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evetssteve10
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Joined: 10 Nov 2004
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 Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2015 3:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Nightwalker wrote: | | tolivendiewithLA wrote: | | evetssteve10 wrote: | | tolivendiewithLA wrote: | | evetssteve10 wrote: | At least Jalen Rose and SAS came out and basically said they are glad they weren't included in this because ESPN are a bunch of morons, so at least a few people in the media get the bias going on.
Yea that was histarical when Abbot said even when Kobe was like the 3rd best player ( you mean best player for about 12-15 years right abbott) it was more like the 5th best hahahaha. |
What's even funnier about what Abbott said is he used win shares and wins as a barometer to show Kobe's true on court value for that 5th best ranking. Umm Kobe's the winningest player since he entered the league Abbott. Forget Duncan never missing the playoffs, Kobe has 5 Titles and 7 Conference Titles that's the most winning of any NBA player since he entered the league. Not to mention I love that reddit breakdown showing Kobe has had the toughest playoff schedule yet still 5 and 7 knocking out 24 50 win teams the most of any player ever. |
It is, it's laughable. and its because of the clear bias that ESPN has that Kobes fan base IS the way that it is and will defend their guy, because he's the greatest player of the last 20 years and he gets crapped on constantly. When he's talked about as being one of the best ever it's almost as an afterthought. Like "yea I know Kobe is one of the best ever... But..."
There's also this idea that a Kobe fan can't be a Laker fan. I am very strongly both things. I just know what Kobe means to this franchise and know how good he is - I appreciate what he still brings to the table. I don't think the Lakers are better without him, at least not yet. |
Oh don't buy into that BS, it was drummed up by non-Laker fans. Pretty much every friend, everyone I know who grew up a Lakers fan is a Kobe fan. You only find those weird Laker fan yet non-Kobe fans on the internet. |
Well during early 2000's Kobe vs. Shaq feud was fresh in LA some of the fans picked a side and stayed with that player while bad mouthing the other not all Lakers fans did this but some. I remember this happening it's still fresh in my mind today. |
I also find it amusing that Abbott says Kobe is a good scorer and mentioned Carmelo in the same breath. As if all Kobe does is put up points. Sure, it's what he does best but when a player is literally the ONLY HUMAN to achieve 30k6k6k I never want to ever hear about him being a volume scorer solely. In fact, part of Kobes greatness IS his all around dominance of the game from defense to court vision to footwork. Where this idea comes from that he just puts up points is so beyond me I have no idea what these idiots have been watching for the last 20 years. Obviously not the Lakers.
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"Bryant has been the second best player in the NBA for over a decade, but the number 1 player changes every other year. Somehow the number 1 player always seems to fall down the list but Kobe just never moves up. ". The Art of Hating Kobe Bryant |
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Nightwalker
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Joined: 09 May 2013
Posts: 2739
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| Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2015 3:17 pm Post subject: |
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| evetssteve10 wrote: | | Nightwalker wrote: | | tolivendiewithLA wrote: | | evetssteve10 wrote: | | tolivendiewithLA wrote: | | evetssteve10 wrote: | At least Jalen Rose and SAS came out and basically said they are glad they weren't included in this because ESPN are a bunch of morons, so at least a few people in the media get the bias going on.
Yea that was histarical when Abbot said even when Kobe was like the 3rd best player ( you mean best player for about 12-15 years right abbott) it was more like the 5th best hahahaha. |
What's even funnier about what Abbott said is he used win shares and wins as a barometer to show Kobe's true on court value for that 5th best ranking. Umm Kobe's the winningest player since he entered the league Abbott. Forget Duncan never missing the playoffs, Kobe has 5 Titles and 7 Conference Titles that's the most winning of any NBA player since he entered the league. Not to mention I love that reddit breakdown showing Kobe has had the toughest playoff schedule yet still 5 and 7 knocking out 24 50 win teams the most of any player ever. |
It is, it's laughable. and its because of the clear bias that ESPN has that Kobes fan base IS the way that it is and will defend their guy, because he's the greatest player of the last 20 years and he gets crapped on constantly. When he's talked about as being one of the best ever it's almost as an afterthought. Like "yea I know Kobe is one of the best ever... But..."
