Joined: 07 Jun 2002 Posts: 9674 Location: San Diego
Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2015 11:11 am Post subject:
jonnybravo wrote:
SuperboyReformed wrote:
man...i'm going to get hammered for this...
Curry is not the best shooter I've ever seen. I mean, it really depends on how you define shooter. We recently had the shooter vs scorer debate. I don't like the distinction, really. shooter, scorer whatever.
Before i get into it, i first want to say that I do think Curry is an incredible shooter and worthy of such a discussion. He's a different kind of shooter than his predecessors, and he is flourishing in a system designed to get him a lot of open looks. PLus, his herky-jerk moves are very good as well (NOT on Iverson level, for those thinking that). And he doesn't rely of gimmicks or officiating as much as some superstars today like Harden, Dwight, Lebron.
But...he is not the best shooter I've ever seen. He's not better than Kobe, Jordan. (I'll have to go back a rewatch some of the more recent games). How about Reggie Miller, Ray Allen? Ok, that's more of a discussion to me. And when we talk about Curry and shooting, we mostly mean threes. So as a 3-point shooter, yes, he MAY be the best I've ever seen, but it's not clear at the moment. That's basically a Curry vs. Allen vs. Miller discussion (which should include a handful of other names possibly, but those are currently considered the best). Now, someone like Kobe is not considered a great 3-point shooter, but he really is there. MJ is not because he avoided shooting the shot, but in his defense, it was frowned upon to shoot it then, and now it is encouraged to shoot it even on fast breaks. This is a drastically different attitude towards the three.
Now, for non 3point shots, Curry is for sure NOT the best ever at that. mid-range? That's going to go to one of the all time greatest evers like Jordan, or Kobe...people like that. Curry has a very fast shot. and he's kind of short vs other shooting guards. This means he is physically at a disadvantage for basketball when it comes to shooting. The ideal height is somewhere between 6'6" and 6'11". Curry makes up for it with his unique quick release. the downside is he doesn't get much lift. Ok, so what? well, it's fine if you're open. even kobe will shoot a low-hopper three if he's open. Well, it's a big deal because it means you have to be open to get the shot off. A true jump shooter can rise up over the defender, usually at around mid range, and just shoot it. We don't really see Curry do this. He has to either do a step back or a series of herky moves, or a series of screens from his teammates to get open. So this means we haven't really seen him rise up and shoot over guys a lot. So I can't say he's the best shooter ever because of this point. That is a very big deal. He's definitely up there for three point shooting. But not for shooting all around.
Also..."pure" shooter? what is that? silly term. there's no such thing as pure or non-pure.
and just for the record, with so much overhyping of everything these days, aren't we at least a little hesitant that what we see right now is the "best ever"? It's just hype. There are very few things I'm seeing in the NBA regarding individual players that I consider the "best ever" at this point. The game has changed so much. We have for sure moved away from the great superstar individual player...to a more team -oriented approach mostly due to the recent zone rules. Back before zone rules, it was easier for the individual to display his supreme skill sets. So just given that alone Curry, even if he is the best, wouldn't be able to show it because of the style today. What he's shown is not the best in history. The only "best evers" that I've seen in the past 5-10 years is some stuff Kobe has done, definitely the various three point shooting achievements. Not much else. not defense, not dunking, not blocking, not scoring, posting, etc. all these individual skills were demonstrated much more skillfully in the past with the past rules than now.
Jibba, jabbah...
Yes, you should get hammered for this.
Agreed, one of the more stupid conclusions I have ever heard around here. That's saying something!
You can argue that Kobe is a great scorer and a great clutch shooter, but just being a great shooter, the argument becomes more difficult. He certainly is NOT of the 10 best pure shooters to ever play this game and Curry may be. _________________ Never argue with stupid people! They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience!! - Twain
Joined: 19 Apr 2003 Posts: 22859 Location: La Jolla, San Diego
Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2015 12:23 pm Post subject:
SuperboyReformed wrote:
man...i'm going to get hammered for this...
