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| Should America accept Syrian refugees |
| YES |
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48% |
[ 43 ] |
| NO |
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45% |
[ 40 ] |
| UNDECIDED |
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3% |
[ 3 ] |
| OTHER (explain) |
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2% |
[ 2 ] |
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| Total Votes : 88 |
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| Author |
Message |
jodeke
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 Posted: Fri Nov 20, 2015 5:09 pm Post subject: Poll on accepting or not Syrian refugees |
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I know there's a discussion about this in the OT forum. I make this poll to see where LG members stand. Volatile subject. Keep it civil, don't get it locked.
LINK
American citizens are more against accepting Syrian refugees than for acceptance. How does LG feel?
Discuss
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C M B
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| Posted: Fri Nov 20, 2015 8:14 pm Post subject: |
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If you're still on the fence about this, there is a new ISIS video online which depicts 30-50 teenage boys (Muslims, presumably) who are lined up, face-down in dirt with their hands tied behind their backs. A man with an AK walks along the line and unceremoniously shoots each boy in the back of the head. Just in case his work was sloppy, his friends help out by finishing with a bullet bonanza.
I won't post the link because the imagery is 10/10 PTSD inducing and I don't want to be held responsible for any scarring. But that should give you an idea of why these people are running, and what they're running from. Would you run?
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Aussiesuede
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| Posted: Fri Nov 20, 2015 8:21 pm Post subject: |
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Accepting refugees comes with the territory. if a country insists on meddling in the internal affairs of another country that exacerbates the upheaval of the lives of innocents in that country, then accepting some of the displaced is a pittance. The alternative is to mind ones own business. But deciding to not mind ones own business means you're giving tacit approval to helping clean up the mess you helped to exacerbate. Only scumbags expect to just reap benefits without dealing with consequences.
You reap what you sow Muriel. You Reap what you sow...
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Fri Nov 20, 2015 9:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Aussiesuede wrote: | Accepting refugees comes with the territory. if a country insists on meddling in the internal affairs of another country that exacerbates the upheaval of the lives of innocents in that country, then accepting some of the displaced is a pittance. The alternative is to mind ones own business. But deciding to not mind ones own business means you're giving tacit approval to helping clean up the mess you helped to exacerbate. Only scumbags expect to just reap benefits without dealing with consequences.
You reap what you sow Muriel. You Reap what you sow... |
That sums it up well. |
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DaMuleRules
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Location: Making a safety stop at 15 feet.
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| Posted: Fri Nov 20, 2015 9:08 pm Post subject: |
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| C M B wrote: | If you're still on the fence about this, there is a new ISIS video online which depicts 30-50 teenage boys (Muslims, presumably) who are lined up, face-down in dirt with their hands tied behind their backs. A man with an AK walks along the line and unceremoniously shoots each boy in the back of the head. Just in case his work was sloppy, his friends help out by finishing with a bullet bonanza.
I won't post the link because the imagery is 10/10 PTSD inducing and I don't want to be held responsible for any scarring. But that should give you an idea of why these people are running, and what they're running from. Would you run? |
If anyone has watched even a portion of one ISIS video, it becomes clear that these guys aren't simply fringe elements following a religion. They are psychopathic murderers who enjoy slaughtering people - THEIR OWN PEOPLE.
The very notion of not being willing to accept the refugees of such atrocities is inhumane, even if there is a tiny perceived risk involved. |
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Halflife
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| Posted: Fri Nov 20, 2015 9:52 pm Post subject: |
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| No. Too risky. |
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999
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Joined: 19 Oct 2006
Posts: 20266
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| Posted: Fri Nov 20, 2015 10:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Accept them |
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Fri Nov 20, 2015 10:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Halflife wrote: | | No. Too risky. |
How so?
No refugee has been even remotely tied to terrorism.
The terrorists that have acted are all European nationals who were radicalized outside of Syria.
It's much easier to simply have an ISIS member from Belgium or France travel on their European passport and be here in a day than it is to find a way to send them through the process of pretending to be a refugee where they have to make dangerous ocean crossings and all the other logistical risks and delays associated.
There's no logic to ISIS trying to send operatives through the refugee channel. So why are we so much in arms because they claimed that's what they'd do?
Talk about being manipulated by terrorists.
The bottom-line is that ISIS already has multiple ways compromise our security. So trying to sneak people in through the refugee channel makes no sense.
