OFFICIAL Class of 2015 Okafor/Mudiay/non-DLO Rookies Discussion
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wolfpaclaker
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2016 5:47 am    Post subject:

slinslin wrote:
wolfpaclaker wrote:
Pretty simple for me for the rookie team.

C Okafor
F Towns
F Porzingis
G Booker
G Russell

Actually love that team. 5 future all-stars there, IMO. Booker looks like Klay 2.0. Russell will be a stud in 2 years. Okafor's got some issues but in the right situation, I think at worst he'll be a Z-BO level all-star. Towns is unbelievably consistent and good, going to be a great player to build around. Hardest guy to call is KP, can't say how good he can be, but I think at least a Kirilenko/Marion hybrid type.


The only thing Booker and Klay have in common is that they are light-skinned and have a beautiful jumper.

Booker plays a lot more like Brandon Roy/James Harden. He is among league leaders at getting to the rim and he is a great passer for a shooting guard.

Ironic if he winds up being the Brandon Roy/James Harden of the draft and Russell becomes more of the more typical shooting guard who is heavily reliant on the jumper. I haven't seen enough of Booker to comment, but in the games I saw he did seem to rely heavily on the jumper. I didn't see great passing skill or great handles. He has good ones, for a SG. He's not purely a sniper. But from what I've seen, his bread and butter will be his jumpshot, coming off screens to get an open J, taking quick spot ups, etc.
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wolfpaclaker
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2016 5:56 am    Post subject:

Since some were bringing up, I looked it up on D'LO vs Booker.

Devin Booker vs Russell advanced stats

PER 12.2 vs 13.2 (Russ)
TS% 53.8 vs 50.3 (Book)
AST% 15.7 vs 21.5 (Russ)
USG% 22.8 vs 24.3 (Not really an advantage just to show usage rates)
WS/48 0.045 vs -0.001 (Book)
BPM -3.1 vs -1.7 (Russ)
O Rating 103 vs 95 (Book)
D Rating 113 vs 112 (Russ)

D'LO takes it 4-3.

I think it's pretty close, but there is no "only Laker fans would think Russell is better" stuff IMO. I'm a Russ fan, but not a blind fan in the sense that I overrate him. I think he has a lot of potential to keep getting better. He and Booker both will be very good, but I sense that Booker will wind up being the better shooter, and Russell the better playmaker/passer.
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slinslin
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2016 6:19 am    Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:
Since some were bringing up, I looked it up on D'LO vs Booker.

Devin Booker vs Russell advanced stats

PER 12.2 vs 13.2 (Russ)
TS% 53.8 vs 50.3 (Book)
AST% 15.7 vs 21.5 (Russ)
USG% 22.8 vs 24.3 (Not really an advantage just to show usage rates)
WS/48 0.045 vs -0.001 (Book)
BPM -3.1 vs -1.7 (Russ)
O Rating 103 vs 95 (Book)
D Rating 113 vs 112 (Russ)

D'LO takes it 4-3.

I think it's pretty close, but there is no "only Laker fans would think Russell is better" stuff IMO. I'm a Russ fan, but not a blind fan in the sense that I overrate him. I think he has a lot of potential to keep getting better. He and Booker both will be very good, but I sense that Booker will wind up being the better shooter, and Russell the better playmaker/passer.


Your comparison is beyond useless. For example their defense rating is virtually the same, yet the offensive rating is a massive difference in favor of Booker.

Otherwise I reccomend the eye test because it is fairly obvious.

Booker is the #1 option and is getting double teamed for a while now.

Booker is among league leaders in drive efficiency and pick and roll efficiency.

Booker averaged 22.3/3/5 in March alone.

Booker has the most 30+ scoring games of any rookie.
Booker has the most 30+ games as a rookie since Blake Griffin.
Booker is the 2nd youngest 30+ point scorer in NBA history (Lebron)
Booker has the most 30+ games as a teenage (Lebron, Melo, trailing KD by 1)
Booker is the 2nd youngest player in NBA history with a pts/ast double double (did it twice against golden state, once without turnovers)
Booker is the only NBA teenager with back to back 30+ games other than Lebron.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2016 6:39 am    Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:
Since some were bringing up, I looked it up on D'LO vs Booker.

