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| Possibility of obtaining a 2nd option WHILE keeping Lamar? |
| Very possible...teams will take our trade bait for a good player... |
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11% |
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| No way in HECK!!! LO MUST go!!! |
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53% |
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| We don't need a 2nd option...keep LO at all cost... |
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3% |
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| Just keep LO and hope for a B Diddy/VC type miracle... |
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20% |
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| I'd take Danny Granger over LO any day! |
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11% |
[ 7 ] |
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| Total Votes : 60 |
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KA_2
Star Player
Joined: 08 Jan 2005
Posts: 1883
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 Posted: Sun Feb 05, 2006 4:27 am Post subject: |
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| Zhengi wrote: | | Yeah, and what about Andre Miller? |
Andre Miller isn't that good. Get that crap out of your head.
| Zhengi wrote: | | What about Odom? |
You should know by now that Odom wasn't that good either. Hardly the type of impact FA the Lakers are looking for.
The Lakers aren't thinking Andre Miller or Lamar Odom, they're thinking Yao, Amare, LeBron. And two of them resigned to MAX contracts.
| Quote: | | There are players who manage to leave their teams. Again, this goes back to understanding the CBA. If the Raptors wanted to keep TMac, they could have kept him. But the fact of the matter is that an RFA like TMac was able to force his way out. That's the way an RFA does it. |
Firstly, when the Raptors let Tmac go he wasn't a superstar yet. And secondly, they still had Vince Carter on the team. However, most importantly, even in cases where the franchise doesn't want to keep their best player, the Lakers still have to hope they don't get outbided by other teams with cap space. Guess what, that's something else they don't control, and that's what makes relying on the 07 cap space plan risky; very little control. We could see another playing getting overpaid to the Hawks (like JJ last summer), or some other lottery team with cap space.
Logically speaking, is there any reason the Cavs don't offer LeBron James every single dime of the MAX they can offer him? The chance is so slim it's not worth discussing. Bosh is the most likely acquirable FA at this point in time, and he's still not likely at all. But Yao is gone. Amare is gone. LeBron will likely be gone the minute he can sign a MAX deal. Bosh is all that is left, and I expect him to sign a MAX deal soon too (but hey, we can always hope he finds his way to the Lakers, but by then it'll be 2008).
| Quote: | | As for all that BS about Duncan going to the Magic, Duncan said he was going to resign with the Spurs even before TMac had the Raptors work out a deal to the Magic. Heck, all the Lakers have is Kobe? You're talking about Kobe as if he wasn't one of the top players in the league along with Duncan. That's just dumb. |
What's dumb is that you weren't aware that the Duncan to Magic rumors were still very strong when Tmac finally came to Orlando.
| Quote: | | If you don't want people to nitpick, then you shouldn't nitpick your own posts by bolding and italicizing stuff. |
Just about the worst reasoned post I've read in a while. Say what?!?!? 
| Quote: | | Otherwise, what's the point if you won't even back up your emphasizing of your own posts. |
Please stop posting, it's sad.
| Quote: | | So are you saying that the Lakers can't be bidders? They'll have cap space with Brian Grant's contract ending and the possibility of opting out of Kwame's contract. What's even more funny is that you're trying to predict what other teams will do and which players they are going to bid on. |
What's funny here is that you can't interpret simple sentences. My point from the beginning is that the likelyhood is low that a franchise player's team decides not to resign them to MAX dollars. It's pretty simple math. We said it would happen to Yao. Check. We should it would happen to Amare. Check. It will very, VERY likely happen to LeBron. Bosh is probably the Lakers' last hope. And by then it'll be 2008, when Kobe will be 29 and won't have a ton of prime years left.
| Quote: | | Seriously, answer this question. How do you know the Lakers won't outbid other teams? |
Speaking of not knowing a (bleep) thing about the CBA.
The team that drafts a player, under the CBA, can offer them more money/years than any other team in the league, no matter how much cap space those teams have. So if those teams (say, the Cavs) offer their franchise player's the MAX (say, LeBron James), it is extremely likely that those players will resign with those teams. I'll translate for you; that means that they wouldn't become a Los Angeles Laker in those situations, and that waiting for a FA pipedream is probably going to be a waste of time. Should I type slower?
| Quote: | | I'll say one thing, the Lakers won't outbid anyone if they didn't have the 2007 cap plan, which all of you people hate. So it's a lot better to have the possibility of cap space than not trying to get that impact player like some of you are suggesting. |
Uh, I'm not suggesting the Lakers scrap the 2007 plan. I'm suggesting they don't rely on it. By keeping Odom and hoping for Bynum to turn into one of the best centers in the league, they're relying on an impact FA. That's extremely risky and, based on NBA history (the facts of the past), they probably won't come to the Lakers.
| Quote: | | It's not important because every situation is different. |
Say what? This tells me absolutely nothing.