ISIS hopes that if they can get enough people to bite on their fear mongering about refugees, that fear mongering will make everyone play right into their hands by further persecuting those who have already suffered.
ISIS is playing so many Americans like a violin right now.
It's truly sad and embarrassing. |
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Halflife
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Joined: 15 Aug 2015
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| Posted: Fri Nov 20, 2015 10:53 pm Post subject: |
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| DaMuleRules wrote: | | Halflife wrote: | | No. Too risky. |
How so?
No refugee has been even remotely tied to terrorism.
The terrorists that have acted are all European nationals who were radicalized outside of Syria.
It's much easier to simply have an ISIS member from Belgium or France travel on their European passport and be here in a day than it is to find a way to send them through the process of pretending to be a refugee where they have to make dangerous ocean crossings and all the other logistical risks and delays associated.
There's no logic to ISIS trying to send operatives through the refugee channel. So why are we so much in arms because they claimed that's what they'd do?
Talk about being manipulated by terrorists.
The bottom-line is that ISIS already has multiple ways compromise our security. So trying to sneak people in through the refugee channel makes no sense.
ISIS hopes that if they can get enough people to bite on their fear mongering about refugees, that fear mongering will make everyone play right into their hands by further persecuting those who have already suffered.
ISIS is playing so many Americans like a violin right now.
It's truly sad and embarrassing. |
Not true they (media) said one of the 8 used the refugee influx into Europe as their shield. Doesn't matter. The percentage of Muslims who agree/support Isis is too great. Even if that number is 1%. Instead of running they should turn around and fight their war.
We don't have the resources in our country to support our own. The list of reasons why we shouldn't is long. Morality doesn't trump any of them. We aren't the worlds police, nor are we the worlds Shepard . Isis is happy all of those refugees are leaving. Makes the crowd in favor that much larger.
Life isn't fair. How many of these refugees supported the persecution of women? How many of them supported the killing of homosexuals? Clean those out and the number probably greatly drops. Then maybe. |
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No. 17
Star Player
Joined: 29 Dec 2007
Posts: 7040
Location: L.A
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| Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2015 5:30 am Post subject: |
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Most Americans Oppose Admitting Syrian Refugees, Poll Finds
| Quote: | A majority of Americans support the use of force against ISIS and oppose admitting Syrian refugees in to the United States in the aftermath of ISIS’s Paris attacks, according to a new poll released Friday.
Some 54% of total respondents said they oppose taking in refugees,according to a new poll from the Washington Post and ABC News, and 52% say they’re not confident in the American screening process to weed out possible terrorists.
But if refugees are admitted, the poll found, an overwhelming 78% say all refugees should be considered equally– only 18% support a preference for Christian refugees. Presidential candidates Jeb Bush and Ted Cruz have both argued for giving Christian refugees a special preference.
The poll found that 73% of surveyed Americans support U.S. participation in a military operation against ISIS, and 60% support the use of ground forces. 59% of Americans said the U.S. is at war with radical Islam, and 81% say they anticipate a serious terror attack on U.S. soil– one of few moments since 9/11 when anxiety about another attack has reached this level.
The results come a day after the House passed a bill to drastically tighten security measures for Syrian and Iraqi refugees, against the objections of President Obama. |
http://time.com/4122938/refugees-syria-america-poll/
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Fan0Bynum17
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Joined: 30 Nov 2005
Posts: 15436
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| Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2015 6:09 am Post subject: |
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| No. 17 wrote: | Most Americans Oppose Admitting Syrian Refugees, Poll Finds
| Quote: | A majority of Americans support the use of force against ISIS and oppose admitting Syrian refugees in to the United States in the aftermath of ISIS’s Paris attacks, according to a new poll released Friday.
Some 54% of total respondents said they oppose taking in refugees,according to a new poll from the Washington Post and ABC News, and 52% say they’re not confident in the American screening process to weed out possible terrorists.
But if refugees are admitted, the poll found, an overwhelming 78% say all refugees should be considered equally– only 18% support a preference for Christian refugees. Presidential candidates Jeb Bush and Ted Cruz have both argued for giving Christian refugees a special preference.
The poll found that 73% of surveyed Americans support U.S. participation in a military operation against ISIS, and 60% support the use of ground forces. 59% of Americans said the U.S. is at war with radical Islam, and 81% say they anticipate a serious terror attack on U.S. soil– one of few moments since 9/11 when anxiety about another attack has reached this level.
