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RI Laker
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 Posted: Fri Feb 05, 2016 3:32 pm Post subject: |
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I will not get into a Simmons vs Green comparison because there is none to be had. I will not even comment on your take about Green being a great role player. The guy is all world on the defensive side of the ball and able to guard ANYBODY on the court. He is not a big time scorer (although he could be) because his team doesn't need him to be.
A guy that plays that kind of D, 34 minutes a game, averaging 14.5 point, 9.5 rebounds, 7.5 assists, 1.5 blocks, and almost 50 % from the floor and 42 % from three point range is a monster and a super star.
^lol! Great role player? No. Not even close. |
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CamReddish
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| Posted: Fri Feb 05, 2016 3:43 pm Post subject: |
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| RI Laker wrote: | I will not get into a Simmons vs Green comparison because there is none to be had. I will not even comment on your take about Green being a great role player. The guy is all world on the defensive side of the ball and able to guard ANYBODY on the court. He is not a big time scorer (although he could be) because his team doesn't need him to be.
A guy that plays that kind of D, 34 minutes a game, averaging 14.5 point, 9.5 rebounds, 7.5 assists, 1.5 blocks, and almost 50 % from the floor and 42 % from three point range is a monster and a super star.
^lol! Great role player? No. Not even close. |
Nice no comment. lol |
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Mike@LG
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| Posted: Fri Feb 05, 2016 4:53 pm Post subject: |
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There's already a debate about Draymond Green in another thread. I don't agree he's a franchise player either.
That being said, I'm glad he is showing more confidence with his mid-range jumpshot.
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Runway8
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Joined: 19 Apr 2003
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Location: La Jolla, San Diego
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| Posted: Fri Feb 05, 2016 6:17 pm Post subject: |
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| LOL! Clippers announcer, Mike Smith, I think... just said, "Hey, Lakers have won two in a roll!" Lawler then says, "Yeah, they're going to win themselves out of the Ben Simmons sweepstakes." |
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Daikatana
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| Posted: Fri Feb 05, 2016 8:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Lawler then says, "Yeah, they're going to win themselves out of the Ben Simmons sweepstakes." |
Oh Me Oh My! 
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Lakers_Jester
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| Posted: Fri Feb 05, 2016 10:20 pm Post subject: |
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| DoubleClutch wrote: | | Lakers_Jester wrote: | | Honestly I wanna see simmons randle tandem as a frontcourt. There's probably only a handful of centers who would legitimately make simmons pay at the 5. Cousins, dwight (maybe)....I think that's it? Porzingis? Strong bully post game is a lost art. |
You could probably put Randle on those guys. He's not a shot blocker, but he's strong as a bull and has great feet. He should be able to guard the post pretty well once he gets more experience. Besides, I think Simmons is a better help defender than a man defender at this point and vice versa for Randle. |
That actually could work well too! I think u r right on all points there. Nowadays with the lack of post players all you need to be able to do is hold ur position defensively (ala Dray green). Randle is strong as an ox. He could definitely do that. |
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PurpleAndGOAT
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| Posted: Fri Feb 05, 2016 10:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Daikatana wrote: | | Quote: | | Lawler then says, "Yeah, they're going to win themselves out of the Ben Simmons sweepstakes." |
Oh Me Oh My! |
"It's the law!"
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GoldenThroat
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| Posted: Sat Feb 06, 2016 4:25 am Post subject: |
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| nolookpass wrote: | After reading that Simmons and Russell were teammates in high school, it all made a lot of sense all of a sudden. Scott is not mismanaging the youngsters and the team in general due to incompetence but is following the FO 's plan. It might just be that the Lakers have already scouted Simmons enough to have come to the conclusion that he is a unique talent that would fit in perfectly alongside Russell (and the other young guys for that matter).
I very much like the concept of tanking for a glorious team like the Lakers, but after what has been done to the Lakers by Stern, I just can understand that they want to get some payback soon.
Still, I would prefer them trying to win 30 games this year. Maybe Simmons can do a Kobe on draft night and still fall in our lap. |
So we intentionally throw our entire season for (at best) a 25% chance of getting a player that we like?  |
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RI Laker
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Baron Von Humongous
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| Posted: Sat Feb 06, 2016 7:23 am Post subject: |
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So, do you think Jerry West might think Ben Simmons could develop into a top 10 player in the league one day? |
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saetarubia
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| Posted: Sat Feb 06, 2016 7:39 am Post subject: |
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Green is the 2nd most important player for GSW imo. Don't care what Klay did in regular season, but he was below par against the Rockets and Cavs. Green was the backbone of their defense if you watched those games against Houston. And his passion is infectious. Klay couldn't guard Harden either and they had to switch to Iggy who did a great job on him. Green deserves a spot on a contender for his defense alone. His passing and ability to stretch the floor is icing on the cake.
| Baron Von Humongous wrote: |
So, do you think Jerry West might think Ben Simmons could develop into a top 10 player in the league one day? |
Simmons will be the 1st or second option when it comes to offense. I am not sure he can have the same impact as Green on the defensive end. If he comes anywhere close, he's a sure shot MVP candidate. Not worried about his jump shot either. He just needs to develop one to make sure defenders don't leave him open rather than hit tough shots above them. Jordan Hill developed one and I don't see why Simmons can't with his skill set.
