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sonic the laker Star Player
Joined: 06 Oct 2013 Posts: 2061
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Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2015 5:08 pm Post subject: |
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greenfrog wrote: | so much for not clicking on it... |
lol DAMN, HUMAN CURIOSITY!!!! DAMN, DAMN, DAAAMMMNNNN!!!!!!!
Anything with "Kobe" in the title is like drawing moths to a flame, bee's to honey, bears to picnic baskets, paddington bear to marmalade, etc etc etc.
ZOOM!!!!! |
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KBH Franchise Player
Joined: 13 Sep 2008 Posts: 12171
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Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2015 5:16 pm Post subject: |
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ringfinger wrote: | RCS926 wrote: | I understand what's being said. However, just because Kobe said something in the past doesn't mean it's written in stone. Kobe is going to end up invalidating his own comments about not wanting to play if he was only an 18-19 ppg player because that's exactly what he's going to be if he only ends up playing around 30 mpg. |
Ahhh. So the reason it is a hate piece, is because it assumed Kobe meant what he said. A real article, would have assumed what Kobe said was hogwash, assumed the opposite with no evidence or prior indications that the opposite would even actually occur since it has not since D'Angelo Russell was a sperm cell. |
A balanced article doesn't only present one viewpoint. The article is written in a sensationalist tone to drive clicks because they know people on both sides eat this stuff up. And as someone who has worked as a journalist, I can tell you how easy it is to have an angle for an article in my mind, speak to sources I know will support that position and ask leading questions to get the quotes I need.
Not a single lie was-or has to be-told but it's clear as day to anyone except someone wrapped up in lording his "objectivity" over others that this piece is written from a single perspective.
How do you think long feature/enterprise articles like this come about? An editor assigns a writer a topic and he spends months researching and writing it. So why do you think ESPN puts out an annual Kobe, his contract and his personality are causing the league's greatest franchise to crater? Because they know it drives clicks. Putting out a balanced piece regarding the Lakers, Kobe and the options both sides have isn't nearly as provocative.
Last edited by KBH on Wed Oct 07, 2015 5:35 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Team of the 80's Star Player
Joined: 03 Feb 2008 Posts: 6095 Location: Los Angeles
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Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2015 5:25 pm Post subject: |
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ESPN puts out its annual article bashing Kobe and the same suspects on LG bite. |
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ringfinger Retired Number
Joined: 08 Oct 2013 Posts: 29418
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Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2015 5:36 pm Post subject: |
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evetssteve10 wrote: | I would tell you it would have no barring whatsoever on his future pay that he may or may not get. And him talking about Dirk has nothing to do with what Kobe would do next year. Kobe has always been very pro-player in terms of contracts and doesn't think that players should have to succumb to pressure to take pay cuts, so he is always going to take that stance - but when he is 38 and looking to make one last run you have to agree it's a completely unique situation than what he is talking about and has always talked about |
Honestly, I think your position is perfectly reasonable. Despite what Kobe has said, I can envision a scenario in which Kobe would accept a reduced role and even a contract in line with that of a role player. (In fact, that is what I would want).
But isn't it also reasonable for someone to envision a scenario where he doesn't? He's made statements saying he wouldn't want to hang around scoring less than 20 PPG, and he's made multiple statements saying he wouldn't want to take a massive paycut (i.e. hometown discount). I guess I don't understand why only a hater would envision a scenario where he practices what he preaches. |
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ringfinger Retired Number
Joined: 08 Oct 2013 Posts: 29418
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Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2015 5:48 pm Post subject: |
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KBH wrote: | ringfinger wrote: | RCS926 wrote: | I understand what's being said. However, just because Kobe said something in the past doesn't mean it's written in stone. Kobe is going to end up invalidating his own comments about not wanting to play if he was only an 18-19 ppg player because that's exactly what he's going to be if he only ends up playing around 30 mpg. |
Ahhh. So the reason it is a hate piece, is because it assumed Kobe meant what he said. A real article, would have assumed what Kobe said was hogwash, assumed the opposite with no evidence or prior indications that the opposite would even actually occur since it has not since D'Angelo Russell was a sperm cell. |
A balanced article doesn't only present one viewpoint. The article is written in a sensationalist tone to drive clicks because they know people on both sides eat this stuff up. And as someone who has worked as a journalist, I can tell you how easy it is to have an angle for an article in my mind, speak to sources I know will support that position and ask leading questions to get the quotes I need.
