WE WANT LUKE WALTON THREAD
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2016 9:21 pm    Post subject:

Will say this, the Warriors' offense makes me salivate. No Duncan for the Spurs tonight, but Curry is absolutely tearing up Parker, Mills, Simmons, and Leonard. Even when they're doubling him, Curry's able to kick it out to Draymond who'll take advantage of a four on three. I'd like to see how Luke would integrate D'Angelo and Clarkson into an offense along with Julius and Nance Jr.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2016 9:53 pm    Post subject:

Contract offer for Luke to include:

All whiny Lakergrounders no (bleep) when Luke takes over the under talented squad. No Luke piss and moan threads allowed or posts about Luke in a piss and moan or gameday thread.

All Lakergrounders who whined and (bleep) about Luke when he was a Laker, apologize and donate $1 to a Laker charity for each post in their history with such comments as "Luke sucks, Puke Walton, high BBQ-IQ, Luke plays like a girl" etc. etc. Some of you would be out of beer or dope money for a month or more.

Luke will make a fine coach, but it will take time unless he goes someplace with experienced talent on the roster and a patient front office and fan base.

Actually what a great way to fund Lakersground.net! Everyone gets a bill and pays a $1 surcharge from Paypal for each Luke insult in their post history. No posting from their usernames or URL until funds received. $$
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2016 11:22 pm    Post subject:

dood23 wrote:
MJST wrote:
ALL of Phil's disciples that went to a rebuilding team they had to build from the ground up, FAILED.. and there is a reason for that.


They tried to bring the triangle to teams that had no business running it?


The triangle wasn't the problem.

yinoma2001 wrote:
^ damn. Did Luke ignore your autograph requests and/or stole your girl?


And that childish comment shows you essentially have no answer or counter to anything I just said, Most likely because its the closest to the truth in the scenarios you play out when you lay everything on the table. But I'll finish this up now.

Anyway, the Warriors blew out the Spurs by 30 tonight in 3 quarters.

if that doesn't show just how far ahead the Warriors are to the rest of the league at this point, I don't know what else does. If you want the Lakers to actually succeed with Luke as their coach, watch, read and listen.

The strategy that works for Phil's disciples or if you want to bring that kind of thing here, is you need an already built team with a structure, but needs to go over the top a bit and then you get that guy(Kerr or Luke in this case) and you bring him in to put them over the top. Be it a small change to the offense / philosophy or what not.

But NO team that has ever tried to "Phil" it from the bottom up has ever succeeded. It's just not reality.

The only one of Phil's disciples that has had any success was Kerr, and that's because he intelligently came to the Warriors instead of the Knicks first of all, an established team that was already winning and always came 'just too short' and then he brought along Gentry, that way what he didn't understand, Gentry did, and they could bounce it off each other but also because what he didn't know he deferred to Gentry, and it allowed him to focus on the player ego's, coaching the team and strategy, and any offensive wrinkle he thought of implementing was a feature in what Gentry assigned for the team, rather than the primary and they both went with it. THIS is what Phil did best and this is why Phil had such success, he had the right team on the bench with an already established team to take that team over the top and allow him to focus on coaching while they focused on X's and O's.

Kerr did that with Golden State which was already established and a winning club but needed that final push. Phil Jackson did that with the Bulls after they got rid of Collins when Phil came over and brought Tex. He did it with the Lakers when the Lakers were ready to make that push and got rid of Del Harris and Phil came in and brought that team and put that team over the top.

Steve Kerr did it with the Warriors as well.

So IF you want Luke to replicate that kind of success, because the evidence has been put in front of you what happens when you try to bring a guy like that to a rebuilding situation (failure) and what happens when you bring them to an established one in need of just a few tweaks to go over the top(success).

So if people actually want to pay attention to what works and what doesn't and has worked throughout history and aren't just focused on their headcannons. Then if they want to bring Luke over, what they do is they need to already have an established Lakers team, one that is solid in the West and can get in at the 4th or 5th seed or at best 3rd seed on a consistent basis and just needs a little push and a right philosophy brought in.

