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LA_Lakers_Rule
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Joined: 23 Aug 2004
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 Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 12:28 pm Post subject: Questions for those who contend Odom is a ROLE PLAYER |
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Considering there are so many that "label" Odom as a "role player" on this forum I just had to post this topic to find out why this opinion is so prevelant.
Take a look at the efficiency rating of the players listed below.
WOULD YOU ALL AGREE THAT AT LEAST THE TOP 11 PLAYERS ON THIS LIST ARE ALL ALL-STAR CALIBER PLAYERS ?
I think the answer is clearly a resounding "YES"!!!
WOULD YOU ALL AGREE THAT MANY OF THE REMAINING PLAYERS THAT ARE ON THIS LIST ARE (as the very least) VERY CLOSE TO THAT OF ALL-STAR CALIBER PLAYERS ?
Again, I think the answer is clearly "YES"!!!
Would any of you who place Odom in the position as that of a "role player" consider any of the other players on this list as "role players" ?
The fact is that Odom is one of the leagues leaders at his position at both rebounding and more particularily assists. Odom is certainly not a big scorer and is often inconsistant at this one particular stat, but otherwise remains generally very consistent in all other aspects of his game.
To state that Odom is a "role player" simply does not resonate with common sense, imo.
Considering Odom's clearly very high effeciency rating in the league at his position.
For those who contend that Odom is a role player"... My question is simple...
On what basis do you reach this conclusion? 
The TOP 30 NBA Players in EFFICIENCY at the FORWARD POSITION that are within 2 inches of Odom's height:
| Quote: |
01. Garnett
PPG 22.0 RPG 11.30 APG 4.5 EFF + 29.71
02. Brand
PPG 25.0 RPG 10.40 APG 2.8 EFF + 29.45
03. James
PPG 31.0 RPG 6.90 APG 6.4 EFF + 29.38
04. Nowitzki
PPG 25.6 RPG 8.50 APG 2.5 EFF + 25.76
05. Bosh
PPG 22.7 RPG 9.10 APG 2.4 EFF + 24.53
06. Duncan
PPG 19.9 RPG 11.60 APG 2.9 EFF + 24.43
07. McGrady
PPG 27.0 RPG 7.20 APG 4.9 EFF + 23.18
08. Gasol
PPG 19.8 RPG 9.20 APG 4.3 EFF + 22.87
09. J Oneal
PPG 20.9 RPG 9.80 APG 2.3 EFF + 22.06
10. Howard
PPG 15.2 RPG 12.70 APG 1.4 EFF + 21.48
11. Kirilenko
PPG 15.8 RPG 8.40 APG 4.4 EFF + 21.30
12. Lewis
PPG 21.9 RPG 5.70 APG 2.4 EFF + 21.28
13. Weber
PPG 19.5 RPG 9.80 APG 3.2 EFF + 20.45
14. Odom
PPG 14.0 RPG 9.40 APG 5.3 EFF + 20.29
15. Anthony
PPG 25.4 RPG 5.30 APG 2.5 EFF + 19.87
16. Jamison
PPG 19.1 RPG 9.90 APG 2.0 EFF + 19.57
17. West
PPG 17.0 RPG 8.00 APG 1.2 EFF + 19.09
18. R. Wallace
PPG 15.2 RPG 6.60 APG 2.6 EFF + 18.11
19. Harrington
PPG 18.9 RPG 7.10 APG 3.0 EFF + 17.84
20. Randolph
PPG 18.2 RPG 8.70 APG 2.0 EFF + 16.66
21. Okafor
PPG 13.2 RPG 10.00 APG 1.2 EFF + 16.42
22. Gooden
PPG 10.9 RPG 8.80 APG 0.7 EFF + 16.07
23. Hill
PPG 16.8 RPG 4.50 APG 2.6 EFF + 15.27
24. Martin
PPG 13.4 RPG 6.60 APG 1.4 EFF + 15.16
25. Stojakovic
PPG 16.8 RPG 5.50 APG 2.2 EFF + 15.06
26. Battier
PPG 11.5 RPG 4.90 APG 1.8 EFF + 14.64
27. Deng
PPG 13.3 RPG 6.00 APG 1.7 EFF + 14.43
28. Thomas
PPG 9.0 RPG 7.90 APG 1.2 EFF + 14.24
29. Prince
PPG 14.3 RPG 4.30 APG 2.3 EFF + 13.24
30. Haslem
PPG 8.9 RPG 7.50 APG 1.2 EFF + 13.17
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Good judgment comes from experience and a lot of that comes from bad judgment. - Will Rogers ...  |
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eniq 0x00
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| Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 12:53 pm Post subject: |
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They'll say:
But he just pads his stats the whole game; his stats have no effect because anyone else can get them.