Not a single lie was-or has to be-told but it's clear as day to anyone except someone wrapped up in lording his "objectivity" over others that this piece is written from a single perspective.
How do you think long feature/enterprise articles like this come about? An editor assigns a writer a topic and he spends months researching and writing it. So why do you think ESPN puts out an annual Kobe, his contract and his personality are causing the league's greatest franchise to crater? Because they know it drives clicks. Putting out a balanced piece regarding the Lakers, Kobe and the options both sides have isn't nearly as provocative. |
Just don't see anything overly egregious, and certainly not in the same vein as the Abbott piece by any stretch.
Completely get that it isn't a particularly pleasant read. But let's be honest. Not knowing what Kobe is going to do -- isn't particularly pleasant from an FO perspective.
There are a ton of question marks that have yet to be answered, and that's why articles like this are written. Is Kobe retiring? Can he stay healthy? Will he do what Phil suggested and play elsewhere? Should the Lakers just move on? How will Kobe play this year? Will he hinder the development of the young guys? Might he actually accept a significantly lesser role?
To me, it makes total sense that others within the league would say that the Lakers just need to move on. But that's a difficult proposition to consider given Kobe's history with the team. That's all the article is saying, and concluded as such.
Quote: | Setting themselves free of Bryant is an inevitable, albeit difficult, step forward on the Lakers' path to becoming contenders again, even if seeing him go might be a harsh reality for the franchise and for Lakers fans who want Kobe Bryant to wear purple and gold forever. |
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tolivendiewithLA Starting Rotation
Joined: 31 Oct 2014 Posts: 171
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Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2015 6:03 pm Post subject: |
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Complete agenda driven ridiculously transparent biased hit piece. The crap that gets written about Kobe on ESPN is like nothing I've ever seen before in the history of sports. The pieces seriously come off like personal hate. Like writers who grew up and watched for years hating Kobe have been waiting for his moment to be down so they could pounce, it's pathetic. ESPN hand picks writers, they hand pick the Lakers beat reporter Holmes (a Boston guy) to continue their Kobe hating narrative. They're trying to negatively influence his legacy, it's clear as can be. These "insiders" are a joke, unless you are clueless you know they're picking insiders who will feed into their narratives. And there are well known people whom could be regarded as "NBA insiders" who openly hate Kobe, openly admit it, how can that be taken seriously? This Baxter Holmes clown already did a follow up video with Henry Abbott where they act like they justify Kobe's 93rd in the NBA rank, yes that Henry Abbott. If you can't see the bias then you're just pretending to be a Laker fan. |
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Tony Anapolis Star Player
Joined: 05 Jan 2015 Posts: 3331
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Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2015 6:20 pm Post subject: |
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All I'm gonna say is Mamba looked good. |
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evetssteve10 Star Player
Joined: 10 Nov 2004 Posts: 3099
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Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2015 6:35 pm Post subject: |
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ringfinger wrote: | evetssteve10 wrote: | I would tell you it would have no barring whatsoever on his future pay that he may or may not get. And him talking about Dirk has nothing to do with what Kobe would do next year. Kobe has always been very pro-player in terms of contracts and doesn't think that players should have to succumb to pressure to take pay cuts, so he is always going to take that stance - but when he is 38 and looking to make one last run you have to agree it's a completely unique situation than what he is talking about and has always talked about |
Honestly, I think your position is perfectly reasonable. Despite what Kobe has said, I can envision a scenario in which Kobe would accept a reduced role and even a contract in line with that of a role player. (In fact, that is what I would want).
