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ringfinger Retired Number
Joined: 08 Oct 2013 Posts: 29418
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Posted: Thu Nov 26, 2015 9:25 am Post subject: |
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Cutheon wrote: | ringfinger wrote: | Black Friday is a perfect example of how marketers ruin everything. |
Can you elaborate? You're a marketer (i think...), so I am interested in why you think that. |
Absolutely. And yes, you're right, I am a marketer by trade.
In short, typically, something new happens and becomes popular organically. And it becomes popular organically because this new thing is all about making one's life easier, or adding incremental value to something that already exists, or just making an experience that much better. Then, marketers figure it out and develop marketing plans to capitalize on those trends and over time, are pressured to do so in ways that maximizes returns. That's when things start to get ruined. It's a gradual degradation.
Let's take email as an example. In the 1990s, when people first started adopting email as a form of communication, open rates (the percentage of emails that are opened relative to the number sent) was probably in the 90-percent range. You couldn't get this kind of performance from other methods like direct mail. Marketers figured that out, people were getting more and more and more email and worse, they figure out how to buy email addresses and SPAM was born. Today, you're a genius if you can consistently get email open rates in the high 20s/low 30s. But make no mistake, me emailing my friends and parents didn't create SPAM. Marketers' greed did.
Daily/group deals, same thing. When Groupon and Living Social first came out, the deals were great and people were all over it. Over time, marketers slowly killed the phenomenon by trying to optimize deals that kept costs as low as possible to maximize returns. What happens is at first, you try something new and it's like wow, look at the response, this is amazing, because the deal is amazing. Then, in next year's marketing plan, we have to propose a plan on how we can squeeze more juice out of this lemon. Maybe we can use daily deal programs to liquidate aged inventory, for instance. Or, let's say something amazing and then caveat/disclaimer the heck out of it so we don't REALLY have to technically do what we led the person to think we would. =)
Same thing happened in social media. In the past, you would see every post from every brand you liked. Marketers caught on and developed programs to curate as many "likes" as possible and then flooded News Feeds with ads masquerading as status updates. This is actually, IMO, the cause of MySpace's demise. The experience eventually gets ruined. What Facebook did, that was smart, was they reduced the number of posts you see from brands you don't engage with. So if I'm not pushing content through social that is valuable for my followers, they won't see it. If I want to force people to see my content, I can pay (via sponsored posts), or, I can try to create content that people want to engage with. If you left it up to marketers, it would be ad after ad after ad.
So, now to Black Friday. It started out organically. People would naturally go shopping on the day after Thanksgiving. Retailers noticed an uptick in sales on that day. They'd be in the red all year and then boom, in a matter of a few days, they'd be in the black. (Hence, Black Friday). So, at first, you'd get some really good stuff at amazing prices and people would literally break down doors to get them (i.e. "doorbusters"). So as a marketer, you're now going to be asked, how can we do even better next year? How can we make a little more money? Oh, I know, let's include more high margin products next year. Still successful. Now how are you going to make it better Mr. Marketer? Let's start including aged inventory. You know, the stuff that if we don't sell it, it's going to hit the books as a loss. And you know what else we could do? Let's leak our deals early so people know to come to us instead of the others. Oh, and everyone is doing Black Friday now. Maybe we can start our sale 1-day early and beat the competition so we'll start on Thursday! Next year, how about we start a WEEK early and call it Black Friday WEEK!
All it takes is one company to do that, and the other companies have to follow suit to stay competitive.
So that's what you're seeing a lot of today. Last year, my team had a record "Black Friday" promotion but sales on Black Friday were down 35% year on year. Sales on Thanksgiving were way up, sales on the following Saturday and Sunday were up significantly. We had to extend our promo through the weekend because that's what everyone else was doing. On top of that, we're seeing more and more aged inventory in the promos.
The Black Friday Best Buy deal on the Toshiba TV I posted above? It's a good deal IMO ($150 for a 49" LED 1080p TV) but that's a clearance item at this point. Toshiba doesn't even make TVs anymore. So over time, the deals are going to get worse and worse and eventually, there won't be a Black Friday anymore. It'll be Black Week or something like that and marketers, as we do, would have ruined Black Friday.