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"In essence, the trade was: Shaq, Rick Fox and Gary Payton for Odom, Kwame, Mihm, Profit, 2nd round picks, a 1st round pick and 30 million in luxury tax saviings." - LakerJam
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LA_Lakers_Rule
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| Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 12:53 pm Post subject: |
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Btw,
If I don't see any posts defending the position that Odom is a "Role Player" (actually I don't expect many responses in the face of facts), I would certainly hope to NOT SEE ANY FURTHER POSTS making the claim that Odom is a "ROLE PLAYER". 
I know of course this is just wishful thinking... :roll:
There will always be those who continue to post this tripe, regardless of the facts.
But just maybe some will actually contemplate reality before posting... 
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Good judgment comes from experience and a lot of that comes from bad judgment. - Will Rogers ... |
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wolfpaclaker
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| Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 12:59 pm Post subject: |
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I think the notion by some is that if you score under 15 points, you are a role player.
While that's true for some players, you can't really say that about Odom.
Odom gives a team role player type points production - that is 14 ppg - but his rebounds, assists and overall game can not put him that category.
But I won't argue that he scores like a role player. That notion is true. Similar to role players he can not be relied upon to put up 15+ points every night. Similar to a role player, he is inconsistent with scoring game. But some will take that notion, dismiss or ignore the rest of his game and just promote him as a role player. That is untrue and unfounded. No role player puts up those overall numbers. No role player runs the point for a team and at the same time leads them in rebounds and 2nd in points.
But you're fighting a useless battle, Rule. I appreciate the effort, but the LO haters will just not accept it. |
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Aeneas Hunter
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| Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 1:09 pm Post subject: |
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1. Thanks for starting another thread about Odom. We really needed it.
2. The Efficiency stat is garbage. This topic has been discussed at length elsewhere.
3. If you're going to use an Efficiency-type stat, the best of the bunch is John Hollinger's PER stat. At present, Odom ranks #14 in PER among small forwards between Caron Butler and Shane Battier. That sounds about right to me. Among all forwards (SFs and PFs), he would rank 37th, just behind Troy Murphy. That also sounds about right to me. |
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Waterboy
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| Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 1:18 pm Post subject: |
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Its not always about stats and efficiency. Its about being an impact-player, the intangibles...the things that can't be measured. When he comes into the game, does he make an impact? (I'm only talking positive impact here). When the chips are down and the Lakers need some points, does he step up? When the Lakers are down and they need a playmaker other than Kobe who is triple-teamed, does he come through? Does he make his presence felt?
The reason why he's probably considered a role player is because he cannot do any of the above on a consistent basis. Role players aren't expected to step up night in and night out. They are expected to come in, do what they are asked of by the coaching staff (which is usually minimal and one of the following: like become a defensive stopper, make some 3's, block some shots, etc.), and every once in a while they will make an impact on the outcome.
