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uberzev
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Joined: 25 Jan 2002
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 Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 9:07 am Post subject: Smush has no business starting |
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He has the second worst defensive rating of any starting PG on a playoff team. He's even worse than Sucky was last year. 
Start Devean and let Smush anchor the second unit.
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nesli
Starting Rotation
Joined: 25 Jun 2005
Posts: 276
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| Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 9:09 am Post subject: |
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I think he is the biggest reason why this team plays so poorly at the defensive end.
Yes he sucks. |
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venturalakersfan
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Joined: 14 Apr 2001
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Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 9:10 am Post subject: |
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He is still a better defensive option than Chucky.
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wolfpaclaker
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Joined: 29 May 2002
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| Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 9:13 am Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | He is still a better defensive option than Chucky. |
He steals and at times can bother players with his length.
I think our biggest problem with Parker is that we know he can be a good defender. It's just that he choses to play defense like one would on the street.
Sucks for the the team defense. |
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Exick
Site Staff
Joined: 17 Mar 2005
Posts: 15880
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| Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 9:16 am Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | He is still a better defensive option than Chucky. |
True, but that's not saying much. Smush's defense is like knowing your girlfriend is cheating on you. Chucky's was like knowing she was cheating on you because you caught her in the shower with your dad. |
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OdomX2
Star Player
Joined: 25 Nov 2004
Posts: 3973
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| Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 9:17 am Post subject: Re: Smush has no business starting |
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| uberzev wrote: | He has the second worst defensive rating of any starting PG on a playoff team. He's even worse than Sucky was last year.
Start Devean and let Smush anchor the second unit. |
Smush has no business being in the NBA. You'd think a guy given the chance to not just play, but START in the NBA for the Lakers would at the very least, give his all on every play. I'd cut his ass and look for another scrap heap CBA player that wants to play every night. |
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Pappy
Star Player
Joined: 02 May 2004
Posts: 3203
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| Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 9:20 am Post subject: |
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| in his defense (no pun) he was slated to be our back-up behind Mckee which would've suited him well especially with his limited NBA experience. "IF" Mckee worked out Smush would be better in spurts! I think He's experiencing the strains of the full NBA experience, starting every night, travel, mental and physical recovery, etc.. he's basically a rookie out there hitting the wall! i think he's far exceeded his ability at this point. no vet in front of him his whats more damaging to our team than Smush's weaknesses! |
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wolfpaclaker
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Joined: 29 May 2002
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| Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 9:24 am Post subject: |
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^
Actually Mckie was supposed to be the closer. Phil wanted a vet to close out games because they are better at executing and making smart decisions.
I think they wanted Smush to start - give the team 20-25 minutes and the rest goes to McKie and Vujacic.
Unfortunately McKie has been injury saddled this season. Laker s could've definitely used a vet presence. |
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Pappy
Star Player
Joined: 02 May 2004
Posts: 3203
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| Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 9:28 am Post subject: |
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| wolf I think Mckee was slated to start and close. phil likes vet stability to start the game and close. "if" mckee worked out, he definetly would've been tha starter and closer with Smush's youth and spark off the bench for those 20-25 minutes. |
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wolfpaclaker
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| Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 9:33 am Post subject: |
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Isn't it scary that a SPL starter is this team's starting 1?
Is there any other playoff team or team in the NBA that has that?
You know, we do rag on Smush BUT he has proven a good role player. The problem with this entire roster is that you are asking them to do more than they should have to (or talent fits)
Odom - Expected to be a Superstar or dominant scorer when he's really more of an all-around player
Kwame - Expected to be a post presence when he's not even a starter. He would be better suited coming off the bench and bringing energy from there.
Parker - Just talked about him above
It's just too much for most of these guys. Some nights they will deliver but on a lot they just can't.
We need to be patient and just wait for the Lakers to get that cap money so they can sign a quality FA or two. The first thing they need is another offensive option than Bryant or Odom. After that they need some of their young players to be brought along (Bynum) and they can shift some of thsese starters to the bench.
Then they might actually become a deep team with some good talent. |
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Sage_10
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Joined: 24 Dec 2005
Posts: 6668
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| Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 9:50 am Post subject: |
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That's a horrible thing to say. Nobody deserves to be told their defense is as bad as Sucky Atkins.
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magic_bryant
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Joined: 16 Oct 2002
Posts: 18179
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| Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 10:10 am Post subject: |
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Sasha DESERVES the starting spot at this point in time, if only to establish energy and a sense of urgency on Defense. Oddly enough, Sasha has become one of our defensive stoppers. Sure, he still makes mistakes, but for the most part, bothers every PG he faces, despite an OBVIOUS disadvantage in terms of speed, length, and overall athleticism. Start Sasha, let Smush play the 1 in the 2nd Unit with LO to allow Smush to be more offensive minded and aggressive. Also, against a 2nd string PG, SMush will be able to grab more steals leading to easy baskets to either EXTEND a lead or keep the game close, cause our 2nds unit is just HORRIBLE.