Sorry, long response, but I love talking about marketing =)
Last edited by ringfinger on Thu Nov 26, 2015 9:31 am; edited 1 time in total |
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lakersken80 Retired Number
Joined: 12 Aug 2009 Posts: 38751
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Posted: Thu Nov 26, 2015 9:31 am Post subject: |
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ringfinger wrote: | Cutheon wrote: | ringfinger wrote: | Black Friday is a perfect example of how marketers ruin everything. |
Can you elaborate? You're a marketer (i think...), so I am interested in why you think that. |
Absolutely. And yes, you're right, I am a marketer by trade.
In short, typically, something new happens and becomes popular organically. And it becomes popular organically because this new thing is all about making one's life easier, or adding incremental value to something that already exists, or just making an experience that much better. Then, marketers figure it out and develop marketing plans to capitalize on those trends and over time, are pressured to do so in ways that maximizes returns. That's when things start to get ruined. It's a gradual degradation.
Let's take email as an example. In the 1990s, when people first started adopting email as a form of communication, open rates (the percentage of emails that are opened relative to the number sent) was probably in the 90-percent range. You couldn't get this kind of performance from other methods like direct mail. Marketers figured that out, people were getting more and more and more email and worse, they figure out how to buy email addresses and SPAM was born. Today, you're a genius if you can consistently get email open rates in the high 20s/low 30s. But make no mistake, me emailing my friends and parents didn't create SPAM. Marketers' greed did.
Daily/group deals, same thing. When Groupon and Living Social first came out, the deals were great and people were all over it. Over time, marketers slowly killed the phenomenon by trying to optimize deals that kept costs as low as possible to maximize returns. What happens is at first, you try something new and it's like wow, look at the response, this is amazing, because the deal is amazing. Then, in next year's marketing plan, we have to propose a plan on how we can squeeze more juice out of this lemon. Maybe we can use daily deal programs to liquidate aged inventory, for instance. Or, let's say something amazing and then caveat/disclaimer the heck out of it so we don't REALLY have to technically do what we led the person to think we would. =)
Same thing happened in social media. In the past, you would see every post from every brand you liked. Marketers caught on and developed programs to curate as many "likes" as possible and then flooded News Feeds with ads masquerading as status updates. This is actually, IMO, the cause of MySpace's demise. The experience eventually gets ruined. What Facebook did, that was smart, was they reduced the number of posts you see from brands you don't engage with. So if I'm not pushing content through social that is valuable for my followers, they won't see it. If I want to force people to see my content, I can pay (via sponsored posts), or, I can try to create content that people want to engage with. If you left it up to marketers, it would be ad after ad after ad.
So, now to Black Friday. It started out organically. People would naturally go shopping on the day after Thanksgiving. Retailers noticed an uptick in sales on that day. They'd be in the red all year and then boom, in a matter of a few days, they'd be in the black. (Hence, Black Friday). So, at first, you'd get some really good stuff at amazing prices and people would literally break down doors to get them (i.e. "doorbusters"). So as a marketer, you're now going to be asked, how can we do even better next year? How can we make a little more money? Oh, I know, let's include more high margin products next year. Still successful. Now how are you going to make it better Mr. Marketer? Let's start including aged inventory. You know, the stuff that if we don't sell it, it's going to hit the books as a loss. And you know what else we could do? Let's leak our deals early so people know to come to us instead of the others. Oh, and everyone is doing Black Friday now. Maybe we can start our sale 1-day early and beat the competition so we'll start on Thursday! Next year, how about we start a WEEK early and call it Black Friday WEEK!
All it takes is one company to do that, and the other companies have to follow suit to stay competitive.
So that's what you're seeing a lot of today. Last year, my team had a record "Black Friday" promotion but sales on Black Friday were down 35% year on year. Sales on Thanksgiving were way up, sales on the following Saturday and Sunday were up significantly. We had to extend our promo through the weekend because that's what everyone else was doing. On top of that, we're seeing more and more aged inventory in the promos.