There's also this idea that a Kobe fan can't be a Laker fan. I am very strongly both things. I just know what Kobe means to this franchise and know how good he is - I appreciate what he still brings to the table. I don't think the Lakers are better without him, at least not yet. |
Oh don't buy into that BS, it was drummed up by non-Laker fans. Pretty much every friend, everyone I know who grew up a Lakers fan is a Kobe fan. You only find those weird Laker fan yet non-Kobe fans on the internet. |
Well during early 2000's Kobe vs. Shaq feud was fresh in LA some of the fans picked a side and stayed with that player while bad mouthing the other not all Lakers fans did this but some. I remember this happening it's still fresh in my mind today. |
I also find it amusing that Abbott says Kobe is a good scorer and mentioned Carmelo in the same breath. As if all Kobe does is put up points. Sure, it's what he does best but when a player is literally the ONLY HUMAN to achieve 30k6k6k I never want to ever hear about him being a volume scorer solely. In fact, part of Kobes greatness IS his all around dominance of the game from defense to court vision to footwork. Where this idea comes from that he just puts up points is so beyond me I have no idea what these idiots have been watching for the last 20 years. Obviously not the Lakers. |
Kobe is not only one of greatest scorers ever top three to me but was great passer, terrific defender, good playmaker, good rebounding for SG, god like first step (early days), amazing footwork and fundamentals that very few have had in history the players on that level are Jordan and Hakeem in that department. |
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RCS926
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Joined: 05 Nov 2003
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| Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2015 3:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Kobe gave them a lot of ammo last season, but that doesn't take away from the fact that he's still a historically great all-around player. I'm just really hoping that Kobe shows a side of his game this season that not many people are expecting. I know that he doesn't care what the pundits say, but I don't want him to be seen as a gunslinger who refused to let go of the glory days. As skillful as he is, Kobe can still be a great player without being the force of nature that he once was. |
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evetssteve10
Star Player
Joined: 10 Nov 2004
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| Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2015 3:29 pm Post subject: |
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| RCS926 wrote: | | Kobe gave them a lot of ammo last season, but that doesn't take away from the fact that he's still a historically great all-around player. I'm just really hoping that Kobe shows a side of his game this season that not many people are expecting. I know that he doesn't care what the pundits say, but I don't want him to be seen as a gunslinger who refused to let go of the glory days. As skillful as he is, Kobe can still be a great player without being the force of nature that he once was. |
I have a feeling Kobe is going to absolutely shock a lot of people this year. And ur right, Kobe had a bad year last year - which is pretty remarkable because it was really his only bad year he's ever had. And I truly think it had more to do with his shoulder/injuries than anything else.
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"Bryant has been the second best player in the NBA for over a decade, but the number 1 player changes every other year. Somehow the number 1 player always seems to fall down the list but Kobe just never moves up. ". The Art of Hating Kobe Bryant |
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deal
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| Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2015 3:32 pm Post subject: |
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I think it best to leave Kobe out of the ranking, as he's
a surprise whichever way the seasons works out for him.
It's better than ranking him in the 90's, 20's or 10's...
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Lakers need to build a freaking team ! |
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RCS926
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Joined: 05 Nov 2003
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| Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2015 3:39 pm Post subject: |
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| evetssteve10 wrote: | | RCS926 wrote: | | Kobe gave them a lot of ammo last season, but that doesn't take away from the fact that he's still a historically great all-around player. I'm just really hoping that Kobe shows a side of his game this season that not many people are expecting. I know that he doesn't care what the pundits say, but I don't want him to be seen as a gunslinger who refused to let go of the glory days. As skillful as he is, Kobe can still be a great player without being the force of nature that he once was. |
I have a feeling Kobe is going to absolutely shock a lot of people this year. And ur right, Kobe had a bad year last year - which is pretty remarkable because it was really his only bad year he's ever had. And I truly think it had more to do with his shoulder/injuries than anything else. |
The injury certainly affected his ability to shoot efficiently. However, his mindset wasn't right either. He played with a chip on his shoulder in terms of wanting to prove all the naysayers wrong. It didn't help that he had no confidence in his teammates, which many would argue was a justifiable position. Still, his play was downright putrid at times. I'm glad that he ended the season playing more efficiently and assumed the role of facilitator. However, he really should've made that switch much earlier. The season was lost early, and I think he just didn't give a damn. He was going to do what he wanted to do.
