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fiendishoc
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 Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2015 11:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Amazed that you guys are carrying this on during a close game. |
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2015 11:12 pm Post subject: |
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| fiendishoc wrote: | | Amazed that you guys are carrying this on during a close preseasongame. |
Fixed =)
And just on commercial breaks I'm sure. |
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pjiddy
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RCS926
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| Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2015 9:28 am Post subject: |
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That wasn't from last night. Also, it's a little more understandable in the context of trying to play for the last shot. Kobe is certainly going to have a few of those moments, but the preseason has shown thus far that Kobe is willing to let the offense come to him. |
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Laker415.
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| Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2015 11:10 am Post subject: |
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Offensively, still a beast.
Defensively, he's lost it. He can play your occassional 1v1 matchups, but like Harden, will sacrifice defense for offense, which makes sense...
Kobe's my favorite NBA player, however, I won't deny the fact he is a defensively liability. |
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golaker
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| Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2015 12:40 pm Post subject: |
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| RCS926 wrote: |
That wasn't from last night. Also, it's a little more understandable in the context of trying to play for the last shot. Kobe is certainly going to have a few of those moments, but the preseason has shown thus far that Kobe is willing to let the offense come to him. |
Sad how some Laker fans are, he probably didn't even watch the game.
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2015 6:14 am Post subject: |
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| golaker wrote: | | RCS926 wrote: |
That wasn't from last night. Also, it's a little more understandable in the context of trying to play for the last shot. Kobe is certainly going to have a few of those moments, but the preseason has shown thus far that Kobe is willing to let the offense come to him. |
Sad how some Laker fans are, he probably didn't even watch the game. |
Agree with both of you guys on this one. This play was probably the only one of it's kind in the first two preseason games. Overall, Kobe has done a great job of not forcing it too much.
The challenge/dilemma I see for him is -- when the going gets tough. It's one thing to not force the issue as he has often done and do so in a meaningless game. It's another to do it when it counts. I guess the bigger question is -- what would be the ideal thing to happen when the going gets tough?
I'd like to see him apply his years of experience and wisdom on to the younger guys and see if he can lead them to making the right decisions as opposed to taking it upon himself. I think we saw, esepcially in game 2, and in much of game 1 when things weren't going well, that we need to identify who that player is going to be that can carry us during droughts as well as on critical plays such as game or quarter ending situations. Nick Young was awful at that. |
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RCS926
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| Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2015 7:19 am Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | golaker wrote: | | RCS926 wrote: |
That wasn't from last night. Also, it's a little more understandable in the context of trying to play for the last shot. Kobe is certainly going to have a few of those moments, but the preseason has shown thus far that Kobe is willing to let the offense come to him. |
Sad how some Laker fans are, he probably didn't even watch the game. |
Agree with both of you guys on this one. This play was probably the only one of it's kind in the first two preseason games. Overall, Kobe has done a great job of not forcing it too much.
The challenge/dilemma I see for him is -- when the going gets tough. It's one thing to not force the issue as he has often done and do so in a meaningless game. It's another to do it when it counts. I guess the bigger question is -- what would be the ideal thing to happen when the going gets tough?
I'd like to see him apply his years of experience and wisdom on to the younger guys and see if he can lead them to making the right decisions as opposed to taking it upon himself. I think we saw, esepcially in game 2, and in much of game 1 when things weren't going well, that we need to identify who that player is going to be that can carry us during droughts as well as on critical plays such as game or quarter ending situations. Nick Young was awful at that. |
Finally, I agree with you. It's one thing for Kobe to play a measured game when the stakes don't matter. It's another thing altogether for Kobe to reign himself in when he feels the need to "put the team on his shoulders". There are going to be stretches during games when he doesn't touch the ball for several positions in a row due to Russell, Clarkson or Randle creating offense for themselves or others. Kobe needs to practice patience during these stretches and allow the kids to spread their wings.
We've seen gunner Kobe and facilitator Kobe as well as a mix of both. The common denominator in all those roles was that Kobe controlled the ball. He has the tools to be extremely effective off the ball, but he has to accept that his usage rate is going to go down. I have faith in Kobe to make it all work, but we still have to see how it all plays out. I'd like to see Kobe stay the course when the team faces "adversity". However, I'm sure he's still going to have moments of hero ball throughout the season. I just hope that those moments are few and far between. |
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SuperboyReformed
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| Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2015 11:57 am Post subject: |
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Is this from last night? If it is, ever considered the idea that Kobe is testing his coordination/quickness and trying to gauge how effective he can be? That is certainly a possibility. he'll use the preseason to see if he can do what his mind is used to telling him to do. If he can't, he will adjust for the important plays/games later.