Devin Booker vs Russell advanced stats

PER 12.2 vs 13.2 (Russ)
TS% 53.8 vs 50.3 (Book)
AST% 15.7 vs 21.5 (Russ)
USG% 22.8 vs 24.3 (Not really an advantage just to show usage rates)
WS/48 0.045 vs -0.001 (Book)
BPM -3.1 vs -1.7 (Russ)
O Rating 103 vs 95 (Book)
D Rating 113 vs 112 (Russ)

D'LO takes it 4-3.

I think it's pretty close, but there is no "only Laker fans would think Russell is better" stuff IMO. I'm a Russ fan, but not a blind fan in the sense that I overrate him. I think he has a lot of potential to keep getting better. He and Booker both will be very good, but I sense that Booker will wind up being the better shooter, and Russell the better playmaker/passer.


Pretty much. DLO's got the edge.
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2016 7:17 am    Post subject:

slinslin wrote:
wolfpaclaker wrote:
Since some were bringing up, I looked it up on D'LO vs Booker.

Devin Booker vs Russell advanced stats

PER 12.2 vs 13.2 (Russ)
TS% 53.8 vs 50.3 (Book)
AST% 15.7 vs 21.5 (Russ)
USG% 22.8 vs 24.3 (Not really an advantage just to show usage rates)
WS/48 0.045 vs -0.001 (Book)
BPM -3.1 vs -1.7 (Russ)
O Rating 103 vs 95 (Book)
D Rating 113 vs 112 (Russ)

D'LO takes it 4-3.

I think it's pretty close, but there is no "only Laker fans would think Russell is better" stuff IMO. I'm a Russ fan, but not a blind fan in the sense that I overrate him. I think he has a lot of potential to keep getting better. He and Booker both will be very good, but I sense that Booker will wind up being the better shooter, and Russell the better playmaker/passer.


Your comparison is beyond useless. For example their defense rating is virtually the same, yet the offensive rating is a massive difference in favor of Booker.

Otherwise I reccomend the eye test because it is fairly obvious.

Booker is the #1 option and is getting double teamed for a while now.

Booker is among league leaders in drive efficiency and pick and roll efficiency.

Booker averaged 22.3/3/5 in March alone.

Booker has the most 30+ scoring games of any rookie.
Booker has the most 30+ games as a rookie since Blake Griffin.
Booker is the 2nd youngest 30+ point scorer in NBA history (Lebron)
Booker has the most 30+ games as a teenage (Lebron, Melo, trailing KD by 1)
Booker is the 2nd youngest player in NBA history with a pts/ast double double (did it twice against golden state, once without turnovers)
Booker is the only NBA teenager with back to back 30+ games other than Lebron.


Hey Suns fan.

Eye test? It tells me also that Booker gets to play (last few months) high 30 minutes per game, has the consistent green light to shoot over 20 times a game, and has no other mouths to feed on that terrible Suns team.

I really like Booker, but let's not forget that he's been free from the Parking Brake (aka Byron Scott).
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2016 8:03 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
slinslin wrote:
wolfpaclaker wrote:
Since some were bringing up, I looked it up on D'LO vs Booker.

Devin Booker vs Russell advanced stats

PER 12.2 vs 13.2 (Russ)
TS% 53.8 vs 50.3 (Book)
AST% 15.7 vs 21.5 (Russ)
USG% 22.8 vs 24.3 (Not really an advantage just to show usage rates)
WS/48 0.045 vs -0.001 (Book)
BPM -3.1 vs -1.7 (Russ)
O Rating 103 vs 95 (Book)
D Rating 113 vs 112 (Russ)

D'LO takes it 4-3.

I think it's pretty close, but there is no "only Laker fans would think Russell is better" stuff IMO. I'm a Russ fan, but not a blind fan in the sense that I overrate him. I think he has a lot of potential to keep getting better. He and Booker both will be very good, but I sense that Booker will wind up being the better shooter, and Russell the better playmaker/passer.


Your comparison is beyond useless. For example their defense rating is virtually the same, yet the offensive rating is a massive difference in favor of Booker.

Otherwise I reccomend the eye test because it is fairly obvious.