| Quote: | | But let me turn the question around to you. How would the Lakers have gotten Shaq if they didn't have any cap space? So if you're suggesting the Lakers try to get an FA like Shaq, wouldn't the Lakers need cap space, that same thing that you're arguing against? Funny how you guys don't think. |
What's funny is that you're telling me I can't think, yet you're the one who apparently is unable to interpret simple sentences. Where did I say the Lakers shouldn't have any cap space in 2007? Learn to read. Carefully.
| Quote: | | As for all that other stuff, you have to understand that the CBA is completely different. But we already established that you don't know anything about the current CBA, so anymore would just confuse you. |
It would be straight hilarious to see you attempt to converse about the CBA with me. You're so out of your league, it's not even fair.
| Quote: | | There is already enough money for the Lakers to pick up an impact player. Trading Odom at that time would only be for facilitating trades to another team and having cap space will help that if we want to get any of the RFAs. Lakers can also use the cap space to compensate for BYC status of players. So instead of ranting about how bad the cap space plan is, think first as to why the Lakers are doing it. If anything, I trust the Lakers' FO knowledge more than yours. |
The "FO knowledge" signed Aaron McKie, Vlade Divac, and Devean George to the last three MLE contracts they handed out. That's quite some impressive "FO knowledge" there.
| Quote: | | And again, I ask you, WTF has Jerry West done for the Grizzlies? |
Please learn to read. As I said before, when West came to town the Grizzlies became a 50 win team and made the postseason two consecutive years in a row, and will make it a third year in a row this season. Before West, the Grizzlies were in the lottery annually.
The Lakers' FO, meanwhile, built a team around a much better player than Pau Gasol (Kobe Bryant is his name) and missed the playoffs entirely, winning 10 fewer games than the Grizzlies did last season and the season before.
Additionally, what's laughable about you ignoring Jerry West's departure is that you are also completely ignoring his brilliant career as a GM with the Lakers. What about that? Which GM was better with the Lakers, West or Kupchak? If you say anyone other than West, you should ban yourself from life.
| Quote: | | If anything, Jerry West's major contributions were to the 2000 version of the Lakers. He was handed the Showtime Lakers and he almost messed it up. History is favorable to Jerry West, and I love the guy, but some of you act like he's God. Jerry West has made some very bad mistakes as well, and almost made some seriously bad ones too if there weren't other people to keep him in check. |
Well, I'm convinced, you can't be older than 18. Jerry West signed Shaq and traded for Kobe. He also acquired Nick Van Exel and Eddie Jones, and was able to keep them on those Laker teams with Shaq and Kobe. He once duped the Cavs out of their 1st rounder and drafted James Worthy with their pick the following season. He gave up litterally no one to get that pick.
Even if you believe Jerry West is overrated (clearly something only a young kid would say), it doesn't really matter. Because Mitch Kupchak is not even rated period, and this is what the discussion is about and my point from the beginning about how likely it is that the Lakers will be able to successfully manevere a FA here in 07 or 08.
| Quote: | | They haven't done jack. That team that went on to become a 50 win team was already there. The only genius move that Jerry West made was picking up Hubie Brown as the coach. |
Holy Christ. No, Jerry West didn't just add Hubie Brown (who was a great pickup as coach). He also added Mike Miller, Earl Watson, James Posey, and Bonzi Wells. The result was a 50 win team in 04, another postseason team (45 wins) in 05, and right now in 06 the Grizzlies are on pace for 50 wins again.
Get your ish straight kid. :roll:
| Quote: | | So honest question back to you, did you watch the Grizzlies before Jerry West went there? And here's another one, where are the Grizzlies now? What moves has Jerry West made to put them into contenders for the championship? Answer, none. They're right there back where they were last year, and the year before. The 6th seed in the West. I thought you wanted the Lakers to be better than that. What can Jerry West do to make us better when his own current team isn't that much better than our team right now? |
Baffling, just baffling. You do know that the Jerry West built two dynasties with the Lakers, right? You do realize that few GMs are able to build title contenders in a matter of a few seasons, right? You do realize that Mitch Kupchak hasn't done jack with the Lakers since becoming a GM, right? That his entire team is Kobe Bryant, the player Jerry West traded for, right?
| Quote: | | Magic Johnson did it when he came back to the Lakers in 95. Michael Jordan did it when he return to the Wizards. Zo, a possible future HOF, did it with the Miami Heat. So I wouldn't classify it as a miracle. |
Learn to read; how often do two HOFer's sign for well below market value? You also realize that those examples only prove my point; that out of hundreds of FAs in the past decade or so, only a handful of those HOF-type players actually go to other teams.
| Quote: | | I would answer in the same way if I had nothing to challenge an argument that just pwned me. |
Not really, considering you're getting so badly beaten here, that I almost feel bad for your prospective children. Almost.
| Quote: | | Yeah, but since the point flew over your head, I'll try t.o. t.y.p.e s.l.o.w.e.r s.o y.o.u c.a.n g.e.t i.t. S.k.y w.a.s w.r.o.n.g e.v.e.n t.h.o.u.g.h h.e w.a.s 1.0.0.% c.e.r.t.a.i.n t.h.a.t S.w.i.f.t w.o.u.l.d o.n.l.y g.o t.o a t.e.a.m t.h.a.t w.o.u.l.d o.f.f.e.r h.i.m t.h.e m.o.s.t m.o.n.e.y. |
Oh my, now this is sad. You do know that the Rockets offered him the most money, right? Right?!?!? That Swift didn't take less, right?