But isn't it also reasonable for someone to envision a scenario where he doesn't? He's made statements saying he wouldn't want to hang around scoring less than 20 PPG, and he's made multiple statements saying he wouldn't want to take a massive paycut (i.e. hometown discount). I guess I don't understand why only a hater would envision a scenario where he practices what he preaches. |
I can totally see Kobe doing either one, which is why I wouldn't have wrote the article in the first place. He's given no indication one way or the other
And I don't think the article is a hateful one because of that, it's because of all the other stuff he wrote. Why even include that line from Phil Jacksons book from 2013? Considering also that Phil basically retracted his other statements about Kobe not being coachable considering they won 2 more rings together. That and just about everything else in it. _________________ "Bryant has been the second best player in the NBA for over a decade, but the number 1 player changes every other year. Somehow the number 1 player always seems to fall down the list but Kobe just never moves up. ". The Art of Hating Kobe Bryant |
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fiendishoc Star Player
Joined: 23 Jun 2005 Posts: 8488 Location: The (real) short corner
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Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2015 6:48 pm Post subject: |
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Is there a point to all this, considering that Jim Buss already directly addressed this issue in his interview with Pincus?
Also, after covering the team for a while Baxter should know enough to refute a lot of things those anonymous execs were saying. Outdated or misguided views. Just crappy journalism. |
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greenfrog Retired Number
Joined: 02 Jan 2011 Posts: 36081 Location: 502 Bad Gateway
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Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2015 6:51 pm Post subject: |
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evetssteve10 wrote: | And I don't think the article is a hateful one because of that, it's because of all the other stuff he wrote. Why even include that line from Phil Jacksons book from 2013? Considering also that Phil basically retracted his other statements about Kobe not being coachable considering they won 2 more rings together. That and just about everything else in it. |
You can blame Phil for that. Retracting something and then confirming it years later would be on his plate. |
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Treble Clef Franchise Player
Joined: 20 Nov 2012 Posts: 23744
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Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2015 7:00 pm Post subject: |
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I didn't think this was a hit piece at all. We have been having the exact same discussion here.
If he showed willingness to play a smaller role for a smaller contract, he would be welcomed here for as long as he could walk. |
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KobeRe-Loaded Franchise Player
Joined: 09 Dec 2003 Posts: 14944
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Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2015 7:19 pm Post subject: |
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Writer stating the obvious. This isn't new. I already assume the Lakers would let Kobe play it year to year if he wanted to at $5-10M.
If Kobe leaves that's a knock on him and not the franchise. Lakers have the leverage here folks. _________________ #11/08/16 America became GREAT again
#Avatar-gate |
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greenfrog Retired Number
Joined: 02 Jan 2011 Posts: 36081 Location: 502 Bad Gateway
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Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2015 7:51 pm Post subject: |
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It's obvious to us, but it's a national site, and believe it or not there are people who do not follow every twist and turn of this organization. For some reason, ESPN just activates everyone's tribalist gene, even if they're essentially saying stuff almost everyone would agree with. |
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Treble Clef Franchise Player
Joined: 20 Nov 2012 Posts: 23744
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Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2015 8:09 pm Post subject: |
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greenfrog wrote: | It's obvious to us, but it's a national site, and believe it or not there are people who do not follow every twist and turn of this organization. For some reason, ESPN just activates everyone's tribalist gene, even if they're essentially saying stuff almost everyone would agree with. |
Yeah, Kobe gets clicks and they need to write something about him. What can they really do? Talk about his quest for 6 rings even though he's on a lottery team? Talk about his race to the all time scoring title even though It's a few years premature and it doesn't seem like he plans to play that long? Those kinds of articles would probably just be viewed as dangling carrot articles that were just mocking him.
