprit; you can look to the then-team leaders: Iverson/Marbury. You had 2nd year players in Lebron, Wade, Melo, then guys like Boozer, (collegian Okafor). That team was a mess and I think we are downplaying the 2004 Argentinian team a bit (though the team lost to Greece/Puerto Rico/Lithuania too).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_United_States_men%27s_Olympic_basketball_team
Further, 2 years before, our Men's National team finished SIXTH in the FIBA tournament. That team was also a rag tag collection of misfits. In short, the US dropped the ball completely post 2000 Olympics. Where were the other stars like Kobe, KG, Kidd, Shaq, etc.? (I understand Kobe/Shaq played in their 4th Finals).
Agree with the rest of the post however.
I'd say the biggest knock on Duncan was the fact he could never will/guide his team to consecutive championships. Shaq, despite being a less than motivated off season trainer, with Kobe, would will that team to consecutive rings. Duncan couldn't but with Kobe, maybe, but certainly not for sure.
_________________
From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
venturalakersfan
Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144469
Location: The Gold Coast
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2015 10:07 am Post subject: |
|
|
| 22 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | 22 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | 22 wrote: | | Not that I care much for this particular topic, but I will say this. I do hold Duncan's poor Olympic play against him. Especially his "I don't wanna play anymore. I'm gonna take my ball and go home." attitude about it. |
Maybe. But he took that ball and then won 5 championships with it too. |
That's awesome. Just don't forget about the bronze medal too |
Yeah I'm sure that bronze medal will torpedo how people remember him. |
Who cares if it does or doesn't? But it does affect my view of him |
But not most NBA fans. They care about, well, the NBA. Not some exhibition.
_________________
RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023.
Last edited by venturalakersfan on Thu Sep 24, 2015 10:13 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
venturalakersfan
Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144469
Location: The Gold Coast
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2015 10:09 am Post subject: |
|
|
| 22 wrote: | | exactly. I factor in all aspects of a player's career. And in Duncan's case, his Olympic play is a blemish on the record. |
His great college career vastly shadows his Olympic career.
_________________
RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
venturalakersfan
Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144469
Location: The Gold Coast
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2015 10:11 am Post subject: |
|
|
| KBH wrote: | | SuperboyReformed wrote: | | VegasLakerFan wrote: | | Darth Los Angeles wrote: | | He's basically been done for about 6-7 years. It's RC and Pop who are keeping him alive by stocking the team. |
DeAndre Jordan was just about helpless on Duncan one-on-one in the post. He can't do it for 40 minutes anymore, but Duncan is far from done. |
see this is what i dont get sometimes. duncan is far from done, but kobe is done. i disagree. |
We all must have missed when Duncan tore his Achilles, cracked his knee and tore his rotator cuff. Their situations are exactly the same. |
That is the point that apparently flew over your head.
_________________
RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
venturalakersfan
Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144469
Location: The Gold Coast
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2015 10:12 am Post subject: |
|
|
| tolivendiewithLA wrote: | Duncan's Olympic record certainly matters. This was before the rest of the World really started to catch up. The World wasn't to the level it was during the 2008 or 2010 years which was probably the peak for the rest of the World to this point. Guys like Duncan or Bron would have their Bronze medals looked past, if this were Kobe it be held against him for ever.
That said some really short changing Duncan in this thread. Duncan was either 1A or 2 to Kobe during their Era. While Kobe and Shaq over a shorter period would have more success as proven, and be more likely to 3-peat. Kobe and Duncan would have a ton of success together, he'd be like Pau 5.0. Humble enough to not get bothered if Kobe took the reigns, but a quiet beast just the same. Kobe and Duncan would have more sustained success, like 6 Titles over 10-12 years.
I do have to agree though that Duncan had a perfect storm for his personality in his career playing in boring SA. The LA spotlight wouldn't have suited his personality so well. |
And for a period of time 1 to Kobe's 2.
_________________
RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ringfinger
Retired Number
Joined: 08 Oct 2013
Posts: 29418
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2015 10:18 am Post subject: |
|
|
| SuperboyReformed wrote: | | VegasLakerFan wrote: | | Darth Los Angeles wrote: | | He's basically been done for about 6-7 years. It's RC and Pop who are keeping him alive by stocking the team. |
DeAndre Jordan was just about helpless on Duncan one-on-one in the post. He can't do it for 40 minutes anymore, but Duncan is far from done. |
see this is what i dont get sometimes. duncan is far from done, but kobe is done. i disagree. |
Sometimes?!!?
Kobe is done in terms of being the #1 on a good team. A good team cannot feature Kobe as the #1.
Duncan realized this some time ago, which is why he's been taking more and more of a backseat.
So Duncan has shown he can be effective in more of a backseat role. Kobe hasn't yet shown an interest in even trying to do that. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