The Black Friday Best Buy deal on the Toshiba TV I posted above? It's a good deal IMO ($150 for a 49" LED 1080p TV) but that's a clearance item at this point. Toshiba doesn't even make TVs anymore.
Sorry, long response, but I love talking about marketing =) |
Yep, turns out that Toshiba TV is just a rebranded generic Taiwanese brand... |
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Cutheon Franchise Player
Joined: 10 Jul 2009 Posts: 12111 Location: Bay Area
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Posted: Thu Nov 26, 2015 9:51 am Post subject: |
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ringfinger wrote: | Cutheon wrote: | ringfinger wrote: | Black Friday is a perfect example of how marketers ruin everything. |
Can you elaborate? You're a marketer (i think...), so I am interested in why you think that. |
[snipped for length]
Sorry, long response, but I love talking about marketing =) |
Don't be sorry - that was a great, informative response. Appreciate the insight.
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dmorans1 Franchise Player
Joined: 11 Sep 2012 Posts: 11669
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Posted: Thu Nov 26, 2015 10:53 am Post subject: |
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Xbox guy here, just went nuts spending $$$$$.
MS Store has the best deals I have seen for Xbox games. $25 or $15 games plus a $10 gift code. Basically you can get great games for $15 or so. I had to jump on these deals. Been all digital this gen but these deals were so damn hard to pass by. Bought 4 games (Witcher, Batman, NBA 2k16, MK X), will get $40 on gift codes and with that I will buy another game, maybe AC Syndicate.
Also bought a $100 code from G2A for $80 or so. With this I bought Forza 6 from the Xbox store, will get $6 back from Xbox rewards. Also will buy Rise of the Tomb Raider, get $6 back plus $35 from completing the mission or whatever they call it. Bought Dark Souls SOTFS too for $20.
Bought a WD 2TB external HD from Amazon at a reasonable price, no big savings here but a solid purchase.
Overall, this year haven't played much, couple of games here and there like Halo and Gears but man studies are killing any free time I have. Looking forward to playing all these games on this holiday season. |
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PLATNUM Star Player
Joined: 17 Dec 2002 Posts: 7111 Location: L.A.
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Posted: Thu Nov 26, 2015 11:01 am Post subject: |
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Bought the PS4 - Uncharted Bundle online last night from Target. With an extra 15% off code, I paid a total of $285! From the comfort of my own home. WOo hoo _________________ "Dread it, run from it... destiny arrives all the same." |
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SGV-Laker fan Star Player
Joined: 23 May 2013 Posts: 8842
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Posted: Thu Nov 26, 2015 11:05 am Post subject: |
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Been looking for a Windows tablet with usb port for a while now, pulled the trigger this morning on a Surface 3 with cover keyboard for $475 from microsoft store |
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SGV-Laker fan Star Player
Joined: 23 May 2013 Posts: 8842
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Posted: Thu Nov 26, 2015 11:08 am Post subject: |
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PLATNUM wrote: | Bought the PS4 - Uncharted Bundle online last night from Target. With an extra 15% off code, I paid a total of $285! From the comfort of my own home. WOo hoo |
Awesome deal, I bought the batman arkham knight bundle from Walmart a month ago for $350. I know there would be better deal during BF, but couldn't wait |
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gng930 Franchise Player
Joined: 13 Apr 2001 Posts: 11475
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Posted: Thu Nov 26, 2015 11:49 am Post subject: |
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Cutheon wrote: | ringfinger wrote: | Cutheon wrote: | ringfinger wrote: | Black Friday is a perfect example of how marketers ruin everything. |
Can you elaborate? You're a marketer (i think...), so I am interested in why you think that. |
[snipped for length]
Sorry, long response, but I love talking about marketing =) |
Don't be sorry - that was a great, informative response. Appreciate the insight.