With that being said, this is a new season and a new team with a lot more talent. I think he has a different mindset regarding his teammates as well as his own abilities. I, too, think he's going to surprise a lot of people who are expecting to see a washed up gunner who doesn't know that the game has passed him by. I'm very encouraged by what I've see thus far in the preseason. |
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evetssteve10
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Joined: 10 Nov 2004
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| Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2015 4:15 pm Post subject: |
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| RCS926 wrote: | | evetssteve10 wrote: | | RCS926 wrote: | | Kobe gave them a lot of ammo last season, but that doesn't take away from the fact that he's still a historically great all-around player. I'm just really hoping that Kobe shows a side of his game this season that not many people are expecting. I know that he doesn't care what the pundits say, but I don't want him to be seen as a gunslinger who refused to let go of the glory days. As skillful as he is, Kobe can still be a great player without being the force of nature that he once was. |
I have a feeling Kobe is going to absolutely shock a lot of people this year. And ur right, Kobe had a bad year last year - which is pretty remarkable because it was really his only bad year he's ever had. And I truly think it had more to do with his shoulder/injuries than anything else. |
The injury certainly affected his ability to shoot efficiently. However, his mindset wasn't right either. He played with a chip on his shoulder in terms of wanting to prove all the naysayers wrong. It didn't help that he had no confidence in his teammates, which many would argue was a justifiable position. Still, his play was downright putrid at times. I'm glad that he ended the season playing more efficiently and assumed the role of facilitator. However, he really should've made that switch much earlier. The season was lost early, and I think he just didn't give a damn. He was going to do what he wanted to do.
With that being said, this is a new season and a new team with a lot more talent. I think he has a different mindset regarding his teammates as well as his own abilities. I, too, think he's going to surprise a lot of people who are expecting to see a washed up gunner who doesn't know that the game has passed him by. I'm very encouraged by what I've see thus far in the preseason. |
Gosh it's so refreshing to see there's still people like you around
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"Bryant has been the second best player in the NBA for over a decade, but the number 1 player changes every other year. Somehow the number 1 player always seems to fall down the list but Kobe just never moves up. ". The Art of Hating Kobe Bryant |
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petergr
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| Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2015 5:00 pm Post subject: |
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Why did they not rank him in top 5...I cannot believe it  |
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novadolla
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Joined: 17 Apr 2011
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| Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2015 9:02 pm Post subject: |
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| So there are 92 player better than KOBE right now? Dumb ass rankings. Then the idiot bayless says its about "what have you done for me lately". Well what have Carmelo, Durant etc done? They've all been injured and were playing at a high level. The hate is unreal. |
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Nightwalker
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Joined: 09 May 2013
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| Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2015 9:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Yup Kobe still looks pretty good to me he still can be very good player when healthy. |
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Nightwalker
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| Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2015 9:09 pm Post subject: |
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| novadolla wrote: | | So there are 92 player better than KOBE right now? Dumb ass rankings. Then the idiot bayless says its about "what have you done for me lately". Well what have Carmelo, Durant etc done? They've all been injured and were playing at a high level. The hate is unreal. |
That's what happens when media has agenda towards an athlete being unbiased and neutral is thrown out the window. |
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Aeneas Hunter
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Joined: 12 Jul 2005
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| Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2015 8:32 am Post subject: |
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| novadolla wrote: | | So there are 92 player better than KOBE right now? Dumb ass rankings. Then the idiot bayless says its about "what have you done for me lately". Well what have Carmelo, Durant etc done? They've all been injured and were playing at a high level. The hate is unreal. |
Eh. Kobe has played 41 games in two years and wasn't very effective when he did play. During the same time period, Durant won an MVP and then played fairly well before his injury. I think Carmelo is overrated, but he played 117 games and was more productive than Kobe.
