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Mike@LG
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 Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2015 3:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | And ISOs are literally the only looks he gets in this offense. |
Yet Nance gets the best looks on the team and rarely gets Iso. That's what I mean by it being a player/skills issue.
Nance gets it, then gets rid of it, and either drives or screens immediately. Real urgency out there.
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AC Green's V-Card
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| Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2015 3:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Mike@LG wrote: | | 22 wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | 22 wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | Quote: | | but Mike, in that sense everyone who shoots the ball is a ball stopper lol. |
You know they're holding the ball too long if it's longer than 2 seconds. |
In the times he does this, where the play IS NOT his number being called to score, that accounts for maybe 1-2 possessions per game. Hardly a detriment to anything.
I'm not counting it as a ball stopping play if the coach calls a low post iso or top of the key face-up from him |
You should, because within this offense, there is no clear-cut #1, #2, or #3 option. Do you really think GSW has something that clear cut? We know it in terms of PPG. We don't know it when their best lineup, Green, Barnes, Iggy, Klay, and Curry are on the floor. Barnes and Green get 8-12 point quarters. Iggy is facilitating sometimes, not Curry. The constant is passing to a better shot. |
Agreed that is how GSW works, but that is def NOT how our team works.
Like I said, the players for the most part are doing what they are being told. You haven't heard any of the coaches saying they're not. You've only heard them say stuff like "man up" "play harder" "be mean" "bring more effort" etc.
Our system is certainly nothing like GSW and that's not on the players. You have a coach who doesn't care how many times Kobe shoots even when he's ice cold. Kobe even said he had no concept of where to be last night. If he was confused what do you expect out of Randle in his rookie season?
If we were to attempt any kind of pace and space system they need to switch Randle and Hibbert offensively until Randle gets the jumpshot down. That would give you a bit better spacing |
But the point is to try and make the team work that way. If you would like to blame Byron, so be it. I think it's an individual player issue. |
Like it or not, the product on the court is a result of a head coach's ability to teach and communicate ideas. And if you want to pin the blame on assistants, who put together that staff? |
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22
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| Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2015 3:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Mike@LG wrote: | | Quote: | | And ISOs are literally the only looks he gets in this offense. |
Yet Nance gets the best looks on the team and rarely gets Iso. That's what I mean by it being a player/skills issue.
Nance gets it, then gets rid of it, and either drives or screens immediately. Real urgency out there. |
Nance can't ISO. He doesn't have the skills for it. He's scored about two times on a drive everything else is 17 footer (looks Randle gets) or garbage clean ups (looks Randle gets).
That and like 2 lobs. Keep in mind Nance plays against teams' 2nd units too.
So nowhere do I see him getting better looks than Julius. Nor do I see improved flow on O. Only difference is he won't ISO because he knows he can't |
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AC Green's V-Card
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| Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2015 3:29 pm Post subject: |
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Nance is also the son of a very successful NBA player and played four years in college. His BBIQ is very, very good.
Which is fine, everyone comes from different backgrounds, but it's up to the coach to get everyone on the same page. |
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22
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| Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2015 3:32 pm Post subject: |
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| AC Green's V-Card wrote: | Nance is also the son of a very successful NBA player and played four years in college. His BBIQ is very, very good.
Which is fine, everyone comes from different backgrounds, but it's up to the coach to get everyone on the same page. |
yup, much less complicated role in the O too. I would expect him to be a faster decision maker at the moment |
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22
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| Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2015 3:40 pm Post subject: |
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Back on topic,
If we somehow wind up with Simmons, my first phone call would be to Indy to see how interested they are in rebuilding around a Simmons/Turner core. |
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KeepItRealOrElse
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| Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2015 3:41 pm Post subject: |
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| You can bet that if Luke is the coach next year(or the Hawks assistant) Randle will be moving the ball much more efficiently. So I wouldn't view his ball stopping as something to be a career long indictment. His issue really is a result of the Lakers not having a modern offense, no spacing, no pace, minimal flow even if the ball is moved |
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22
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| Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2015 3:42 pm Post subject: |
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| KeepItRealOrElse wrote: | | You can bet that if Luke is the coach next year(or the Hawks assistant) Randle will be moving the ball much more efficiently. So I wouldn't view his ball stopping as something to be a career long indictment. His issue really is a result of the Lakers not having a modern offense, no spacing, no pace, minimal flow even if the ball is moved |
1000% agreed KIROE |
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Mike@LG
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Location: Orange County, CA
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| Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2015 4:44 pm Post subject: |
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| AC Green's V-Card wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | 22 wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | 22 wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | Quote: | | but Mike, in that sense everyone who shoots the ball is a ball stopper lol. |
You know they're holding the ball too long if it's longer than 2 seconds. |
In the times he does this, where the play IS NOT his number being called to score, that accounts for maybe 1-2 possessions per game. Hardly a detriment to anything.
