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Dreamshake
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 Posted: Thu Dec 17, 2015 11:34 am Post subject: |
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[quote="wolfpaclaker"] | Quote: |
Can anyone even say they have an offense other than high screen/roll and Harden? They don't do a lot of other things beyond that. |
Nope.... |
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Telleris
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| Posted: Thu Dec 17, 2015 3:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Dr. Laker wrote: | | wolfpaclaker wrote: | | Quote: |
The problem is Dwight, he's always been a guy who produced high stats and lots of stupid, the production always outweighed the stupid, but with the low stats he's now putting out, the only production he's giving his team is the stupid, which is really just points for the opponents. |
From what I've seen he is top 5 in rebounding and FG percentage and has a high PER. It's about opportunities as well, they don't feed him the ball the way they were last year when Josh Smith was there as well. Having a 4 man like Josh Smith who can do a lot of what Lamar Odom used to really helps a team with a target inside. He's not someone you can throw the ball into and to expect great things,but as a screen setter, cutter, roller etc. all still elite IMO. I don't think Houston runs a smart O. They rely waaaay too much on 3's and not on good offensive execution. And their D is really bad on most nights. Houston is your classic analytics approach built/driven team that will never get it, because Morey doesn't see it beyond that. Can anyone even say they have an offense other than high screen/roll and Harden? They don't do a lot of other things beyond that. |
My take - Howard is in a slight physical decline and a major mental funk and the combo has rendered him into a shell of himself.
He's a 12/12 big who is paid like a 24/12 big, has a serious attitude problem and now he's missing chunks of seasons. He whined his way out of Orlando, loafed his way out of LA and will now pout his way out of Houston. |
His physical decline isn't really consistent either, it seems to be a lot of niggling things, sore knee, tightening in the back etc, which makes it even worse because he'll pull out a game with 20 and 20, and then give them 6 and 6 the next 3, rinse repeat. Because if the injuries he's had, it's likely that will just get worse over time until those good games disappear.
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ocho
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| Posted: Fri Dec 18, 2015 10:26 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Yahoo Sources: As a basketball fit with the Houston Rockets fails to materialize, guard Ty Lawson on trading block. yhoo.it/1PbiDK9 |
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wolfpaclaker
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| Posted: Fri Dec 18, 2015 2:39 pm Post subject: |
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| ocho wrote: | | Quote: | | Yahoo Sources: As a basketball fit with the Houston Rockets fails to materialize, guard Ty Lawson on trading block. yhoo.it/1PbiDK9 |
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Two ball dominant guards rarely if ever work. It's far more likely you'll see them fail, than succeed. It's the same thing unfortunately with playing 2 big guys out there right now in this era. Too many teams still making the same mistakes - but you don't want to rely heavily on a lineup that has 2 ball dominant guards or 2 really big/C types. It's so obvious, yet many GM's still making the same mistake.
To Bernie's credit, he benched Ty right away and has even given him some DNP's. So at least he saw the issues immediately.
Morey should be on the hot seat, as smart as he is with numbers, he hasn't done a good job with surrounding Dwight and Harden with talent or good enough coaching. |
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rwongega
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Telleris
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| Posted: Fri Dec 18, 2015 4:55 pm Post subject: |
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| wolfpaclaker wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | Quote: | | Yahoo Sources: As a basketball fit with the Houston Rockets fails to materialize, guard Ty Lawson on trading block. yhoo.it/1PbiDK9 |
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Two ball dominant guards rarely if ever work. It's far more likely you'll see them fail, than succeed. It's the same thing unfortunately with playing 2 big guys out there right now in this era. Too many teams still making the same mistakes - but you don't want to rely heavily on a lineup that has 2 ball dominant guards or 2 really big/C types. It's so obvious, yet many GM's still making the same mistake.
To Bernie's credit, he benched Ty right away and has even given him some DNP's. So at least he saw the issues immediately.