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Phil recalling his conversation with Kobe - "I said tongue-in-cheek that when we have a mismatch we want to take advantage of it," Jackson said. "He said, `I have a mismatch every game."' |
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pawn
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| Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 1:23 pm Post subject: |
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So based on this amazing revelation - we start owning the rest of the league when exactly? :roll:
If you want your chart of stats to be accurate - add in a column that shows the salaries for all of those players as well. And put in max numbers for Bosh - seeing as he will be a max player soon as he can sign his next deal. You basically just provided a great list of replacements for Lamar - thanks. I'd take Battier or Haslem on this team (and their corresponding reasonable contracts) in a heartbeat over Mr. Consistent. |
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KBandKB
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| Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 1:27 pm Post subject: |
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| #2 in assists #7 in rebounds. He better than Peja, Carmelo, Prince, Rasheed, he is a talented guy. |
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wolfpaclaker
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| Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 1:32 pm Post subject: |
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If you think Caron Butler or worse Troy Murphy are better than Lamar Odom, something is wrong with you.
If the Lakers felt that way, Caron would still be a Laker and they trade LO for Murphy. |
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LA_Lakers_Rule
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| Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 1:38 pm Post subject: |
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Aeneas Hunter wrote:
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1. Thanks for starting another thread about Odom. We really needed it.
2. The Efficiency stat is garbage. This topic has been discussed at length elsewhere.
3. If you're going to use an Efficiency-type stat, the best of the bunch is John Hollinger's PER stat. At present, Odom ranks #14 in PER among small forwards between Caron Butler and Shane Battier. That sounds about right to me. Among all forwards (SFs and PFs), he would rank 37th, just behind Troy Murphy. That also sounds about right to me.
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However you want to rank Odom as far what type of statistical method or as far as the players included in the rating; the FACT REMAINS that the players you mention in your post (for the most part) or absolutely NOT ROLE PLAYERS!!!
Would those who contend Odom to be a "ROLL PLAYER" also categorize Butler or Battier as "ROLE PLAYERS"?
I don't think so...
This is the crux of my point, which is that whatever method you rank Odom, he is consistenty grouped near players that no fair minded person would consider as "role players" and as such it is unreasonable to conclude Odom to be the exception of that same group of players and label him as such.
It is disingenuous to proclaim Odom a "ROLE PLAYER", when other players who rank either close to him or even below him in whatever statistically category one might choose to take is NOT also considered the equivalent "ROLE PLAYERS' as well, and as far as I'm concerned shows an unfair bias against Odom, imo.
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Good judgment comes from experience and a lot of that comes from bad judgment. - Will Rogers ... |
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kobebynum2008
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Joined: 03 Feb 2006
Posts: 14
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| Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 1:44 pm Post subject: |
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Odom is average. He has decent averages in rebound, pts, assists. A lotta ppl like to think of that as "well rounded" but it's jsut that he cant really excel in one area, so he does a b it of everything and it doesnt really help us much.
I'd rather trade odom for 2 players, a guard that racks up the assists, doesnt really score, but plays good D and has little turnovers and a jumpshooter that shoots a good percentage and does nothing else. |
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Waterboy
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Posts: 166
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| Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 1:49 pm Post subject: |
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| KBandKB wrote: | | #2 in assists #7 in rebounds. He better than Peja, Carmelo, Prince, Rasheed, he is a talented guy. |
People put too much emphasis on stats.
Peja has had an injury-ridden year.
Melo is young lacks experience and is the only real go-to guy on a team that has had to deal with numerous injuries all year.
Prince and Rasheed are NOT 2nd options on their teams. They are role players and the fact that they rank up so high just shows how well distributed the talent is on the Pistons squad.
Personally, i'd choose Prince and Rasheed (and possibly even Carmelo) over LO . Peja...bleh.
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Phil recalling his conversation with Kobe - "I said tongue-in-cheek that when we have a mismatch we want to take advantage of it," Jackson said. "He said, `I have a mismatch every game."' |
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nash
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Posts: 8194
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| Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 1:50 pm Post subject: |
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Odon is like a Role Star.
Not a go to guy nor a defensive stoper, but he brings a lot. |
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Waterboy
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| Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 1:54 pm Post subject: |
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| nash wrote: | Odon is like a Role Star.