Steals and easy points for our 2nd unit (Smush) and man D with our starters (Sasha).
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Stephon Marbury on Kobe: "He's the only person on 'dis earth that can do 'dat. He guards people, like shuts 'em down. Then, to do 'dat on 'da offensive end. It's like 'Damn, I can't score on him AND he about to bust my ass." |
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gastr
Sixth Man
Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 82
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| Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 10:16 am Post subject: |
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| Drastically increase the team IQ and bench the Walking Turnover. I think he still has a use as an instant offense guy, but in limited minutes, certainly not in crunchtime. |
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Scoffs
Starting Rotation
Joined: 12 Aug 2001
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| Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 10:52 am Post subject: |
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| Neither Smush nor Sasha is the answer; we need to trade for a pg who plays better defense. Smush is a better player than Sasha, because he drives to the hoop once in a while. Sasha only shoots from the perimeter and misses 60% of the time. Plus, Sasha needs to stop committing stupid reach-in fouls. |
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LakerLanny
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Joined: 24 Oct 2001
Posts: 47581
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| Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 11:09 am Post subject: |
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| magic_bryant wrote: | Sasha DESERVES the starting spot at this point in time, if only to establish energy and a sense of urgency on Defense. Oddly enough, Sasha has become one of our defensive stoppers. Sure, he still makes mistakes, but for the most part, bothers every PG he faces, despite an OBVIOUS disadvantage in terms of speed, length, and overall athleticism. Start Sasha, let Smush play the 1 in the 2nd Unit with LO to allow Smush to be more offensive minded and aggressive. Also, against a 2nd string PG, SMush will be able to grab more steals leading to easy baskets to either EXTEND a lead or keep the game close, cause our 2nds unit is just HORRIBLE.
Steals and easy points for our 2nd unit (Smush) and man D with our starters (Sasha). |
Start Sasha? Why?
I wouldn't even play Sasha if I was Phil, much less start him.
Smush is better than Sasha in every facet of the game.
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mike_kb
Starting Rotation
Joined: 24 Jun 2005
Posts: 384
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| Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 11:23 am Post subject: |
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| Smush playing patented-Chucky defense is extremely disturbing. With him playing such lazy defense, we are really better off with a matador like Chucky who can at least nail the 3-ball consistently. We have been giving up over 100 points since January. Disturbing. |
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magic_bryant
Franchise Player
Joined: 16 Oct 2002
Posts: 18179
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| Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 11:27 am Post subject: |
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| LakerLanny wrote: | | magic_bryant wrote: | Sasha DESERVES the starting spot at this point in time, if only to establish energy and a sense of urgency on Defense. Oddly enough, Sasha has become one of our defensive stoppers. Sure, he still makes mistakes, but for the most part, bothers every PG he faces, despite an OBVIOUS disadvantage in terms of speed, length, and overall athleticism. Start Sasha, let Smush play the 1 in the 2nd Unit with LO to allow Smush to be more offensive minded and aggressive. Also, against a 2nd string PG, SMush will be able to grab more steals leading to easy baskets to either EXTEND a lead or keep the game close, cause our 2nds unit is just HORRIBLE.
Steals and easy points for our 2nd unit (Smush) and man D with our starters (Sasha). |
Start Sasha? Why?
I wouldn't even play Sasha if I was Phil, much less start him.
Smush is better than Sasha in every facet of the game. |
Start Sasha because he'll TRY on defense. But more importantly, it'll open Smush's eyes to why he got benched and he'll get back to playing D.
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Stephon Marbury on Kobe: "He's the only person on 'dis earth that can do 'dat. He guards people, like shuts 'em down. Then, to do 'dat on 'da offensive end. It's like 'Damn, I can't score on him AND he about to bust my ass." |
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LakerLanny
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| Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 11:31 am Post subject: |
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| magic_bryant wrote: |
Start Sasha because he'll TRY on defense. But more importantly, it'll open Smush's eyes to why he got benched and he'll get back to playing D. |
I will give you that point. Sasha does seem to try harder on defense than Smush. I have no idea why.
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CorkyTomjanovich
Star Player
Joined: 13 Dec 2004
Posts: 3486
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| Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 11:35 am Post subject: Re: Smush has no business starting |
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| OdomX2 wrote: | | uberzev wrote: | He has the second worst defensive rating of any starting PG on a playoff team. He's even worse than Sucky was last year.