Morey should be on the hot seat, as smart as he is with numbers, he hasn't done a good job with surrounding Dwight and Harden with talent or good enough coaching. |
if he was certain about it, he would have offered a little more than nothing, and not had the contract unguaranteed for the year. It's not like he traded away a bunch of mostly unprotected first round picks with a 3 year deal.
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Fri Dec 18, 2015 5:57 pm Post subject: |
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| ocho wrote: | | Quote: | | Yahoo Sources: As a basketball fit with the Houston Rockets fails to materialize, guard Ty Lawson on trading block. yhoo.it/1PbiDK9 |
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I think most here called that happening when the Rockets went after Lawson.
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wolfpaclaker
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| Posted: Fri Dec 18, 2015 6:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Telleris wrote: | | wolfpaclaker wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | Quote: | | Yahoo Sources: As a basketball fit with the Houston Rockets fails to materialize, guard Ty Lawson on trading block. yhoo.it/1PbiDK9 |
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Two ball dominant guards rarely if ever work. It's far more likely you'll see them fail, than succeed. It's the same thing unfortunately with playing 2 big guys out there right now in this era. Too many teams still making the same mistakes - but you don't want to rely heavily on a lineup that has 2 ball dominant guards or 2 really big/C types. It's so obvious, yet many GM's still making the same mistake.
To Bernie's credit, he benched Ty right away and has even given him some DNP's. So at least he saw the issues immediately.
Morey should be on the hot seat, as smart as he is with numbers, he hasn't done a good job with surrounding Dwight and Harden with talent or good enough coaching. |
if he was certain about it, he would have offered a little more than nothing, and not had the contract unguaranteed for the year. It's not like he traded away a bunch of mostly unprotected first round picks with a 3 year deal. |
There's no doubt that was a horrendous deal for the Lakers, but in their defense the one thing, I think Nash is an outstanding shooter and had he remained healthy, he'd have been a decent fit. The big problem was health and poor coaching in terms of being able to control star players. We never really got a chance at seeing a healthy Nash play for more than 30 games. And yes, that's probably the worst deal Mitch has ever made. However he's won a few rings as a GM, trading for Pau, trading Shaq and re-building a roster around Kobe etc. In Morey, you've got a guy who hasn't shown he understands basketball. Has Morey even played basketball at a high (pro) level? (I'm curious, IDK). He's great at analytics, but building a championship roster goes beyond that and I wonder if Morey understands that. |
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Telleris
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| Posted: Fri Dec 18, 2015 9:48 pm Post subject: |
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| wolfpaclaker wrote: | | Telleris wrote: | | wolfpaclaker wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | Quote: | | Yahoo Sources: As a basketball fit with the Houston Rockets fails to materialize, guard Ty Lawson on trading block. yhoo.it/1PbiDK9 |
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Two ball dominant guards rarely if ever work. It's far more likely you'll see them fail, than succeed. It's the same thing unfortunately with playing 2 big guys out there right now in this era. Too many teams still making the same mistakes - but you don't want to rely heavily on a lineup that has 2 ball dominant guards or 2 really big/C types. It's so obvious, yet many GM's still making the same mistake.
To Bernie's credit, he benched Ty right away and has even given him some DNP's. So at least he saw the issues immediately.
Morey should be on the hot seat, as smart as he is with numbers, he hasn't done a good job with surrounding Dwight and Harden with talent or good enough coaching. |
if he was certain about it, he would have offered a little more than nothing, and not had the contract unguaranteed for the year. It's not like he traded away a bunch of mostly unprotected first round picks with a 3 year deal. |
There's no doubt that was a horrendous deal for the Lakers, but in their defense the one thing, I think Nash is an outstanding shooter and had he remained healthy, he'd have been a decent fit. The big problem was health and poor coaching in terms of being able to control star players. We never really got a chance at seeing a healthy Nash play for more than 30 games. And yes, that's probably the worst deal Mitch has ever made. However he's won a few rings as a GM, trading for Pau, trading Shaq and re-building a roster around Kobe etc. In Morey, you've got a guy who hasn't shown he understands basketball. Has Morey even played basketball at a high (pro) level? (I'm curious, IDK). He's great at analytics, but building a championship roster goes beyond that and I wonder if Morey understands that. |
It would have been a horrible combination, but that aside, the question is more, is Kupchak still a good GM? I'm not asking, was he good, i'm not even asking did he win titles, Joe Dumars did as well.
