We have to cut four players by the end of training camp (Lakers waive Upshaw, Frazier, Holmes and Brown, p60)
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2015 1:34 pm    Post subject:

People are really still giving Jabari Brown the benefit of the doubt? He's been absolutely horrible this whole entire preseason.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2015 1:35 pm    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
Yong wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
I can't vouch for inexperience.

Anthony Brown is a 5th year senior. I get that he plays defense. But, at Stanford, he was contributing as a subtle playmaker, rebounder, defender, and scorer.

All we've seen is defense. For a guy that was productive across the board at the NCAA level, that is usually supposed to project immediately to the next level. Dude was a 15ppg 7rpg 2.5 apg player on a greater than 1:1 A/TO ratio. Yet, I see his minutes and a bunch of gooseeggs across the stat sheet.

That's what has me concerned.

This isn't like Larry Nance. Nance is an older rookie, but his energy, defensive intensity, and rebounding stick out immediately once he's on the floor.

I hope it's just a confidence thing and that he's just a late bloomer. But at the same time, this is exactly why scouts absolutely do not like drafting any player after the age of 22. The projection for success plummets dramatically.


and yet we drafted 2 rookies over 22 in the same year. Does that grind your gear?


No, because I like both players. But, one of them came off an ACL injury. Yet, the guy who came off of an ACL injury never looks like he disappears in games. He's not assertive offensively, but you can bet he's crashing the boards and playing defense. He's usually at the center of the activity.

Anthony Brown slipped to the 2nd round in an average depth of draft for a reason. I like him. I just expected more out of his 3 and D play.

Norman Powell has a similar role. No problem being aggressive.


I think Brown might be a replacement for Kobe at the 3 next season.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2015 1:36 pm    Post subject:

The Logo wrote:
People are really still giving Jabari Brown the benefit of the doubt? He's been absolutely horrible this whole entire preseason.


Even if he wasn't playing horribly, he really doesn't bring anything new to the table that isn't already covered by Russell, Clarkson, Kobe, Lou and Nick.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2015 1:38 pm    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
Judah wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
That's the thing. During Vegas we saw what Nance Jr. and Russell were all about. A.Brown was lost in the conversation.

It's not a complaint. It's a concern about his progression as an NBA player.


He hasn't even been an NBA player for a year. Knee-jerk reactions to rookies who you've only seen in summer league and preseason is how GM's lose jobs. That isn't to say Brown hasn't been underwhelming thus far, but no need to hit the panic button. He warrants at least a year on sheer potential alone as a 3 and D player, maybe even the SF of the future unless a superstar comes. Relax, guy.


Okay, I'll repeat the same thing.

He's a late bloomer. As I've said earlier, he's a 5th year senior as well. I don't think lack of experience at the NBA level can hold up, especially when his other rookie teammates, even undrafted Upshaw, look more visible on the court.

The idea that he's "just a 3-and-D" player is only because he's being pigeon-holed as one at the NBA level. But at Stanford, he's more than that.

I'm not asking him for great iso ability. I am asking for proper activity. That's something that every player across the Laker team has shown outside of Huertas, regardless of what unit or level of experience.

This isn't even a knee-jerk reaction. 5th year senior. Vegas Pro League. I would expect him to be at a different level of comfort on the floor compared to his rookie teammates. Clearly, he's not at that level yet. He needs confidence.


Brown's problem is that everything works off his shot. That's how he gets the closeout, allowing him to put it on the floor for a dribble or two, draw another defender, and make a pass. He does not have a creative skill set. Everything comes from the shot.

And right now, he is simply second guessing that, as rookies often do faced with the speed increase in the NBA. He's passing up his shot, or shooting it with a mental hitch first. Thus it doesn't fall, and the closeout becomes softer, and he has no driving lane. As I said, he doesn't create off the dribble, so unlike a Randle or Clarkson or even Jabari, he can't get it going other ways, and must rely on his shot to open things up, yet he's too timid there.