I don't get this attitude of Laker fans eager for Kobe to just give it up. No other superstar was treated like this. With MJ it was like "No! Don't go!" even when he came back old version wizards mode, the fans were encouraging him. This is a ridiculous attitude, especially from Laker fans. |
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golaker
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| Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2015 1:35 pm Post subject: |
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Or it could just be that it was the final 24 seconds of the quarter and Kobe was holding it for the last shot.
I think he's earned that right.
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Maybe you think it's completely innocent. Maybe you don't. But there's no denying that what the rule book says means a lot less than what the NBA wants at any given moment. -Tim Donaghy |
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pjiddy
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| Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2015 2:03 pm Post subject: |
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| golaker wrote: | Or it could just be that it was the final 24 seconds of the quarter and Kobe was holding it for the last shot.
I think he's earned that right. |
To answer your first post, no, i didn't watch the game. I was working. I had to follow a box score and watch high highlights later. Turns out it was the game previous to that. I'll admit to the mistake, but what difference does it make which preseason game it was? Either way, it's still a bad possession.
And whether Kobe has "earned the right" at the expense of the team or good play is an absurd prioritization. Many teams, playoff teams even, will run actual plays when time is running out, instead of the archaic "star player dribbles out the shotclock and then takes a pull-up jumper." We saw Lou and Nick try this, too, at the end of the 2nd game. How about practicing an actual play? |
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2015 2:05 pm Post subject: |
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| pjiddy wrote: | | golaker wrote: | Or it could just be that it was the final 24 seconds of the quarter and Kobe was holding it for the last shot.
I think he's earned that right. |
To answer your first post, no, i didn't watch the game. I was working. I had to follow a box score and watch high highlights later. Turns out it was the game previous to that. I'll admit to the mistake, but what difference does it make which preseason game it was? Either way, it's still a bad possession.
And whether Kobe has "earned the right" at the expense of the team or good play is an absurd prioritization. Many teams, playoff teams even, will run actual plays when time is running out, instead of the archaic "star player dribbles out the shotclock and then takes a pull-up jumper." We saw Lou and Nick try this, too, at the end of the 2nd game. How about practicing an actual play? |
Also worth saying that throwing out one bad possession in a sea of pretty decent, disciplined ball seems a bit like trying to use a technical truth to perpetuate a larger lie... |
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2015 2:08 pm Post subject: |
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| golaker wrote: | Or it could just be that it was the final 24 seconds of the quarter and Kobe was holding it for the last shot.
I think he's earned that right. |
This makes no sense.
What's better for the team?
- The iso that happened
or
- Running a play
No one earns the right to do something that is worse for the team. In either case, as long as we don't see a lot of this from Kobe, we'll be fine. |
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fiendishoc
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| Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2015 2:18 pm Post subject: |
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| pjiddy wrote: | | golaker wrote: | Or it could just be that it was the final 24 seconds of the quarter and Kobe was holding it for the last shot.
I think he's earned that right. |
To answer your first post, no, i didn't watch the game. I was working. I had to follow a box score and watch high highlights later. Turns out it was the game previous to that. I'll admit to the mistake, but what difference does it make which preseason game it was? Either way, it's still a bad possession.
And whether Kobe has "earned the right" at the expense of the team or good play is an absurd prioritization. Many teams, playoff teams even, will run actual plays when time is running out, instead of the archaic "star player dribbles out the shotclock and then takes a pull-up jumper." We saw Lou and Nick try this, too, at the end of the 2nd game. How about practicing an actual play? |
It was an actual play. A high PnR with Sacre. Utah did the same with Hayward. The problem was that the Jazz defended it well, Sacre did a poor job of rolling, Jabari's back door cut failed, and Kobe had to choose between throwing a grenade to Bass which would have likely have been closed out on and blocked, or launch a difficult fadeaway that he hit with regularity in his prime. |
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golaker
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| Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2015 2:35 pm Post subject: |
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| 24 wrote: | | pjiddy wrote: | | golaker wrote: | Or it could just be that it was the final 24 seconds of the quarter and Kobe was holding it for the last shot.
I think he's earned that right. |
To answer your first post, no, i didn't watch the game. I was working. I had to follow a box score and watch high highlights later. Turns out it was the game previous to that. I'll admit to the mistake, but what difference does it make which preseason game it was? Either way, it's still a bad possession.