Booker is the #1 option and is getting double teamed for a while now.

Booker is among league leaders in drive efficiency and pick and roll efficiency.

Booker averaged 22.3/3/5 in March alone.

Booker has the most 30+ scoring games of any rookie.
Booker has the most 30+ games as a rookie since Blake Griffin.
Booker is the 2nd youngest 30+ point scorer in NBA history (Lebron)
Booker has the most 30+ games as a teenage (Lebron, Melo, trailing KD by 1)
Booker is the 2nd youngest player in NBA history with a pts/ast double double (did it twice against golden state, once without turnovers)
Booker is the only NBA teenager with back to back 30+ games other than Lebron.


Hey Suns fan.

Eye test? It tells me also that Booker gets to play (last few months) high 30 minutes per game, has the consistent green light to shoot over 20 times a game, and has no other mouths to feed on that terrible Suns team.

I really like Booker, but let's not forget that he's been free from the Parking Brake (aka Byron Scott).


Has nothing to do with fandom.

Russell has a higher usage rate and takes more shots per minute than Booker as well as still playing more mpg overall.

So much for that parking break. And Russell does not get double teamed.

Also Booker is averaging more assists than Russell for a while now, so he is feeding more mouths I would guess on a terrible Suns team that is still better than an even worse Lakers team.
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2016 8:15 am    Post subject:

Booker didn't even get to play as much until a few months ago.

Go back to the Suns.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2016 8:18 am    Post subject:

Haven't had a Suns troll here in quite some time. Things are cooking in Phoenix!
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2016 8:18 am    Post subject:

I just checked out Bookers 30 pt games, they were all in blow out losses with him playing about 40 mins... ugh. Has he gotten a chance to be the man in any close games? Or is it still Knight chucking away if you want to go by 'eye test.'

Dudes a skilled shooter and has lots of room to grow. Trying to parade around here trying to prove something to yourself is ridiculous.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2016 8:19 am    Post subject:

ocho wrote:
Haven't had a Suns troll here in quite some time. Things are cooking in Phoenix!


They went into the season with Knight/Bledsoe/Chandler, and had hopes of making the playoffs.

Now they're 4th worst in the league. A good time to talk (bleep).
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-JC out for $0/Deng stretched = 57.6m in 2018 cap space
-Same as above and Jules renounced/traded for $0 = 69.9m in 2018 cap space

2 of 4 of these players will be Lakers in 2018 (LBJ/PG13/WB/Boogie)
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2016 8:27 am    Post subject:

Man...

6 out 76 games D'Angelo's has had more then 36 mins.

Booker since getting the green light has had more then 20 games of 36 or more.

If we adjust for Per 36, they're almost identical with DLo a tick better like Wolf posted earlier.

These definitive claims are funny stuff, Byron Scott kinda funny.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2016 9:34 am    Post subject:

slinslin wrote:
wolfpaclaker wrote:
Pretty simple for me for the rookie team.

C Okafor
F Towns
F Porzingis
G Booker
G Russell

Actually love that team. 5 future all-stars there, IMO. Booker looks like Klay 2.0. Russell will be a stud in 2 years. Okafor's got some issues but in the right situation, I think at worst he'll be a Z-BO level all-star. Towns is unbelievably consistent and good, going to be a great player to build around. Hardest guy to call is KP, can't say how good he can be, but I think at least a Kirilenko/Marion hybrid type.


The only thing Booker and Klay have in common is that they are light-skinned and have a beautiful jumper.

Booker plays a lot more like Brandon Roy/James Harden. He is among league leaders at getting to the rim and he is a great passer for a shooting guard.


Plus Booker is nowhere near the defender that Thompson is. Booker is very Harden-esque in that regard.
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wolfpaclaker
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2016 9:55 am    Post subject:

I am always respectful to non-Laker fans coming to the board, especailly to this part of the forum. I welcome the opinion. So I'll respond, and I'm not doing so to feed a troll or to show my Laker bias.

Quote:
Your comparison is beyond useless. For example their defense rating is virtually the same, yet the offensive rating is a massive difference in favor of Booker.