Curry is not the best shooter I've ever seen. I mean, it really depends on how you define shooter. We recently had the shooter vs scorer debate. I don't like the distinction, really. shooter, scorer whatever.
Before i get into it, i first want to say that I do think Curry is an incredible shooter and worthy of such a discussion. He's a different kind of shooter than his predecessors, and he is flourishing in a system designed to get him a lot of open looks. PLus, his herky-jerk moves are very good as well (NOT on Iverson level, for those thinking that). And he doesn't rely of gimmicks or officiating as much as some superstars today like Harden, Dwight, Lebron.
But...he is not the best shooter I've ever seen. He's not better than Kobe, Jordan. (I'll have to go back a rewatch some of the more recent games). How about Reggie Miller, Ray Allen? Ok, that's more of a discussion to me. And when we talk about Curry and shooting, we mostly mean threes. So as a 3-point shooter, yes, he MAY be the best I've ever seen, but it's not clear at the moment. That's basically a Curry vs. Allen vs. Miller discussion (which should include a handful of other names possibly, but those are currently considered the best). Now, someone like Kobe is not considered a great 3-point shooter, but he really is there. MJ is not because he avoided shooting the shot, but in his defense, it was frowned upon to shoot it then, and now it is encouraged to shoot it even on fast breaks. This is a drastically different attitude towards the three.
Now, for non 3point shots, Curry is for sure NOT the best ever at that. mid-range? That's going to go to one of the all time greatest evers like Jordan, or Kobe...people like that. Curry has a very fast shot. and he's kind of short vs other shooting guards. This means he is physically at a disadvantage for basketball when it comes to shooting. The ideal height is somewhere between 6'6" and 6'11". Curry makes up for it with his unique quick release. the downside is he doesn't get much lift. Ok, so what? well, it's fine if you're open. even kobe will shoot a low-hopper three if he's open. Well, it's a big deal because it means you have to be open to get the shot off. A true jump shooter can rise up over the defender, usually at around mid range, and just shoot it. We don't really see Curry do this. He has to either do a step back or a series of herky moves, or a series of screens from his teammates to get open. So this means we haven't really seen him rise up and shoot over guys a lot. So I can't say he's the best shooter ever because of this point. That is a very big deal. He's definitely up there for three point shooting. But not for shooting all around.
Also..."pure" shooter? what is that? silly term. there's no such thing as pure or non-pure.
and just for the record, with so much overhyping of everything these days, aren't we at least a little hesitant that what we see right now is the "best ever"? It's just hype. There are very few things I'm seeing in the NBA regarding individual players that I consider the "best ever" at this point. The game has changed so much. We have for sure moved away from the great superstar individual player...to a more team -oriented approach mostly due to the recent zone rules. Back before zone rules, it was easier for the individual to display his supreme skill sets. So just given that alone Curry, even if he is the best, wouldn't be able to show it because of the style today. What he's shown is not the best in history. The only "best evers" that I've seen in the past 5-10 years is some stuff Kobe has done, definitely the various three point shooting achievements. Not much else. not defense, not dunking, not blocking, not scoring, posting, etc. all these individual skills were demonstrated much more skillfully in the past with the past rules than now.
Just look up how many times Reggie and Ray Allen has hit over 200 threes in a season, compare that to how many times Curry has done it and is still only 27.
Sure, you can get into semantics in defining what a shooter is, but nobody in the media has compared Curry to Kobe or MJ. I think that's just your little fan insecurity. The reason they make this distinction, is to ignore efficiency. Scorers are not as efficient as shooters. At least, that's from my understanding.
They for sure, have compared him to Reggie, Ray Allen and point guards.. and he is the best shooter ever, period. Kobe and MJ are not known as shooters, they are known as scorers, but like I said, you're getting into semantics by tossing them into the conversation. I mean heck, with semantics, you can put Hakeem in the argument if you want.
