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critical_beatdown
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Joined: 01 Jan 2006
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 Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 10:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Phil has the luxury of experimenting with the team with Lamar out there, including with Lamar's role, because Lamar is so damn good in so many areas of the game. Now, that luxury is gone, and we're pressing. The margin of error just got a lot more tight. |
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bounty
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| Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 10:14 pm Post subject: |
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| critical_beatdown wrote: | | Phil has the luxury of experimenting with the team with Lamar out there, including with Lamar's role, because Lamar is so damn good in so many areas of the game. Now, that luxury is gone, and we're pressing. The margin of error just got a lot more tight. |
 when has lo been "so damn good" Indy game. Or the 5 preceding that. or was the 4 following our last road trip. Perhaps it was Kobes record night, or maybe the sac game.
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critical_beatdown
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| Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 10:16 pm Post subject: |
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| bounty, you'll never get it. I challenge you to meet at the Venice Beach courts any day of the week. you have to play the game to understand Lamar's impact, which will not be measured just by the stats (and the stats are kind to Lamar). he's one guy who can do so many things, and especially on the glass, but far from exclusively. |
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times
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| Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 10:19 pm Post subject: |
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| critical_beatdown wrote: | | bounty, you'll never get it. I challenge you to meet at the Venice Beach courts any day of the week. you have to play the game to understand Lamar's impact, which will not be measured just by the stats (and the stats are kind to Lamar). he's one guy who can do so many things, and especially on the glass, but far from exclusively. |
Just trade Odom!! |
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Drifts
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| Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 10:20 pm Post subject: |
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| critical_beatdown wrote: | | bounty, you'll never get it. I challenge you to meet at the Venice Beach courts any day of the week. you have to play the game to understand Lamar's impact, which will not be measured just by the stats (and the stats are kind to Lamar). he's one guy who can do so many things, and especially on the glass, but far from exclusively. |
Lamar would be a decent 3rd option non-point guard on any team. But what the Lakers need is someone who can run the offense and become the team's 2nd option. Lamar does not fit that role. Sadly, he's the only traid bait we've got.
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bounty
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| Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 10:22 pm Post subject: |
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| vanexelent wrote: | | Car54 wrote: | | DuncanIdaho wrote: | We arguably missed Odom more than Kobe during their injury stints last year. Of course he helps us out. The problem is, someone like Artest could have probably helped us out more.
We'll see. |
If we could have gotten Ron without losing our best rebounder it would have helped. But to say he would have helped more i have to disagree. where he would have helped on defense & scoring we would have lost in rebs and as a pg of team. i dont know about yall but i dont trust mihm and kwame enough in the reb department. |
Rebounds can easily be compensated for and picked up by the collective team. Without Odom's average of 9 rebounds a game tonight, the team all stepped up grabbing some boards.
Kobe-9 rbs.
Mihm-9 rbs.
Walton-7 rbs.
George- 5 rbs
Brown-5 rbs.
Cook-4 rbs.
Using rebounds as a reason to keep Odom does not make sense. Odom is made out to be an initiator of the triangle, but again, Walton had 5 assists tonight, as did Kobe. So, initiators can be replaced as well. Odom creates mismatches for opposing SF. How so? His abnormal dribbling skills for his size is wasted when he doesn't shoot or just misses when he does.
I think Odom's absence shows how replacable his assests are and how in need of a scorer the team is. Trade him Mitch. |
Bump this post
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critical_beatdown
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| Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 10:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Lamar is one of the most valuable guys in the league...and not (ever) as a 2nd option scorer. Try almost every other area. There's only a few guys who do more in the league...KG...maybe Kirilenko. |
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bounty
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| Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 10:25 pm Post subject: |
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| critical_beatdown wrote: | | bounty, you'll never get it. I challenge you to meet at the Venice Beach courts any day of the week. you have to play the game to understand Lamar's impact, which will not be measured just by the stats (and the stats are kind to Lamar). he's one guy who can do so many things, and especially on the glass, but far from exclusively. |
Im not great at BBall, i prefer beach volleyball, but i grew up in venice. hit me up. Im always down for outdoor activity. But I have played and watched and understand BBall. But yes, i will meet you. PM lets set it up
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bounty
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| Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 10:26 pm Post subject: |
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| critical_beatdown wrote: | | Lamar is one of the most valuable guys in the league...and not (ever) as a 2nd option scorer. Try almost every other area. There's only a few guys who do more in the league...KG...maybe Kirilenko. |
you 're classic. stick to comparing LO to MLE players. Not legit all stars