There are three things he could do in the near future that would get the media to roll out the red carpet for him. Take a paycut, win a championship, or retire. |
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ringfinger Retired Number
Joined: 08 Oct 2013 Posts: 29418
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Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2015 8:21 pm Post subject: |
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greenfrog wrote: | It's obvious to us, but it's a national site, and believe it or not there are people who do not follow every twist and turn of this organization. For some reason, ESPN just activates everyone's tribalist gene, even if they're essentially saying stuff almost everyone would agree with. |
Yup. There's nothing in that article we haven't already discussed amongst ourselves. |
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adkindo Retired Number
Joined: 16 Jun 2005 Posts: 40345 Location: Dirty South
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Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2015 9:22 pm Post subject: |
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Pure garbage article, as expected from ESPN. It's not that the claims are incorrect or at least debatable, but out of the countless quotes and statements Holmes referenced, did he identify 1? How do I know the GM that he spoke to is not Phil simply deflecting from the mess he currently is overseeing in NY, or the numbnuts in charge of the Sixers? Was the agents referenced established and reputable or the agent of some teams last player off the bench that allows his high school buddy to represent him? Would ESPN ever write a piece defaming Lebron or Steph Curry with a series of unidentified sources? No, but they find the need to push this agenda against Kobe every 3-6 months. Seriously, they struggle with anything positive to say about one of the greatest and talented athletes in NBA history, but still vibrate my phone to make sure I know the new team Michael Sam signed with in the Afghanistan Football League. (nothing against Sam, but it has been two years since he played football, and he is athletically irrelevant in 2015)
ESPN is the biggest name in sports, and has destroyed sports journalism. They pushed out or silenced many good sports news outlets with better business practices such as adopting online content before most, and remained out front by gaining television rights and streaming content to a younger demographic. I get many say they do not click or watch, but the bottom line is ESPN churns out more information than any other outlet by far, thus nearly impossible to avoid. That being said, it is time serious institutions of journalism begin to scrutinize their practices and bias reporting. It is not about "they don't like certain players", but because they drown out most other voices, they shape public opinion.....which can actually override what takes place on the field.
It can alter millions if not billions of dollars through merchandise sales, marketing, etc....but it can be far more damaging. Before ESPN had a contract with every major college football conference, it was obvious they gave more positive coverage of the conferences they had television rights to, thus driving up perception, then rankings and ultimately driving up ratings for the games they aired. Great business, repulsive journalism. Even last year, they pushed Ohio State into the national playoffs. I am not a fan of TCU, Ohio State, or even Baylor...but there is no way you enter the last week of the season with TCU ranked #3, and saw anything that would make you think any less of TCU. TCU was dominant on the field that week. It was not that I am claiming TCU was better than Ohio State, only that if I said I thought TCU was #3 and Ohio State was #6 on Friday, it was not reasonable to watch TCU beat Iowa State 55-3 and decide that they should slide out of the playoff....logic that several former Ohio State players including Joey Galloway have expressed...but ESPN had the rights to the playoffs and knew that Ohio State in 1-3 additional games was much more financially advantageous than a small private religious school from Texas, and began pushing Ohio State....and within days other media outlets followed (many actually had to change course to follow) and by the time the committee chose Ohio State it seemed like the logical choice...and the Buckeyes covered ESPN by playing dominant in the playoffs.
I know most of that was an unrelated ramble, but it is important to recognize ESPN's agenda driven journalism has consequences. Every kid that is not from the West Coast and just joining their first "buddy league" basketball teams while learning about the different NBA teams and players is being guided to a belief that Kobe Bryant is someone that should not be admired, which in the short term damages his brand financially as they ask their mom and Santa for merchandise, but long term could effect his legacy. While people often complain about political journalism bias pointing out that MSNBC is too liberal or Fox is too conservative; neither of these outlets reach the viewers of the mainstream Networks or even the eyes that view the New York Times or Wall Street Journal; hence we choose out political journalism outlets based on personal preference which diminishes the effects of one outlets bias. Realistically, there is no other competing voice to ESPN.