Kobe's rating isn't a product of media bias. I'd have a hard time rating him much higher. If he is healthy, his ceiling is a lot higher than 93rd. I don't think anyone in the media would dispute that. But based on the last two seasons, what is the reasonable expectation for Kobe? Let's keep our fingers crossed.
As for Abbott, his Kobe stuff got annoying long ago. I have no problem with people who think that Kobe wasn't the best player in the league at one point. There is no objective standard for these sorts of things. It all depends on what you value. But Abbott loves beating a dead horse. |
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evetssteve10
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Joined: 10 Nov 2004
Posts: 3099
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| Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2015 9:38 am Post subject: |
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| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | novadolla wrote: | | So there are 92 player better than KOBE right now? Dumb ass rankings. Then the idiot bayless says its about "what have you done for me lately". Well what have Carmelo, Durant etc done? They've all been injured and were playing at a high level. The hate is unreal. |
Eh. Kobe has played 41 games in two years and wasn't very effective when he did play. During the same time period, Durant won an MVP and then played fairly well before his injury. I think Carmelo is overrated, but he played 117 games and was more productive than Kobe.
Kobe's rating isn't a product of media bias. I'd have a hard time rating him much higher. If he is healthy, his ceiling is a lot higher than 93rd. I don't think anyone in the media would dispute that. But based on the last two seasons, what is the reasonable expectation for Kobe? Let's keep our fingers crossed.
As for Abbott, his Kobe stuff got annoying long ago. I have no problem with people who think that Kobe wasn't the best player in the league at one point. There is no objective standard for these sorts of things. It all depends on what you value. But Abbott loves beating a dead horse. |
Come on don't be silly, if it were JUST the rankings alone you might have something about there not being a media bias but when you add together all the horrible articles written about him it's clear what it is. I mean there is literally an article that was just posted today about how Kobe basically says he doesn't want to talk about the silly rankings and the headline is "Kobe calls ESPN rankings "silly" ... Or something like that and basically goes on a rant about why he's 93.... After all he does is say he doesn't want to answer questions about it....
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"Bryant has been the second best player in the NBA for over a decade, but the number 1 player changes every other year. Somehow the number 1 player always seems to fall down the list but Kobe just never moves up. ". The Art of Hating Kobe Bryant |
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Rugbar
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Joined: 14 Nov 2014
Posts: 203
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| Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2015 12:54 pm Post subject: |
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Oh, those meanies at ESPN! How dare they use advanced stats to say that Kobe isn't a top player! The national media is out to get Kobe and the Lakers! Just because we're paranoid doesn't mean we're wrong! Wah! Wah!
OK, forget a fancy pants advanced stat like RPM to gauge Kobe's value last year (which put him at 301). Look instead at last year's lineup combination plus-minuses. Here's a link to them at Basketball Reference:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/LAL/2015/lineups/
Look at Kobe's lineup stats. (Click on the "pts" tab to rank them in order.) Not a single one of his two-player, three-player, four-player or five-player lineup combinations was positive. Only one (with Boozer, Lin, Sacre and Young) was better than the team average. And it wasn't better by much and only logged 37 minutes.
If you hid the names of the players and instead labeled Kobe "player A" and asked for an assessment of him, objective observers would rate him as well below average on the team.
I think he is better than those stats show him to be. But the idea that Abbott is misusing advanced stats in some sort of witch hunt against Kobe is just plain silly. Based on his performance last year when he was on the court (forget about his injury track record), Kobe wasn't close to being in the top 100 in the league. But if it makes you feel better to think that Kobe and the Lakers are the victims of some ESPN conspiracy to get more clicks, go ahead and think that. Go ahead and call anyone that tries look at his performance rationally a troll. |
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evetssteve10
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Joined: 10 Nov 2004
Posts: 3099
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| Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2015 1:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Rugbar wrote: | Oh, those meanies at ESPN! How dare they use advanced stats to say that Kobe isn't a top player! The national media is out to get Kobe and the Lakers! Just because we're paranoid doesn't mean we're wrong! Wah! Wah!