THAT is when you bring in Luke. THAT is when you try to bring him in to implement stuff, you DO NOT do it from a 'ground up' situation, history has already shown time and time again with both Rambis and Shaw that THIS method does NOT work. And the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and over again and telling yourself "oh this time will be different. This time is special." a lot of losing teams get stuck in that mentality of the next thing being "different" that turns their fate, and they are 95% of the time wrong, and they continue failing.


So again, if everyone wants to bring Luke over, the Lakers have to be at LEAST a 45-50 win team BEFORE that happens, otherwise it's a waste of time and within 2 seasons they'll want Luke gone too and suddenly call him lucky to just be running the store for the best team in the NBA (which just massacred the Spurs by 30 with Kerr as their coach within 3 quarters, now HOW MUCH of that run do you wanna keep giving credit to Luke for?)

If you want a coach disciple that 'builds from the bottom up' you go for a disciple of Popovich, not Phil, when you want one that will take you over the top when you're already making 3rd or 4th seed and are ready to break through, THEN you get a Phil disciple. So if you want Luke, our team needs to be in a position of winning first. And by the time they are, Luke will have already gotten more time under his belt and if whomever we have coaching us at that point isn't getting us over the top, then we go after Luke. Anything before then is headed for disaster, for both ourselves, and Luke.

Anyway, I've given you the method on if you want to bring Luke over as our coach, and it's a method that has been proven time and time again by both Phil Jackson and now Steve Kerr to work. Now you can either roll with that, or you can keep trying the same thing over and over and over again and keep saying it will be "different" despite history always showing otherwise.

Up to you.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2016 11:40 pm    Post subject:

MJST wrote:
dood23 wrote:
MJST wrote:
ALL of Phil's disciples that went to a rebuilding team they had to build from the ground up, FAILED.. and there is a reason for that.


They tried to bring the triangle to teams that had no business running it?


The triangle wasn't the problem.

yinoma2001 wrote:
^ damn. Did Luke ignore your autograph requests and/or stole your girl?



So again, if everyone wants to bring Luke over, the Lakers have to be at LEAST a 45-50 win team BEFORE that happens, otherwise it's a waste of time and within 2 seasons they'll want Luke gone too and suddenly call him lucky to just be running the store for the best team in the NBA (which just massacred the Spurs by 30 with Kerr as their coach within 3 quarters, now HOW MUCH of that run do you wanna keep giving credit to Luke for?)
Up to you.


Agreed. This team needs a "Del Harris" before they can get Luke or someone to take them to a higher tier. Luke would be setup to fail unless he or the FO can get a staff as good as the Spurs or Warriors. Like it or not the FO failed the young players for hiring an incompetent for Kobe.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2016 2:05 am    Post subject:

kerr is back and the warriors are still killing; what does that say about the team and Luke's coaching?
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2016 3:17 am    Post subject:

Outspoken wrote:
kerr is back and the warriors are still killing; what does that say about the team and Luke's coaching?


That Steve Kerr may not be a worse coach than Luke Walton?
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2016 3:43 am    Post subject:

fiendishoc wrote:
Outspoken wrote:
kerr is back and the warriors are still killing; what does that say about the team and Luke's coaching?


That Steve Kerr may not be a worse coach than Luke Walton?


people really said luke is a better coach than kerr?

I think it says a lot about the team and system in place. not to say that luke was or is overrated as a coach (we don't know how luke would do as a coach), but the evaluation of what luke did this season is blown out of proportion.

this is not to say if I want or don't want luke - just throwing that out there because it seems if a person is objectively agreeing with or going against the pros and cons of things, that people are invested in, they always seem to think the person has an agenda.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2016 4:22 am    Post subject:

Outspoken wrote:
fiendishoc wrote:
Outspoken wrote:
kerr is back and the warriors are still killing; what does that say about the team and Luke's coaching?


That Steve Kerr may not be a worse coach than Luke Walton?


people really said luke is a better coach than kerr?