I don't know how we change ESPN's corrupt practices when as a nation our thirst for sports information is so strong. Crack addicts know their crack dealer is a bad dude, but their desire for crack is stronger than their character evaluation of the dealer. Sports fans may still click or watch ESPN, but we should at least be aware that our supplier is a bad dude. |
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Tony Anapolis Star Player
Joined: 05 Jan 2015 Posts: 3331
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Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2015 9:46 pm Post subject: |
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Sickening article. Really gives the inside scoop on the NBA and it's front offices. I hope the players stick it to them at the next CBA. |
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golaker Star Player
Joined: 04 Mar 2010 Posts: 2557
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Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2015 10:17 pm Post subject: |
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KBH wrote: | ringfinger wrote: | RCS926 wrote: | I understand what's being said. However, just because Kobe said something in the past doesn't mean it's written in stone. Kobe is going to end up invalidating his own comments about not wanting to play if he was only an 18-19 ppg player because that's exactly what he's going to be if he only ends up playing around 30 mpg. |
Ahhh. So the reason it is a hate piece, is because it assumed Kobe meant what he said. A real article, would have assumed what Kobe said was hogwash, assumed the opposite with no evidence or prior indications that the opposite would even actually occur since it has not since D'Angelo Russell was a sperm cell. |
A balanced article doesn't only present one viewpoint. The article is written in a sensationalist tone to drive clicks because they know people on both sides eat this stuff up. And as someone who has worked as a journalist, I can tell you how easy it is to have an angle for an article in my mind, speak to sources I know will support that position and ask leading questions to get the quotes I need.
Not a single lie was-or has to be-told but it's clear as day to anyone except someone wrapped up in lording his "objectivity" over others that this piece is written from a single perspective.
How do you think long feature/enterprise articles like this come about? An editor assigns a writer a topic and he spends months researching and writing it. So why do you think ESPN puts out an annual Kobe, his contract and his personality are causing the league's greatest franchise to crater? Because they know it drives clicks. Putting out a balanced piece regarding the Lakers, Kobe and the options both sides have isn't nearly as provocative. |
Would you believe me if I told you there were also posters here on this site who, for no compensation at all, put out their one sided views over and over just to get clicks and attention? Maybe you could set them up with a job in journalism _________________ Maybe you think it's completely innocent. Maybe you don't. But there's no denying that what the rule book says means a lot less than what the NBA wants at any given moment. -Tim Donaghy |
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SGV-Laker fan Star Player
Joined: 23 May 2013 Posts: 8842
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Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2015 6:55 am Post subject: |
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KobeRe-Loaded wrote: | Writer stating the obvious. This isn't new. I already assume the Lakers would let Kobe play it year to year if he wanted to at $5-10M.
If Kobe leaves that's a knock on him and not the franchise. Lakers have the leverage here folks. |
you're absolutely 100% right, but unfortunately, our ownership (Jeanie Buss) in particular only cares about TV ratings and how team's business partners think. to those people (who are only in it for the $$$ and not really fan of the team), Kobe's face alone sells tickets, little they know real Laker fans want to see a winning product, or at least a team that's growing into a winning product, personally, without Kobe's shadow, drama and uncertainties lingering along, we will accomplish that sooner |
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activeverb Retired Number
Joined: 17 Jun 2006 Posts: 37470
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Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2015 7:15 am Post subject: |
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KobeRe-Loaded wrote: | Writer stating the obvious. This isn't new. I already assume the Lakers would let Kobe play it year to year if he wanted to at $5-10M.
If Kobe leaves that's a knock on him and not the franchise. Lakers have the leverage here folks. |
I don't think it's about leverage. If Kobe leaves for another franchise, it won't be good for the Lakers, and it probably won't be good for him. But the Lakers and Kobe will move on, just as Houston and Hakeem did after their stormy parting. |
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SGV-Laker fan Star Player
Joined: 23 May 2013 Posts: 8842
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Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2015 7:33 am Post subject: |
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activeverb wrote: | KobeRe-Loaded wrote: | Writer stating the obvious. This isn't new. I already assume the Lakers would let Kobe play it year to year if he wanted to at $5-10M.