He simply needs to go spend some time in the D league being able to hoist his shot and build confidence in it, and then bring that back to the parent club. Until he's willing to let it fly immediately when open, he will struggle.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2015 1:41 pm    Post subject:

RCS926 wrote:
The Logo wrote:
People are really still giving Jabari Brown the benefit of the doubt? He's been absolutely horrible this whole entire preseason.


Even if he wasn't playing horribly, he really doesn't bring anything new to the table that isn't already covered by Russell, Clarkson, Kobe, Lou and Nick.

With Jabari, we were hoping that he'd transition from a scorer who needs the ball in his hands to a capable spot up shooter. He's done the exact opposite this pre-season and has seemingly regressed if anything. Has been playing with complete tunnel vision and his ball handling is not good enough to be a scorer off the bench with the ball in his hands. There are concerns about Anthony Brown, but if anything at least he adds something to the team compared to Jabari. Anthony just needs to get repetitions up for shooting. His defense was solid last night.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2015 1:42 pm    Post subject:

ok, i have my four players at this point: Holmes, Frazier, J. Brown and Sacre

i would be really disappointed if Huertas, Upshaw and even Metta got cut tbh
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2015 1:47 pm    Post subject:

I honestly thought Holmes played well enough in the Toronto game to warrant him another look. Frazier is capable enough of bringing the ball up the floor, but I'd like to see him with another ball handler who can get him open shots before making a decision on him.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2015 1:47 pm    Post subject:

24 wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
Judah wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
That's the thing. During Vegas we saw what Nance Jr. and Russell were all about. A.Brown was lost in the conversation.

It's not a complaint. It's a concern about his progression as an NBA player.


He hasn't even been an NBA player for a year. Knee-jerk reactions to rookies who you've only seen in summer league and preseason is how GM's lose jobs. That isn't to say Brown hasn't been underwhelming thus far, but no need to hit the panic button. He warrants at least a year on sheer potential alone as a 3 and D player, maybe even the SF of the future unless a superstar comes. Relax, guy.


Okay, I'll repeat the same thing.

He's a late bloomer. As I've said earlier, he's a 5th year senior as well. I don't think lack of experience at the NBA level can hold up, especially when his other rookie teammates, even undrafted Upshaw, look more visible on the court.

The idea that he's "just a 3-and-D" player is only because he's being pigeon-holed as one at the NBA level. But at Stanford, he's more than that.

I'm not asking him for great iso ability. I am asking for proper activity. That's something that every player across the Laker team has shown outside of Huertas, regardless of what unit or level of experience.

This isn't even a knee-jerk reaction. 5th year senior. Vegas Pro League. I would expect him to be at a different level of comfort on the floor compared to his rookie teammates. Clearly, he's not at that level yet. He needs confidence.


Brown's problem is that everything works off his shot. That's how he gets the closeout, allowing him to put it on the floor for a dribble or two, draw another defender, and make a pass. He does not have a creative skill set. Everything comes from the shot.

And right now, he is simply second guessing that, as rookies often do faced with the speed increase in the NBA. He's passing up his shot, or shooting it with a mental hitch first. Thus it doesn't fall, and the closeout becomes softer, and he has no driving lane. As I said, he doesn't create off the dribble, so unlike a Randle or Clarkson or even Jabari, he can't get it going other ways, and must rely on his shot to open things up, yet he's too timid there.

He simply needs to go spend some time in the D league being able to hoist his shot and build confidence in it, and then bring that back to the parent club. Until he's willing to let it fly immediately when open, he will struggle.


Bear in mind that the guy who Brown resembles really closely, both in terms of height/build/length and measurables like speed and vertical, is Danny Green. Danny Green was damn near useless his first year in the league, and fairly useless in year two. Both guys had much the same issues to overcome, but Brown actually is ahead in the shot department.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2015 2:14 pm    Post subject:

24 wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
Judah wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
That's the thing. During Vegas we saw what Nance Jr. and Russell were all about. A.Brown was lost in the conversation.