I'm not counting it as a ball stopping play if the coach calls a low post iso or top of the key face-up from him |
You should, because within this offense, there is no clear-cut #1, #2, or #3 option. Do you really think GSW has something that clear cut? We know it in terms of PPG. We don't know it when their best lineup, Green, Barnes, Iggy, Klay, and Curry are on the floor. Barnes and Green get 8-12 point quarters. Iggy is facilitating sometimes, not Curry. The constant is passing to a better shot. |
Agreed that is how GSW works, but that is def NOT how our team works.
Like I said, the players for the most part are doing what they are being told. You haven't heard any of the coaches saying they're not. You've only heard them say stuff like "man up" "play harder" "be mean" "bring more effort" etc.
Our system is certainly nothing like GSW and that's not on the players. You have a coach who doesn't care how many times Kobe shoots even when he's ice cold. Kobe even said he had no concept of where to be last night. If he was confused what do you expect out of Randle in his rookie season?
If we were to attempt any kind of pace and space system they need to switch Randle and Hibbert offensively until Randle gets the jumpshot down. That would give you a bit better spacing |
But the point is to try and make the team work that way. If you would like to blame Byron, so be it. I think it's an individual player issue. |
Like it or not, the product on the court is a result of a head coach's ability to teach and communicate ideas. And if you want to pin the blame on assistants, who put together that staff? |
The entire FO. I still think it's the assistant's job to point out execution errors. Those are details. Coach should work on big picture.
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Mike@LG
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| Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2015 4:45 pm Post subject: |
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| 22 wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | Quote: | | And ISOs are literally the only looks he gets in this offense. |
Yet Nance gets the best looks on the team and rarely gets Iso. That's what I mean by it being a player/skills issue.
Nance gets it, then gets rid of it, and either drives or screens immediately. Real urgency out there. |
Nance can't ISO. He doesn't have the skills for it. He's scored about two times on a drive everything else is 17 footer (looks Randle gets) or garbage clean ups (looks Randle gets).
That and like 2 lobs. Keep in mind Nance plays against teams' 2nd units too.
So nowhere do I see him getting better looks than Julius. Nor do I see improved flow on O. Only difference is he won't ISO because he knows he can't |
You're right, he can't iso. That's also why the ball moves so well when he's on the floor and he always takes high percentage shots.
I actually think he has an outside shot at being a better player than Randle, not because of Iso ability, because of excellent fit by skills/athleticism/size.
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Mike@LG
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| Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2015 4:47 pm Post subject: |
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| 22 wrote: | Back on topic,
If we somehow wind up with Simmons, my first phone call would be to Indy to see how interested they are in rebuilding around a Simmons/Turner core. |
I'd keep Simmons. Honestly, the two standout guys for me are still Simmons, Dunn, and Levert. I really want to see Levert get strength and excel, because, IMHO, he can be a next level Clarkson. Speed, 7'1" wingspan, playmaking, mid-range game.
Dunn, I see a hint of Wade, a hint of CP3 with PnR play. I know those are huge names and his level of competition isn't great, but 50% assist rate, amazing steal rate right now, and his biggest issue IMHO is the 3pt shot, which isn't terrible. I can forgive the turnovers when his assist rate was so high last year. Excellent height/size/strength at PG too. Very good athlete.
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Mike@LG
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| Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2015 4:50 pm Post subject: |
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| KeepItRealOrElse wrote: | | You can bet that if Luke is the coach next year(or the Hawks assistant) Randle will be moving the ball much more efficiently. So I wouldn't view his ball stopping as something to be a career long indictment. His issue really is a result of the Lakers not having a modern offense, no spacing, no pace, minimal flow even if the ball is moved |
Disagree. I think a player can decide to move the ball at will, regardless of offensive structure.
I somewhat think ball-stopping will be a potential issue. He showed great Iso skills against Draymond Green last night.
I just really wish that if he caught the ball in the high post, he would throw to the corner man, and do a straight give-and-go, just like Green, Porzingis, and other up-and-coming PFs.
Or at least go straight to baseline PnR instead of reading, ball-pounding, stutter step, spin/change of direction for a potential charge/tough, contested shot.
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AC Green's V-Card
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| Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2015 5:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Mike@LG wrote: | | The entire FO. I still think it's the assistant's job to point out execution errors. Those are details. Coach should work on big picture. |
You're right, Byron can't run every single thing on the team. But it all starts at the top, and it's the head coach's job to fill his staff with competent assistants.
| Byron Scott wrote: | | “I’m excited to have completed my staff with a group of individuals who each possess unique skills, but all share my vision for the future of this team.” |
One of the many reasons Joe Lacob handed Mark Jackson his pink slip.
| Quote: | "Carte blanche. Take my wallet. Do whatever it is to get the best assistants there are in the world. Period. End of story. Don't want to hear it. And (Jackson's) answer . . . was, 'Well, I have the best staff.' No you don't. And so with Steve, very, very different."