The results come a day after the House passed a bill to drastically tighten security measures for Syrian and Iraqi refugees, against the objections of President Obama. |
http://time.com/4122938/refugees-syria-america-poll/ |
Cowards. They're willing to throw violence at them in the form of the military, but they're not willing to take a slight risk of their own skin to help their victims. |
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Fan0Bynum17
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Joined: 30 Nov 2005
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| Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2015 6:23 am Post subject: |
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| What I don't get is why people think deaths from a terrorist attack is like 1000 times less tolerable than similar destruction, of other causes. We keep falling right into the goals of terrorism, by pissing ourselves in fear and ramping up security everywhere to an absurd degree, being paranoid, all to prevent what? Something we'd find relatively acceptable if a white christian did it? How we react to terrorism is exactly how terrorism works, that's how it yields so much bigger results relative to the size of its attack. But no, the risk of harm from terrorism, no matter the size of the risk, is completely unacceptable, even if it means sacrificing our liberties, our troops, and our peace of minds. |
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Chronicle
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Location: Manhattan
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| Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2015 6:26 am Post subject: |
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| Halflife wrote: | | No. Too risky. |
Ignorance 101
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Halflife
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Joined: 15 Aug 2015
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| Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2015 7:06 am Post subject: |
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| Chronicle wrote: | | Halflife wrote: | | No. Too risky. |
Ignorance 101 |
Nope. Please post out governments screening process. Guarantee me everyone coming in has never been in favor or involved in the persecution of women, homosexuals or those of differing religious beliefs. Guarantee me they have never supported any radical group. You can't. It only takes one with a mission. I love people. We clearly don't have the resources to help our poor, homeless, sick, out of work. So why add to that pot. |
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DaMuleRules
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Joined: 10 Dec 2006
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Location: Making a safety stop at 15 feet.
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| Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2015 7:24 am Post subject: |
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| Halflife wrote: | | Chronicle wrote: | | Halflife wrote: | | No. Too risky. |
Ignorance 101 |
Nope. Please post out governments screening process. Guarantee me everyone coming in has never been in favor or involved in the persecution of women, homosexuals or those of differing religious beliefs. Guarantee me they have never supported any radical group. You can't. It only takes one with a mission. I love people. We clearly don't have the resources to help our poor, homeless, sick, out of work. So why add to that pot. |
Why hold the refugees to a standard we don't even hold our own citizens to? |
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2015 7:32 am Post subject: |
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| Halflife wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | | Halflife wrote: | | No. Too risky. |
How so?
No refugee has been even remotely tied to terrorism.
The terrorists that have acted are all European nationals who were radicalized outside of Syria.
It's much easier to simply have an ISIS member from Belgium or France travel on their European passport and be here in a day than it is to find a way to send them through the process of pretending to be a refugee where they have to make dangerous ocean crossings and all the other logistical risks and delays associated.
There's no logic to ISIS trying to send operatives through the refugee channel. So why are we so much in arms because they claimed that's what they'd do?
Talk about being manipulated by terrorists.
The bottom-line is that ISIS already has multiple ways compromise our security. So trying to sneak people in through the refugee channel makes no sense.
ISIS hopes that if they can get enough people to bite on their fear mongering about refugees, that fear mongering will make everyone play right into their hands by further persecuting those who have already suffered.
ISIS is playing so many Americans like a violin right now.
It's truly sad and embarrassing. |
Not true they (media) said one of the 8 used the refugee influx into Europe as their shield. |
Actually it is true. Some reported that early on. But it turned out not to be the case.
Actually it does. The ISIS members that matter are already in or midst and being radicalized. There's no need for them to use the inefficient and problematic refugee path.
| Quote: | | The percentage of Muslims who agree/support Isis is too great. Even if that number is 1%. Instead of running they should turn around and fight their war. |
If they supported ISIS, they wouldn't be fleeing.
| Quote: | | We don't have the resources in our country to support our own. The list of reasons why we shouldn't is long. Morality doesn't trump any of them. We aren't the worlds police, nor are we the worlds Shepard . |
And yet our government has behaved that way with the support of a huge portion of our population. Thus creating the problems that have arisen in that part of the world.
| Quote: | | Isis is happy all of those refugees are leaving. Makes the crowd in favor that much larger. |
They are even happier that we are playing right into their hands by letting fear dictate our actions.