I think in part why you're saying this is the advanced stats paint a picture where Russ and Book are virtually identical overall. Russ has the edges in some areas, Book in others. Like I said, I'm no blind Russ fan. I've been accused of not even "fan"ing Russ enough. It's obvious to me though that Russell and Booker are very close in level.

Quote:
Otherwise I reccomend the eye test because it is fairly obvious.

And I've seen both play, as well as studied the stats, both advanced and regular. I've seen about 4 Suns games, and almost all the Laker games (though not all minutes because Lakers are somewhat unwatchable). I won't say my opinion on Booker is very accurate, but I do think they're very comparable in level.
Quote:

Booker is the #1 option and is getting double teamed for a while now.

Russell was also our #1 option during a stretch when he was on.

Quote:
Booker is among league leaders in drive efficiency and pick and roll efficiency.

Agreed, he is much better than Russell at this because Russell doesn't have the same jumper or ability to get to the basket. Where Russell is better or will become better is if he has a big that can set screens and roll really well, it'll utilize an area of his that is not used properly right now - his passing skill. Look at the stats, Russell's assist rate is higher. This with horrendous play finishers around him.

Quote:
Booker averaged 22.3/3/5 in March alone.

And that's why I called him an all-star in the making. Russell has had great stretches as well.

Quote:
Booker has the most 30+ scoring games of any rookie.
Booker has the most 30+ games as a rookie since Blake Griffin.
Booker is the 2nd youngest 30+ point scorer in NBA history (Lebron)
Booker has the most 30+ games as a teenage (Lebron, Melo, trailing KD by 1)
Booker is the 2nd youngest player in NBA history with a pts/ast double double (did it twice against golden state, once without turnovers)
Booker is the only NBA teenager with back to back 30+ games other than Lebron.

All very good, and I agree he should be acknowledged. There are many accolades Russell has accomplished that I could list. I won't bother - but I'll say I think you have every reason to be excited about Booker's potential but Lakers fans should be equally excited about where Russ can be in 2 years.
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KeepItRealOrElse
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2016 8:32 pm    Post subject:

Safe to say WCS is officially showing flashes offensively and not just lucky accidents. Lol

https://vine.co/v/iIxAqAXqHpU competent drive within the O, and lefty finish

https://vine.co/v/iIxHviF0j5e 15 foot J
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2016 7:47 am    Post subject:

In 2014 there were 4 guards on the All Rookie 1st Team.

This year I think there will be 4 bigs.

Towns
Porzingis
Jokic
Turner
Booker
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2016 7:52 am    Post subject:

kikanga wrote:
In 2014 there were 4 guards on the All Rookie 1st Team.

This year I think there will be 4 bigs.

Towns
Porzingis
Jokic
Turner
Booker


I don't know if Jokic/Turner will get over DLO/Oak.
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2 of 4 of these players will be Lakers in 2018 (LBJ/PG13/WB/Boogie)
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2016 8:09 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
Cutheon wrote:
I think Booker will get 1st team over DLO.


So DLO to 2nd team?


Sorry for responding late. Yes, DLO to 2nd team. Booker has played better as of late, and DLO has not only struggled as of late, but has the "scandal" - as lame as it was - still around him.

Both players probably deserve 1st team, but there are a lot of solid bigs deserving of that spot. Ultimately, I think the "what-has-he-done-lately" narrative will push Booker over the top. IF DLO's 39point outburst -- and the great stretch that followed -- happened more recently, I think he would get it. As it stands, Booker has the momentum.

If DLO does get to the 1st team, it's not over Booker -- probably over Okafor or another borderline player
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2016 8:11 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
kikanga wrote:
In 2014 there were 4 guards on the All Rookie 1st Team.

This year I think there will be 4 bigs.

Towns
Porzingis
Jokic
Turner
Booker


I don't know if Jokic/Turner will get over DLO/Oak.


National media LOVES Jokic! Apparently his analytic numbers rival Towns.
I'm not a fan personally because of his turnstile defense. But he's been top 2-3 on the NBA Rookie ladder most of the year.

I'm rooting for DLO. But won't be surprised if Oak get his 1st team spot due to the raw stats.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2016 8:27 am    Post subject:

kikanga wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
kikanga wrote:
In 2014 there were 4 guards on the All Rookie 1st Team.