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critical_beatdown
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| Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 10:29 pm Post subject: |
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| bounty wrote: | | critical_beatdown wrote: | | bounty, you'll never get it. I challenge you to meet at the Venice Beach courts any day of the week. you have to play the game to understand Lamar's impact, which will not be measured just by the stats (and the stats are kind to Lamar). he's one guy who can do so many things, and especially on the glass, but far from exclusively. |
Im not great at BBall, i prefer beach volleyball, but i grew up in venice. hit me up. Im always down for outdoor activity. But I have played and watched and understand BBall. But yes, i will meet you. PM lets set it up |
Alright...we'll see how well you understand the game then. Of course, there won't be anyone who does everything like Lamar, but it will be fun anyway, just to see who we're dealing with. And beach volleyball is a great game. I don't PM though, so we'll figure out another way. My old roommate lives in Morrison Hotel, and I know Venice well, having lived on the end of North Venice Boulevard just a few years ago (b balling too)... |
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Worthy42
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| Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 10:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Drifts wrote: | | Worthy42 wrote: | | lakerfin wrote: | I'm listening to the pros and cons of Lamar Odom from everyone. I can see points on both sides. Love him, get rid of him. But for me ,the real problem is , you can't have your second most integral player be so indecisive, so unsure of himself, so LOST sometimes. He's seven years in? While he and Kwame both have unbelievable physical abilities, it's the ones that are confident and have mental toughness that really make a difference. If we lose a game, let it be because the other team just willed themselves past us, head to head, not because we have starters that are either weak minded (mentally/emotionally) or just content with collecting their fat checks. Some of these guys don't appreciate what an honor it is to be a part of this historic franchise...... Or to be paid to play a game they supposedly love.
Sure is a different game today. |
not even a full year of experience under the triangle offense as initiator yet. that's the real time table you have to look at.
it took kobe about 2 years to master, about the same time as a ron harper and brian shaw |
2 years for Kobe to master? |
yes, ron harper was the initiator the first year, in 2000 under phil.
kobe eventually filled into the role along with brian shaw |
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kobe_somebody_odom
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| Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 10:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Kirelinko is not an all-star this year. I mean Lamar is so underrated on this forum. Like Magic said, I'll take 15/9/5 every day of the week. Odom is not the problem. He is a piece to a puzzle that is not yet complete. Be patient people. |
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Worthy42
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| Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 10:35 pm Post subject: |
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| kobe_somebody_odom wrote: | | Kirelinko is not an all-star this year. I mean Lamar is so underrated on this forum. Like Magic said, I'll take 15/9/5 every day of the week. Odom is not the problem. He is a piece to a puzzle that is not yet complete. Be patient people. |
Most posters tend to agree with you, except for 3 or 4 very clouded individuals.
Kobe, LO, and Mihm are fine. We need to add one consistent outside shooter to the squad off the bench. Cook should be filling this role, but he's such a streaky shooter that he can't be depended on nightly. Sasha really needs to develop his shot. |
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Drifts
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| Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 10:36 pm Post subject: |
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| critical_beatdown wrote: | | Lamar is one of the most valuable guys in the league...and not (ever) as a 2nd option scorer. Try almost every other area. There's only a few guys who do more in the league...KG...maybe Kirilenko. |
come on CB, Lamar is way out of the KG/AK's league...
Let's just say Lamar is the best one-handed 6-10 weak-minded forward with good handles...and leave it at that.
The only way I can see the Lakers winning with Lamar staying is if the Lakers somehow find a way to get another player who can be the team's secondary scorer.
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Worthy42
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| Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 10:38 pm Post subject: |
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| KG on this team would look the same as Lamar and would receive the same flack because he would avg. the same numbers, impacting the game the same way, while being paid more. Look at what he's doing now in MN. |
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bounty
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| Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 10:40 pm Post subject: |
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| kobe_somebody_odom wrote: | | Kirelinko is not an all-star this year. I mean Lamar is so underrated on this forum. Like Magic said, I'll take 15/9/5 every day of the week. Odom is not the problem. He is a piece to a puzzle that is not yet complete. Be patient people. |
He has been an all-star. You know the status everyone claims LO is. You guys dont get the pattern. Has anyone came out and said anything remotely negative about LO. No b/c early on when the coaches did he went into a shell. PJ even accused him 4 games after the sac game of still dwelling on it. What the hell is anyone going to say? The dude has a weak mind. Could I live with LO on the team sure. Understand this though. he makes 12mil a year. Your probably not going to pay LO 12, Kobe Infiniti, and another 2nd option(what we need) . So is LO a hinderance to the puzzle or is he an actual piece. Somewhere he is going to have to get substantally better or he is going to be a financial anchor of Brian Grant sorts. We need to get a Star, and trade LO for 2 solid role guys. That is a lot to be done for a GM who is absolutely clueless when it comes to building.