I think it says a lot about the team and system in place. not to say that luke was or is overrated as a coach (we don't know how luke would do as a coach), but the evaluation of what luke did this season is blown out of proportion.

this is not to say if I want or don't want luke - just throwing that out there because it seems if a person is objectively agreeing with or going against the pros and cons of things, that people are invested in, they always seem to think the person has an agenda.


No one said it, but I'm pretty sure no one expected the Warriors to fall apart when Kerr came back either. The question mark about Walton wasn't about his basketball knowledge or intelligence. Most people expected him to be a good coaching candidate sooner or later. With his youth and relative inexperience it was about his abilities as a leader and game manager. I think he answered that pretty well, and if we don't hire him, I'm sure someone else will.

Quote:
this is not to say if I want or don't want luke - just throwing that out there because it seems if a person is objectively agreeing with or going against the pros and cons of things, that people are invested in, they always seem to think the person has an agenda.


A person might have an agenda if he uses an argument in favor of one coach and then turns around and uses that same argument AGAINST another coach, and regarding the same team. (not directed at you)
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2016 9:40 am    Post subject:

Outspoken wrote:
kerr is back and the warriors are still killing; what does that say about the team and Luke's coaching?


It says the team is really, really good and that Luke did a good job of coaching them. What more can it say? It sure as hell doesn't say that Luke cannot coach an NBA team. Would one expect him to come here and the Lakers win 60 games? I guess if one is an idiot they would, but most logical fans see a young mind who is up on current NBA practices and methods that would be an improvement over Scott who is none of those things. Some here act like Luke being involved with a successful team like the Warriors is a negative while ignoring his exposure to practice and game planning that is obviously working. They think that is a bad thing, while it is a good thing.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2016 9:47 am    Post subject:

Even though game was a blowout.

What i noticed from both kerr and pop was they both call timeouts to kill any momentum the other team is gaining. Even when warriors up by 15, Kerr calls timeout and even gets T.

The only coach not calling a time out during a run worked for was Phil.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2016 9:49 am    Post subject:

textbook wrote:
Even though game was a blowout.

What i noticed from both kerr and pop was they both call timeouts to kill any momentum the other team is gaining. Even when warriors up by 15, Kerr calls timeout and even gets T.

The only coach not calling a time out during a run worked for was Phil.


It actually worked for Luke this season. Not trying to say anything other than what was reported.

And if you're going to do that, it should be done for the right reasons. Not the Byron style of too lazy to make any adjustment whatsoever.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2016 10:48 am    Post subject:

People need to face reality.

If Luke wants to be a HC next year, HE WILL GET OFFERS.

The Lakers will be lucky if he considers us. It's quite possibly our only chance at a modern coach who can instill the right habits into our young guys.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2016 10:56 am    Post subject:

Im down for luke to be coach. But if everyone turns on him next year ill know you can please laker fans. Unless your phil.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2016 11:26 am    Post subject:

fiendishoc wrote:
Outspoken wrote:
fiendishoc wrote:
Outspoken wrote:
kerr is back and the warriors are still killing; what does that say about the team and Luke's coaching?


That Steve Kerr may not be a worse coach than Luke Walton?


people really said luke is a better coach than kerr?

I think it says a lot about the team and system in place. not to say that luke was or is overrated as a coach (we don't know how luke would do as a coach), but the evaluation of what luke did this season is blown out of proportion.

this is not to say if I want or don't want luke - just throwing that out there because it seems if a person is objectively agreeing with or going against the pros and cons of things, that people are invested in, they always seem to think the person has an agenda.


No one said it, but I'm pretty sure no one expected the Warriors to fall apart when Kerr came back either. The question mark about Walton wasn't about his basketball knowledge or intelligence. Most people expected him to be a good coaching candidate sooner or later. With his youth and relative inexperience it was about his abilities as a leader and game manager. I think he answered that pretty well, and if we don't hire him, I'm sure someone else will.

Quote:
this is not to say if I want or don't want luke - just throwing that out there because it seems if a person is objectively agreeing with or going against the pros and cons of things, that people are invested in, they always seem to think the person has an agenda.