It's not a complaint. It's a concern about his progression as an NBA player.


He hasn't even been an NBA player for a year. Knee-jerk reactions to rookies who you've only seen in summer league and preseason is how GM's lose jobs. That isn't to say Brown hasn't been underwhelming thus far, but no need to hit the panic button. He warrants at least a year on sheer potential alone as a 3 and D player, maybe even the SF of the future unless a superstar comes. Relax, guy.


Okay, I'll repeat the same thing.

He's a late bloomer. As I've said earlier, he's a 5th year senior as well. I don't think lack of experience at the NBA level can hold up, especially when his other rookie teammates, even undrafted Upshaw, look more visible on the court.

The idea that he's "just a 3-and-D" player is only because he's being pigeon-holed as one at the NBA level. But at Stanford, he's more than that.

I'm not asking him for great iso ability. I am asking for proper activity. That's something that every player across the Laker team has shown outside of Huertas, regardless of what unit or level of experience.

This isn't even a knee-jerk reaction. 5th year senior. Vegas Pro League. I would expect him to be at a different level of comfort on the floor compared to his rookie teammates. Clearly, he's not at that level yet. He needs confidence.


Brown's problem is that everything works off his shot. That's how he gets the closeout, allowing him to put it on the floor for a dribble or two, draw another defender, and make a pass. He does not have a creative skill set. Everything comes from the shot.

And right now, he is simply second guessing that, as rookies often do faced with the speed increase in the NBA. He's passing up his shot, or shooting it with a mental hitch first. Thus it doesn't fall, and the closeout becomes softer, and he has no driving lane. As I said, he doesn't create off the dribble, so unlike a Randle or Clarkson or even Jabari, he can't get it going other ways, and must rely on his shot to open things up, yet he's too timid there.

He simply needs to go spend some time in the D league being able to hoist his shot and build confidence in it, and then bring that back to the parent club. Until he's willing to let it fly immediately when open, he will struggle.

Scott said that he was really pleased with how A. Brown played yesterday. Kobe said he did "extremely well."

http://www.ocregister.com/articles/brown-687142-lakers-first.html
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2015 2:18 pm    Post subject:

The Logo wrote:
RCS926 wrote:
The Logo wrote:
People are really still giving Jabari Brown the benefit of the doubt? He's been absolutely horrible this whole entire preseason.


Even if he wasn't playing horribly, he really doesn't bring anything new to the table that isn't already covered by Russell, Clarkson, Kobe, Lou and Nick.

With Jabari, we were hoping that he'd transition from a scorer who needs the ball in his hands to a capable spot up shooter. He's done the exact opposite this pre-season and has seemingly regressed if anything. Has been playing with complete tunnel vision and his ball handling is not good enough to be a scorer off the bench with the ball in his hands. There are concerns about Anthony Brown, but if anything at least he adds something to the team compared to Jabari. Anthony just needs to get repetitions up for shooting. His defense was solid last night.


I think A Brown also needs to continue to spend more time in the weight room. Added strength will increase his confidence on defense, and as others have mentioned, getting valuable time in the D league will give him the confidence to pull the trigger on his J.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2015 2:40 pm    Post subject:

It's too bad we haven't seen Huertas play in pre season games. He is likely out tomorrow again with the hamstring. I guess him missing most of the pre season games probably won't effect him from making the roster.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2015 4:26 pm    Post subject:

RCS926 wrote:
The Logo wrote:
RCS926 wrote:
The Logo wrote:
People are really still giving Jabari Brown the benefit of the doubt? He's been absolutely horrible this whole entire preseason.


Even if he wasn't playing horribly, he really doesn't bring anything new to the table that isn't already covered by Russell, Clarkson, Kobe, Lou and Nick.

With Jabari, we were hoping that he'd transition from a scorer who needs the ball in his hands to a capable spot up shooter. He's done the exact opposite this pre-season and has seemingly regressed if anything. Has been playing with complete tunnel vision and his ball handling is not good enough to be a scorer off the bench with the ball in his hands. There are concerns about Anthony Brown, but if anything at least he adds something to the team compared to Jabari. Anthony just needs to get repetitions up for shooting. His defense was solid last night.