This is just too easy.
| Quote: | | Those were some bad facts. How does Steve Nash leave Dallas? A team with cap space signed him. How do you expect the Lakers to get such a player without cap space? Answer that question. |
Answer this question; as you reread my previous posts and realize that I never said the Lakers should scrap their 07 cap space plan altogether, exactly how stupid does it make you feel? Do you wish you were older so that you could comprehend simple syntax?
| Quote: | | And that statement about Mark Cuban. Irrelevant. Unless your psychic powers for seeing the future are telling you that every freaking owner in the NBA will willing pay their players. I definitely doubt that. Even Mark Cuban and Paul Allen, two billionaires with NBA teams, stopped paying players all the money they demanded. So once more, it's laughable how your "facts" about the future are so concrete and there are no other possibilities that can happen. |
I said likelyhood, and the likelyhood that the available FAs in 2007 and 2008 don't resign with their current teams is extremely slim. If you understood the CBA, you would realize that teams that draft players/keep their bird rights can sign them to more money than any other team. And that means the Lakers must pray that a team is dumb enough not to resign their franchise player to a MAX contract, AND then must hope and pray another team doesn't offer more money to that franchise player during the same offseason. Which means that the Lakers don't have any control over that player's destination if their home team decides to spend money on them. Which means it's risky to bank your future on FA pipedreams like LeBron.
| Quote: | | WOW, YOU ARE THE MAN!!!!!! SEE KIDS? IF YOU CAN'T MAKE A STATEMENT TO DEFEND YOUR POSITION, RIDICULE IT LIKE KA_2 IS DOING. THAT WAY, YOU CAN APPEAR TO BE SMART. |
Caps? I said before that you couldn't be any older than 18, but at this point it's clear that you're no where near HS graduation date.
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angel
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Joined: 31 Jul 2004
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Location: city of angels
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| Posted: Sun Feb 05, 2006 5:43 am Post subject: |
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James Worthy averaged in his career 17.6ppg, 5.0rpg, and 3.0apg.
Rashard Lewis in his career averages 15.9ppg, 5.9rpg and 1.6apg, 1.1spg, and 0.6bpg.
Lamar Odom in his career averages 15.9ppg, 8.4rpg, 4.5apg, 1.0spg, 1.1bpg.
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"Darkness cannot drive out darkness. Only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate. Only love can do that." ~~Martin Luther King Jr.~~ |
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bounty
Star Player
Joined: 15 Aug 2005
Posts: 3946
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| Posted: Sun Feb 05, 2006 1:48 pm Post subject: |
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| angel wrote: | James Worthy averaged in his career 17.6ppg, 5.0rpg, and 3.0apg.
Rashard Lewis in his career averages 15.9ppg, 5.9rpg and 1.6apg, 1.1spg, and 0.6bpg.
Lamar Odom in his career averages 15.9ppg, 8.4rpg, 4.5apg, 1.0spg, 1.1bpg. |
Great post. just shows that #'s alone mean doo doo
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RG73
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Joined: 14 Jul 2001
Posts: 11508
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| Posted: Sun Feb 05, 2006 2:02 pm Post subject: |
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| angel wrote: | James Worthy averaged in his career 17.6ppg, 5.0rpg, and 3.0apg.
Rashard Lewis in his career averages 15.9ppg, 5.9rpg and 1.6apg, 1.1spg, and 0.6bpg.
Lamar Odom in his career averages 15.9ppg, 8.4rpg, 4.5apg, 1.0spg, 1.1bpg. |
So one of these guys is a HoFer, a NCAA champ, 4 rings, Finals MVP...I don't know why you'd bring James into this discussion. That's comparing foie gras and spam. |
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THE_SHOES
Retired Number
Joined: 12 Apr 2001
Posts: 29556
Location: Taiwan
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| Posted: Sun Feb 05, 2006 2:23 pm Post subject: |
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| KA_2 wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | The fact that Lebron's people made contact with Buss this offseason is important to consider. |
Do we know what they talked about? Otherwise it doesn't mean a damn thing.
| Quote: | | As for trading Odom, if you want to bring in a second option, it is likely that he will be highly paid. If so, Odom's salary would probably be required to bring him in. |
Artest was an available 2nd option better than Odom that wasn't highly paid. Yeah, whoops, Lakers dropped the ball with that one. |
Nothing more than one confused individuals opinion...
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"According to ESPN.com's conference projections, the Lakers will finish 12th in the West, which prompted Bryant to tweet earlier this offseason, "12th I see.." |
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THE_SHOES
Retired Number
Joined: 12 Apr 2001
Posts: 29556
Location: Taiwan
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| Posted: Sun Feb 05, 2006 2:27 pm Post subject: |
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| RG73 wrote: | | angel wrote: | James Worthy averaged in his career 17.6ppg, 5.0rpg, and 3.0apg.