A person might have an agenda if he uses an argument in favor of one coach and then turns around and uses that same argument AGAINST another coach, and regarding the same team. (not directed at you)


fair point, and I agree with you about the agenda. I don't think the team would've fell apart because the system is still in place and they have the same players running it.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2016 11:29 am    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
Outspoken wrote:
kerr is back and the warriors are still killing; what does that say about the team and Luke's coaching?


It says the team is really, really good and that Luke did a good job of coaching them. What more can it say? It sure as hell doesn't say that Luke cannot coach an NBA team. Would one expect him to come here and the Lakers win 60 games? I guess if one is an idiot they would, but most logical fans see a young mind who is up on current NBA practices and methods that would be an improvement over Scott who is none of those things. Some here act like Luke being involved with a successful team like the Warriors is a negative while ignoring his exposure to practice and game planning that is obviously working. They think that is a bad thing, while it is a good thing.


good response and I agree with your sentiments.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2016 4:00 pm    Post subject:

22 wrote:
People need to face reality.

If Luke wants to be a HC next year, HE WILL GET OFFERS.


The Lakers will be lucky if he considers us. It's quite possibly our only chance at a modern coach who can instill the right habits into our young guys.


And if he goes to a rebuilding team it will be Rambis and / or Shaw 2.0 all over again.


"Lakers will be lucky", Luke ain't some Golden Child to a rebuilding team. The Warriors were gonna do what they did with or without him.

Luke leaving the Warriors after this year would be a very dumb move on his part, and going to a rebuilding situation would be an even worse decision.

Phil disciples excel when they go to teams that are already established but need to go over the top.

People may not want to hear this, but the Clippers would be a better landing place for a guy like Luke. Because they are currently IN that area.

Luckily I don't think Doc is gonna relinquish power nor step down from the bench.

But a team that is stuck at the 4th seed and always 'comes up short' but still has some years left in them to make a run, is the kind that a Phil disciple should go to. Heck Brian Shaw right now would be a better coach for the Clippers. Much as people probably don't wanna hear that one either.

The Lakers right now need a coach that's gonna be rebuilding and get them to the point they're a 45-50 win team on a consistent basis, and if that coach can't take them over the top that is when you go after a Phil disciple.

The Lakers are 3-5 years away from even needing a coach like Luke would be after 3-4 years of continued experience with Golden State let alone chasing one.

If he goes to a rebuilding situation (such as ours) he will flop like every other Phil disciple that tried to build from the ground up. If he goes to a team that just needs to get over the top after falling short and is a consistent 4-5 seed with some years left in them, then that is where he'd be best utilized.

Ultimately he'd be best served to stay with the Warriors. Particularly after they continue tearing up the league under Kerr the same way they did under Luke, which will take some shine off the hype and point more in the direction of Golden State just being that good. Which is good for Luke in the long run.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2016 4:04 pm    Post subject:

MJST wrote:
22 wrote:
People need to face reality.

If Luke wants to be a HC next year, HE WILL GET OFFERS.


The Lakers will be lucky if he considers us. It's quite possibly our only chance at a modern coach who can instill the right habits into our young guys.


And if he goes to a rebuilding team it will be Rambis and / or Shaw 2.0 all over again.


"Lakers will be lucky", Luke ain't some Golden Child to a rebuilding team. The Warriors were gonna do what they did with or without him.

Luke leaving the Warriors after this year would be a very dumb move on his part, and going to a rebuilding situation would be an even worse decision.

Phil disciples excel when they go to teams that are already established but need to go over the top.

People may not want to hear this, but the Clippers would be a better landing place for a guy like Luke. Because they are currently IN that area.

Luckily I don't think Doc is gonna relinquish power nor step down from the bench.

But a team that is stuck at the 4th seed and always 'comes up short' but still has some years left in them to make a run, is the kind that a Phil disciple should go to. Heck Brian Shaw right now would be a better coach for the Clippers. Much as people probably don't wanna hear that one either.

The Lakers right now need a coach that's gonna be rebuilding and get them to the point they're a 45-50 win team on a consistent basis, and if that coach can't take them over the top that is when you go after a Phil disciple.

