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OdomX2
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Joined: 25 Nov 2004
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 Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 8:51 pm Post subject: |
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| critical_beatdown wrote: | I agree with the thrust of the post.
But, let's keep in mind that the Lamar haters seem like they are the worst bong-loaders of all, because their short-term memories are terrible.
Lamar has been initiating all year and only the past 2 weeks has there been ANY issue with his turnovers. All year he's been great with the A/TO ratio.
Even when he got 8 turnovers, guess who got 4 that game? Kobe Bryant.
Even when he got 7 turnovers the game before the 8 turnovers (the start of Lamar's TO funk 2 about 2 weeks ago), guess who got 6 turnovers? Kobe Bryant.
Now, tonight, no Lamar initiating, and Kobe/Smush combine for what? 13+ turnovers?
Lamar is fine. He's been in a funk as far as TO's since that Golden State game, or whatever game it was, but overall, over the course of the season, Lamar has not been a TO problem.
And, as Kobe has said all along, Lamar has freed up the floor for him. Teams have to overplay Lamar too, because if they don't he WILL abuse them. So tonight you saw in the 4th quarter what happens when Lamar is not out there facilitating (not shooting). In the 4th quarter, Lamar should facilitate, and Kobe should shoot. |
If Odom was averaging 30 points a game like Kobe, you may have a point. |
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wolfpaclaker
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Joined: 29 May 2002
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| Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 8:51 pm Post subject: |
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It's simple.
Kobe Bryant is a guard when Odom is out. When Odom is in and performing his role - Kobe can shift to SF and be a pure scorer.
If that alone is so hard to understand, I don't know what to say. Do you think it's a coincidence that Kobe was one of the league leaders in TO's last season but has had very little problem this season?
Why?
And George is a good defender, but he forces Kobe to be a guard on offense and thus increase in TO's.
I think Kobe had a very good game. He is the game's best player. But he is best suited to be a pure scorer on offense.
Lamar Odom allows him to be that. Devean George does not. |
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Car54
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Joined: 10 Aug 2005
Posts: 14424
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| Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 8:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Good post wolf & critcle |
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OdomX2
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Joined: 25 Nov 2004
Posts: 3973
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| Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 8:58 pm Post subject: |
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| wolfpaclaker wrote: | It's simple.
Kobe Bryant is a guard when Odom is out. When Odom is in and performing his role - Kobe can shift to SF and be a pure scorer.
If that alone is so hard to understand, I don't know what to say. Do you think it's a coincidence that Kobe was one of the league leaders in TO's last season but has had very little problem this season?
Why?
And George is a good defender, but he forces Kobe to be a guard on offense and thus increase in TO's.
I think Kobe had a very good game. He is the game's best player. But he is best suited to be a pure scorer on offense.
Lamar Odom allows him to be that. Devean George does not. |
Oh BS, you're in your glory now with a Laker loss without Odom. He sure didn't do jack in Indiana, or any other freaking game for that matter. The Lakers suck with or without Odom. And Kobe was the facilitator on 3 straight title teams. I think he knows how to get it done. Interesting that you haven't mentioned his shooting precentage or rebounds, or even assists for that matter. Now it's TO's. |
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AllorNothing
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Joined: 08 Oct 2001
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| Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 9:01 pm Post subject: |
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This games just tells me that Luke Walton is underpaid. He has the same stat lines if Odom were to play.  |
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wolfpaclaker
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Joined: 29 May 2002
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| Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 9:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Oh BS, you're in your glory now with a Laker loss without Odom. He sure didn't do jack in Indiana, or any other freaking game for that matter. The Lakers suck with or without Odom. And Kobe was the facilitator on 3 straight title teams. I think he knows how to get it done. Interesting that you haven't mentioned his shooting precentage or rebounds, or even assists for that matter. Now it's TO's. |
I'm never happy over a Laker loss.
You're an ass for even suggesting that. Look at the game thread - I was actually thinking they would cut the lead and win it in the 4th. However, they didn't make that run in the 4th after cutting the lead.
My point on Kobe and ALL NBA Superstar swingmen for that matter.
The one's that play with someone else leading the team in assists are much better off
Carter with Kidd is a great example.
You are ignoring something that was said by Kobe himself. That Lamar initiating allows Kobe to be a pure scorer.