Rashard Lewis in his career averages 15.9ppg, 5.9rpg and 1.6apg, 1.1spg, and 0.6bpg.
Lamar Odom in his career averages 15.9ppg, 8.4rpg, 4.5apg, 1.0spg, 1.1bpg. |
So one of these guys is a HoFer, a NCAA champ, 4 rings, Finals MVP...I don't know why you'd bring James into this discussion. That's comparing foie gras and spam. |
Maybe, but it sure does spotlight an obvious prejudiced against LO doesn't it? Not to even mention the ongoing myth on this site that LO sucks... I love it myself... Numbers can only lie so much and, when the traders get through with their daily bull (bleep), it will become clear they never did no what they were bellyaching about and I so look forward to that day!
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"According to ESPN.com's conference projections, the Lakers will finish 12th in the West, which prompted Bryant to tweet earlier this offseason, "12th I see.." |
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The Dagger
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Joined: 15 Mar 2002
Posts: 7276
Location: Sovngarde
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| Posted: Sun Feb 05, 2006 2:31 pm Post subject: |
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| eniq 0x00 wrote: | | What's worse is the idiots who moan about Odom being worthless, yet they expect Odom to get high value from other teams. At least stay consistent you whiny (bleep). |
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The Dagger
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Joined: 15 Mar 2002
Posts: 7276
Location: Sovngarde
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| Posted: Sun Feb 05, 2006 2:40 pm Post subject: |
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Seriously though, it all depends on what we can get for Odom. If we can only get a one dimensional scorer, than what's the use? Kobe alone can equal a first and second option. Odom provides everything else we will need to compete. We should try to keep him, unless we can get a two way power forward; anything short of that and we should stick to the 2007 plan. People are trying to get out of Toronto, more than Mexico these days. Bosh can be had, if we play our cards right. In that scenario we keep Odom as our do everything player/third option and get that two way PF we so desperately covet. That is our best bet to be bling/bling contenders. Don't blow that up now for a one way scorer.
This is my dream lineup for 2008:
Smush or whomever/won't really matter...
Kobe/puppy crap
Odom/Fluke probably
Bosh/Towel boy
Bynum/Fluffer or whatever
Possibly get a solid point guard veteran for the MLE if possible. That team will compete for a title. And it is a possibility.
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KA_2
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Joined: 08 Jan 2005
Posts: 1883
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| Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 4:36 pm Post subject: |
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| THE_SHOES wrote: | | KA_2 wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | The fact that Lebron's people made contact with Buss this offseason is important to consider. |
Do we know what they talked about? Otherwise it doesn't mean a damn thing.
| Quote: | | As for trading Odom, if you want to bring in a second option, it is likely that he will be highly paid. If so, Odom's salary would probably be required to bring him in. |
Artest was an available 2nd option better than Odom that wasn't highly paid. Yeah, whoops, Lakers dropped the ball with that one. |
Nothing more than one confused individuals opinion... |
Says the guy that used to jock Fisher like his **** didn't stank.
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sodapoppenski
Star Player
Joined: 24 Apr 2005
Posts: 7364
Location: Washington, DC
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| Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 4:41 pm Post subject: |
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another
personal
thread.
we
without
every
separately?
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venturalakersfan
Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144475
Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 7:51 pm Post subject: |
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| KA_2 wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | The fact that Lebron's people made contact with Buss this offseason is important to consider. |
Do we know what they talked about? Otherwise it doesn't mean a damn thing. |
We know they talked about how Lebron wants to be a Laker.
| venturalakersfan wrote: | | As for trading Odom, if you want to bring in a second option, it is likely that he will be highly paid. If so, Odom's salary would probably be required to bring him in. |
| Quote: | | Artest was an available 2nd option better than Odom that wasn't highly paid. Yeah, whoops, Lakers dropped the ball with that one. |
It should be Yay, not woops.
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RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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magic_bryant
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Joined: 16 Oct 2002
Posts: 18179
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| Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 7:56 pm Post subject: |
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| B-Scott wrote: | the only way to get a 2nd option ,yet keep Lamar is trade Bynum. Fans though dont want to hear that. The celtics would probably rather have bynum over Lamar because of the contract. Plus the celtics are a young team,and would probably want to start over
George slava Bynum 1# pick for Pierce
Celtics would have...Gerald green..Al jefferson..Andrew bynum..Toni allen ..Nice potential frontline of Jefferson/Bynum for the next 12 yrs.Danny ainge would probably have visions of Parish/Mchale.
C Mihm
PF Kwame
SF Lamar
G Pierce
G Kobe
Lamar initiates and does the little things. 15 and 10. Pierce gives you 22 to 25 points. Kobe over 30. |
We really need an "ignore" button on here. 
_________________
Stephon Marbury on Kobe: "He's the only person on 'dis earth that can do 'dat. He guards people, like shuts 'em down. Then, to do 'dat on 'da offensive end. It's like 'Damn, I can't score on him AND he about to bust my ass." |
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KA_2
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Joined: 08 Jan 2005
Posts: 1883
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| Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 9:31 pm Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | We know they talked about how Lebron wants to be a Laker. |
Source? Link? Credibility?
| Quote: | | It should be Yay, not woops. |
No, whoops works fine.