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Agree, that was a great read. _________________ Luxury Tax/FA Spreadsheet (Save to your Google Drive to edit) |
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gng930 Franchise Player
Joined: 13 Apr 2001 Posts: 11475
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Posted: Thu Nov 26, 2015 11:54 am Post subject: |
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PLATNUM wrote: | Bought the PS4 - Uncharted Bundle online last night from Target. With an extra 15% off code, I paid a total of $285! From the comfort of my own home. WOo hoo |
Yeah I just just got the same from Best Buy. Been considering one for a while to replace my 7 year old Blu-ray player, stream League Pass games, and play all the recent Metal Gear Solid games (which are pretty much the only games I ever play or have time for any more). _________________ Luxury Tax/FA Spreadsheet (Save to your Google Drive to edit) |
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leor_77 Franchise Player
Joined: 23 Mar 2012 Posts: 21920
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Posted: Thu Nov 26, 2015 8:16 pm Post subject: |
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The only thing I want/need right now is a Macbook Pro or Dell XPS, but unfortunately, these are always so valuable that you're really not going to see any significant discounts.
Last edited by leor_77 on Thu Nov 26, 2015 8:17 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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leor_77 Franchise Player
Joined: 23 Mar 2012 Posts: 21920
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Posted: Thu Nov 26, 2015 8:16 pm Post subject: |
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SGV-Laker fan wrote: | Been looking for a Windows tablet with usb port for a while now, pulled the trigger this morning on a Surface 3 with cover keyboard for $475 from microsoft store |
Nice deal - I just can't deal with 13-inch screens on laptops. |
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rwongega Franchise Player
Joined: 20 Jul 2005 Posts: 20510 Location: UCLA -> NY
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Andrew Evenstar Star Player
Joined: 11 May 2008 Posts: 3526
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Posted: Fri Nov 27, 2015 1:27 am Post subject: |
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rwongega wrote: | Need a new SSD and some DDR4 memory, but I guess I'll wait for Cyber Monday. |
There was already a deal for a 960gb ssd for under $200. |
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C M B Franchise Player
Joined: 15 Nov 2006 Posts: 19853 Location: Prarie & Manchester, high above the western sideline
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Posted: Fri Nov 27, 2015 2:11 am Post subject: |
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Band of Brothers bluray for $10 at best buy _________________ http://chickhearn.ytmnd.com/
Sister Golden Hair wrote: | LAMAR ODOM is an anagram for ... DOOM ALARM
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jonnybravo Retired Number
Joined: 21 Sep 2007 Posts: 30620
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Posted: Fri Nov 27, 2015 3:09 am Post subject: |
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Nexus 6 32gb (not the 6p but still crazy price) @ $199 at Amazon. Just grabbed one. |
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jonnybravo Retired Number
Joined: 21 Sep 2007 Posts: 30620
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Posted: Fri Nov 27, 2015 3:12 am Post subject: |
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Andrew Evenstar wrote: | rwongega wrote: | Need a new SSD and some DDR4 memory, but I guess I'll wait for Cyber Monday. |
There was already a deal for a 960gb ssd for under $200. |
Yeah, I was going to jump on the Sandisk Ultra 480gb @ Tiger for something like $88 bucks after the $25 off Visa Checkout. Snooze you lose . Can still get it for $109 at a few places but I HATE the idea of missing out and paying more later.
Primary SSD is backed the F up right now. SC2, Diablo 3, Hots, Fallout 4, Witcher 3 pretty much have me monitoring my storage constantly now. |
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C M B Franchise Player
Joined: 15 Nov 2006 Posts: 19853 Location: Prarie & Manchester, high above the western sideline
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Posted: Fri Nov 27, 2015 3:19 am Post subject: |
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I just missed out on a white SL-1 with 2 lenses (refurb) @ $269...it was going to be my first SLR. Had it in the cart, lost by checkout. _________________ http://chickhearn.ytmnd.com/
Sister Golden Hair wrote: | LAMAR ODOM is an anagram for ... DOOM ALARM
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jonnybravo Retired Number
Joined: 21 Sep 2007 Posts: 30620
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Posted: Fri Nov 27, 2015 5:02 am Post subject: |
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C M B wrote: | I just missed out on a white SL-1 with 2 lenses (refurb) @ $269...it was going to be my first SLR. Had it in the cart, lost by checkout. |
Oh snap dude! There was an SL1 deal a week or 2 back that I missed on. This one beats it. I'm guessing it was with the kit lens and the 75-300mm lens. Could EASILY get rid of the tele for 80 bucks or so. Less than $200 for that kit would be a STEAL!