This year I think there will be 4 bigs.

Towns
Porzingis
Jokic
Turner
Booker


I don't know if Jokic/Turner will get over DLO/Oak.


National media LOVES Jokic! Apparently his analytic numbers rival Towns.
I'm not a fan personally because of his turnstile defense. But he's been top 2-3 on the NBA Rookie ladder most of the year.

I'm rooting for DLO. But won't be surprised if Oak get his 1st team spot due to the raw stats.


Sure, but if you're using "raw numbers," Jokic is putting up 9/7. Not sure many media members care about analytics to be frank.
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-JC out for $0/Deng stretched = 57.6m in 2018 cap space
-Same as above and Jules renounced/traded for $0 = 69.9m in 2018 cap space

2 of 4 of these players will be Lakers in 2018 (LBJ/PG13/WB/Boogie)
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2016 8:54 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
kikanga wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
kikanga wrote:
In 2014 there were 4 guards on the All Rookie 1st Team.

This year I think there will be 4 bigs.

Towns
Porzingis
Jokic
Turner
Booker


I don't know if Jokic/Turner will get over DLO/Oak.


National media LOVES Jokic! Apparently his analytic numbers rival Towns.
I'm not a fan personally because of his turnstile defense. But he's been top 2-3 on the NBA Rookie ladder most of the year.

I'm rooting for DLO. But won't be surprised if Oak get his 1st team spot due to the raw stats.


Sure, but if you're using "raw numbers," Jokic is putting up 9/7. Not sure many media members care about analytics to be frank.


I hope you're right!
Do you know when they normally announce the all rookie teams? Immediately after the season?
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2016 4:33 pm    Post subject:

The coaches vote. Or did they change that 2014-2015?
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2016 5:14 pm    Post subject:

KeepItRealOrElse wrote:
Safe to say WCS is officially showing flashes offensively and not just lucky accidents. Lol

https://vine.co/v/iIxAqAXqHpU competent drive within the O, and lefty finish

https://vine.co/v/iIxHviF0j5e 15 foot J


Stop it. Jacob Rude and I were insanely high on his upside last year.'

I can't deal with it, especially when I think of how WCS and RAndle would have been in the frontcourt without a logjam at guard, Clarkson at PG.

It's also exactly why I don't buy into the fact that he was a senior out of Kentucky, that all of a sudden, he has a low upside.

Physical tools
Athletic ability
Different ways to contribute
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2016 6:05 pm    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
KeepItRealOrElse wrote:
Safe to say WCS is officially showing flashes offensively and not just lucky accidents. Lol

https://vine.co/v/iIxAqAXqHpU competent drive within the O, and lefty finish

https://vine.co/v/iIxHviF0j5e 15 foot J


Stop it. Jacob Rude and I were insanely high on his upside last year.'

I can't deal with it, especially when I think of how WCS and RAndle would have been in the frontcourt without a logjam at guard, Clarkson at PG.

It's also exactly why I don't buy into the fact that he was a senior out of Kentucky, that all of a sudden, he has a low upside.

Physical tools
Athletic ability
Different ways to contribute


He still hasn't shown enough flashes of improvement this year. 5-10 jumpers/drives isn't enough.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2016 6:25 pm    Post subject:

KeepItRealOrElse wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
KeepItRealOrElse wrote:
Safe to say WCS is officially showing flashes offensively and not just lucky accidents. Lol

https://vine.co/v/iIxAqAXqHpU competent drive within the O, and lefty finish

https://vine.co/v/iIxHviF0j5e 15 foot J


Stop it. Jacob Rude and I were insanely high on his upside last year.'

I can't deal with it, especially when I think of how WCS and RAndle would have been in the frontcourt without a logjam at guard, Clarkson at PG.

It's also exactly why I don't buy into the fact that he was a senior out of Kentucky, that all of a sudden, he has a low upside.

Physical tools
Athletic ability
Different ways to contribute


He still hasn't shown enough flashes of improvement this year. 5-10 jumpers/drives isn't enough.


It is for me. He has had a confidence issue, and now he's showing his skill set.

If it's legit next season, does it even matter?
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2016 9:21 pm    Post subject:

Bobby Portis has surprised me this season more than Miles has.
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