But in a fast moving market, pass success doesn't really dictate future success (people also routinely get credit for involvement in success that is no way due to their qualities), especially when your team's methodology changes, the lakers are now trying to build through draft picks, would the lakers have been better off bringing in someone with a better feel for youth than someone who didn't make a draft pick for nearly a decade? The Warrior are a good example there, Myers didn't build that team but he does seem well suited to that consolidation phase, OKC could have used that too.
Morey, the most pertinent question is, has the competitive advantage for analytics eroded so far that you're better off bringing in someone with other strengths? It might be yes now, if not, it will be yes very soon. I certainly don't think his tenure should last past his current contract even if Durant goes to join Harden and they win a title or two.
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Sat Dec 19, 2015 1:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Telleris wrote: | | wolfpaclaker wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | Quote: | | Yahoo Sources: As a basketball fit with the Houston Rockets fails to materialize, guard Ty Lawson on trading block. yhoo.it/1PbiDK9 |
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Two ball dominant guards rarely if ever work. It's far more likely you'll see them fail, than succeed. It's the same thing unfortunately with playing 2 big guys out there right now in this era. Too many teams still making the same mistakes - but you don't want to rely heavily on a lineup that has 2 ball dominant guards or 2 really big/C types. It's so obvious, yet many GM's still making the same mistake.
To Bernie's credit, he benched Ty right away and has even given him some DNP's. So at least he saw the issues immediately.
Morey should be on the hot seat, as smart as he is with numbers, he hasn't done a good job with surrounding Dwight and Harden with talent or good enough coaching. |
if he was certain about it, he would have offered a little more than nothing, and not had the contract unguaranteed for the year. It's not like he traded away a bunch of mostly unprotected first round picks with a 3 year deal. |
And it isn't like Lawson ever was, or ever will be, in the class of a 38 yo Steve Nash.
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wolfpaclaker
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| Posted: Sun Dec 20, 2015 8:16 am Post subject: |
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| Dwight showing last night why I was saying he's far from done. He's still a better player than DeAndre Jordan, who was arguably the most pursued and hyped FA last year. He's no longer ORL Dwight, but he's easily good for 13/12/2 every night and most importantly fits into the style of O that is becoming very common and successful in the NBA - high tempo, high usage of S/R, a C's primary value being as a defensive anchor and controlling boards. |
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Sun Dec 20, 2015 1:27 pm Post subject: |
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And Howard was schooled by Cousins the game before. He is what he is now, a guy who can do it sometimes but can't be counted on to do it every game. Or even play every game. Kind of like Kobe, only Kobe does it on offense while Dwight does it on defense. If someone gives him a max contract then they will deserve what they get.
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LakerLanny
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| Posted: Fri Dec 25, 2015 9:27 pm Post subject: |
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| wolfpaclaker wrote: | | Dwight showing last night why I was saying he's far from done. He's still a better player than DeAndre Jordan, who was arguably the most pursued and hyped FA last year. He's no longer ORL Dwight, but he's easily good for 13/12/2 every night and most importantly fits into the style of O that is becoming very common and successful in the NBA - high tempo, high usage of S/R, a C's primary value being as a defensive anchor and controlling boards. |
I would rather have Jordan, but I admit it is a good comparison. Really comes down to NBA miles.
And Merry Christmas Pac!