I think A Brown also needs to continue to spend more time in the weight room. Added strength will increase his confidence on defense, and as others have mentioned, getting valuable time in the D league will give him the confidence to pull the trigger on his J.


Agreed.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2015 4:31 pm    Post subject:

32 wrote:
It's too bad we haven't seen Huertas play in pre season games. He is likely out tomorrow again with the hamstring. I guess him missing most of the pre season games probably won't effect him from making the roster.


Huertas with the "they can't cut me if they can't evaluate me" strategy.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2015 4:33 pm    Post subject:

24 wrote:
32 wrote:
It's too bad we haven't seen Huertas play in pre season games. He is likely out tomorrow again with the hamstring. I guess him missing most of the pre season games probably won't effect him from making the roster.


Huertas with the "they can't cut me if they can't evaluate me" strategy.


true
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2015 4:33 pm    Post subject:

24 wrote:
24 wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
Judah wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
That's the thing. During Vegas we saw what Nance Jr. and Russell were all about. A.Brown was lost in the conversation.

It's not a complaint. It's a concern about his progression as an NBA player.


He hasn't even been an NBA player for a year. Knee-jerk reactions to rookies who you've only seen in summer league and preseason is how GM's lose jobs. That isn't to say Brown hasn't been underwhelming thus far, but no need to hit the panic button. He warrants at least a year on sheer potential alone as a 3 and D player, maybe even the SF of the future unless a superstar comes. Relax, guy.


Okay, I'll repeat the same thing.

He's a late bloomer. As I've said earlier, he's a 5th year senior as well. I don't think lack of experience at the NBA level can hold up, especially when his other rookie teammates, even undrafted Upshaw, look more visible on the court.

The idea that he's "just a 3-and-D" player is only because he's being pigeon-holed as one at the NBA level. But at Stanford, he's more than that.

I'm not asking him for great iso ability. I am asking for proper activity. That's something that every player across the Laker team has shown outside of Huertas, regardless of what unit or level of experience.

This isn't even a knee-jerk reaction. 5th year senior. Vegas Pro League. I would expect him to be at a different level of comfort on the floor compared to his rookie teammates. Clearly, he's not at that level yet. He needs confidence.


Brown's problem is that everything works off his shot. That's how he gets the closeout, allowing him to put it on the floor for a dribble or two, draw another defender, and make a pass. He does not have a creative skill set. Everything comes from the shot.

And right now, he is simply second guessing that, as rookies often do faced with the speed increase in the NBA. He's passing up his shot, or shooting it with a mental hitch first. Thus it doesn't fall, and the closeout becomes softer, and he has no driving lane. As I said, he doesn't create off the dribble, so unlike a Randle or Clarkson or even Jabari, he can't get it going other ways, and must rely on his shot to open things up, yet he's too timid there.

He simply needs to go spend some time in the D league being able to hoist his shot and build confidence in it, and then bring that back to the parent club. Until he's willing to let it fly immediately when open, he will struggle.


Bear in mind that the guy who Brown resembles really closely, both in terms of height/build/length and measurables like speed and vertical, is Danny Green. Danny Green was damn near useless his first year in the league, and fairly useless in year two. Both guys had much the same issues to overcome, but Brown actually is ahead in the shot department.


Does Danny Green look more athletic to you than Brown from what you have seen? Just curious...
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2015 4:36 pm    Post subject:

lukewaltonsdad wrote:
24 wrote:
24 wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
Judah wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
That's the thing. During Vegas we saw what Nance Jr. and Russell were all about. A.Brown was lost in the conversation.

It's not a complaint. It's a concern about his progression as an NBA player.