Start Devean and let Smush anchor the second unit. |
Smush has no business being in the NBA. You'd think a guy given the chance to not just play, but START in the NBA for the Lakers would at the very least, give his all on every play. I'd cut his ass and look for another scrap heap CBA player that wants to play every night. |
Let’s be fair here. If Smush has an OPEN 3, its money nearly every single time. And he is a great finisher. Pretty solid help defender as well. His problem (like many pg's) is that he is easily beat on the perimeter, and a big reason why is that he overplays out there, doesn’t give the opponent proper space, takes poor angles, and probably doesn’t work as hard out there as he could.
He is keeper for sure, he just needs to learn a little. This far into the season I am astounded how the coaching staff has not corrected his overplay problem.
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Vlade
Star Player
Joined: 08 May 2005
Posts: 2373
Location: valley of dry bone dreams
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| Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 11:36 am Post subject: |
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| LakerLanny wrote: | | magic_bryant wrote: | Sasha DESERVES the starting spot at this point in time, if only to establish energy and a sense of urgency on Defense. Oddly enough, Sasha has become one of our defensive stoppers. Sure, he still makes mistakes, but for the most part, bothers every PG he faces, despite an OBVIOUS disadvantage in terms of speed, length, and overall athleticism. Start Sasha, let Smush play the 1 in the 2nd Unit with LO to allow Smush to be more offensive minded and aggressive. Also, against a 2nd string PG, SMush will be able to grab more steals leading to easy baskets to either EXTEND a lead or keep the game close, cause our 2nds unit is just HORRIBLE.
Steals and easy points for our 2nd unit (Smush) and man D with our starters (Sasha). |
Start Sasha? Why?
I wouldn't even play Sasha if I was Phil, much less start him.
Smush is better than Sasha in every facet of the game. |
Dear Lanny,
Can't say I agree with you on this one... I guess your feelings for Sasha are similar to your feelings for Luke!
Sasha does expend more energy on the defensive end than Smush, and is a better full court press defender. In the half court, they are about equal (which isn't necessarily good!). At this point in their careers I would say they shoul both be bench players, but I think that Sasha has more potential: a better shooting stroke and better court vision. Though he seems smaller than Smush, he is taller, and in a couple years he should fill out more, making him a stronger defender.
All that said, I agree that Sasha should not start right now. Unfortunately, neither should Smush!
Cheers,
Vlade
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CorkyTomjanovich
Star Player
Joined: 13 Dec 2004
Posts: 3486
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| Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 11:38 am Post subject: |
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| mike_kb wrote: | | Smush playing patented-Chucky defense is extremely disturbing. With him playing such lazy defense, we are really better off with a matador like Chucky who can at least nail the 3-ball consistently. We have been giving up over 100 points since January. Disturbing. |
Chucky is pure garbage. Pure. Smush is far far better. Compare the tapes from last year and this year. This is an improved team and the big reason is because of the holes plugged at 1 and 4. Smush for Sucky, and Kwame at 4 instead of Odom.
This team gets good once Smush tightens up the perimeter, if he can, and Kwame gets it going.
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magic_bryant
Franchise Player
Joined: 16 Oct 2002
Posts: 18179
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| Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 11:44 am Post subject: Re: Smush has no business starting |
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| CorkyTomjanovich wrote: | | OdomX2 wrote: | | uberzev wrote: | He has the second worst defensive rating of any starting PG on a playoff team. He's even worse than Sucky was last year.
Start Devean and let Smush anchor the second unit. |
Smush has no business being in the NBA. You'd think a guy given the chance to not just play, but START in the NBA for the Lakers would at the very least, give his all on every play. I'd cut his ass and look for another scrap heap CBA player that wants to play every night. |
Let’s be fair here. If Smush has an OPEN 3, its money nearly every single time. And he is a great finisher. Pretty solid help defender as well. His problem (like many pg's) is that he is easily beat on the perimeter, and a big reason why is that he overplays out there, doesn’t give the opponent proper space, takes poor angles, and probably doesn’t work as hard out there as he could.
He is keeper for sure, he just needs to learn a little. This far into the season I am astounded how the coaching staff has not corrected his overplay problem. |
No, Smush gets beat because he doesn't care about D and just gives up on the play. He's an ELITE athlete at the 1. There's no reason he should EVER get beat consistently.
Anyone wonder how Sasha can give AI, Billups, Parker, TJ Ford, and Bibby trouble? He doesn't give up. Sorta like Artest, he just plays defense as a battle of attrition, "I'll break your will before you break mine".