OK, forget a fancy pants advanced stat like RPM to gauge Kobe's value last year (which put him at 301). Look instead at last year's lineup combination plus-minuses. Here's a link to them at Basketball Reference:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/LAL/2015/lineups/
Look at Kobe's lineup stats. (Click on the "pts" tab to rank them in order.) Not a single one of his two-player, three-player, four-player or five-player lineup combinations was positive. Only one (with Boozer, Lin, Sacre and Young) was better than the team average. And it wasn't better by much and only logged 37 minutes.
If you hid the names of the players and instead labeled Kobe "player A" and asked for an assessment of him, objective observers would rate him as well below average on the team.
I think he is better than those stats show him to be. But the idea that Abbott is misusing advanced stats in some sort of witch hunt against Kobe is just plain silly. Based on his performance last year when he was on the court (forget about his injury track record), Kobe wasn't close to being in the top 100 in the league. But if it makes you feel better to think that Kobe and the Lakers are the victims of some ESPN conspiracy to get more clicks, go ahead and think that. Go ahead and call anyone that tries look at his performance rationally a troll. |
Lmao. So you think it's far fetched that ESPN would use Kobes name to get clicks? As if they are above that kind of thing right? If they are above that kind of thing, then why do they keep regurging the same 2 articles about Kobe every 3-4 months? It's so bad that they posted an article today based around Kobe being asked about being ranked number 93 that he essentially said "no comment" to. So that was no attempt whatsoever on their behalf of getting clicks right?
Also, what's your excuse for Abbots breakdown on Kobe over the entire course of his career where he said at no point was Kobe better than the 5th best player in the league. Yes you're right, he's completely objective and has absolutely no bias whatsoever.
_________________
"Bryant has been the second best player in the NBA for over a decade, but the number 1 player changes every other year. Somehow the number 1 player always seems to fall down the list but Kobe just never moves up. ". The Art of Hating Kobe Bryant
Last edited by evetssteve10 on Fri Oct 09, 2015 1:08 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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ringfinger
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Joined: 08 Oct 2013
Posts: 29418
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| Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2015 1:08 pm Post subject: |
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| evetssteve10 wrote: | | Rugbar wrote: | Oh, those meanies at ESPN! How dare they use advanced stats to say that Kobe isn't a top player! The national media is out to get Kobe and the Lakers! Just because we're paranoid doesn't mean we're wrong! Wah! Wah!
OK, forget a fancy pants advanced stat like RPM to gauge Kobe's value last year (which put him at 301). Look instead at last year's lineup combination plus-minuses. Here's a link to them at Basketball Reference:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/LAL/2015/lineups/
Look at Kobe's lineup stats. (Click on the "pts" tab to rank them in order.) Not a single one of his two-player, three-player, four-player or five-player lineup combinations was positive. Only one (with Boozer, Lin, Sacre and Young) was better than the team average. And it wasn't better by much and only logged 37 minutes.
If you hid the names of the players and instead labeled Kobe "player A" and asked for an assessment of him, objective observers would rate him as well below average on the team.
I think he is better than those stats show him to be. But the idea that Abbott is misusing advanced stats in some sort of witch hunt against Kobe is just plain silly. Based on his performance last year when he was on the court (forget about his injury track record), Kobe wasn't close to being in the top 100 in the league. But if it makes you feel better to think that Kobe and the Lakers are the victims of some ESPN conspiracy to get more clicks, go ahead and think that. Go ahead and call anyone that tries look at his performance rationally a troll. |
Lmao. So you think it's far fetched that ESPN would use Kobes name to get clicks? As if they are above that kind of thing right? If they are above that kind of thing, then why do they keep regurging the same 2 articles about Kobe every 3-4 months?
Also, what's your excuse for Abbots breakdown on Kobe over the entire course of his career where he said at no point was Kobe better than the 5th best player in the league. Yes you're right, he's completely objective and has absolutely no bias whatsoever. |
People here said the same old thing about ESPN's predictions on where we'd finish every year for the last whatever years.
And they've been overly optimistic.
So they love the Lakers, but hate Kobe? I mean, it's so silly. ESPN is not a person. |
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evetssteve10
Star Player
Joined: 10 Nov 2004
Posts: 3099
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| Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2015 1:09 pm Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | evetssteve10 wrote: | | Rugbar wrote: | Oh, those meanies at ESPN! How dare they use advanced stats to say that Kobe isn't a top player! The national media is out to get Kobe and the Lakers! Just because we're paranoid doesn't mean we're wrong! Wah! Wah!