He hasn't even been an NBA player for a year. Knee-jerk reactions to rookies who you've only seen in summer league and preseason is how GM's lose jobs. That isn't to say Brown hasn't been underwhelming thus far, but no need to hit the panic button. He warrants at least a year on sheer potential alone as a 3 and D player, maybe even the SF of the future unless a superstar comes. Relax, guy.


Okay, I'll repeat the same thing.

He's a late bloomer. As I've said earlier, he's a 5th year senior as well. I don't think lack of experience at the NBA level can hold up, especially when his other rookie teammates, even undrafted Upshaw, look more visible on the court.

The idea that he's "just a 3-and-D" player is only because he's being pigeon-holed as one at the NBA level. But at Stanford, he's more than that.

I'm not asking him for great iso ability. I am asking for proper activity. That's something that every player across the Laker team has shown outside of Huertas, regardless of what unit or level of experience.

This isn't even a knee-jerk reaction. 5th year senior. Vegas Pro League. I would expect him to be at a different level of comfort on the floor compared to his rookie teammates. Clearly, he's not at that level yet. He needs confidence.


Brown's problem is that everything works off his shot. That's how he gets the closeout, allowing him to put it on the floor for a dribble or two, draw another defender, and make a pass. He does not have a creative skill set. Everything comes from the shot.

And right now, he is simply second guessing that, as rookies often do faced with the speed increase in the NBA. He's passing up his shot, or shooting it with a mental hitch first. Thus it doesn't fall, and the closeout becomes softer, and he has no driving lane. As I said, he doesn't create off the dribble, so unlike a Randle or Clarkson or even Jabari, he can't get it going other ways, and must rely on his shot to open things up, yet he's too timid there.

He simply needs to go spend some time in the D league being able to hoist his shot and build confidence in it, and then bring that back to the parent club. Until he's willing to let it fly immediately when open, he will struggle.


Bear in mind that the guy who Brown resembles really closely, both in terms of height/build/length and measurables like speed and vertical, is Danny Green. Danny Green was damn near useless his first year in the league, and fairly useless in year two. Both guys had much the same issues to overcome, but Brown actually is ahead in the shot department.


Does Danny Green look more athletic to you than Brown from what you have seen? Just curious...


Now yes. As a rookie? No.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2015 5:38 pm    Post subject:

32 wrote:
It's too bad we haven't seen Huertas play in pre season games. He is likely out tomorrow again with the hamstring. I guess him missing most of the pre season games probably won't effect him from making the roster.


Nope, he's not really on the bubble much at all considering he's under contract and is really the only veteran on this roster who can be considered a "true" PG so to speak.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2015 5:48 pm    Post subject:

crackadon wrote:
ok, i have my four players at this point: Holmes, Frazier, J. Brown and Sacre

i would be really disappointed if Huertas, Upshaw and even Metta got cut tbh


I agree: Holmes, Frazier, J. Brown and Sacre
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2015 6:44 pm    Post subject:

24 wrote:
32 wrote:
It's too bad we haven't seen Huertas play in pre season games. He is likely out tomorrow again with the hamstring. I guess him missing most of the pre season games probably won't effect him from making the roster.


Huertas with the "they can't cut me if they can't evaluate me" strategy.


lol, he's the kid at the back of the class who hopes he doesn't get noticed.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2015 6:47 pm    Post subject:

Cut day is hard, because you are not just competing against the player on your team... You are competing against, some pretty good players from other teams that are getting cut just because of the numbers game.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2015 6:49 pm    Post subject:

The Logo wrote:
I honestly thought Holmes played well enough in the Toronto game to warrant him another look. Frazier is capable enough of bringing the ball up the floor, but I'd like to see him with another ball handler who can get him open shots before making a decision on him.