The Lakers are 3-5 years away from even needing a coach like Luke would be after 3-4 years of continued experience with Golden State let alone chasing one.

If he goes to a rebuilding situation (such as ours) he will flop like every other Phil disciple that tried to build from the ground up. If he goes to a team that just needs to get over the top after falling short and is a consistent 4-5 seed with some years left in them, then that is where he'd be best utilized.

Ultimately he'd be best served to stay with the Warriors. Particularly after they continue tearing up the league under Kerr the same way they did under Luke, which will take some shine off the hype and point more in the direction of Golden State just being that good. Which is good for Luke in the long run.


I understand your point about rebuilding, though I think you can also make a case for having a young team grow and gel with a coach.

But I like you're passion. You could merge your posts into a rather comprehensive thesis.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2016 4:09 pm    Post subject:

MJST wrote:
22 wrote:
People need to face reality.

If Luke wants to be a HC next year, HE WILL GET OFFERS.


The Lakers will be lucky if he considers us. It's quite possibly our only chance at a modern coach who can instill the right habits into our young guys.


And if he goes to a rebuilding team it will be Rambis and / or Shaw 2.0 all over again.


"Lakers will be lucky", Luke ain't some Golden Child to a rebuilding team. The Warriors were gonna do what they did with or without him.

Luke leaving the Warriors after this year would be a very dumb move on his part, and going to a rebuilding situation would be an even worse decision.

Phil disciples excel when they go to teams that are already established but need to go over the top.

People may not want to hear this, but the Clippers would be a better landing place for a guy like Luke. Because they are currently IN that area.

Luckily I don't think Doc is gonna relinquish power nor step down from the bench.

But a team that is stuck at the 4th seed and always 'comes up short' but still has some years left in them to make a run, is the kind that a Phil disciple should go to. Heck Brian Shaw right now would be a better coach for the Clippers. Much as people probably don't wanna hear that one either.

The Lakers right now need a coach that's gonna be rebuilding and get them to the point they're a 45-50 win team on a consistent basis, and if that coach can't take them over the top that is when you go after a Phil disciple.

The Lakers are 3-5 years away from even needing a coach like Luke would be after 3-4 years of continued experience with Golden State let alone chasing one.

If he goes to a rebuilding situation (such as ours) he will flop like every other Phil disciple that tried to build from the ground up. If he goes to a team that just needs to get over the top after falling short and is a consistent 4-5 seed with some years left in them, then that is where he'd be best utilized.

Ultimately he'd be best served to stay with the Warriors. Particularly after they continue tearing up the league under Kerr the same way they did under Luke, which will take some shine off the hype and point more in the direction of Golden State just being that good. Which is good for Luke in the long run.


I disagree with so much of this.

I don't even see Luke as a "Phil disciple" either.

Bottom line is Luke is a guy who understands the modern game of basketball, has championship experience as a player and a coach, knows the Lakers organization, and is young enough to relate to our current young core.

If you could grow a coach in the lab for the current team, it would be Luke Walton.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2016 5:21 pm    Post subject:

22 wrote:
MJST wrote:
22 wrote:
People need to face reality.

If Luke wants to be a HC next year, HE WILL GET OFFERS.


The Lakers will be lucky if he considers us. It's quite possibly our only chance at a modern coach who can instill the right habits into our young guys.


And if he goes to a rebuilding team it will be Rambis and / or Shaw 2.0 all over again.


"Lakers will be lucky", Luke ain't some Golden Child to a rebuilding team. The Warriors were gonna do what they did with or without him.

Luke leaving the Warriors after this year would be a very dumb move on his part, and going to a rebuilding situation would be an even worse decision.

Phil disciples excel when they go to teams that are already established but need to go over the top.

People may not want to hear this, but the Clippers would be a better landing place for a guy like Luke. Because they are currently IN that area.

Luckily I don't think Doc is gonna relinquish power nor step down from the bench.

But a team that is stuck at the 4th seed and always 'comes up short' but still has some years left in them to make a run, is the kind that a Phil disciple should go to. Heck Brian Shaw right now would be a better coach for the Clippers. Much as people probably don't wanna hear that one either.