OK, forget a fancy pants advanced stat like RPM to gauge Kobe's value last year (which put him at 301). Look instead at last year's lineup combination plus-minuses. Here's a link to them at Basketball Reference:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/LAL/2015/lineups/
Look at Kobe's lineup stats. (Click on the "pts" tab to rank them in order.) Not a single one of his two-player, three-player, four-player or five-player lineup combinations was positive. Only one (with Boozer, Lin, Sacre and Young) was better than the team average. And it wasn't better by much and only logged 37 minutes.
If you hid the names of the players and instead labeled Kobe "player A" and asked for an assessment of him, objective observers would rate him as well below average on the team.
I think he is better than those stats show him to be. But the idea that Abbott is misusing advanced stats in some sort of witch hunt against Kobe is just plain silly. Based on his performance last year when he was on the court (forget about his injury track record), Kobe wasn't close to being in the top 100 in the league. But if it makes you feel better to think that Kobe and the Lakers are the victims of some ESPN conspiracy to get more clicks, go ahead and think that. Go ahead and call anyone that tries look at his performance rationally a troll. |
Lmao. So you think it's far fetched that ESPN would use Kobes name to get clicks? As if they are above that kind of thing right? If they are above that kind of thing, then why do they keep regurging the same 2 articles about Kobe every 3-4 months?
Also, what's your excuse for Abbots breakdown on Kobe over the entire course of his career where he said at no point was Kobe better than the 5th best player in the league. Yes you're right, he's completely objective and has absolutely no bias whatsoever. |
People here said the same old thing about ESPN's predictions on where we'd finish every year for the last whatever years.
And they've been overly optimistic.
So they love the Lakers, but hate Kobe? I mean, it's so silly. ESPN is not a person. |
You're right, ESPN does not have humans writing their articles, it's objective robots. Thank you for breaking that one down for us.
_________________
"Bryant has been the second best player in the NBA for over a decade, but the number 1 player changes every other year. Somehow the number 1 player always seems to fall down the list but Kobe just never moves up. ". The Art of Hating Kobe Bryant |
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ringfinger
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Joined: 08 Oct 2013
Posts: 29418
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| Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2015 1:11 pm Post subject: |
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| evetssteve10 wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | evetssteve10 wrote: | | Rugbar wrote: | Oh, those meanies at ESPN! How dare they use advanced stats to say that Kobe isn't a top player! The national media is out to get Kobe and the Lakers! Just because we're paranoid doesn't mean we're wrong! Wah! Wah!
OK, forget a fancy pants advanced stat like RPM to gauge Kobe's value last year (which put him at 301). Look instead at last year's lineup combination plus-minuses. Here's a link to them at Basketball Reference:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/LAL/2015/lineups/
Look at Kobe's lineup stats. (Click on the "pts" tab to rank them in order.) Not a single one of his two-player, three-player, four-player or five-player lineup combinations was positive. Only one (with Boozer, Lin, Sacre and Young) was better than the team average. And it wasn't better by much and only logged 37 minutes.
If you hid the names of the players and instead labeled Kobe "player A" and asked for an assessment of him, objective observers would rate him as well below average on the team.
I think he is better than those stats show him to be. But the idea that Abbott is misusing advanced stats in some sort of witch hunt against Kobe is just plain silly. Based on his performance last year when he was on the court (forget about his injury track record), Kobe wasn't close to being in the top 100 in the league. But if it makes you feel better to think that Kobe and the Lakers are the victims of some ESPN conspiracy to get more clicks, go ahead and think that. Go ahead and call anyone that tries look at his performance rationally a troll. |
Lmao. So you think it's far fetched that ESPN would use Kobes name to get clicks? As if they are above that kind of thing right? If they are above that kind of thing, then why do they keep regurging the same 2 articles about Kobe every 3-4 months?
Also, what's your excuse for Abbots breakdown on Kobe over the entire course of his career where he said at no point was Kobe better than the 5th best player in the league. Yes you're right, he's completely objective and has absolutely no bias whatsoever. |
People here said the same old thing about ESPN's predictions on where we'd finish every year for the last whatever years.