I've been eyeballing one of these too . |
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C M B Franchise Player
Joined: 15 Nov 2006 Posts: 19853 Location: Prarie & Manchester, high above the western sideline
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Posted: Fri Nov 27, 2015 5:48 am Post subject: |
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jonnybravo wrote: | C M B wrote: | I just missed out on a white SL-1 with 2 lenses (refurb) @ $269...it was going to be my first SLR. Had it in the cart, lost by checkout. |
Oh snap dude! There was an SL1 deal a week or 2 back that I missed on. This one beats it. I'm guessing it was with the kit lens and the 75-300mm lens. Could EASILY get rid of the tele for 80 bucks or so. Less than $200 for that kit would be a STEAL!
I've been eyeballing one of these too . |
http://shop.usa.canon.com/shop/en/catalog/rebel-sl1-ef-s-18-55mm-is-stm-ef-75-300mm-stm-kit-refurbished
I am kicking myself over missing out on this. _________________ http://chickhearn.ytmnd.com/
Sister Golden Hair wrote: | LAMAR ODOM is an anagram for ... DOOM ALARM
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leor_77 Franchise Player
Joined: 23 Mar 2012 Posts: 21920
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Posted: Fri Nov 27, 2015 10:08 am Post subject: |
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rwongega wrote: | Need a new SSD and some DDR4 memory, but I guess I'll wait for Cyber Monday. |
Samsung 850 EVO 500GB for $140 shipped on Amazon. That's quite the deal. |
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DaMuleRules Retired Number
Joined: 10 Dec 2006 Posts: 52624 Location: Making a safety stop at 15 feet.
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Dladi Vidac Star Player
Joined: 09 Dec 2009 Posts: 4330 Location: Meeting the man who met Andy Griffith.
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Posted: Fri Nov 27, 2015 10:54 am Post subject: |
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I'm looking for a high quality 2 person infrared sauna, an good effective metal detector for coin and relic hunting and a high quality not too insanely difficult to use telescope for space gazing. _________________ "The best there is. The best there was. The best there ever will be.", said Bret Hart regarding the Los Angeles Lakers. |
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Dladi Vidac Star Player
Joined: 09 Dec 2009 Posts: 4330 Location: Meeting the man who met Andy Griffith.
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Posted: Fri Nov 27, 2015 11:02 am Post subject: |
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Also looking for a classic stand up arcade unit that has several (50+) games built in, spy hunter, pacman, donkey kong, etc. And a pinball machine that works well. Gilligan's Island, Happy Days or Twighlight Zone would be marvelous. _________________ "The best there is. The best there was. The best there ever will be.", said Bret Hart regarding the Los Angeles Lakers. |
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C M B Franchise Player
Joined: 15 Nov 2006 Posts: 19853 Location: Prarie & Manchester, high above the western sideline
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Posted: Fri Nov 27, 2015 11:04 am Post subject: |
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Glorrrrry, Glory hmm hmm hmmmmmmmhmmmmmmmmmmm
_________________ http://chickhearn.ytmnd.com/
Sister Golden Hair wrote: | LAMAR ODOM is an anagram for ... DOOM ALARM
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Dladi Vidac Star Player
Joined: 09 Dec 2009 Posts: 4330 Location: Meeting the man who met Andy Griffith.
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Posted: Fri Nov 27, 2015 11:04 am Post subject: |
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Also looking for a high yellow radiated tortoise and a conditioned 1+ year S. gigantea sea anemone, bright green. _________________ "The best there is. The best there was. The best there ever will be.", said Bret Hart regarding the Los Angeles Lakers. |
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