_________________
Stephon Marbury on Kobe: "He's the only person on 'dis earth that can do 'dat. He guards people, like shuts 'em down. Then, to do 'dat on 'da offensive end. It's like 'Damn, I can't score on him AND he about to bust my ass." |
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mike_kb
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Joined: 24 Jun 2005
Posts: 384
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| Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 11:48 am Post subject: |
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| CorkyTomjanovich wrote: | | mike_kb wrote: | | Smush playing patented-Chucky defense is extremely disturbing. With him playing such lazy defense, we are really better off with a matador like Chucky who can at least nail the 3-ball consistently. We have been giving up over 100 points since January. Disturbing. |
Chucky is pure garbage. Pure. Smush is far far better. Compare the tapes from last year and this year. This is an improved team and the big reason is because of the holes plugged at 1 and 4. Smush for Sucky, and Kwame at 4 instead of Odom.
This team gets good once Smush tightens up the perimeter, if he can, and Kwame gets it going. |
Chucky garbage? I wonder why Jerry West picked him up. I guess he sees something different.
As much as I hated Chucky's non-existence defense, Smush is duplicating him to my own disbelief. I agree that Smush has the ability to become a good defender, but alas, it's the same old story of being enamored with the P word. We see flashes of his brilliance of pressuring the ballhandler with his long arms and racking up steals on some nights.
Our defense is better this year because of Kwame at the 4, Smush has very little to do with it. |
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LakerLanny
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Joined: 24 Oct 2001
Posts: 47581
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| Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 11:56 am Post subject: |
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| Vlade wrote: | Dear Lanny,
Can't say I agree with you on this one... I guess your feelings for Sasha are similar to your feelings for Luke!
Sasha does expend more energy on the defensive end than Smush, and is a better full court press defender. In the half court, they are about equal (which isn't necessarily good!). At this point in their careers I would say they shoul both be bench players, but I think that Sasha has more potential: a better shooting stroke and better court vision. Though he seems smaller than Smush, he is taller, and in a couple years he should fill out more, making him a stronger defender.
All that said, I agree that Sasha should not start right now. Unfortunately, neither should Smush!
Cheers,
Vlade |
Hi Vlade!
Yeah, I hear you but the reality is Sasha may be trying harder on defense, but he is offensively challenged and I am not so sure about his better shooting stroke. 36% from the floor doesn't instill a great deal of confidence compared to 46% from the floor for Smush.
Smush is a good scorer, Sasha is a very marginal scorer. Smush has excellent athletic ability, Sasha does not.
I agree with CorkyT's point that Smush is doing too much overplaying and taking bad angles on defense. A lot of his mistakes are easily correctable as they are more a matter of bad positioning and poor technique instead of getting abused on physical ability.
Sasha can try as hard as he wants, but his physical limitations make his contributions inconsistent and limited at best. Smush can be a 16, 7, 5 type of player (pts, boards, assists) if he sets his mind to it and either applies proper defensive technique or gets coached better on the defensive end. Sasha is never going to even put up the numbers in the league on percentage or ppg that Smush is already putting up, even with his mistakes.
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Ank
Star Player
Joined: 17 May 2005
Posts: 1043
Location: New York, NY
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| Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 11:57 am Post subject: |
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| mike_kb wrote: | | CorkyTomjanovich wrote: | | mike_kb wrote: | | Smush playing patented-Chucky defense is extremely disturbing. With him playing such lazy defense, we are really better off with a matador like Chucky who can at least nail the 3-ball consistently. We have been giving up over 100 points since January. Disturbing. |
Chucky is pure garbage. Pure. Smush is far far better. Compare the tapes from last year and this year. This is an improved team and the big reason is because of the holes plugged at 1 and 4. Smush for Sucky, and Kwame at 4 instead of Odom.
This team gets good once Smush tightens up the perimeter, if he can, and Kwame gets it going. |
Chucky garbage? I wonder why Jerry West picked him up. I guess he sees something different.
As much as I hated Chucky's non-existence defense, Smush is duplicating him to my own disbelief. I agree that Smush has the ability to become a good defender, but alas, it's the same old story of being enamored with the P word. We see flashes of his brilliance of pressuring the ballhandler with his long arms and racking up steals on some nights.
Our defense is better this year because of Kwame at the 4, Smush has very little to do with it. |
That's a good point about West picking Chucy up. I hope he doesn't explode like Jones.
Smush is a good pick up though. A lot of NBA starting PGs have stats around 12/3/3 with a steal or two and good penetrartion.
Our problem is that Smush isn't an initiator. He plays more of a SG role. Parker would be a great backup though. Good cheap pickup. |
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