Lakers Offense: Pick & Roll where the Roll man NEVER Rolls + Iso Iso Iso
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Iron Mamba
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 7:27 am    Post subject: Lakers Offense: Pick & Roll where the Roll man NEVER Rolls + Iso Iso Iso

Although Byron Scott has said we play a lot of pick and roll, it really is not. It's more of a screen and roll, isolation plays.

Notice that after a pick, D'Angelo Russell's roll man NEVER rolls to the basket? Not Hibbert (who takes the jumper), not Black (who drives only after getting the pass instead of rolling to the basket to receive the pass), and not even Julius Randle who should be the primary beneficiay of this offense since he's built to RUN. The closest "roller" is Larry Nance Jr, but he's 30/70 at best, and he and Russell aren't playing together on the floor much which is why he usually rolls with Lou Williams. This ends up in Russell taking that elbow jumper 80% of the time, and the other 20% he passes back out to the shooters.

If Russell doesn't initiate the pick at the start of the offense, and the ball somehow goes to any of the other 3 players not named Hibbert or Russell, the play usually ends up being just one isolation play.

Lakers offense tend to be one screen, one pass to a spot-up shooter, then 1-on-1 isolation play from the wing.

It's almost PREDICTABLE now at this point.
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Last edited by Iron Mamba on Tue Nov 17, 2015 7:32 am; edited 3 times in total
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 7:28 am    Post subject:

yep, totally agreed, and the fact it's happening 80% of the time, i think the order is coming from the coaching staff
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 8:10 am    Post subject:

How did Kobe all of a sudden just become a spot-up 3 point shooter?

He barely posts up now. It's 3, 3, iso, iso, 3.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 8:11 am    Post subject:

Nash Vegas wrote:
How did Kobe all of a sudden just become a spot-up 3 point shooter?

He barely posts up now. It's 3, 3, iso, iso, 3.


I think it's called getting older.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 8:12 am    Post subject:

What's funny is when Randle and Hibbert set the double screen up top, Hibbert, the lumbering one, rolls sloowly to the basket, and Randle, the one who can't shoot, spots up a foot inside the 3pt line.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 8:14 am    Post subject:

Nash Vegas wrote:
How did Kobe all of a sudden just become a spot-up 3 point shooter?

He barely posts up now. It's 3, 3, iso, iso, 3.


Can't post up when Hibbert and Randle' defenders are sagging off and packing the paint.
Kobe is forced to space the floor with our starting lineup.
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Nash Vegas
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 8:18 am    Post subject:

Drifts wrote:
Nash Vegas wrote:
How did Kobe all of a sudden just become a spot-up 3 point shooter?

He barely posts up now. It's 3, 3, iso, iso, 3.


I think it's called getting older.


Well the old man did say before pre-season he will be more of a post up player playing the SF position. Nothing about becoming a spot-up 3 point shooter instead.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 8:18 am    Post subject:

fiendishoc wrote:
What's funny is when Randle and Hibbert set the double screen up top, Hibbert, the lumbering one, rolls sloowly to the basket, and Randle, the one who can't shoot, spots up a foot inside the 3pt line.


Yep so true, the offense is so predictable basically passing the ball around perimeter for 15 secs and then let either Clarkson, Kobe or Randle go iso
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lakerjoshua
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 9:02 am    Post subject:

I see a lot of dribbling to the top of the 3pt line and the other 4 players spreading out along the 3pt just standing there waiting for something to happen.....
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 9:45 am    Post subject:

Nash Vegas wrote:
How did Kobe all of a sudden just become a spot-up 3 point shooter?

He barely posts up now. It's 3, 3, iso, iso, 3.


you rarely post in Princeton offense.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 10:20 am    Post subject:

Losing Ed Davis was significant.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 10:29 am    Post subject:

Hibbert does roll a few times but it tends to be when Kobe is initiating the P&R. Which is odd. I just think everybody seriously needs to get used to Russell's passing more; butterfingers galore. Time and patience.

As long as our coaching, you know, allows them to get more used to him.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 10:43 am    Post subject:

The summer league roster Russell played with was way better about this. Even had movement off the ball that Russell was finding.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 3:22 pm    Post subject:

fiendishoc wrote:
What's funny is when Randle and Hibbert set the double screen up top, Hibbert, the lumbering one, rolls sloowly to the basket, and Randle, the one who can't shoot, spots up a foot inside the 3pt line.


I was going to bring this up today! I think it's a spot where Randle can get easier points and get himself going. (Was going to post in the Randle thread but that place is likely a dumpster fire by now lol)

I can't tell if it's the coach's design or if players don't want to roll, but it's getting frustrating to watch.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 3:27 pm    Post subject:

22 wrote:
fiendishoc wrote:
What's funny is when Randle and Hibbert set the double screen up top, Hibbert, the lumbering one, rolls sloowly to the basket, and Randle, the one who can't shoot, spots up a foot inside the 3pt line.


I was going to bring this up today! I think it's a spot where Randle can get easier points and get himself going. (Was going to post in the Randle thread but that place is likely a dumpster fire by now lol)

I can't tell if it's the coach's design or if players don't want to roll, but it's getting frustrating to watch.