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HermosaJoe
Starting Rotation
Joined: 12 Apr 2005
Posts: 506
Location: Hermosa Beach, CA
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| Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 11:40 pm Post subject: |
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| RG73 wrote: | | wolfpaclaker wrote: | | Quote: | | If you are holding out hope that LO becomes a good fit for us, fine...but if you think we are going to be able to add a 2nd option to this team without moving LO, I'd like to know how, who, and what team? Not even specifics...just possibilities |
Cap space in 2007.
The Lakers will have a max slot. There will be a host of free agents that can be good 2nd options.
And don't say they'll all be gone, because we know that's never ever happenned. There should be atleast 5 quality FA's that will test the waters and that would give a team a very good 2nd option. |
Still living in fantasy land are we?
Once again--here's a fact, a top tier free agent has never taken less money. Max slot or not, even signing a max player requires that the Lakers can offer more money than that player's team. That more or less automatically means you can expect to get either a Joe Johnson type of player, a solid, but not great talent who you'll have to overpay for, or an older all-star, like Nash, who's former team doesn't want to max out into the mid-30s.
So let's play this game again, shall we?
First off, lets deal with reality. Melo, Bosh, Wade, and Lebron will not be available for Odom in any deal, nor will they sign for less than the max. Thus, being restricted, their respective teams can and will outbid us. End the discussion about those guys, ain't happening.
Now, here's the restricted guys we could get by overpaying:
Diaw, West, Hinrich, Barbosa, Ridnour, Pietrus, Collison, Ford, Outlaw...yes, there is a good chance that not all of those guys will get matching offers from their teams if the Lakers overpay (and they'll have to overpay).
Of the guys with player options, Jamison and Lewis are the two likely to be available (again, their teams are unlikely to max them). Billups, Bibby and Dirk won't be available to us.
Among unrestricted guys there's Desmond Mason, Magloire, Nocioni, Mo Peterson and Vince Carter. I suspect Vince will get an extension from New Jersey soon anyway, so you can probably cross him off the list.
So yeah, some good guys available, but no one who will make us instant contenders. To get a guy like Hinrich or Rashard Lewis the team will almost certainly need to bid something close to the max. Then your cap room is almost gone. You can try to swing a sign and trade with Lamar at that point. So maybe you get Hinrich for your max slot and then Lewis for Odom. And then we'd be in pretty good shape.
Problem is, something like half the teams in the league will have substantial cap room in 07. So we're going to be bidding against a lot of teams. We can talk about how great it is to play in L.A. and all that but that hasn't seemed to have helped in the past.
Seeing as some of the targets we're waiting 2 years for could be had by trading Odom now, it obviously makes more sense to start now, instead of waiting another season after this for the inevietable. There's a pretty good free agent class this summer, with few teams having substantial cap room. That means that most free agents will have to settle for MLE contracts. A normal team would make a move for a better fit now, sign another better fit by offering a reasonable MLE deal this summer, and continue to make moves piece by piece. The strategy of making no substantial moves for 2-4 years has never been shown to be successful. In fact, I don't think any team has ever refused to make moves to improve for years on end in hopes that a miracle might happen.
If the Lakers want to tank it for a few years, you trade Kobe for picks, tank it and go for Oden in the draft when he declares. Then you have your young twin towers of Bynum and Oden and proceed to dominate the NBA for the next decade. That would be a sound strategy. And we'll get the friendly bounce in the lottery because Stern won't allow the Lakers to flounder in the gutter for too long (bad for ratings). So far as I'm know this is not the strategy. It is to run Kobe into the ground until he cannot perform at a high level, then hope that a micracle happens (Lebron wants less money to play with a broken down Kobe), and then hope that the scrubs they add will be enough to compete. It is utterly insane. No other GM in the league would do that to Kobe if they ran this team. They'd build now, or they'd deal Kobe and tank it for real. The present trajectory only serves to keep this team in mediocrity until Kobe finally breaks, and then forces the organization into yet another rebuild mode.
I'm not invested in whether Kobe gets more rings than Jordan--the only reason I'm concerned with maximizing Kobe's present is because we have a player capable of leading a normally talented team into contention. Thus, we have a shot right now to win. We may not have a shot with Kobe a few years down the road and will have to rebuild again anyway. So either you rebuild for real, or you make a run at winning right now. Winning right now means Odom has to be dealt--period. The last years have to be dealt--period. MLEs and LLEs have to be used to full effect. And we need to draft smart. If we had a Petrie or a Buford or a Kiki or a Dumars for a GM, this wouldn't be a problem (hell if Kobe were in the other locker room in Staples he wouldn't have this problem). They could make the moves and give Kobe the pieces to contend in another season or two. They wouldn't wait 2 more years to start building a team that can contend and won't be ready for another 4 years or so (when Kobe is on the other side of 30). Spin it however you want, the fact remains that the plan is utterly insane and stupid and I am 100% certain that you could not find another GM in the league who would go along with it if they had Kobe on their team. |
Thank you, RG. Thank goodness someone besides me sees that the so-called 2007 Plan is utterly crazy! A team has Kobe on their team....yet they want to suck (and I mean SUCK) for at least 3 years for MAYBE being good in 2007? Are you kidding me?! |
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Vlade
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Joined: 08 May 2005
Posts: 2373
Location: valley of dry bone dreams
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| Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 1:04 am Post subject: |
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| angel wrote: | James Worthy averaged in his career 17.6ppg, 5.0rpg, and 3.0apg.