I hope Holmes gets extended minutes next game to properly get to show his wares. He has potential but how much and to what extent does he fit our needs is still unknown.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2015 6:56 pm    Post subject:

Quote:
Danny Green was damn near useless his first year in the league


I remember Green out of UNC. Activity and Defense. That's it. The activity was not an issue. However, he didn't show the same level of offensive versatility as Anthony Brown did during his 5th year.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2015 7:23 pm    Post subject:

markjay wrote:
crackadon wrote:
ok, i have my four players at this point: Holmes, Frazier, J. Brown and Sacre

i would be really disappointed if Huertas, Upshaw and even Metta got cut tbh


I agree: Holmes, Frazier, J. Brown and Sacre
yup
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2015 8:10 pm    Post subject:

s_habe wrote:
LaxT wrote:

Before the preseason began, I assumed the following four to be cut: Upshaw, J. Brown, Holmes, Frazier.

Has anyone shown enough for a 2nd thought? Holmes and Frazier surely does not. Jabari is caught in a number's game and he is not going to beat JC, Kobe, Lou or Swaggy.

Now, how about Upshaw over one of MWP, Black or Sacre? Unknown over known. That is the roster question.

A look of the depth, in no particular order.

1. Russell, Huertas, Lou, JC
2. JC, Kobe, Lou
3. Kobe, A. Brown, Young, MWP
4. Randle, Bass, Nance, Kelly, Black
5. Hibbert, Black, Sacre

I actually like the balance (young and veteran, small and big, speed and half court) of this team. If healthy, they can surprise a lot of people.

Cause the coaches plan the D scheme with an intimidating big in the middle, I would like to see what Upshaw can do. Sorry Black.


Thes few games into the season I think J. Brown, Frazier and MWP have made the strongest run to be cut. J. Brown has a tunnel vision. Frazier should be sent to D-League and kept an eye on. Maybe he'll develop.
MWP is too slow to play in the NBA. He was slow when he was amnestyed. And he shoots as bad as then. He might be worth to keep as a coach, but as a player he is done.

The fight for a final place to be cut continues among Sacre, Upshaw, Holmes. Runners up are Black and A.Brown.


I think the team wants to keep MWP. If he would accept a development coach job for far less money, Upshaw could stay.

Cut MWP, Holmes, Frazier, Jabari.

Upshaw has not shown much, but having an elite rim protector for 48 minutes (Hibbert+ Upshaw) is too tempting to not give it a try.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2015 8:23 pm    Post subject:

LaxT wrote:
s_habe wrote:
LaxT wrote:

Before the preseason began, I assumed the following four to be cut: Upshaw, J. Brown, Holmes, Frazier.

Has anyone shown enough for a 2nd thought? Holmes and Frazier surely does not. Jabari is caught in a number's game and he is not going to beat JC, Kobe, Lou or Swaggy.

Now, how about Upshaw over one of MWP, Black or Sacre? Unknown over known. That is the roster question.

A look of the depth, in no particular order.

1. Russell, Huertas, Lou, JC
2. JC, Kobe, Lou
3. Kobe, A. Brown, Young, MWP
4. Randle, Bass, Nance, Kelly, Black
5. Hibbert, Black, Sacre

I actually like the balance (young and veteran, small and big, speed and half court) of this team. If healthy, they can surprise a lot of people.

Cause the coaches plan the D scheme with an intimidating big in the middle, I would like to see what Upshaw can do. Sorry Black.


Thes few games into the season I think J. Brown, Frazier and MWP have made the strongest run to be cut. J. Brown has a tunnel vision. Frazier should be sent to D-League and kept an eye on. Maybe he'll develop.
MWP is too slow to play in the NBA. He was slow when he was amnestyed. And he shoots as bad as then. He might be worth to keep as a coach, but as a player he is done.

The fight for a final place to be cut continues among Sacre, Upshaw, Holmes. Runners up are Black and A.Brown.


I think the team wants to keep MWP. If he would accept a development coach job for far less money, Upshaw could stay.

Cut MWP, Holmes, Frazier, Jabari.

Upshaw has not shown much, but having an elite rim protector for 48 minutes (Hibbert+ Upshaw) is too tempting to not give it a try.
I get the feeling if they cut Upshaw someone will definitely pick him up. He has potential, not sure where he was rated in college but he had what 4 blocks in college game? That's a lot to average.
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