He is the best shooter by far. The difference between him and other great shooters, his % doesn't dip much when he's shooting off the dribble. Hand in his face? Doesn't matter. That is why he's unstoppable offensively.
Joined: 02 May 2005 Posts: 90307 Location: Formerly Known As 24
Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2015 4:52 pm Post subject:
Runway8 wrote:
SuperboyReformed wrote:
man...i'm going to get hammered for this...
Curry is not the best shooter I've ever seen. I mean, it really depends on how you define shooter. We recently had the shooter vs scorer debate. I don't like the distinction, really. shooter, scorer whatever.
Before i get into it, i first want to say that I do think Curry is an incredible shooter and worthy of such a discussion. He's a different kind of shooter than his predecessors, and he is flourishing in a system designed to get him a lot of open looks. PLus, his herky-jerk moves are very good as well (NOT on Iverson level, for those thinking that). And he doesn't rely of gimmicks or officiating as much as some superstars today like Harden, Dwight, Lebron.
But...he is not the best shooter I've ever seen. He's not better than Kobe, Jordan. (I'll have to go back a rewatch some of the more recent games). How about Reggie Miller, Ray Allen? Ok, that's more of a discussion to me. And when we talk about Curry and shooting, we mostly mean threes. So as a 3-point shooter, yes, he MAY be the best I've ever seen, but it's not clear at the moment. That's basically a Curry vs. Allen vs. Miller discussion (which should include a handful of other names possibly, but those are currently considered the best). Now, someone like Kobe is not considered a great 3-point shooter, but he really is there. MJ is not because he avoided shooting the shot, but in his defense, it was frowned upon to shoot it then, and now it is encouraged to shoot it even on fast breaks. This is a drastically different attitude towards the three.
Now, for non 3point shots, Curry is for sure NOT the best ever at that. mid-range? That's going to go to one of the all time greatest evers like Jordan, or Kobe...people like that. Curry has a very fast shot. and he's kind of short vs other shooting guards. This means he is physically at a disadvantage for basketball when it comes to shooting. The ideal height is somewhere between 6'6" and 6'11". Curry makes up for it with his unique quick release. the downside is he doesn't get much lift. Ok, so what? well, it's fine if you're open. even kobe will shoot a low-hopper three if he's open. Well, it's a big deal because it means you have to be open to get the shot off. A true jump shooter can rise up over the defender, usually at around mid range, and just shoot it. We don't really see Curry do this. He has to either do a step back or a series of herky moves, or a series of screens from his teammates to get open. So this means we haven't really seen him rise up and shoot over guys a lot. So I can't say he's the best shooter ever because of this point. That is a very big deal. He's definitely up there for three point shooting. But not for shooting all around.
Also..."pure" shooter? what is that? silly term. there's no such thing as pure or non-pure.
and just for the record, with so much overhyping of everything these days, aren't we at least a little hesitant that what we see right now is the "best ever"? It's just hype. There are very few things I'm seeing in the NBA regarding individual players that I consider the "best ever" at this point. The game has changed so much. We have for sure moved away from the great superstar individual player...to a more team -oriented approach mostly due to the recent zone rules. Back before zone rules, it was easier for the individual to display his supreme skill sets. So just given that alone Curry, even if he is the best, wouldn't be able to show it because of the style today. What he's shown is not the best in history. The only "best evers" that I've seen in the past 5-10 years is some stuff Kobe has done, definitely the various three point shooting achievements. Not much else. not defense, not dunking, not blocking, not scoring, posting, etc. all these individual skills were demonstrated much more skillfully in the past with the past rules than now.
Just look up how many times Reggie and Ray Allen has hit over 200 threes in a season, compare that to how many times Curry has done it and is still only 27.
Sure, you can get into semantics in defining what a shooter is, but nobody in the media has compared Curry to Kobe or MJ. I think that's just your little fan insecurity. The reason they make this distinction, is to ignore efficiency. Scorers are not as efficient as shooters. At least, that's from my understanding.