Last edited by saetarubia on Sat Feb 06, 2016 7:46 am; edited 1 time in total |
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KindCrippler2000
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| Posted: Sat Feb 06, 2016 7:45 am Post subject: |
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| IMO, Green is top 10 in terms of impact. You could make an argument for him being second in the MVP race behind Curry. He's a walking triple double at the moment. He's the engine behind the team. No way they win another one without him. |
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RI Laker
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| Posted: Sat Feb 06, 2016 7:59 am Post subject: |
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I am not trashing Simmons or ripping him in any way. I was just commenting on someone saying Green is a role player. My worthless take is that Green is a beast and a top player in the league. To say he is short of that or not a franchise player is in my opinion diminishing his worth and is short sighted. I pointed out that Jerry West feels the same way. Green is good to great in almost every aspect of the game.
I guess there are others who feel the same way as Green besides Jerry West. There is already talk of him getting some MVP recognition:
http://www.knbr.com/2016/01/04/draymond-green-has-entered-the-nba-mvp-conversation/ |
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Outspoken
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| Posted: Sat Feb 06, 2016 8:20 am Post subject: |
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| Draymond Green is a system player, that supports the star. |
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saetarubia
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| Posted: Sat Feb 06, 2016 8:35 am Post subject: |
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| Outspoken wrote: | | Draymond Green is a system player, that supports the star. |
He happens to be their most valuable player on the defensive end. So he's essential for the system to work. Else it'd be like MDA's system. GSW had the best defense last year along with offense. They are not as tight this year though even more fluid offensively. If they have to repeat, they will have to play the kind of defense they did last year during playoffs. |
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Megaton
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| Posted: Sat Feb 06, 2016 8:49 am Post subject: |
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Draymond Green is basically a better passing version of prime Shawn Marion.
Which is star level because the matrix was no joke at all in his prime with the Suns. Great defenders, very good shooters, rebounders, etc. Only difference is that Green is a much better passer than matrix was which is a huge complement.
So I don't get the Green talk here. He's a beast who I guess you could say is a system player, but he MAKES the system work rather than just being in a good system if that makes any sense. Same thing with Shawn Marion on MDA's system. Without Marion and Raja Bell on that Suns team, that defense would be absolutely dreadful and would be first round knockouts in the playoffs.
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LakerLogic
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| Posted: Sat Feb 06, 2016 8:57 am Post subject: |
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| I think when most people think of a franchise player, they think of someone who can create his own offense. It really just depends on how you define it. I think people are underestimating Green's IQ, which is off the charts. |
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Sina
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| Posted: Sat Feb 06, 2016 9:03 am Post subject: |
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| Warriors have a great coach in Kerr. They have a very good system which build chemistry among players and maximise their impact to the game, defensively and offensively. To certain extend, Green or Curry are over rated. Just like Parker in Spurs' system. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Sat Feb 06, 2016 9:10 am Post subject: |
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Why do people go to such lengths to discredit Dray Green?
Dude is a self-made man. Went from a 2nd round afterthought to legit all-NBA consideration.
I would LOVE to have a guy like him on our team, regardless of "system." I think his hustle, shooting, passing, defense works on any team.
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LakerLogic
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| Posted: Sat Feb 06, 2016 9:13 am Post subject: |
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| Some people consider Carmelo a franchise player. He can create his own offense. I would take Green over him any day of the week. |
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Mike@LG
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Location: Orange County, CA
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| Posted: Sat Feb 06, 2016 9:14 am Post subject: |
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| RI Laker wrote: | I am not trashing Simmons or ripping him in any way. I was just commenting on someone saying Green is a role player. My worthless take is that Green is a beast and a top player in the league. To say he is short of that or not a franchise player is in my opinion diminishing his worth and is short sighted. I pointed out that Jerry West feels the same way. Green is good to great in almost every aspect of the game.
I guess there are others who feel the same way as Green besides Jerry West. There is already talk of him getting some MVP recognition:
http://www.knbr.com/2016/01/04/draymond-green-has-entered-the-nba-mvp-conversation/ |
It's your opinion, and valid.
Others, like myself, have a completely different idea of what a franchise player looks like.
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Mike@LG
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| Posted: Sat Feb 06, 2016 9:21 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | Why do people go to such lengths to discredit Dray Green?
Dude is a self-made man. Went from a 2nd round afterthought to legit all-NBA consideration.
I would LOVE to have a guy like him on our team, regardless of "system." I think his hustle, shooting, passing, defense works on any team. |
It's not a discredit. It's just specifying one's idea of what a franchise player really is.
If you take Draymond Green out of GSW, do you choose him over Griffin? LeBron? Curry? PG? Durant? Westbrook? Kawhi Leonard? CP3? Anthony Davis? as a first player to start a team with?
I have a difficult time with that idea. I can't imagine a situation where, your team is down 2, you have 4 seconds on the clock, and you pass it to Draymond Green to go for a game tying shot, or game winner. I can trust that idea for the above listed players with ease. That is one quality I would expect of a franchise player, which is why I believe so much in franchise players being shot creators.