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Drifts
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| Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 10:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Worthy42 wrote: | | Drifts wrote: | | Worthy42 wrote: | | lakerfin wrote: | I'm listening to the pros and cons of Lamar Odom from everyone. I can see points on both sides. Love him, get rid of him. But for me ,the real problem is , you can't have your second most integral player be so indecisive, so unsure of himself, so LOST sometimes. He's seven years in? While he and Kwame both have unbelievable physical abilities, it's the ones that are confident and have mental toughness that really make a difference. If we lose a game, let it be because the other team just willed themselves past us, head to head, not because we have starters that are either weak minded (mentally/emotionally) or just content with collecting their fat checks. Some of these guys don't appreciate what an honor it is to be a part of this historic franchise...... Or to be paid to play a game they supposedly love.
Sure is a different game today. |
not even a full year of experience under the triangle offense as initiator yet. that's the real time table you have to look at.
it took kobe about 2 years to master, about the same time as a ron harper and brian shaw |
2 years for Kobe to master? |
yes, ron harper was the initiator the first year, in 2000 under phil.
kobe eventually filled into the role along with brian shaw |
I'm sorry...Ron was playing Smush's role (or his role during the Bulls era). Kobe was playing Odom's role (or Pip's role). Don't re-write history.
but of course, Ron and Shaw did help Kobe a lot. I'd give you that...but Kobe is far better than Odom in preparing and studying the game, read the excerpts of Kobe's article in Dime magazine and you'll know what I'm talking about.
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"Now, if life is coffee, then the jobs, money & position in society are the cups. They are just tools to hold & contain life, but the quality of life doesn't change. Sometimes, by concentrating only on the cup, we fail to enjoy the coffee in it."
Last edited by Drifts on Fri Feb 03, 2006 10:44 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Worthy42
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| Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 10:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Drifts wrote: | | Worthy42 wrote: | | Drifts wrote: | | Worthy42 wrote: | | lakerfin wrote: | I'm listening to the pros and cons of Lamar Odom from everyone. I can see points on both sides. Love him, get rid of him. But for me ,the real problem is , you can't have your second most integral player be so indecisive, so unsure of himself, so LOST sometimes. He's seven years in? While he and Kwame both have unbelievable physical abilities, it's the ones that are confident and have mental toughness that really make a difference. If we lose a game, let it be because the other team just willed themselves past us, head to head, not because we have starters that are either weak minded (mentally/emotionally) or just content with collecting their fat checks. Some of these guys don't appreciate what an honor it is to be a part of this historic franchise...... Or to be paid to play a game they supposedly love.
Sure is a different game today. |
not even a full year of experience under the triangle offense as initiator yet. that's the real time table you have to look at.
it took kobe about 2 years to master, about the same time as a ron harper and brian shaw |
2 years for Kobe to master? |
yes, ron harper was the initiator the first year, in 2000 under phil.
kobe eventually filled into the role along with brian shaw |
I'm sorry...Ron was playing Smush's role (or his role during the Bulls era). Kobe was playing Odom's role (or Pip's role). Don't re-write history. |
Right, because Kobe got the tri, right off the bat. |
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bounty
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| Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 10:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Worthy42 wrote: | | KG on this team would look the same as Lamar and would receive the same flack because he would avg. the same numbers, impacting the game the same way, while being paid more. Look at what he's doing now in MN. |
If KG had the ball would you guard him? Would you dare him to shoot? Would you double Him?
If KG is in the post defensively would go at him? Would you pass?
You see its never about fantasy #'s
picture Kobe and KG
Now picture LO and Kobe
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Drifts
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| Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 10:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Worthy42 wrote: | | Drifts wrote: | | Worthy42 wrote: | | Drifts wrote: | | Worthy42 wrote: | | lakerfin wrote: | I'm listening to the pros and cons of Lamar Odom from everyone. I can see points on both sides. Love him, get rid of him. But for me ,the real problem is , you can't have your second most integral player be so indecisive, so unsure of himself, so LOST sometimes. He's seven years in? While he and Kwame both have unbelievable physical abilities, it's the ones that are confident and have mental toughness that really make a difference. If we lose a game, let it be because the other team just willed themselves past us, head to head, not because we have starters that are either weak minded (mentally/emotionally) or just content with collecting their fat checks. Some of these guys don't appreciate what an honor it is to be a part of this historic franchise...... Or to be paid to play a game they supposedly love.
Sure is a different game today. |
not even a full year of experience under the triangle offense as initiator yet. that's the real time table you have to look at.
it took kobe about 2 years to master, about the same time as a ron harper and brian shaw |
2 years for Kobe to master? |
yes, ron harper was the initiator the first year, in 2000 under phil.
kobe eventually filled into the role along with brian shaw |
I'm sorry...Ron was playing Smush's role (or his role during the Bulls era). Kobe was playing Odom's role (or Pip's role). Don't re-write history. |
Right, because Kobe got the tri, right off the bat. |
but it didn't take him 2 years like you said...