I remember when D12 got the blame for not rolling hard to the basket when MDA was the coach.
I think the coach will get most of the blame in this instance though.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 3:33 pm    Post subject:

22 wrote:
fiendishoc wrote:
What's funny is when Randle and Hibbert set the double screen up top, Hibbert, the lumbering one, rolls sloowly to the basket, and Randle, the one who can't shoot, spots up a foot inside the 3pt line.


I was going to bring this up today! I think it's a spot where Randle can get easier points and get himself going. (Was going to post in the Randle thread but that place is likely a dumpster fire by now lol)

I can't tell if it's the coach's design or if players don't want to roll, but it's getting frustrating to watch.


I can almost hear Byron saying the following:

"Don't care if that's not the position you'd prefer to be in. Man up."
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 3:43 pm    Post subject:

The issue is Randle is a bad roll man, obviously our coaching staff doesn't emphasize the bigs rolling but getting the ball to Randle while he's rolling is always difficult because he doesn't have great hands and he struggles finishing over length.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 4:11 pm    Post subject:

This is both a FO and coaching thing.

LA had the opportunity to sign a big guy like Tyson, who loves to set hard screens and roll. He has history playing for Byron and running a lot of S/R with Chris Paul. Yet we went with Hibbert - and weren't really all that interested in Tyson when he was a FA. I get that he's older, but you want to surround your main young talent with guys that can compliment them.

That said, we can definitely still go out and get a guy. But one of the reasons I wasn't high on Hibbert because I knew the need for P/R ball that would come with signing Russ/Clarkson. We do run P/R, we've just got bigs that aren't good at rolling, popping and using their skills towards that.

Nance may be our best hope in this regard.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 4:32 pm    Post subject:

Andre2K wrote:
The issue is Randle is a bad roll man, obviously our coaching staff doesn't emphasize the bigs rolling but getting the ball to Randle while he's rolling is always difficult because he doesn't have great hands and he struggles finishing over length.


he literally has had less than 5 attempts at finishing as a roll man this year. The issue isn't his hands. It's the fact that he doesn't roll. He needs to take what he can get - he just wants to eat the pretty way driving from the perimeter showing his ball handling skills. I'm pretty sure the coaching staff will start making him roll more and also posting up more. He's failing at being one dimensional.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 5:45 pm    Post subject:

The thought of a center taking 3 pointers probably mortifies Byron, but I think it would really help unclog the lane. Randle's jumper is all kinds of wonky right now, but Roy's got a solid stroke. Have him float out to the 3 like Big Z did in Cleveland for the pick and pop.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 6:01 pm    Post subject:

There is the pick n pop, the pick n roll, and what the Lakers run, the pick n look confused.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 6:03 pm    Post subject:

Reflexx wrote:
Losing Ed Davis was significant.
This.
Davis was a big part of our team last season. He was our best big last year.

Clarkson right now is our primary ball handler but even though he is in his 2nd year and is clearly more confident, he is averaging less assists than he was when he was starting last year.

Part of that is the lack of finishers around the rim like Davis. Hibbert isn't quick and mobile enough and Randle almost never moves without the ball. It's one thing I don't like about Randle's "point forward" mentality. He ball watches often.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 6:10 pm    Post subject:

paolomagma wrote:
Reflexx wrote:
Losing Ed Davis was significant.
This.
Davis was a big part of our team last season. He was our best big last year.

Clarkson right now is our primary ball handler but even though he is in his 2nd year and is clearly more confident, he is averaging less assists than he was when he was starting last year.

Part of that is the lack of finishers around the rim like Davis. Hibbert isn't quick and mobile enough and Randle almost never moves without the ball. It's one thing I don't like about Randle's "point forward" mentality. He ball watches often.


Ya. I don't doubt the mans strengths. But I've been saying for a couple weeks now he looks like a 1-trick pony. Kind of disappointing.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 8:02 pm    Post subject:

paolomagma wrote:
Reflexx wrote:
Losing Ed Davis was significant.
This.
Davis was a big part of our team last season. He was our best big last year.

Clarkson right now is our primary ball handler but even though he is in his 2nd year and is clearly more confident, he is averaging less assists than he was when he was starting last year.

Part of that is the lack of finishers around the rim like Davis. Hibbert isn't quick and mobile enough and Randle almost never moves without the ball. It's one thing I don't like about Randle's "point forward" mentality. He ball watches often.


He stands too much around the 3 point line. Someone has to tell him he is not a SF neither a stretch four without a jump shot to actually stretch something.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 8:05 pm    Post subject:

Legacy wrote:
paolomagma wrote:
Reflexx wrote:
Losing Ed Davis was significant.
This.
Davis was a big part of our team last season. He was our best big last year.

Clarkson right now is our primary ball handler but even though he is in his 2nd year and is clearly more confident, he is averaging less assists than he was when he was starting last year.

Part of that is the lack of finishers around the rim like Davis. Hibbert isn't quick and mobile enough and Randle almost never moves without the ball. It's one thing I don't like about Randle's "point forward" mentality. He ball watches often.


Ya. I don't doubt the mans strengths. But I've been saying for a couple weeks now he looks like a 1-trick pony. Kind of disappointing.


He's making himself a one trick pony and the coaching staff is allowing it.
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