We have to cut four players by the end of training camp (Lakers waive Upshaw, Frazier, Holmes and Brown, p60)
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venturalakersfan
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2015 9:05 am    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
novadolla wrote:
Sting wrote:
Anthony Brown hasn't done a thing since he was drafted.... summer league/preseason even got a chance with starters to just spot up shoot and was a non factor.... Holmes seems like he doesn't have a chance...Frazier also hasn't shined at all.... Huertas has been hurt but based on his resume he will be worthwhile vet to have behind the kids Clarkson and Russell....Kelly has been playing good ball and should make it... mwp has been active and should be on the team as an enforcer and depth for when Kobe wants to take a game off here and there.... last spot comes down to sacre or upshaw... upshaw is raw but has flashed potential. mitch should buy out sacre..jabari can just create his own shot, and shoot. A good player can get to the line, and Jabari can.. have to keep this kid

my lineup
C: Hibbert/Black
PF: Randle/Bass/Kelly
SF: Kobe/Young/MWP
SG: Clarkson/Lou
PG: Russell/Huetras
13-15 D League
Upshaw C, Nance PF/SF, J Brown SG


This is the best scenario that I've seen posted around here and I think this is more likely to unfold.


That's what I think it looks like. Frankly, I'm shocked by the lack of production by Anthony Brown. He's already a super-senior out of Stanford. Dude needs to build confidence in the D-League.


When you play one full game out of 4 your productivity will pretty much be confined to that one game. You were calling him invisible in game 3 and he was, he was out with injury.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2015 9:11 am    Post subject:

Jim99187 wrote:
upshaw still needs to be on the squad to learn everyday nba and to get mentored from Hibbert


Yipes, if true we're screwed. Hibbert was a divisive force at Indy who withdrew and sulked, giving up. Let's not ask him to mentor anyone, let alone some kid with a spotty citizenship history.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2015 9:27 am    Post subject:

Yong wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
I can't vouch for inexperience.

Anthony Brown is a 5th year senior. I get that he plays defense. But, at Stanford, he was contributing as a subtle playmaker, rebounder, defender, and scorer.

All we've seen is defense. For a guy that was productive across the board at the NCAA level, that is usually supposed to project immediately to the next level. Dude was a 15ppg 7rpg 2.5 apg player on a greater than 1:1 A/TO ratio. Yet, I see his minutes and a bunch of gooseeggs across the stat sheet.

That's what has me concerned.

This isn't like Larry Nance. Nance is an older rookie, but his energy, defensive intensity, and rebounding stick out immediately once he's on the floor.

I hope it's just a confidence thing and that he's just a late bloomer. But at the same time, this is exactly why scouts absolutely do not like drafting any player after the age of 22. The projection for success plummets dramatically.


and yet we drafted 2 rookies over 22 in the same year. Does that grind your gear?


No, because I like both players. But, one of them came off an ACL injury. Yet, the guy who came off of an ACL injury never looks like he disappears in games. He's not assertive offensively, but you can bet he's crashing the boards and playing defense. He's usually at the center of the activity.

Anthony Brown slipped to the 2nd round in an average depth of draft for a reason. I like him. I just expected more out of his 3 and D play.

Norman Powell has a similar role. No problem being aggressive.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2015 9:41 am    Post subject:

I know they gave him a 3 year deal, but how much of Brown's contract is guaranteed?
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2015 9:46 am    Post subject:

Why are we concerned about A Brown at this point? For now, I'm content to see him play solid defense, knock down open Js and not make mistakes while he's on the floor. I don't care how old he is. I don't expect him to be some revelation on the court when he's just a rookie. There is almost no flash to his game, so I don't see why people are expecting "flashes". As he gains strength and confidence, we'll start to see "flashes" when he has strong defensive possessions or hits 2 or 3 shots in a row.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2015 9:57 am    Post subject:

It's not about A.Brown showing flashes.

It is about making sure it doesn't look like he disappears like Wesley Johnson.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2015 10:07 am    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
It's not about A.Brown showing flashes.