Rashard Lewis in his career averages 15.9ppg, 5.9rpg and 1.6apg, 1.1spg, and 0.6bpg.
Lamar Odom in his career averages 15.9ppg, 8.4rpg, 4.5apg, 1.0spg, 1.1bpg. |
Look at who Worthy was playing with! And of course look at his stats during his prime...and during the PLAYOFFS... and then never, please, NEVER compare Big Game James to Lamar Odom!!!
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THE_SHOES
Retired Number
Joined: 12 Apr 2001
Posts: 29556
Location: Taiwan
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| Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 4:23 am Post subject: |
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| KA_2 wrote: | | THE_SHOES wrote: | | KA_2 wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | The fact that Lebron's people made contact with Buss this offseason is important to consider. |
Do we know what they talked about? Otherwise it doesn't mean a damn thing.
| Quote: | | As for trading Odom, if you want to bring in a second option, it is likely that he will be highly paid. If so, Odom's salary would probably be required to bring him in. |
Artest was an available 2nd option better than Odom that wasn't highly paid. Yeah, whoops, Lakers dropped the ball with that one. |
Nothing more than one confused individuals opinion... |
Says the guy that used to jock Fisher like his **** didn't stank. |
That means nothing to anybody but you and, I'll bet you don't have a clue as to why. I don't jock players I defend them against haters. You take a stance against Lakers I defend them when I think you haters have lost hyour minds! You do it pretty often to so, when you call me a "Fish jocker" don't leave out, LO, Horry,Sasha and Devean either cause I defended them as well against you "so called fans" That's what us homers do against you fake ass fans...
You may as well get it through that small mind of yours hater,I'm proud as many are of Fisher and,when you call me that use Caps! Only an idiot would'nt be proud of what Fish did for this franchise! Dude was greatly responsible or, played a huge part in the greatest playoff run in history. Anybody that can't appreciate that is no Laker fan. I can always smell a fake fan and, you wreak of complete phony...
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"According to ESPN.com's conference projections, the Lakers will finish 12th in the West, which prompted Bryant to tweet earlier this offseason, "12th I see.." |
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bounty
Star Player
Joined: 15 Aug 2005
Posts: 3946
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| Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 8:59 am Post subject: |
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| THE_SHOES wrote: | | KA_2 wrote: | | THE_SHOES wrote: | | KA_2 wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | The fact that Lebron's people made contact with Buss this offseason is important to consider. |
Do we know what they talked about? Otherwise it doesn't mean a damn thing.
| Quote: | | As for trading Odom, if you want to bring in a second option, it is likely that he will be highly paid. If so, Odom's salary would probably be required to bring him in. |
Artest was an available 2nd option better than Odom that wasn't highly paid. Yeah, whoops, Lakers dropped the ball with that one. |
Nothing more than one confused individuals opinion... |
Says the guy that used to jock Fisher like his **** didn't stank. |
That means nothing to anybody but you and, I'll bet you don't have a clue as to why. I don't jock players I defend them against haters. You take a stance against Lakers I defend them when I think you haters have lost hyour minds! You do it pretty often to so, when you call me a "Fish jocker" don't leave out, LO, Horry,Sasha and Devean either cause I defended them as well against you "so called fans" That's what us homers do against you fake ass fans...
You may as well get it through that small mind of yours hater,I'm proud as many are of Fisher and,when you call me that use Caps! Only an idiot would'nt be proud of what Fish did for this franchise! Dude was greatly responsible or, played a huge part in the greatest playoff run in history. Anybody that can't appreciate that is no Laker fan. I can always smell a fake fan and, you wreak of complete phony... |
Nah Claiming "consistency is overated" is giving excuses=jocking When YOU root for the name on the back of the jersey, cause ultimately thats what YOU do when YOU give players EXCUSES. Its the Los Angeles Lakers, Not the LAMAR ODOMS
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RG73
Franchise Player
Joined: 14 Jul 2001
Posts: 11508
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| Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 9:34 am Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | KA_2 wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | The fact that Lebron's people made contact with Buss this offseason is important to consider. |
Do we know what they talked about? Otherwise it doesn't mean a damn thing. |
We know they talked about how Lebron wants to be a Laker. |
Last I checked that would be tampering. Lebron is under contract and his agents/representatives cannot talk to another team's owner about playing for them.