The Lakers right now need a coach that's gonna be rebuilding and get them to the point they're a 45-50 win team on a consistent basis, and if that coach can't take them over the top that is when you go after a Phil disciple.

The Lakers are 3-5 years away from even needing a coach like Luke would be after 3-4 years of continued experience with Golden State let alone chasing one.

If he goes to a rebuilding situation (such as ours) he will flop like every other Phil disciple that tried to build from the ground up. If he goes to a team that just needs to get over the top after falling short and is a consistent 4-5 seed with some years left in them, then that is where he'd be best utilized.

Ultimately he'd be best served to stay with the Warriors. Particularly after they continue tearing up the league under Kerr the same way they did under Luke, which will take some shine off the hype and point more in the direction of Golden State just being that good. Which is good for Luke in the long run.


I disagree with so much of this.

I don't even see Luke as a "Phil disciple" either.

Bottom line is Luke is a guy who understands the modern game of basketball, has championship experience as a player and a coach, knows the Lakers organization, and is young enough to relate to our current young core.

If you could grow a coach in the lab for the current team, it would be Luke Walton.


You could throw Brian Shaw and Kurt Rambis in the same category.

Did diddily squat for them in a rebuilding situation.

Again, if you want to get Luke, it needs to be him coming into a situation similar to how Kerr is. That's the only way he's going to succeed. Throwing him into a rebuild situation again.. we've already SEEN what happens. Luke's not "special" he's not "unique" when it comes to this. Rambis and Shaw all had that championship experience as assistants, through multiple championships and Shaw even went to Indiana where he was near single handedly responsible for not only some of their principles with Vogel BUT as well as the development of Paul George.

The guy was BIG hyped and Lakers fans hated on this organization for YEARS for not getting him.. then he was put on Denver. What happened? It all fell down. Now if Brian Shaw had went to a situation like say... OKC after they lost in the finals to the Heat, then you would have seen the benefit of all of that. But it went ot waste on a rebuilding team with no structure. The other problem with Shaw is he went into a team like the Nuggets, and tried to throw out what they did that worked and implement all this other stuff.

That was Shaw's fatal flaw, and again it's what Kerr didn't do.

What Kerr did was bring in a guy that could improve and tighten up the offense(which Mark Jackson didn't do) and didn't touch any of the defensive principles that Jackson put in, just got a guy who would continue on that.

This is what Shaw "should" have done in Denver, but he didn't, and he failed.

If the Lakers had actually WANTED success they'd have done something similar to what I've been saying to do.. such as this.

After they fired Mike D'antoni, they'd realize that the offense wasn't the big problem but the defense was.

So they'd hire Jason Kidd whom is a defensive coach(and the very next season coached the Bucks to a top 4 defense, mostly with Brandon Knight, till the Bucks FO screwed that up by trading Knight and getting MCW).

But anyway, signing Jason Kidd, and then bringing Gentry as the assistant? What that would have done was keep our offensive principles in place that worked, but also brought in a defensive coach that was willing to listen and work with Gentry.

Then we'd have a cohesive identity both offensively and defensively. Rather than hitting the reset button on an identity that was forged through 2 seasons.

if that happens we'd be looking at the playoffs right now and likely at the 6th or 7th seed. Now tell me if that doesn't sound better or if when you look at that scenario that we wouldn't have been in a much better place right now with just those two changes to personnel...

But they didn't do that.. they hired Byron Scott and reset both offensive and defensive identities and guess what. we're still going nowhere and don't even have an identity to take anything from to say to the next guy 'this works, and this doesn't so we can focus on this' nope.. NOTHING works.

So as I said, if you WANT Luke to coach this team and you want it to be successful, you need to get the Lakers to a point where they are winning 50ish games consistently or at the very least are a 3rd-5th seed consistently and have the talent but just need to go over the top.

Then what you do is after about the 2nd year of falling short, you bring in a coach like Luke (who will be more than experienced then) and implement him. You specify what doesn't work and what does work (for example, if we're a good defensive team such as top 5, but our offense is 10-15th in the league) then you essentially know what Luke is coming in to change and not change, you trust him to hire a VERY good offensive assistant that will get our offense higher, and a defensive assistant that will preach the same principles we had that were working.