"You can't have a staff underneath you that isn't that good," Lacob said. "And if you're going to get better, you've got to have really good assistants. You've got to have people that can be there to replace you. We all know this from all of our companies. It's . . . Management 101. A lot of people on the outside couldn't understand it when we (fired Jackson)." |
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MJST
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| Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2015 5:24 pm Post subject: |
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Simmons can play 3-5 in this NBA so I still wouldn't worry about his synergy with Randle. Theyd have it just fine
Anyway we'd have to land him first and if landing hI'm get a proper freaking coach. |
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nickuku
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| Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2015 5:26 pm Post subject: |
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If we get Simmons I'm all for trading Julius
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KeepItRealOrElse
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| Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2015 5:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Mike@LG wrote: | | KeepItRealOrElse wrote: | | You can bet that if Luke is the coach next year(or the Hawks assistant) Randle will be moving the ball much more efficiently. So I wouldn't view his ball stopping as something to be a career long indictment. His issue really is a result of the Lakers not having a modern offense, no spacing, no pace, minimal flow even if the ball is moved |
Disagree. I think a player can decide to move the ball at will, regardless of offensive structure.
I somewhat think ball-stopping will be a potential issue. He showed great Iso skills against Draymond Green last night.
I just really wish that if he caught the ball in the high post, he would throw to the corner man, and do a straight give-and-go, just like Green, Porzingis, and other up-and-coming PFs.
Or at least go straight to baseline PnR instead of reading, ball-pounding, stutter step, spin/change of direction for a potential charge/tough, contested shot. |
Of course a player can and probly should look to move the ball regardless, but it's not a staple or construct of this offense - Not like other modern offenses where it's 100% mandatory, and you see the fruits of your labor doing that.
His vision at the pinch post is indeed terrible.
He's a really good playmaker in transition with his dribble handoffs and kicking to open shooters at the 3point line. Was driving and kicking in the halfcourt in preseason. His IQ is just wavering and he's not being coached up to make the right reads. In other offenses he'll have to make the right passes , it will be much more egregious and counter productive if he doesn't in those offenses. And honestly he'll have more space and better reads to make those passes - pick and pop will be better spaced and have a better lane to drive
Randle's lack of ball movement is consciously selfish but it's also a result of this offense and coach who doesn't hold him accountable - the latter two factors will change and he'll look much better. Will he be Boris Diaw, no, but he'll be satisfactory. And if not he won't play!! That's how those offenses work |
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KeepItRealOrElse
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| Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2015 5:42 pm Post subject: |
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Ingram having a really good game against Yale. Flashing the the wide skillset.
16points with 6 mins left. Competing on D |
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Dave20
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| Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2015 5:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Ingram is the real deal. He's 6'9 195 lbs with a 7'3 wingspan and guard skills. He's #1 on my big board. I like him much more then Simmons. |
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The Logo
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| Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2015 6:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Ingram is 6'9 and only 195 lbs? Dude needs to get in the weight room. How is he defensively? I'd imagine that he'd need to bulk up to at least be competent defensively. He's a better shooter than Simmons definitely, but I dunno how his game would fit with Julius, JC, and D'Angelo. |
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E_Wulf420
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| Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2015 6:28 pm Post subject: |
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What if the Celtics win the lottery and we end up in the 4th spot? 
 
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The Logo
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| Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2015 6:37 pm Post subject: |
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| E_Wulf420 wrote: | What if the Celtics win the lottery and we end up in the 4th spot?
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Don't jinx it. That'd definitely be the worst case scenario |
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The Logo
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| Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2015 6:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Sixers up 79-75 with three minutes left in the 4th. They were up by 11 earlier. |
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Chad09
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| Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2015 6:43 pm Post subject: |
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| The team with the worst record doesn't win the lottery the most. As long as the Lakers stay in the bottom 3...we are good. |
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MJST
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| Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2015 6:48 pm Post subject: |
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| The Logo wrote: | | Sixers up 79-75 with three minutes left in the 4th. They were up by 11 earlier. |
Don't do it to yourself....don't believe in them... |
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The Logo
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| Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2015 6:49 pm Post subject: |
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| MJST wrote: | | The Logo wrote: | | Sixers up 79-75 with three minutes left in the 4th. They were up by 11 earlier. |
Don't do it to yourself....don't believe in them... |
Jinxed it. Two lousy offensive possessions by Cannan leads to an open Crowder three that gives the Celdicks the lead  Two point lead 38 seconds left |
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