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AY2043
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| Posted: Fri Dec 25, 2015 11:58 pm Post subject: |
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| wolfpaclaker wrote: | | Dwight showing last night why I was saying he's far from done. He's still a better player than DeAndre Jordan, who was arguably the most pursued and hyped FA last year. He's no longer ORL Dwight, but he's easily good for 13/12/2 every night and most importantly fits into the style of O that is becoming very common and successful in the NBA - high tempo, high usage of S/R, a C's primary value being as a defensive anchor and controlling boards. |
He's basically turning in to 2011 Tyson Chandler....................................... |
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wolfpaclaker
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| Posted: Sat Dec 26, 2015 9:01 am Post subject: |
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| LakerLanny wrote: | | wolfpaclaker wrote: | | Dwight showing last night why I was saying he's far from done. He's still a better player than DeAndre Jordan, who was arguably the most pursued and hyped FA last year. He's no longer ORL Dwight, but he's easily good for 13/12/2 every night and most importantly fits into the style of O that is becoming very common and successful in the NBA - high tempo, high usage of S/R, a C's primary value being as a defensive anchor and controlling boards. |
I would rather have Jordan, but I admit it is a good comparison. Really comes down to NBA miles.
And Merry Christmas Pac! |
Thanks Lanny - Happy Holidays to you to, man. 
Yeah that's my point - he's sort of like a prime Tyson/DeAndre, which is still a very, very valuable player. Not a franchise player like in Orlando, but that was inevitable after 30. Guys with his athleticism or his dependence on athleticism can't sustain it for that long. I mean the guy's in his 12th year in the league. Bigs in general tend to decline around 30 for some reason. |
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Dreamshake
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| Posted: Sat Dec 26, 2015 11:03 am Post subject: |
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| wolfpaclaker wrote: | | Telleris wrote: | | wolfpaclaker wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | Quote: | | Yahoo Sources: As a basketball fit with the Houston Rockets fails to materialize, guard Ty Lawson on trading block. yhoo.it/1PbiDK9 |
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Two ball dominant guards rarely if ever work. It's far more likely you'll see them fail, than succeed. It's the same thing unfortunately with playing 2 big guys out there right now in this era. Too many teams still making the same mistakes - but you don't want to rely heavily on a lineup that has 2 ball dominant guards or 2 really big/C types. It's so obvious, yet many GM's still making the same mistake.
To Bernie's credit, he benched Ty right away and has even given him some DNP's. So at least he saw the issues immediately.
Morey should be on the hot seat, as smart as he is with numbers, he hasn't done a good job with surrounding Dwight and Harden with talent or good enough coaching. |
if he was certain about it, he would have offered a little more than nothing, and not had the contract unguaranteed for the year. It's not like he traded away a bunch of mostly unprotected first round picks with a 3 year deal. |
There's no doubt that was a horrendous deal for the Lakers, but in their defense the one thing, I think Nash is an outstanding shooter and had he remained healthy, he'd have been a decent fit. The big problem was health and poor coaching in terms of being able to control star players. We never really got a chance at seeing a healthy Nash play for more than 30 games. And yes, that's probably the worst deal Mitch has ever made. However he's won a few rings as a GM, trading for Pau, trading Shaq and re-building a roster around Kobe etc. In Morey, you've got a guy who hasn't shown he understands basketball. Has Morey even played basketball at a high (pro) level? (I'm curious, IDK). He's great at analytics, but building a championship roster goes beyond that and I wonder if Morey understands that. |
Building a championship roster involves having an all-time player 90% of the time. Those type of players are almost impossible to get. The roster Morey built last year likely wins a title if you swap Harden for a prime Kobe. No roster Mitch has ever built wins if you make the same swap.
Let's not act like 5 dudes have been winning almost all of the titles for the past decade or so. |
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Dreamshake
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| Posted: Sat Dec 26, 2015 11:08 am Post subject: |
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| Telleris wrote: | | I certainly don't think his tenure should last past his current contract even if Durant goes to join Harden and they win a title or two. |
His tenure shouldn't last even if they win a title or two? The Rockets have never been bad under Morey and he built this team with minimal assets. He's never even had a high lotto pick. He clearly hasn't been a bad GM. |
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Sat Dec 26, 2015 12:03 pm Post subject: |
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| wolfpaclaker wrote: | | LakerLanny wrote: | | wolfpaclaker wrote: | | Dwight showing last night why I was saying he's far from done. He's still a better player than DeAndre Jordan, who was arguably the most pursued and hyped FA last year. He's no longer ORL Dwight, but he's easily good for 13/12/2 every night and most importantly fits into the style of O that is becoming very common and successful in the NBA - high tempo, high usage of S/R, a C's primary value being as a defensive anchor and controlling boards. |
I would rather have Jordan, but I admit it is a good comparison. Really comes down to NBA miles.