And whether Kobe has "earned the right" at the expense of the team or good play is an absurd prioritization. Many teams, playoff teams even, will run actual plays when time is running out, instead of the archaic "star player dribbles out the shotclock and then takes a pull-up jumper." We saw Lou and Nick try this, too, at the end of the 2nd game. How about practicing an actual play? |
Also worth saying that throwing out one bad possession in a sea of pretty decent, disciplined ball seems a bit like trying to use a technical truth to perpetuate a larger lie... |
Also, it was a preseason game.
Let's not pretend like this team is going to play within a spurs like, precision orchestrated offense. Kobe's not going to ruin anything, trust me on that one.
If Kobe, in his last year, on a horrible team, wants to carry up the ball and make his own play on the last shot of the 2nd quarter, in a preseason game, than he can do so without posters coming in after the game (a game they didn't watch) and posting one of these stupid faces 
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Maybe you think it's completely innocent. Maybe you don't. But there's no denying that what the rule book says means a lot less than what the NBA wants at any given moment. -Tim Donaghy |
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golaker
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2015 3:38 pm Post subject: |
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| golaker wrote: | | 24 wrote: | | pjiddy wrote: | | golaker wrote: | Or it could just be that it was the final 24 seconds of the quarter and Kobe was holding it for the last shot.
I think he's earned that right. |
To answer your first post, no, i didn't watch the game. I was working. I had to follow a box score and watch high highlights later. Turns out it was the game previous to that. I'll admit to the mistake, but what difference does it make which preseason game it was? Either way, it's still a bad possession.
And whether Kobe has "earned the right" at the expense of the team or good play is an absurd prioritization. Many teams, playoff teams even, will run actual plays when time is running out, instead of the archaic "star player dribbles out the shotclock and then takes a pull-up jumper." We saw Lou and Nick try this, too, at the end of the 2nd game. How about practicing an actual play? |
Also worth saying that throwing out one bad possession in a sea of pretty decent, disciplined ball seems a bit like trying to use a technical truth to perpetuate a larger lie... |
Also, it was a preseason game.
Let's not pretend like this team is going to play within a spurs like, precision orchestrated offense. Kobe's not going to ruin anything, trust me on that one.
If Kobe, in his last year, on a horrible team, wants to carry up the ball and make his own play on the last shot of the 2nd quarter, in a preseason game, than he can do so without posters coming in after the game (a game they didn't watch) and posting one of these stupid faces |
It's not so much about ruining anything, it's more about setting the right example. On that play, no, that's not at all the right example.
But pretty much every other play this season? Kobe's been spot on.
Not sure why people can't just say yeah, that was a dumb play, but recognize the majority of the other plays have been anythign but. We don't have to pretend it was a great decision do we? |
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golaker
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| Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2015 3:43 pm Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | golaker wrote: | | 24 wrote: | | pjiddy wrote: | | golaker wrote: | Or it could just be that it was the final 24 seconds of the quarter and Kobe was holding it for the last shot.
I think he's earned that right. |
To answer your first post, no, i didn't watch the game. I was working. I had to follow a box score and watch high highlights later. Turns out it was the game previous to that. I'll admit to the mistake, but what difference does it make which preseason game it was? Either way, it's still a bad possession.
And whether Kobe has "earned the right" at the expense of the team or good play is an absurd prioritization. Many teams, playoff teams even, will run actual plays when time is running out, instead of the archaic "star player dribbles out the shotclock and then takes a pull-up jumper." We saw Lou and Nick try this, too, at the end of the 2nd game. How about practicing an actual play? |
Also worth saying that throwing out one bad possession in a sea of pretty decent, disciplined ball seems a bit like trying to use a technical truth to perpetuate a larger lie... |
Also, it was a preseason game.
Let's not pretend like this team is going to play within a spurs like, precision orchestrated offense. Kobe's not going to ruin anything, trust me on that one.
If Kobe, in his last year, on a horrible team, wants to carry up the ball and make his own play on the last shot of the 2nd quarter, in a preseason game, than he can do so without posters coming in after the game (a game they didn't watch) and posting one of these stupid faces |
It's not so much about ruining anything, it's more about setting the right example. On that play, no, that's not at all the right example.
But pretty much every other play this season? Kobe's been spot on.
Not sure why people can't just say yeah, that was a dumb play, but recognize the majority of the other plays have been anythign but. We don't have to pretend it was a great decision do we? |
Nobody has pretended it was a great decision, so I don't understand where you're coming from or what it is that you want.
I don't think you'll find many laker fans, or any fan that isn't a Kobe hater for that matter, going out of their way to point out that Kobe made a bad play in his 20th season on a bad team in a preseason game. I think you'll be mostly alone on that one.