At that point Luke can focus on strategy and coaching, and doesn't have to worry about the X's and O's because the assistants can handle it.

THAT is what you do if you want Luke to coach this team to success and bring a Phil disciple over the top and help the team succeed.

You don't throw them into a rebuilding situation and say "build this from the ground up." Because it doesn't .. work. And it has proven that it doesn't work time and time again.

But the scenario I gave you has proven to work, not just with Phil but with now Kerr as well. And I'd rather follow the formula that works, than trying to continue to rehash the one that's failed over and over again and keep saying to myself "this time will be different." as another season is flushed down the drain.


Last edited by MJST on Tue Jan 26, 2016 5:29 pm; edited 2 times in total
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anpherknee
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2016 5:22 pm    Post subject:

ITS SO LIT IN HERE
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70sdude
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2016 5:35 pm    Post subject:

I suspect Luke may be as unqualified as anyone (Byron included) to begin to resolve the problems with the play of the Lakers today.

To me, it's likely that it's an ill-advised leap of faith to assume Luke's ability to keep the throttle pressed on a defending championship roster relates at all to our situ with the LAL.

I think it's more likely that an entirely different coaching mindset and skill-set is required to build a winner from a cellar-dweller, especially one of such different composition. We have young unproven players as a group who are lacking good shooting skills. That's not similar to the GSW at all.
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DoubleClutch
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2016 5:38 pm    Post subject:

22 wrote:
MJST wrote:
22 wrote:
People need to face reality.

If Luke wants to be a HC next year, HE WILL GET OFFERS.


The Lakers will be lucky if he considers us. It's quite possibly our only chance at a modern coach who can instill the right habits into our young guys.


And if he goes to a rebuilding team it will be Rambis and / or Shaw 2.0 all over again.


"Lakers will be lucky", Luke ain't some Golden Child to a rebuilding team. The Warriors were gonna do what they did with or without him.

Luke leaving the Warriors after this year would be a very dumb move on his part, and going to a rebuilding situation would be an even worse decision.

Phil disciples excel when they go to teams that are already established but need to go over the top.

People may not want to hear this, but the Clippers would be a better landing place for a guy like Luke. Because they are currently IN that area.

Luckily I don't think Doc is gonna relinquish power nor step down from the bench.

But a team that is stuck at the 4th seed and always 'comes up short' but still has some years left in them to make a run, is the kind that a Phil disciple should go to. Heck Brian Shaw right now would be a better coach for the Clippers. Much as people probably don't wanna hear that one either.

The Lakers right now need a coach that's gonna be rebuilding and get them to the point they're a 45-50 win team on a consistent basis, and if that coach can't take them over the top that is when you go after a Phil disciple.

The Lakers are 3-5 years away from even needing a coach like Luke would be after 3-4 years of continued experience with Golden State let alone chasing one.

If he goes to a rebuilding situation (such as ours) he will flop like every other Phil disciple that tried to build from the ground up. If he goes to a team that just needs to get over the top after falling short and is a consistent 4-5 seed with some years left in them, then that is where he'd be best utilized.

Ultimately he'd be best served to stay with the Warriors. Particularly after they continue tearing up the league under Kerr the same way they did under Luke, which will take some shine off the hype and point more in the direction of Golden State just being that good. Which is good for Luke in the long run.


I disagree with so much of this.

I don't even see Luke as a "Phil disciple" either.

Bottom line is Luke is a guy who understands the modern game of basketball, has championship experience as a player and a coach, knows the Lakers organization, and is young enough to relate to our current young core.

If you could grow a coach in the lab for the current team, it would be Luke Walton.


Yeah I don't really see Luke as a Phil disciple either. Luke never really assistant coached under Phil, and I seriously doubt he would try to install the Triangle if he came here.