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"Now, if life is coffee, then the jobs, money & position in society are the cups. They are just tools to hold & contain life, but the quality of life doesn't change. Sometimes, by concentrating only on the cup, we fail to enjoy the coffee in it." |
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Worthy42
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| Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 10:46 pm Post subject: |
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| bounty wrote: | | Worthy42 wrote: | | KG on this team would look the same as Lamar and would receive the same flack because he would avg. the same numbers, impacting the game the same way, while being paid more. Look at what he's doing now in MN. |
If KG had the ball would you guard him? Would you dare him to shoot? Would you double Him?
If KG is in the post defensively would go at him? Would you pass?
You see its never about fantasy #'s
picture Kobe and KG
Now picture LO and Kobe |
KG didn't even touch the ball down the stretch in the clutch tonight. He then proceeded to not foul Steve Blake in the corner while the clock ran down to 0.3 seconds while his team was down 2 pts. LO does that and the board will light him up faster then a Clinton cigar coming out of Monica's love tunnel. |
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Worthy42
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| Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 10:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Drifts wrote: | | Worthy42 wrote: | | Drifts wrote: | | Worthy42 wrote: | | Drifts wrote: | | Worthy42 wrote: | | lakerfin wrote: | I'm listening to the pros and cons of Lamar Odom from everyone. I can see points on both sides. Love him, get rid of him. But for me ,the real problem is , you can't have your second most integral player be so indecisive, so unsure of himself, so LOST sometimes. He's seven years in? While he and Kwame both have unbelievable physical abilities, it's the ones that are confident and have mental toughness that really make a difference. If we lose a game, let it be because the other team just willed themselves past us, head to head, not because we have starters that are either weak minded (mentally/emotionally) or just content with collecting their fat checks. Some of these guys don't appreciate what an honor it is to be a part of this historic franchise...... Or to be paid to play a game they supposedly love.
Sure is a different game today. |
not even a full year of experience under the triangle offense as initiator yet. that's the real time table you have to look at.
it took kobe about 2 years to master, about the same time as a ron harper and brian shaw |
2 years for Kobe to master? |
yes, ron harper was the initiator the first year, in 2000 under phil.
kobe eventually filled into the role along with brian shaw |
I'm sorry...Ron was playing Smush's role (or his role during the Bulls era). Kobe was playing Odom's role (or Pip's role). Don't re-write history. |
Right, because Kobe got the tri, right off the bat. |
but it didn't take him 2 years like you said... |
Right, 2000 to 2002 is 2 years unless the math is off.
Last edited by Worthy42 on Fri Feb 03, 2006 10:48 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Drifts
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| Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 10:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Worthy42 wrote: | | KG on this team would look the same as Lamar and would receive the same flack because he would avg. the same numbers, impacting the game the same way, while being paid more. Look at what he's doing now in MN. |
stop sinking in Lamar's name. Save yourself. KG would look the same as Lamar??
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"Now, if life is coffee, then the jobs, money & position in society are the cups. They are just tools to hold & contain life, but the quality of life doesn't change. Sometimes, by concentrating only on the cup, we fail to enjoy the coffee in it." |
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Worthy42
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| Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 10:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Drifts wrote: | | Worthy42 wrote: | | KG on this team would look the same as Lamar and would receive the same flack because he would avg. the same numbers, impacting the game the same way, while being paid more. Look at what he's doing now in MN. |
stop sinking in Lamar's name. Save yourself. KG would look the same as Lamar?? |
it doesn't have to be lamar. fill in the ____ 2nd option right here, with any other player after 40 games with this squad, and they will get the same treatment on this board from you guys. |
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Drifts
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| Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 10:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Worthy42 wrote: | | Drifts wrote: | | Worthy42 wrote: | | KG on this team would look the same as Lamar and would receive the same flack because he would avg. the same numbers, impacting the game the same way, while being paid more. Look at what he's doing now in MN. |
stop sinking in Lamar's name. Save yourself. KG would look the same as Lamar?? |
it doesn't have to be lamar. fill in the ____ 2nd option right here, with any other player after 40 games with this squad, and they will get the same treatment on this board from you guys. |
It's how Lamar plays. Part of it is how he is used the wrong way. So if X player is used the way Lamar is and shows up the way Lamar has, I bet he'll get the same treatment.
_________________
"Now, if life is coffee, then the jobs, money & position in society are the cups. They are just tools to hold & contain life, but the quality of life doesn't change. Sometimes, by concentrating only on the cup, we fail to enjoy the coffee in it." |
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