Such a trite BS saying that is absolutely meaningless.
| Quote: | | How many of these refugees supported the persecution of women? How many of them supported the killing of homosexuals? Clean those out and the number probably greatly drops. Then maybe. |
As I said below, if that's your standard, it'd mean a lot more if you started cleaning our house as well. |
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Halflife
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Joined: 15 Aug 2015
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| Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2015 8:02 am Post subject: |
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| DaMuleRules wrote: | | Halflife wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | | Halflife wrote: | | No. Too risky. |
How so?
No refugee has been even remotely tied to terrorism.
The terrorists that have acted are all European nationals who were radicalized outside of Syria.
It's much easier to simply have an ISIS member from Belgium or France travel on their European passport and be here in a day than it is to find a way to send them through the process of pretending to be a refugee where they have to make dangerous ocean crossings and all the other logistical risks and delays associated.
There's no logic to ISIS trying to send operatives through the refugee channel. So why are we so much in arms because they claimed that's what they'd do?
Talk about being manipulated by terrorists.
The bottom-line is that ISIS already has multiple ways compromise our security. So trying to sneak people in through the refugee channel makes no sense.
ISIS hopes that if they can get enough people to bite on their fear mongering about refugees, that fear mongering will make everyone play right into their hands by further persecuting those who have already suffered.
ISIS is playing so many Americans like a violin right now.
It's truly sad and embarrassing. |
Not true they (media) said one of the 8 used the refugee influx into Europe as their shield. |
Actually it is true. Some reported that early on. But it turned out not to be the case.
Actually it does. The ISIS members that matter are already in or midst and being radicalized. There's no need for them to use the inefficient and problematic refugee path.
| Quote: | | The percentage of Muslims who agree/support Isis is too great. Even if that number is 1%. Instead of running they should turn around and fight their war. |
If they supported ISIS, they wouldn't be fleeing.
| Quote: | | We don't have the resources in our country to support our own. The list of reasons why we shouldn't is long. Morality doesn't trump any of them. We aren't the worlds police, nor are we the worlds Shepard . |
And yet our government has behaved that way with the support of a huge portion of our population. Thus creating the problems that have arisen in that part of the world.
| Quote: | | Isis is happy all of those refugees are leaving. Makes the crowd in favor that much larger. |
They are even happier that we are playing right into their hands by letting fear dictate our actions.
Such a trite BS saying that is absolutely meaningless.
| Quote: | | How many of these refugees supported the persecution of women? How many of them supported the killing of homosexuals? Clean those out and the number probably greatly drops. Then maybe. |
As I said below, if that's your standard, it'd mean a lot more if you started cleaning our house as well. |
Too funny. So one of the eight didn't use the refugee influx via Greece? Ok. Again doesn't matter. I'm on an iPad so this is a bit more nuanced when replying.
Cleaning our house? - How, prison? Or going all trump and rounding up all illegals? Or getting rid of our warmongers in office? Or militias? That's the point we are in no place to take anymore bodies. Can't clean out religious zealots who persecute because their beliefs fall under our dated laws. If they stone, noose, behead someone they are dealt with. So comparing them to us can't be done.
If we didn't let Isis/radicals dictate our actions, their would be no airport screening, most of Intel and oh yeah.....bombs being dropped.
Some of the refugees coming over aren't at odds with Isis for what they are doing. They are at odds with them because of the Sunni/Shia allegiance.
Crazy to think radicals wouldn't try to take advantage of refugee influx.
Homelessness, joblessness, vets, poverty, wealth disparity are all far greater issues. Saving the rest of the world should be low on the list for us.
Let's deal with our current immigration problem before making it worse. |
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2015 8:43 am Post subject: |
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The Syrian purport was a fake.
Immigration and the refugees are two entirely different issues, and this idea that because you have one issue, you shouldn't address others is ridiculous.
I have yet to see any anti-Syrian refugee arguments that are based on any substance - just fear and exclusion. |
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Theseus
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Joined: 15 Dec 2007
Posts: 14166
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| Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2015 9:20 am Post subject: |
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| We have to accept the refugees. Anything less would be uncivilized |
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Halflife
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Joined: 15 Aug 2015
Posts: 16703
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| Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2015 9:47 am Post subject: |
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| DaMuleRules wrote: | The Syrian purport was a fake.
Immigration and the refugees are two entirely different issues, and this idea that because you have one issue, you shouldn't address others is ridiculous.