I think the failures of Rambis and Shaw had as much to do with trying to run the Triangle without Tex Winter as it did with Phil's inability to groom assistant coaches into leaders.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2016 5:46 pm    Post subject:

At time point, the Warriors have a very solid foundation and cohesive unit that coaching is not as imperative as it is on other teams. The guys almost coach themselves and need less guidance.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 3:01 am    Post subject:

MJST wrote:
Steve Kerr did it with the Warriors as well.

So IF you want Luke to replicate that kind of success, because the evidence has been put in front of you what happens when you try to bring a guy like that to a rebuilding situation (failure) and what happens when you bring them to an established one in need of just a few tweaks to go over the top(success).


You make it sound that it was all Kerr and Luke had no hand in it. Kerr said multiple times that Luke was instrumental in putting the system in.

Here, Kerr himself alludes to the adjustments Luke made to the Dubs this year

Quote:

Kerr plans to keep some new plays Walton introduced, saying, ''Yeah, tough act to follow.''


Here's a quote on how Luke influenced Kerr to replace Bogut with Iguodala, his college buddy, in the starting lineup for Game 4 of the finals when they were down 2-1. Blatt could not adjust to that move and 3 games later it was game over.

Quote:
At 3 a.m., [Walton] texted Kerr with the idea, so the head coach would see it when he woke up. On Thursday morning, the staff met at the Ritz and debated the ramifications.


There's a reason why Kerr chose Walton to be the interim head coach over other more experienced assistant coaches. Its simple - take Luke out of the equation and they would most probably not be the champs last year.
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Last edited by twisted on Wed Jan 27, 2016 3:32 am; edited 3 times in total
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 3:11 am    Post subject:

Quote:
For those who want Blatt over Luke....

Quote:
Timeouts had been an issue already. Blatt mismanaged them early in the season and sometimes turned to Lue about when to execute certain timeouts. Teams can take advantage of certain mandatory timeouts and conserve options, something with which Blatt had issues.


http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/14629892/nba-final-unraveling-david-blatt

Quote:
During the first portion of the 2014-15 season, film sessions were a topic of discussion among the players. Blatt was reluctant to criticize star players even when they clearly messed up a play. This became routine. It got so bad that I'm told that Lue finally intervened, stood up and demanded that somebody rewind the footage so that he could get on members of The Big 3.

During team scrimmages, players competed aggressively but bit their tongues as Blatt frequently blew his whistle to call ticky-tack or phantom fouls for his go-to players. One player said sometimes Blatt didn't even have a whistle and would yell at the top of his lungs to stop play and call a foul if one of his stars acted as if he was hit.


Quote:
Blatt had trouble drawing up plays out of timeouts. He would freeze up and waste precious seconds, one player said. He would even draw up plays for players who weren't in the game, another player said.


Quote:
In the closeout game of the Eastern Conference Finals, a game the Cavaliers trounced the Atlanta Hawks by 30 to sweep the series; Blatt had signaled for Tristan Thompson to reenter in the closing minutes with the game already wrapped up. This was when Thompson was the team's most valuable big man with Kevin Love out of commission with a dislocated shoulder.

The bench couldn't believe it. They were shocked, as was Thompson, who never questions authority. LeBron James told Blatt to put somebody else in the game


http://www.cleveland.com/cavs/index.ssf/2016/01/why_david_blatt_got_fired_and.html


MJST wrote:
You can watch this on why David Blatt was fired, and ask yourself how much of it was him and how much of it was the players

This is why David Blatt was fired


pretty darning evidence in one aspect for sure..

Also note the website you are posting that article from...


Sure, it was all on the players, and none of it because of his incompetence. Except we all saw what he did.

Quote:
Cleveland Cavaliers coach David Blatt attempted to call a timeout in the closing seconds of Sunday's 86-84 Game 4 win against the Chicago Bulls despite the fact he had none remaining.

"I almost blew it," Blatt told reporters after the game.

Blatt could have been called for a technical foul. Instead, the Cavaliers went down to the other end of the floor and LeBron James won the game at the buzzer with a fadeaway jumper. James overruled Blatt's original play call, which had him inbounding the ball from under the basket.


http://www.si.com/nba/2015/05/10/cleveland-cavaliers-david-blatt-timeout-video
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