That being said, it's also highly underrated how well Thompson and Curry create shots off-the-ball. Both of them were SGs primarily in college and it shows.
Draymond is definitely self-made, made the best out of the Michigan St. system, and into such a well-rounded player, that he was considered a tweener with various skills, jack of all trades.
He still is. But I can't help but think the system and personnel fit him so well.
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Four Decade Bandwagon
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| Posted: Sat Feb 06, 2016 9:35 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | Why do people go to such lengths to discredit Dray Green?
Dude is a self-made man. Went from a 2nd round afterthought to legit all-NBA consideration.
I would LOVE to have a guy like him on our team, regardless of "system." I think his hustle, shooting, passing, defense works on any team. |
Tend to agree. Green would be an impact player on any team especially because of his contributions on the defensive side of the ball. Often overlooked when comparing status in the league. Green's rotations are as good as anyone in the NBA.
I too would be thrilled with him on the Lakers. Perhaps Simmons can develop into that player with a couple years of experience?
Another thought. I think Clarkson can develop into another 2nd round self made man. Only his second year and he is showing some good signs. Needs to improve his 3pt% some more and bring more intensity to his defense (new HC and defensive emphasis will make the difference IMO).
I know many people are looking at Derozan as a free agent this summer. Lakers may already have their Derozan type player if they do not trade him away.. Perhaps money can be spent elsewhere if he fills that role. |
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Mike@LG
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| Posted: Sat Feb 06, 2016 9:40 am Post subject: |
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| Four Decade Bandwagon wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | Why do people go to such lengths to discredit Dray Green?
Dude is a self-made man. Went from a 2nd round afterthought to legit all-NBA consideration.
I would LOVE to have a guy like him on our team, regardless of "system." I think his hustle, shooting, passing, defense works on any team. |
Tend to agree. Green would be an impact player on any team especially because of his contributions on the defensive side of the ball. Often overlooked when comparing status in the league. Green's rotations are as good as anyone in the NBA.
I too would be thrilled with him on the Lakers. Perhaps Simmons can develop into that player with a couple years of experience?
Another thought. I think Clarkson can develop into another 2nd round self made man. Only his second year and he is showing some good signs. Needs to improve his 3pt% some more and bring more intensity to his defense (new HC and defensive emphasis will make the difference IMO).
I know many people are looking at Derozan as a free agent this summer. Lakers may already have their Derozan type player if they do not trade him away.. Perhaps money can be spent elsewhere if he fills that role. |
Clarkson is a different kind of self-made player. He developed A LOT under Nash's tutelage, and IMHO, has plateaued a bit. No longer do I see the perimeter ISO creating shots that he practiced prior to his rookie year with additional coaching.
His biggest issue is handling perimeter traps and physical defense. I see him get bothered and just retreat instead of trying to create some space or evade defenders altogether. This is a large reason why I think he's a combo, and not a pure point. It's outside of just court vision, but ball-protection.
As for DeRozan, I can understand why people get down on him for his lack of 3pt %, but I will say that he is actually willing to take the shots, and he is streaky when he starts to hit. Not too much different from current Bryant, but fans don't mind.
After all, where else where the money be allotted to? Is it so bad to acquire an All-Star talent for max money? I don't think so.
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Megaton
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| Posted: Sat Feb 06, 2016 9:42 am Post subject: |
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| Four Decade Bandwagon wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | Why do people go to such lengths to discredit Dray Green?
Dude is a self-made man. Went from a 2nd round afterthought to legit all-NBA consideration.
I would LOVE to have a guy like him on our team, regardless of "system." I think his hustle, shooting, passing, defense works on any team. |
Tend to agree. Green would be an impact player on any team especially because of his contributions on the defensive side of the ball. Often overlooked when comparing status in the league. Green's rotations are as good as anyone in the NBA.
I too would be thrilled with him on the Lakers. Perhaps Simmons can develop into that player with a couple years of experience?
Another thought. I think Clarkson can develop into another 2nd round self made man. Only his second year and he is showing some good signs. Needs to improve his 3pt% some more and bring more intensity to his defense (new HC and defensive emphasis will make the difference IMO).
I know many people are looking at Derozan as a free agent this summer. Lakers may already have their Derozan type player if they do not trade him away.. Perhaps money can be spent elsewhere if he fills that role. |
I think Clarkson IMO is a better version of Derozen anyway, and you're right about his improvement. In this stupid Byron system, Clarkson is a 15+ scorer at 45% FG. I still believe he is right now a 20+ point scorer but Byron, like he does to the entire team especially Russell and Randle, is clearly holding Clarkson back from it.
But the Lakers FO recognize that Clarkson and Russell are the future backcourt for this team so I think they will always start together for a long time unless we sign both Durant and Derozen but that's a long shot with Durant so we will see about that.
Either way, the one thing this Lakers FO does well is draft really well so I'm glad we have a self made 2nd round pick of our own here as well as a future star PG and PF here. When we get the 1st pick from the lottery as well, we will be in amazing shape. 
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