And Merry Christmas Pac! |
Thanks Lanny - Happy Holidays to you to, man.
Yeah that's my point - he's sort of like a prime Tyson/DeAndre, which is still a very, very valuable player. Not a franchise player like in Orlando, but that was inevitable after 30. Guys with his athleticism or his dependence on athleticism can't sustain it for that long. I mean the guy's in his 12th year in the league. Bigs in general tend to decline around 30 for some reason. |
You can tell in some games that Dwight has it all and is feeling it and can still dominate. In other games he just can't.
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Wino
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| Posted: Sun Dec 27, 2015 1:54 am Post subject: |
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| LakerLanny wrote: | | wolfpaclaker wrote: | | Dwight showing last night why I was saying he's far from done. He's still a better player than DeAndre Jordan, who was arguably the most pursued and hyped FA last year. He's no longer ORL Dwight, but he's easily good for 13/12/2 every night and most importantly fits into the style of O that is becoming very common and successful in the NBA - high tempo, high usage of S/R, a C's primary value being as a defensive anchor and controlling boards. |
I would rather have Jordan, but I admit it is a good comparison. Really comes down to NBA miles.
And Merry Christmas Pac! |
At least Jordan has more acceptance of his limitations. Dwight still thinks he is a #1 option and wants to be the man. He wants the respect of a superstar in this league, and he has never really been that guy.
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MJST
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| Posted: Sun Dec 27, 2015 3:36 am Post subject: |
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| wolfpaclaker wrote: | | Dwight showing last night why I was saying he's far from done. He's still a better player than DeAndre Jordan, who was arguably the most pursued and hyped FA last year. He's no longer ORL Dwight, but he's easily good for 13/12/2 every night and most importantly fits into the style of O that is becoming very common and successful in the NBA - high tempo, high usage of S/R, a C's primary value being as a defensive anchor and controlling boards. |
and then today... |
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Luke
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55
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| Posted: Sun Dec 27, 2015 6:21 pm Post subject: |
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Dwight's back surgery will shorten his career by a couple of years. So take what you thought would be his decline and take 2 years off of that.
He's risky at this point and a headache |
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SuperboyReformed
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| Posted: Sun Dec 27, 2015 9:31 pm Post subject: |
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we're going to see more and more things like this dwight situation. the nba got into this bad habit in recent years of overpromoting and overhyping athletic freaks. the problem is that this is a skill game, and these guys won't last the way mj/kobe did...who are far more than just athletic freaks. in previous eras, athletic freaks were never this highly valued.
athleticism goes away around 30-ish in pro sports. it's been extended a little due to great technology and progress. but skill, work, and intelligence is what allowed mj to come back with all those post moves, fadeaways, and drop steps in the last 3peat. lebron is not going to age that way because he's just ahtleticisim and gimmicky playmaking. that will go away. dwight is even worse, just muscles and a little bit of skill. deandres is awful, it was shocking for those who think like me to see him get a max contract. |
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Dreamshake
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| Posted: Mon Dec 28, 2015 12:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Wino wrote: | | At least Jordan has more acceptance of his limitations. Dwight still thinks he is a #1 option and wants to be the man. He wants the respect of a superstar in this league, and he has never really been that guy. |
No he doesn't. He has accepted being a 2nd option since he's been here, without complaint. He's getting a near career low in shots this year and isn't complaining. That myth needs to die.
His play is not up to par (injuries and overall dumb stuff), but Howard has put winning ahead of $$ and individual numbers since he got to Houston. |
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wolfpaclaker
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| Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2015 6:54 am Post subject: |
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What the heck happened last night Dream? I saw the score before bed and Houston was up big at the half. Wound up losing when I checked this morning.
You guys are what you are at this point - a .500 team. |
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