I have yet to see any anti-Syrian refugee arguments that are based on any substance - just fear and exclusion. |
Fear? Sure a little, but there is a little with illegal immigration as well. Your argument is basically " it's just the moral thing to do". No different than the pres. Saying " we are better than that" when responding to those against it. It's ridiculous that we are constantly playing the morality police.
Bottom line is that on a purely resource level we shouldn't take in the refugees. In regards to this and immigration being entirely different how so? Both are leaving because current circumstance is crippling. One literally and the other financially. We are a save haven.
Tell me why( which you can't) we should take on more (though slight) before we have solid plans of attack for our current issues.
Also has noted. I am fine with refugees if you promise that none of them have persecuted homosexuality/ women/thinkers. None have ever been part of a militant group or have shown sympathy for one.
Plus when do they leave? Or are they on our dollar? |
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jodeke
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Location: In a world where admitting to not knowing something is considered a great way to learn.
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| Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2015 3:31 pm Post subject: |
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DaMuleRules wrote:
| Quote: | | I have yet to see any anti-Syrian refugee arguments that are based on any substance - just fear and exclusion. |
Fear yes, exclusion no. A Idea is not easily unmask.
How many refugees not now linked to ISIS can be, will be, swayed in the future.
I don't discount your position there are no arguments on substance, to a degree.
To quote a old saying, "Put a fox in the hen house and you'll have chicken for dinner."
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Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2015 3:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Halflife wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | The Syrian purport was a fake.
Immigration and the refugees are two entirely different issues, and this idea that because you have one issue, you shouldn't address others is ridiculous.
I have yet to see any anti-Syrian refugee arguments that are based on any substance - just fear and exclusion. |
Fear? Sure a little, but there is a little with illegal immigration as well. Your argument is basically " it's just the moral thing to do". No different than the pres. Saying " we are better than that" when responding to those against it. It's ridiculous that we are constantly playing the morality police.
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Yeah, it is a drag expecting us to do the right thing consistently. |
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jodeke
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| Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2015 4:12 pm Post subject: |
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| 24 wrote: | | Halflife wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | The Syrian purport was a fake.
Immigration and the refugees are two entirely different issues, and this idea that because you have one issue, you shouldn't address others is ridiculous.
I have yet to see any anti-Syrian refugee arguments that are based on any substance - just fear and exclusion. |
Fear? Sure a little, but there is a little with illegal immigration as well. Your argument is basically " it's just the moral thing to do". No different than the pres. Saying " we are better than that" when responding to those against it. It's ridiculous that we are constantly playing the morality police.
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Yeah, it is a drag expecting us to do the right thing consistently. |
I don't know if you're being sarcastic or not but it really is a drag.
We're always coming to the aid of other countries. When is the last time one came to ours?
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Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
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DaMuleRules
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Posts: 52654
Location: Making a safety stop at 15 feet.
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| Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2015 4:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Halflife wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | The Syrian purport was a fake.
Immigration and the refugees are two entirely different issues, and this idea that because you have one issue, you shouldn't address others is ridiculous.
I have yet to see any anti-Syrian refugee arguments that are based on any substance - just fear and exclusion. |
Fear? Sure a little, but there is a little with illegal immigration as well. Your argument is basically " it's just the moral thing to do". No different than the pres. Saying " we are better than that" when responding to those against it. It's ridiculous that we are constantly playing the morality police.
Bottom line is that on a purely resource level we shouldn't take in the refugees. In regards to this and immigration being entirely different how so? Both are leaving because current circumstance is crippling. One literally and the other financially. We are a save haven.
Tell me why( which you can't) we should take on more (though slight) before we have solid plans of attack for our current issues.
Also has noted. I am fine with refugees if you promise that none of them have persecuted homosexuality/ women/thinkers. None have ever been part of a militant group or have shown sympathy for one.
Plus when do they leave? Or are they on our dollar? |
When you play World Police and wage war in foreign lands, then being the "morality police" is an obligation. |
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2015 4:18 pm Post subject: |
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| jodeke wrote: | DaMuleRules wrote:
| Quote: | | I have yet to see any anti-Syrian refugee arguments that are based on any substance - just fear and exclusion. |
Fear yes, exclusion no. A Idea is not easily unmask.
How many refugees not now linked to ISIS can be, will be, swayed in the future.
I don't discount your position there are no arguments on substance, to a degree.
To quote a old saying, "Put a fox in the hen house and you'll have chicken for dinner." |
Of course it is. It's the very definition of exclusion. |
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