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Maybe you think it's completely innocent. Maybe you don't. But there's no denying that what the rule book says means a lot less than what the NBA wants at any given moment. -Tim Donaghy |
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al242
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| Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2015 6:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Kobe looks like he has a lot left in the tank, I don't know why everyone wants to see him retire so badly. He can still offer a lot to the Lakers, and offer these young kids a lot of great developmental tips throughout the years |
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2015 6:58 pm Post subject: |
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| golaker wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | golaker wrote: | | 24 wrote: | | pjiddy wrote: | | golaker wrote: | Or it could just be that it was the final 24 seconds of the quarter and Kobe was holding it for the last shot.
I think he's earned that right. |
To answer your first post, no, i didn't watch the game. I was working. I had to follow a box score and watch high highlights later. Turns out it was the game previous to that. I'll admit to the mistake, but what difference does it make which preseason game it was? Either way, it's still a bad possession.
And whether Kobe has "earned the right" at the expense of the team or good play is an absurd prioritization. Many teams, playoff teams even, will run actual plays when time is running out, instead of the archaic "star player dribbles out the shotclock and then takes a pull-up jumper." We saw Lou and Nick try this, too, at the end of the 2nd game. How about practicing an actual play? |
Also worth saying that throwing out one bad possession in a sea of pretty decent, disciplined ball seems a bit like trying to use a technical truth to perpetuate a larger lie... |
Also, it was a preseason game.
Let's not pretend like this team is going to play within a spurs like, precision orchestrated offense. Kobe's not going to ruin anything, trust me on that one.
If Kobe, in his last year, on a horrible team, wants to carry up the ball and make his own play on the last shot of the 2nd quarter, in a preseason game, than he can do so without posters coming in after the game (a game they didn't watch) and posting one of these stupid faces |
It's not so much about ruining anything, it's more about setting the right example. On that play, no, that's not at all the right example.
But pretty much every other play this season? Kobe's been spot on.
Not sure why people can't just say yeah, that was a dumb play, but recognize the majority of the other plays have been anythign but. We don't have to pretend it was a great decision do we? |
Nobody has pretended it was a great decision, so I don't understand where you're coming from or what it is that you want.
I don't think you'll find many laker fans, or any fan that isn't a Kobe hater for that matter, going out of their way to point out that Kobe made a bad play in his 20th season on a bad team in a preseason game. I think you'll be mostly alone on that one. |
Well, you did say he earned the right to make that play. No need to defend it. One bad play among a sea of good ones. Right?
Anyway, I wasn't the one that brought that up. In fact, if you were paying attention instead of allowing oversensitivity to cloud reason, you would have seen that I actually agreed with you and RCS that calling this one play out wasn't fair since it was pretty much the only bad play from the man. Scroll up -- you'll see.
I disagreed with the silly idea he has a right to make a bad play. No one is ever right to do that. But they're going to happen. As long as they are the exception and not the rule then it's no big deal. |
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golaker
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| Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2015 7:05 pm Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | golaker wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | golaker wrote: | | 24 wrote: | | pjiddy wrote: | | golaker wrote: | Or it could just be that it was the final 24 seconds of the quarter and Kobe was holding it for the last shot.
I think he's earned that right. |
To answer your first post, no, i didn't watch the game. I was working. I had to follow a box score and watch high highlights later. Turns out it was the game previous to that. I'll admit to the mistake, but what difference does it make which preseason game it was? Either way, it's still a bad possession.
And whether Kobe has "earned the right" at the expense of the team or good play is an absurd prioritization. Many teams, playoff teams even, will run actual plays when time is running out, instead of the archaic "star player dribbles out the shotclock and then takes a pull-up jumper." We saw Lou and Nick try this, too, at the end of the 2nd game. How about practicing an actual play? |
Also worth saying that throwing out one bad possession in a sea of pretty decent, disciplined ball seems a bit like trying to use a technical truth to perpetuate a larger lie... |
Also, it was a preseason game.
Let's not pretend like this team is going to play within a spurs like, precision orchestrated offense. Kobe's not going to ruin anything, trust me on that one.
If Kobe, in his last year, on a horrible team, wants to carry up the ball and make his own play on the last shot of the 2nd quarter, in a preseason game, than he can do so without posters coming in after the game (a game they didn't watch) and posting one of these stupid faces |
It's not so much about ruining anything, it's more about setting the right example. On that play, no, that's not at all the right example.
But pretty much every other play this season? Kobe's been spot on.