And they've been overly optimistic.
So they love the Lakers, but hate Kobe? I mean, it's so silly. ESPN is not a person. |
You're right, ESPN does not have humans writing their articles, it's objective robots. Thank you for breaking that one down for us. |
ESPN loves the Lakers. Look at their predictions the past few years. At least it loves us. |
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evetssteve10
Star Player
Joined: 10 Nov 2004
Posts: 3099
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| Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2015 2:16 pm Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | evetssteve10 wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | evetssteve10 wrote: | | Rugbar wrote: | Oh, those meanies at ESPN! How dare they use advanced stats to say that Kobe isn't a top player! The national media is out to get Kobe and the Lakers! Just because we're paranoid doesn't mean we're wrong! Wah! Wah!
OK, forget a fancy pants advanced stat like RPM to gauge Kobe's value last year (which put him at 301). Look instead at last year's lineup combination plus-minuses. Here's a link to them at Basketball Reference:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/LAL/2015/lineups/
Look at Kobe's lineup stats. (Click on the "pts" tab to rank them in order.) Not a single one of his two-player, three-player, four-player or five-player lineup combinations was positive. Only one (with Boozer, Lin, Sacre and Young) was better than the team average. And it wasn't better by much and only logged 37 minutes.
If you hid the names of the players and instead labeled Kobe "player A" and asked for an assessment of him, objective observers would rate him as well below average on the team.
I think he is better than those stats show him to be. But the idea that Abbott is misusing advanced stats in some sort of witch hunt against Kobe is just plain silly. Based on his performance last year when he was on the court (forget about his injury track record), Kobe wasn't close to being in the top 100 in the league. But if it makes you feel better to think that Kobe and the Lakers are the victims of some ESPN conspiracy to get more clicks, go ahead and think that. Go ahead and call anyone that tries look at his performance rationally a troll. |
Lmao. So you think it's far fetched that ESPN would use Kobes name to get clicks? As if they are above that kind of thing right? If they are above that kind of thing, then why do they keep regurging the same 2 articles about Kobe every 3-4 months?
Also, what's your excuse for Abbots breakdown on Kobe over the entire course of his career where he said at no point was Kobe better than the 5th best player in the league. Yes you're right, he's completely objective and has absolutely no bias whatsoever. |
People here said the same old thing about ESPN's predictions on where we'd finish every year for the last whatever years.
And they've been overly optimistic.
So they love the Lakers, but hate Kobe? I mean, it's so silly. ESPN is not a person. |
You're right, ESPN does not have humans writing their articles, it's objective robots. Thank you for breaking that one down for us. |
ESPN loves the Lakers. Look at their predictions the past few years. At least it loves us. |
Didn't ESPN predict the lakers to finish like 2nd to last in the league this year? ESPN loves the money it makes from the Lakers and that's just about it. There's a couple writers and journalists and talking heads that like Kobe and the lakers but most of them are east coast bias and very negative about Kobe even when the dude was at his most dominant
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"Bryant has been the second best player in the NBA for over a decade, but the number 1 player changes every other year. Somehow the number 1 player always seems to fall down the list but Kobe just never moves up. ". The Art of Hating Kobe Bryant |
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ringfinger
Retired Number
Joined: 08 Oct 2013
Posts: 29418
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| Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2015 3:08 pm Post subject: |
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| evetssteve10 wrote: | | Didn't ESPN predict the lakers to finish like 2nd to last in the league this year? ESPN loves the money it makes from the Lakers and that's just about it. There's a couple writers and journalists and talking heads that like Kobe and the lakers but most of them are east coast bias and very negative about Kobe even when the dude was at his most dominant |
That doesn't change the fact that they've been overly optimistic on their predictions for us for the past half decade or so.
And overly optimistic on their ranking of Kobe for at least the last couple years as well.
So don't they love us? |
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Telleris
Star Player
Joined: 28 May 2013
Posts: 2371
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| Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2015 3:30 pm Post subject: |
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| evetssteve10 wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | evetssteve10 wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | evetssteve10 wrote: | | Rugbar wrote: | Oh, those meanies at ESPN! How dare they use advanced stats to say that Kobe isn't a top player! The national media is out to get Kobe and the Lakers! Just because we're paranoid doesn't mean we're wrong! Wah! Wah!