If you know this, Stern knows this. And Stern would penalize the Lakers for it--just like he did for the Bosh comment. And every other GM knows it if you know it. And Cleveland would be making quite the stink about it. How you're in the loop, but the rest of the leauge isn't is quite beyond me. Unless you actually work in the Lakers front office--in which case you ought to be pacifing us with "don't worry, I guarantee Lebron is signing here".
| venturalakersfan wrote: | | As for trading Odom, if you want to bring in a second option, it is likely that he will be highly paid. If so, Odom's salary would probably be required to bring him in. |
| Quote: | | Artest was an available 2nd option better than Odom that wasn't highly paid. Yeah, whoops, Lakers dropped the ball with that one. |
It should be Yay, not woops.[/quote]
Yeah, we should all celebrate everytime the team passes up an opportunity to add an DPOY and second scoring option. That is really reason to cheer. I don't know, I kind of thought the purpose of the game was to win. |
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mitch&kwame
Starting Rotation
Joined: 14 Nov 2005
Posts: 316
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| Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 9:41 am Post subject: |
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| INCONSISTENT |
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RG73
Franchise Player
Joined: 14 Jul 2001
Posts: 11508
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| Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 9:46 am Post subject: |
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| THE_SHOES wrote: | | That means nothing to anybody but you and, I'll bet you don't have a clue as to why. I don't jock players I defend them against haters. You take a stance against Lakers I defend them when I think you haters have lost hyour minds! |
That is pretty funny since Bounty is clearly a Lakers fan. And by that I mean he cares about the team. The players are secondary. You jock players, he jocks team.
| Quote: | | You do it pretty often to so, when you call me a "Fish jocker" don't leave out, LO, Horry,Sasha and Devean either cause I defended them as well against you "so called fans" That's what us homers do against you fake ass fans... |
I cannot, for the life of me, understand why you'd defend Fisher, LO, Sasha and George of all players.
Again, you're a player jocker. Team comes first. Players who don't get it done shouldn't be wearing the uniform. That simple.
| Quote: | | You may as well get it through that small mind of yours hater,I'm proud as many are of Fisher |
Hey, Fish hit a lot of big shots. So he's a lot further down on my most disliked Lakers list. Of course, if Fish could play defense or make a layup then we might not have needed him to hit those big shots. When you're last quarter heroics can make up for 3 quarters of going under screens and missing layups, its almost a wash.
| Quote: | | Only an idiot would'nt be proud of what Fish did for this franchise! |
Hmmm, now we're getting personal. Name calling? Really. Fish hit big shots. That's a fact. Fish gave up a lot of points with his poor defense. That's a fact. Fish made layups about as well as Kwame. That's a fact. Fish had one amazing playoff run where he shot the lights out. Fact. He still couldn't defend. Fact. Reality isn't black and white. There's good with the bad. That's how it was with Fish.
| Quote: | | Dude was greatly responsible or, played a huge part in the greatest playoff run in history. |
No, he was not "greatly responsible for"--that honor belongs to Kobe and Shaq. He hit a lot of open shots at a high percentage. He couldn't get those open shots if he didn't play with Shaq and Kobe. Fish was a guy in the right place at the the right time. We'd probably have done just as well that year with Chuckador as with Fish. Any small guard who doesn't defend and can make open shots would have sufficed.
| Quote: | | Anybody that can't appreciate that is no Laker fan. |
Self-appointed though you may be, you do not decide who is a fan and who isn't. You're just a guy with an opinion. As we all are. If we're here arguing Lakers, chances are good we're all fans.
| Quote: | | I can always smell a fake fan and, you wreak of complete phony... |
What, did Bounty not bathe this week or something? Lakers fans are generally well groomed. This isn't Detroit.
But seriously, how is wanting better players for your team the sign of someone who doesn't support that team? Again, the point is to win games, not jock players. Because some people want the wins, they don't support the players who rack up the "L's". Seems straightforward to me. |
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THE_SHOES
Retired Number
Joined: 12 Apr 2001
Posts: 29556
Location: Taiwan
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| Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 10:39 am Post subject: |
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| RG73 wrote: | | THE_SHOES wrote: | | That means nothing to anybody but you and, I'll bet you don't have a clue as to why. I don't jock players I defend them against haters. You take a stance against Lakers I defend them when I think you haters have lost hyour minds! |
That is pretty funny since Bounty is clearly a Lakers fan. And by that I mean he cares about the team. The players are secondary. You jock players, he jocks team.
| Quote: | | You do it pretty often to so, when you call me a "Fish jocker" don't leave out, LO, Horry,Sasha and Devean either cause I defended them as well against you "so called fans" That's what us homers do against you fake ass fans... |
I cannot, for the life of me, understand why you'd defend Fisher, LO, Sasha and George of all players.