Not sure why people can't just say yeah, that was a dumb play, but recognize the majority of the other plays have been anythign but. We don't have to pretend it was a great decision do we? |
Nobody has pretended it was a great decision, so I don't understand where you're coming from or what it is that you want.
I don't think you'll find many laker fans, or any fan that isn't a Kobe hater for that matter, going out of their way to point out that Kobe made a bad play in his 20th season on a bad team in a preseason game. I think you'll be mostly alone on that one. |
Well, you did say he earned the right to make that play. No need to defend it. One bad play among a sea of good ones. Right?
Anyway, I wasn't the one that brought that up. In fact, if you were paying attention instead of allowing oversensitivity to cloud reason, you would have seen that I actually agreed with you and RCS that calling this one play out wasn't fair since it was pretty much the only bad play from the man. Scroll up -- you'll see.
I disagreed with the silly idea he has a right to make a bad play. No one is ever right to do that. But they're going to happen. As long as they are the exception and not the rule then it's no big deal. |
Who said he has the right to make a bad play? Where/how are you coming up with this stuff?
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Maybe you think it's completely innocent. Maybe you don't. But there's no denying that what the rule book says means a lot less than what the NBA wants at any given moment. -Tim Donaghy |
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2015 7:08 pm Post subject: |
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Golaker, you did, about 10-11 posts up.
Let's move on. It was one bad play. Every player is going to have them. |
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Tony Anapolis
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| Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2015 9:12 pm Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | golaker wrote: | | RCS926 wrote: |
That wasn't from last night. Also, it's a little more understandable in the context of trying to play for the last shot. Kobe is certainly going to have a few of those moments, but the preseason has shown thus far that Kobe is willing to let the offense come to him. |
Sad how some Laker fans are, he probably didn't even watch the game. |
Agree with both of you guys on this one. This play was probably the only one of it's kind in the first two preseason games. Overall, Kobe has done a great job of not forcing it too much.
The challenge/dilemma I see for him is -- when the going gets tough. It's one thing to not force the issue as he has often done and do so in a meaningless game. It's another to do it when it counts. I guess the bigger question is -- what would be the ideal thing to happen when the going gets tough?
I'd like to see him apply his years of experience and wisdom on to the younger guys and see if he can lead them to making the right decisions as opposed to taking it upon himself. I think we saw, esepcially in game 2, and in much of game 1 when things weren't going well, that we need to identify who that player is going to be that can carry us during droughts as well as on critical plays such as game or quarter ending situations. Nick Young was awful at that. |
I think it's got to be Randle or Clarkson? DLo is going to soak it in this year, try to facilitate. I'm sure he will have some big scoring nights, but in reality it probably has to be Clarkson? Randle just has that frame man he can bang. |
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2015 9:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Tony Anapolis wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | golaker wrote: | | RCS926 wrote: |
That wasn't from last night. Also, it's a little more understandable in the context of trying to play for the last shot. Kobe is certainly going to have a few of those moments, but the preseason has shown thus far that Kobe is willing to let the offense come to him. |
Sad how some Laker fans are, he probably didn't even watch the game. |
Agree with both of you guys on this one. This play was probably the only one of it's kind in the first two preseason games. Overall, Kobe has done a great job of not forcing it too much.
The challenge/dilemma I see for him is -- when the going gets tough. It's one thing to not force the issue as he has often done and do so in a meaningless game. It's another to do it when it counts. I guess the bigger question is -- what would be the ideal thing to happen when the going gets tough?
I'd like to see him apply his years of experience and wisdom on to the younger guys and see if he can lead them to making the right decisions as opposed to taking it upon himself. I think we saw, esepcially in game 2, and in much of game 1 when things weren't going well, that we need to identify who that player is going to be that can carry us during droughts as well as on critical plays such as game or quarter ending situations. Nick Young was awful at that. |
I think it's got to be Randle or Clarkson? DLo is going to soak it in this year, try to facilitate. I'm sure he will have some big scoring nights, but in reality it probably has to be Clarkson? Randle just has that frame man he can bang. |
Right, I feel like it's going to be Clarkson if it's a game ending type of situation. Randle can bang, but, he can't shoot. And can't depend on getting the whistle late so until Randle develops a reliable jumper (and FTs) I'd probably go with Clarkson. That and JC has a 3ball in his arsenal. |
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golaker
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| Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2015 9:18 pm Post subject: |
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But you do realize it's going to be Kobe, right?
Or are we going back to this "Kobe will finally change" thing?
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Maybe you think it's completely innocent. Maybe you don't. But there's no denying that what the rule book says means a lot less than what the NBA wants at any given moment. -Tim Donaghy |
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