It is about making sure it doesn't look like he disappears like Wesley Johnson.


That's assuming he can get consistent minutes. Right now, our core (Russell, Clarkson, and Randle) has three guys who can initiate the offense, so the last thing we need is another ball dominant player on the court. We need guys who can be recipients of that offense.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2015 10:09 am    Post subject:

LakerBaker wrote:
I know they gave him a 3 year deal, but how much of Brown's contract is guaranteed?


First two years.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2015 10:13 am    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
It's not about A.Brown showing flashes.

It is about making sure it doesn't look like he disappears like Wesley Johnson.


If he causes the man he's guarding to disappear, then I don't really care. Besides, Wes' problems went beyond just disappearing in games. He was erratic in every area of the game from playing defense to shooting with consistency to playing with energy. It was a travesty to see Wes disappear because his elite athletic gifts should've impacted the game on a more consistent basis.

Brown clearly isn't the same athlete, so I don't expect him to be that kind of player. At any rate, I'm not saying that I love what I've seen from Brown. I just don't see much to complain about at this point.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2015 10:23 am    Post subject:

Anthony Brown has been a huge disappointment so far from what I've seen going back to Summer league. Dude can't do anything offensively. His man defense has been solid but not enough to really warrant a roster spot right now.

Right now my cut list is:

Robert Sacre
Ryan Kelly
Holmes
Brown
Frazier
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2015 10:24 am    Post subject:

70sdude wrote:
Jim99187 wrote:
upshaw still needs to be on the squad to learn everyday nba and to get mentored from Hibbert


Yipes, if true we're screwed. Hibbert was a divisive force at Indy who withdrew and sulked, giving up. Let's not ask him to mentor anyone, let alone some kid with a spotty citizenship history.


Actually, he wasn't the divisive one.
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Mike@LG
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2015 10:24 am    Post subject:

That's the thing. During Vegas we saw what Nance Jr. and Russell were all about. A.Brown was lost in the conversation.

It's not a complaint. It's a concern about his progression as an NBA player.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2015 10:26 am    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
That's the thing. During Vegas we saw what Nance Jr. and Russell were all about. A.Brown was lost in the conversation.

It's not a complaint. It's a concern about his progression as an NBA player.


I think he's going to be a late bloomer. Tentative and lacking confidence right now. Needs a lot of reps at NBA speed. Will benefit from D league.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2015 10:27 am    Post subject:

24 wrote:
70sdude wrote:
Jim99187 wrote:
upshaw still needs to be on the squad to learn everyday nba and to get mentored from Hibbert


Yipes, if true we're screwed. Hibbert was a divisive force at Indy who withdrew and sulked, giving up. Let's not ask him to mentor anyone, let alone some kid with a spotty citizenship history.


Actually, he wasn't the divisive one.


Yeah, Hibbert wasn't the one causing the problems it was Lance Stephenson and Paul George.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2015 10:36 am    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
That's the thing. During Vegas we saw what Nance Jr. and Russell were all about. A.Brown was lost in the conversation.

It's not a complaint. It's a concern about his progression as an NBA player.


Concern? We knew what he was coming out of Stanford. A catch and shoot player offensively, and a strong defender on the other side of the court. He's shot the ball, what five times and made two of them? Again, it's way too early to make any kind of conclusions about him. Right now, he's not a rotational player, but that doesn't mean he doesn't have a future with this team.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2015 10:50 am    Post subject:

Karmaloop wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
That's the thing. During Vegas we saw what Nance Jr. and Russell were all about. A.Brown was lost in the conversation.

It's not a complaint. It's a concern about his progression as an NBA player.


Concern? We knew what he was coming out of Stanford. A catch and shoot player offensively, and a strong defender on the other side of the court. He's shot the ball, what five times and made two of them? Again, it's way too early to make any kind of conclusions about him. Right now, he's not a rotational player, but that doesn't mean he doesn't have a future with this team.


He was more than just that out of Stanford. He is being pigeon-holed into a 3-and-D role because he's not a dynamic ball-handler.