OK, forget a fancy pants advanced stat like RPM to gauge Kobe's value last year (which put him at 301). Look instead at last year's lineup combination plus-minuses. Here's a link to them at Basketball Reference:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/LAL/2015/lineups/
Look at Kobe's lineup stats. (Click on the "pts" tab to rank them in order.) Not a single one of his two-player, three-player, four-player or five-player lineup combinations was positive. Only one (with Boozer, Lin, Sacre and Young) was better than the team average. And it wasn't better by much and only logged 37 minutes.
If you hid the names of the players and instead labeled Kobe "player A" and asked for an assessment of him, objective observers would rate him as well below average on the team.
I think he is better than those stats show him to be. But the idea that Abbott is misusing advanced stats in some sort of witch hunt against Kobe is just plain silly. Based on his performance last year when he was on the court (forget about his injury track record), Kobe wasn't close to being in the top 100 in the league. But if it makes you feel better to think that Kobe and the Lakers are the victims of some ESPN conspiracy to get more clicks, go ahead and think that. Go ahead and call anyone that tries look at his performance rationally a troll. |
Lmao. So you think it's far fetched that ESPN would use Kobes name to get clicks? As if they are above that kind of thing right? If they are above that kind of thing, then why do they keep regurging the same 2 articles about Kobe every 3-4 months?
Also, what's your excuse for Abbots breakdown on Kobe over the entire course of his career where he said at no point was Kobe better than the 5th best player in the league. Yes you're right, he's completely objective and has absolutely no bias whatsoever. |
People here said the same old thing about ESPN's predictions on where we'd finish every year for the last whatever years.
And they've been overly optimistic.
So they love the Lakers, but hate Kobe? I mean, it's so silly. ESPN is not a person. |
You're right, ESPN does not have humans writing their articles, it's objective robots. Thank you for breaking that one down for us. |
ESPN loves the Lakers. Look at their predictions the past few years. At least it loves us. |
Didn't ESPN predict the lakers to finish like 2nd to last in the league this year? ESPN loves the money it makes from the Lakers and that's just about it. There's a couple writers and journalists and talking heads that like Kobe and the lakers but most of them are east coast bias and very negative about Kobe even when the dude was at his most dominant |
ESPN has a disproportionate number of pro Lakers (and Knicks) writers because of their offices and the fan bases, but at the same time, completely polarizing the opposite views is part of the money making process. There's simply no middle ground because being reasonable doesn't make any money in the entertainment business.
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I believe everything the media tells me except for anything for which I have direct personal knowledge, which they always get wrong |
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Aeneas Hunter
Retired Number
Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 31763
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| Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2015 5:12 pm Post subject: |
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| evetssteve10 wrote: | | Come on don't be silly, if it were JUST the rankings alone you might have something about there not being a media bias but when you add together all the horrible articles written about him it's clear what it is. I mean there is literally an article that was just posted today about how Kobe basically says he doesn't want to talk about the silly rankings and the headline is "Kobe calls ESPN rankings "silly" ... Or something like that and basically goes on a rant about why he's 93.... After all he does is say he doesn't want to answer questions about it.... |
This makes me shake my head. There are people who complain endlessly about ESPN . . . based on the stuff they saw by watching it or reading the website.
Anyway, i looked up that article. Sure enough, Baxter Holmes. I'm surprised that he hasn't gotten run off yet. He annoys the heck out of me. |
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cthroatgtr
Star Player
Joined: 21 Aug 2005
Posts: 1375
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| Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2015 5:20 pm Post subject: |
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Kobe still draws a ton of attention. Lakers were far better with him than without him last year. His shot was way off last year and I have to believe the shoulder was messed up long before the dunk attempt. Yes he is old and slowed down a ton, but still is the Lakers best player at the moment. Perhaps one of the young guns will pass him, but as an all around player, still has all the skills just none of the quickness.
If he stays healthy, the year will be better than last. Will be interesting to see if Byron gets stupid again and over uses him, but the talent is still there. |
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