If not for a few 3's that he was forced to take - Bryant had a very low FGA game. That without the 2nd best player. If anything - his FGA's need to rise ...
Kobe needs someone out there with him that can take over the guard duties. That's all I'm saying. |
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critical_beatdown
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Joined: 01 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 9:10 pm Post subject: |
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OdomX2, the point is the criticism Lamar has received for turnovers the past 5 games, not the other criticism.
Lamar is invaluable to this team, and we're about to find that out, just like last year. Hopefully, it's only 1 or 2 games. |
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critical_beatdown
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Joined: 01 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 9:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Lamar is so much better than most of you give him credit for. No player in the NBA loses track of where Lamar Odom is if he's playing against him. The man is a factor in too many areas to count. So is Kobe, X2. But the bottom line is that whether Lamar is meeting expectations is one thing, and his actual impact even playing at an average level (which is superior) is another. Teams have to account for Lamar Odom, and overplay him if he's in the post, and that's undeniable. |
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kobester
Star Player
Joined: 08 Dec 2004
Posts: 1247
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| Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 9:13 pm Post subject: Re: Odom was wrongfully accused. |
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| KobeButler wrote: | | Remember when we were blaming odom for all those turnovers? Kobe has 8 turnovers. Smush has 7 turnovers. It just shows that no one else on the team is capable of holding onto a ball. A turnover also has to depend on whos recieving the ball. |
A minor correction. Kobe had 7 TOs and Smush had 8. It looks like smush is trying to make up for lamar in the TO department 
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"I think I've been forgotten about a little bit as far as what I can do on the basketball court,'' the Los Angeles Lakers star guard said, "People forget." |
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times
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| Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 9:15 pm Post subject: |
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Trade Odom  |
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wolfpaclaker
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| Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 9:16 pm Post subject: |
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Smush is ussually not a high TO man.
Wanna guess why he had so many tonight?
He tried running the point. Not his role at all. He is a 2 guard. Kobe is a 3.
Lamar is this team's point. Even if LO has 8 TO games, you want him to because he also has 12 assist games.
The Lakers need to just be patient and try to steal a few games through team defense and Kobe's heroics. |
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critical_beatdown
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Joined: 01 Jan 2006
Posts: 2072
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| Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 9:17 pm Post subject: Re: Odom was wrongfully accused. |
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| kobester wrote: | | KobeButler wrote: | | Remember when we were blaming odom for all those turnovers? Kobe has 8 turnovers. Smush has 7 turnovers. It just shows that no one else on the team is capable of holding onto a ball. A turnover also has to depend on whos recieving the ball. |
A minor correction. Kobe had 7 TOs and Smush had 8. It looks like smush is trying to make up for lamar in the TO department |
Are you saying that Kobe should average 7 TO's?
When Lamar had 7, Kobe had 6.
When Lamar had 8, Kobe had 4.
We need to improve our decision-making. Lamar and #8. |
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Hector the Pup
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Joined: 25 Jul 2002
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Location: L.A.
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| Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 9:19 pm Post subject: |
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Hmmm.... Once again, trade talks about Odom come up and he gets an injury that happens to have him return after the trade deadline.....
8) |
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OdomX2
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Joined: 25 Nov 2004
Posts: 3973
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| Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 9:20 pm Post subject: |
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| wolfpaclaker wrote: | Smush is ussually not a high TO man.
Wanna guess why he had so many tonight?
He tried running the point. Not his role at all. He is a 2 guard. Kobe is a 3.
Lamar is this team's point. Even if LO has 8 TO games, you want him to because he also has 12 assist games.
The Lakers need to just be patient and try to steal a few games through team defense and Kobe's heroics. |
Odom averages 5.6 assists a game!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Not 12. Again, the Lakers are no better or worse off without Odom. |
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critical_beatdown
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| Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 9:22 pm Post subject: |
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Lamar also has had over a 2:1 A/TO ratio all year, and he's not even a natural assist guy, which makes that more impressive.
And, the evidence is undeniable that without Lamar last year we were terrible. Reality bites. |
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wolfpaclaker
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| Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 9:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Odom averages 5.6 assists a game!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Not 12. Again, the Lakers are no better or worse off without Odom. |
And he also doesn't average 8 TURNOVERS per game.
So that's my point. For every high TO game, LO has had a high assist game.
Most importantly he allows Kobe to be a pure scorer. That's something you want to overlook. |
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