They for sure, have compared him to Reggie, Ray Allen and point guards.. and he is the best shooter ever, period. Kobe and MJ are not known as shooters, they are known as scorers, but like I said, you're getting into semantics by tossing them into the conversation. I mean heck, with semantics, you can put Hakeem in the argument if you want.
I don't know how you can say a guy getting up a huge volume of shots and making them at ungodly percentages from all over the court, spotting up, pulling up, sliding left or right, is not the best shooter you've seen.
This guy is astonishing in a way that's different than anyone else I've ever seen. I don't quite know how to articulate it. He's so casual it's almost insulting. I'd probably crack him in the ribs if I was guarding him. He's plays like a protagonist from a bad basketball movie that gets superpowers and suddenly makes every (bleep) shot he throws up there. I mean, look at some of these.
Anthony Davis gets all kind of hype but he's just a small fish in Curry's pond. _________________ "There's only 2 dudes better than me, and I'm BOTH OF THEM."
This guy is astonishing in a way that's different than anyone else I've ever seen. I don't quite know how to articulate it. He's so casual it's almost insulting. I'd probably crack him in the ribs if I was guarding him. He's plays like a protagonist from a bad basketball movie that gets superpowers and suddenly makes every (bleep) shot he throws up there. I mean, look at some of these.
I really admire Curry on the basketball court and as a person. Unbelievable game. He really is a new archetype of player
He's my 16th favorite basketball player (after all 15 Lakers )
This guy is astonishing in a way that's different than anyone else I've ever seen. I don't quite know how to articulate it. He's so casual it's almost insulting. I'd probably crack him in the ribs if I was guarding him. He's plays like a protagonist from a bad basketball movie that gets superpowers and suddenly makes every (bleep) shot he throws up there. I mean, look at some of these.
I really admire Curry on the basketball court and as a person. Unbelievable game. He really is a new archetype of player
He's my 16th favorite basketball player (after all 15 Lakers )
I don't know about new archetype, Curry is one of a kind.
This guy is astonishing in a way that's different than anyone else I've ever seen. I don't quite know how to articulate it. He's so casual it's almost insulting. I'd probably crack him in the ribs if I was guarding him. He's plays like a protagonist from a bad basketball movie that gets superpowers and suddenly makes every (bleep) shot he throws up there. I mean, look at some of these.
This guy is astonishing in a way that's different than anyone else I've ever seen. I don't quite know how to articulate it. He's so casual it's almost insulting. I'd probably crack him in the ribs if I was guarding him. He's plays like a protagonist from a bad basketball movie that gets superpowers and suddenly makes every (bleep) shot he throws up there. I mean, look at some of these.
I really admire Curry on the basketball court and as a person. Unbelievable game. He really is a new archetype of player
He's my 16th favorite basketball player (after all 15 Lakers )
I don't know about new archetype, Curry is one of a kind.
If people could develop their shot to his level, they'd all be doing it. It's a pretty valuable skill... _________________ I believe everything the media tells me except for anything for which I have direct personal knowledge, which they always get wrong
This guy is astonishing in a way that's different than anyone else I've ever seen. I don't quite know how to articulate it. He's so casual it's almost insulting. I'd probably crack him in the ribs if I was guarding him. He's plays like a protagonist from a bad basketball movie that gets superpowers and suddenly makes every (bleep) shot he throws up there. I mean, look at some of these.
Impossible to guard. There was a play in there where Curry head faked/hesitated on his dribble thirty feet from the basket and Conley bit on it, letting Curry sweep past him to put in the easy floater. And how can you blame Conley? You almost have to bite on it, even from 8 feet behind the arc, because Curry is liable to pull up and swish the three from there if you don't.
He struggles with the double though. He get's so many looks in transition and off offensive rebounds and loose ball situations. This all a testament to his team. Half court sets, again, picks and double picks to shake his man.
You guys remember how teams used to double Kobe at half court. Steph doesn't face that, yet... but it's tough for team defenses to ignore the other threats the dubs have on the court. Their team make-up right now is producing the by-product we're witnessing on the court today.