Again, you're a player jocker. Team comes first. Players who don't get it done shouldn't be wearing the uniform. That simple.
| Quote: | | You may as well get it through that small mind of yours hater,I'm proud as many are of Fisher |
Hey, Fish hit a lot of big shots. So he's a lot further down on my most disliked Lakers list. Of course, if Fish could play defense or make a layup then we might not have needed him to hit those big shots. When you're last quarter heroics can make up for 3 quarters of going under screens and missing layups, its almost a wash.
| Quote: | | Only an idiot would'nt be proud of what Fish did for this franchise! |
Hmmm, now we're getting personal. Name calling? Really. Fish hit big shots. That's a fact. Fish gave up a lot of points with his poor defense. That's a fact. Fish made layups about as well as Kwame. That's a fact. Fish had one amazing playoff run where he shot the lights out. Fact. He still couldn't defend. Fact. Reality isn't black and white. There's good with the bad. That's how it was with Fish.
| Quote: | | Dude was greatly responsible or, played a huge part in the greatest playoff run in history. |
No, he was not "greatly responsible for"--that honor belongs to Kobe and Shaq. He hit a lot of open shots at a high percentage. He couldn't get those open shots if he didn't play with Shaq and Kobe. Fish was a guy in the right place at the the right time. We'd probably have done just as well that year with Chuckador as with Fish. Any small guard who doesn't defend and can make open shots would have sufficed.
| Quote: | | Anybody that can't appreciate that is no Laker fan. |
Self-appointed though you may be, you do not decide who is a fan and who isn't. You're just a guy with an opinion. As we all are. If we're here arguing Lakers, chances are good we're all fans.
| Quote: | | I can always smell a fake fan and, you wreak of complete phony... |
What, did Bounty not bathe this week or something? Lakers fans are generally well groomed. This isn't Detroit.
But seriously, how is wanting better players for your team the sign of someone who doesn't support that team? Again, the point is to win games, not jock players. Because some people want the wins, they don't support the players who rack up the "L's". Seems straightforward to me. |
OH Geeezzzuuusss and, I guess because you added your word makes it all the gospel?
What, your bounty's character witness now? Figures... I can't imagine you two not agreeing with each other.
Gimme a break RG, your rhetoric is not a damn thing more than one mans evaluations and opinions. Before Fisher left LA he was outside of Bryant the best backcourt defender we had. Why? Because he was injury free. You people with your selective memories are (bleep) irrittating. It was Fish that was brought in to sit Payton in every series before his injury and the Lakers subsequently lost to Detroit because Malone and Fisher were injured. So sell that hate somewhere else. You should know better than to try and bull (bleep) me by now...
Here, let me do you now.
| Quote: | That's a fact. Fish had one amazing playoff run where he shot the lights out. Fact. He still couldn't defend. Fact. Reality isn't black and white. There's good with the bad. That's how it was with Fish.
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And any and, everybody else in the league for that matter so what is this suppose to add up to RG? Honestly get over yourself will you?
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"According to ESPN.com's conference projections, the Lakers will finish 12th in the West, which prompted Bryant to tweet earlier this offseason, "12th I see.." |
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KA_2
Star Player
Joined: 08 Jan 2005
Posts: 1883
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| Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 3:53 pm Post subject: |
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| THE_SHOES wrote: | | That means nothing to anybody but you and, I'll bet you don't have a clue as to why. I don't jock players I defend them against haters. You take a stance against Lakers I defend them when I think you haters have lost hyour minds! You do it pretty often to so, when you call me a "Fish jocker" don't leave out, LO, Horry,Sasha and Devean either cause I defended them as well against you "so called fans" That's what us homers do against you fake ass fans... |
Nah, thing is dude, we're actually bigger and better fans than you. The worst type of fan is the one that can't think for himself (i.e. you). And it's sad.
| Quote: | | You may as well get it through that small mind of yours hater,I'm proud as many are of Fisher and,when you call me that use Caps! Only an idiot would'nt be proud of what Fish did for this franchise! Dude was greatly responsible or, played a huge part in the greatest playoff run in history. Anybody that can't appreciate that is no Laker fan. I can always smell a fake fan and, you wreak of complete phony... |
The only phonies here are fans that would defend Derek Fisher. I'm truly amazed you think being a blind devout homer who can't distinguish between a basketball and a hole in the ground is trying to tell real Laker fans that have been watching them since Showtime that they're "phony" fans. Get a clue kid, you're a joke.
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shnjb
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Joined: 08 Oct 2002
Posts: 13320
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| Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 4:15 pm Post subject: |
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Isn't it just comical when homer fans think that their way is the only way to be fans?
Being a fan of a sports team isn't some honor one should be proud of. Even if you (SHOES, et al) were the only true fan, that just means you're at the head of a very irrational bunch that is the phenomenon of sports fanatics.
I mean it's one thing if you even lived in the US but... |
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GameCock-MD
Star Player
Joined: 14 Dec 2004
Posts: 4498
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| Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 6:12 pm Post subject: |
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What happened to my thread???
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GameCock-MD
Star Player
Joined: 14 Dec 2004
Posts: 4498
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| Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 6:17 pm Post subject: |
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The biggest problem is some people here have access to secret info that they don't and won't share with the public...
Nothing wrong with that if it protects the team and it's future but let's get real.
People who use this knowledge as support for their arguments or AGENDA confuse the whole with opinionated statements that have no root in reality except the info normal people are not privy to.
You want to squelsh the problems and disputes? Tell those few to stop pushing the agenda off on others...
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