The difference between Vegas Pro League and Stanford? Activity. IQ. He was active on the boards and 2.5apg out of a small forward slot from a guy who isn't a dynamic ball-handler isn't something to overlook.

Yeah, he's a late bloomer.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2015 11:07 am    Post subject:

Stats aren't' everything especially when it comes to defense.

I thought A Brown did really well last night on D. He would close out well and never really got beat. I like what he brings on the defensive side.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2015 11:09 am    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
That's the thing. During Vegas we saw what Nance Jr. and Russell were all about. A.Brown was lost in the conversation.

It's not a complaint. It's a concern about his progression as an NBA player.


He hasn't even been an NBA player for a year. Knee-jerk reactions to rookies who you've only seen in summer league and preseason is how GM's lose jobs. That isn't to say Brown hasn't been underwhelming thus far, but no need to hit the panic button. He warrants at least a year on sheer potential alone as a 3 and D player, maybe even the SF of the future unless a superstar comes. Relax, guy.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2015 11:30 am    Post subject:

At the moment, cut:

Holmes
Frazier
Sacre
Jabari
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2015 11:31 am    Post subject:

Judah wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
That's the thing. During Vegas we saw what Nance Jr. and Russell were all about. A.Brown was lost in the conversation.

It's not a complaint. It's a concern about his progression as an NBA player.


He hasn't even been an NBA player for a year. Knee-jerk reactions to rookies who you've only seen in summer league and preseason is how GM's lose jobs. That isn't to say Brown hasn't been underwhelming thus far, but no need to hit the panic button. He warrants at least a year on sheer potential alone as a 3 and D player, maybe even the SF of the future unless a superstar comes. Relax, guy.


Okay, I'll repeat the same thing.

He's a late bloomer. As I've said earlier, he's a 5th year senior as well. I don't think lack of experience at the NBA level can hold up, especially when his other rookie teammates, even undrafted Upshaw, look more visible on the court.

The idea that he's "just a 3-and-D" player is only because he's being pigeon-holed as one at the NBA level. But at Stanford, he's more than that.

I'm not asking him for great iso ability. I am asking for proper activity. That's something that every player across the Laker team has shown outside of Huertas, regardless of what unit or level of experience.

This isn't even a knee-jerk reaction. 5th year senior. Vegas Pro League. I would expect him to be at a different level of comfort on the floor compared to his rookie teammates. Clearly, he's not at that level yet. He needs confidence.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2015 11:43 am    Post subject:

22 wrote:
At the moment, cut:

Holmes
Frazier
Sacre
Jabari


That is exactly what I have right now... I was hoping for more from Holmes, hopefully he gets a couple more opportunities with extended minutes before a final decision is made. To be honest, I am a little torn between him and A. Brown
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2015 12:47 pm    Post subject:

Holmes, Frazier and Jabari seem to be on the outs but I'm not sure about Sacre.

Upshaw clearly isn't ready and yes it's a risk to put him in the Dleague w/out keeping him on the roster. So you use that roster spot on Upshaw and somebody else besides Sacre has to go. If Hibbert goes down, we've got nothing at the C slot. Tarik is ok but not as a full time starter, Upshaw could possibly give us 10-15 minutes before he tires/fouls out so the only other guy we've got to fill those minutes is Sacre.

Possibly Ryan Kelly can get traded for something? We've been sorta showcasing him.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2015 1:07 pm    Post subject:

22 wrote:
At the moment, cut:

Holmes
Frazier
Sacre
Jabari


Seems right to me though I'm not sure between Sacre or Tarik Black.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2015 1:16 pm    Post subject:

^I have been disappointed in Black's lackluster defense, but I am still taking him over Sacre 9 times out of 10. But I think it's a real possibility that they go with 14 instead of 15 again, so Black might still be on the bubble after those 4 are cut.
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Jim99187
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2015 1:30 pm    Post subject:

i am pretty disappointed in Holmes and frazier. saw nothing where I am ok to cut Kelly or Metta
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