Last year when Memphis was able to slow the tempo and force GSW to play more half court it was tough for them to get going. They had the personnel and did a good job on clamping Klay and Steph for awhile. Things didn't fall apart until Memphis couldn't buy a bucket and started turning the ball over. For the most part Cleveland in the finals did the same type of job... again they just didn't have enough firepower to sustain 4 quarters.
This guy is astonishing in a way that's different than anyone else I've ever seen. I don't quite know how to articulate it. He's so casual it's almost insulting. I'd probably crack him in the ribs if I was guarding him. He's plays like a protagonist from a bad basketball movie that gets superpowers and suddenly makes every (bleep) shot he throws up there. I mean, look at some of these.
I really admire Curry on the basketball court and as a person. Unbelievable game. He really is a new archetype of player
He's my 16th favorite basketball player (after all 15 Lakers )
I don't know about new archetype, Curry is one of a kind.
That's what they said about MJ and then Kobe came along.
Somewhere there's a youngster dribbling a ball practicing pull up 3's from 30' with a lightning quick release.
Not saying it's going to be easy, but a few years down the line we'll be seeing more guards in the Curry mold. To me his game doesn't really fit any comparisons with any previous guards. Which is why I think he is a new archetype of player
Some of the shots Curry has been making are unbelievable. So far this season he's been brilliant, I know it's still early days and the season has only just began. He was the MVP last season. Against Grizzlies the other night Curry was just toying with them at times.
He's up there. When all is said and done, barring major injury, he may end up as top 10 all-time.
To me he looks like he's gotten even better than the was last year. (yes. Small sample size so far)
Top 10 all-time?? Depending on who you ask, 1 or 2 of the following players are on the outside looking in of the top 10:
Kobe
Duncan
Shaq
Dream
Big O
LeBron
Curry ain't that good....
Too early to say if he's that good. He really emerged as a superstar only last year and in the first few games of this year he's been amazing. If he has a great run over the next 4-5 years, he could pick up a few rings, and MVPs, and set some NBA records.
That's a lot of ifs. But if last season and the beginning of this season is a portent of things to come, I have no trouble imagining him bolting ahead of Oscar and Hakeem. In fact, I think Oscar has already dropped out of the all-time top 10 for most people.
This guy is astonishing in a way that's different than anyone else I've ever seen. I don't quite know how to articulate it. He's so casual it's almost insulting. I'd probably crack him in the ribs if I was guarding him. He's plays like a protagonist from a bad basketball movie that gets superpowers and suddenly makes every (bleep) shot he throws up there. I mean, look at some of these.
I really admire Curry on the basketball court and as a person. Unbelievable game. He really is a new archetype of player
He's my 16th favorite basketball player (after all 15 Lakers )
Every great player is an evolution of other great players. I'd say Stephen Curry is like a Steve Nash with a bigger focus on scoring and more offensive versatility so his presence spaces the floor better.
I am watching the game vs the Clippers right now and he is unreal. Just amazing, the best shooter in the history of basketball off the dribble and arguably the best shooter of all time. _________________ Love, Laker Lanny
I am watching the game vs the Clippers right now and he is unreal. Just amazing, the best shooter in the history of basketball off the dribble and arguably the best shooter of all time.
It feels like it's almost not fair to the other team. How do you beat a team when a guy is on fire like that?
Joined: 05 Jul 2001 Posts: 4356 Location: Oxnard, CA - The Nard
Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2015 4:03 pm Post subject:
Steve007 wrote:
LakerLanny wrote:
I am watching the game vs the Clippers right now and he is unreal. Just amazing, the best shooter in the history of basketball off the dribble and arguably the best shooter of all time.
It feels like it's almost not fair to the other team. How do you beat a team when a guy is on fire like that?
He always seems to be on fire when the game is on the line. Steph is amazing, Warriors are a fun team to watch.
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