If Kobe leaves that's a knock on him and not the franchise. Lakers have the leverage here folks. |
I don't think it's about leverage. If Kobe leaves for another franchise, it won't be good for the Lakers, and it probably won't be good for him. But the Lakers and Kobe will move on, just as Houston and Hakeem did after their stormy parting. |
can you elaborate on the highlighted part? how so Lakers would be blamed if kobe leaves?
1. lakers not royal enough to keep their star?
everyone around the league were questioning the extension kobe got, the last thing this team can be blamed for is royalty
2. lakers will suffer on the court without kobe?
you really think that will be the case? even with a healthy kobe at this stage of his career, this team isn't going anywhere any time soon
are these two things you had in mind that lakers will suffer without kobe? |
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Voices Star Player
Joined: 07 Jul 2006 Posts: 8287 Location: Oxnard, Ca.
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Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2015 9:09 am Post subject: |
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Kobe will never take a backseat to players that he still better than, right now Kobe is still the Lakers best player. It is clear that a healthy Kobe can still be a great player. Going forward if and it is a big if Kobe stays healthy he is still the man.
Will he retire as a Lakers remains to be seen....... _________________ .....
.....
ALTHOUGH HE STANDS 6 FEET 2 INCHES, JIM BUSS ATTENDED JOCKEY SCHOOL WHEN HE WAS 20. |
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ringfinger Retired Number
Joined: 08 Oct 2013 Posts: 29418
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Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2015 9:46 am Post subject: |
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SGV-Laker fan wrote: | KobeRe-Loaded wrote: | Writer stating the obvious. This isn't new. I already assume the Lakers would let Kobe play it year to year if he wanted to at $5-10M.
If Kobe leaves that's a knock on him and not the franchise. Lakers have the leverage here folks. |
you're absolutely 100% right, but unfortunately, our ownership (Jeanie Buss) in particular only cares about TV ratings and how team's business partners think. to those people (who are only in it for the $$$ and not really fan of the team), Kobe's face alone sells tickets, little they know real Laker fans want to see a winning product, or at least a team that's growing into a winning product, personally, without Kobe's shadow, drama and uncertainties lingering along, we will accomplish that sooner |
Exactly. This is the point a lot of people are missing from the article because they're too focused on the unpleasantries in it.
That's precisely why it is a "nightmare" for the Lakers so to speak if Kobe decides he wants to keep playing. The best case scenario for them is that he retires a Laker this year.
If he doesn't -- then the Lakers are in the uncomfortable position to decide whether to forgo a cash cow for the sake of developing the new core, or risk impeding that development by keeping a cash cow who would likely utilize at least a considerable portion of the salary cap in addition to warrant pretty much all of the attention from fans, media, team resources, etc.
It's emotion vs business vs team development, in essence. |
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venturalakersfan Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144432 Location: The Gold Coast
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Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2015 9:51 am Post subject: |
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fiendishoc wrote: | Is there a point to all this, considering that Jim Buss already directly addressed this issue in his interview with Pincus?
Also, after covering the team for a while Baxter should know enough to refute a lot of things those anonymous execs were saying. Outdated or misguided views. Just crappy journalism. |
The only point is financial. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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ringfinger Retired Number
Joined: 08 Oct 2013 Posts: 29418
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Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2015 9:51 am Post subject: |
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Voices wrote: | Kobe will never take a backseat to players that he still better than, right now Kobe is still the Lakers best player. It is clear that a healthy Kobe can still be a great player. Going forward if and it is a big if Kobe stays healthy he is still the man.
Will he retire as a Lakers remains to be seen....... |
Right now? Right now is irrelevant to this discussion really.
And you highlight the exact reason why many of the "insiders" feel it is best to move on from Kobe. Because as long as he thinks he's still the top dog, he will never take a backseat.
But him taking a backseat, is perhaps, exactly what this team needs. |
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