Not a go to guy nor a defensive stoper, but he brings a lot. |
I somewhat agree with this statement. LEt me fix it.
Odom is like a Role Star.
Not a go to guy nor a defensive stoper, but he brings a lot every once in a while.
_________________
Phil recalling his conversation with Kobe - "I said tongue-in-cheek that when we have a mismatch we want to take advantage of it," Jackson said. "He said, `I have a mismatch every game."' |
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Walter Sobchak
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Location: Hollywood, Ca.
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| Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 2:17 pm Post subject: |
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A "role player" to me is someone who does a lot of things for the team without scoring a whole lot. This is because who wins or loses is decided by points, so you're either a scorer or a role player. If you're not scoring a lot, you may be helping your team immensely in other ways, and that's by satisfying the "roles" of either set-up man, blue-collar rebounder, good defender, etc... If you do all that and score a lot, then you're a scorer or star or whatever. But in my mind, "role players" are just guys who don't score a lot. Good role players are guys who may not score but who are crucial in other ways.
To me, Odom is one of the most physically gifted and talented players in the league, and he is one of the most versatile. However, he does not have a scorer mentality (or a "star" mentality), and has more of a "role player" mentality. That is not a bad thing though, because the Lakers already have a bonafide scorer/star in Kobe, and don't really need another one. Unlike a lot of the people here, I am a fan of Odom's and hope the Lakers keep him because I think he just needs more time to learn to play with Kobe in the Triangle, and that when he gets it (probaby next year) he and Kobe are going to be a great combo. But Odom's not the kind of guy to look to take over a game. Unfortunately, as of yet, he's not shown the mindset to try to take over the game even when he's not scoring a lot, but maybe he'll learn how to do that.
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Just a reminder folks: "a lot" is two words. So is "no one". |
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Freakout
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Joined: 12 Apr 2001
Posts: 11796
Location: WV
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| Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 2:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Walter Sobchak wrote: | A "role player" to me is someone who does a lot of things for the team without scoring a whole lot. This is because who wins or loses is decided by points, so you're either a scorer or a role player. If you're not scoring a lot, you may be helping your team immensely in other ways, and that's by satisfying the "roles" of either set-up man, blue-collar rebounder, good defender, etc... If you do all that and score a lot, then you're a scorer or star or whatever. But in my mind, "role players" are just guys who don't score a lot. Good role players are guys who may not score but who are crucial in other ways.
To me, Odom is one of the most physically gifted and talented players in the league, and he is one of the most versatile. However, he does not have a scorer mentality (or a "star" mentality), and has more of a "role player" mentality. That is not a bad thing though, because the Lakers already have a bonafide scorer/star in Kobe, and don't really need another one. Unlike a lot of the people here, I am a fan of Odom's and hope the Lakers keep him because I think he just needs more time to learn to play with Kobe in the Triangle, and that when he gets it (probaby next year) he and Kobe are going to be a great combo. But Odom's not the kind of guy to look to take over a game. Unfortunately, as of yet, he's not shown the mindset to try to take over the game even when he's not scoring a lot, but maybe he'll learn how to do that. |
I agree with everything you said except not needing another bonafide scorer. Thats exactly what we do need. We need another guy that can get us 20 a night in his sleep. |
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Aeneas Hunter
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Posts: 31763
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| Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 3:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Wolfpac -- If you think Caron Butler or worse Troy Murphy are better than Lamar Odom, something is wrong with you. |
Their PERs are higher than Odom. If you think that Odom is better than them, perhaps you're kidding yourself. It's not that Butler and Murphy are great, but rather than Odom is overrated.
Odom is currently #66 in the league in PER. Just about every sophisticated statistical measure shows that Odom isn't as good as a lot of you wish to believe.
| Quote: | | LA Lakers Rule -- However you want to rank Odom as far what type of statistical method or as far as the players included in the rating; the FACT REMAINS that the players you mention in your post (for the most part) or absolutely NOT ROLE PLAYERS!!! |
I've never said he was a role player, though certainly other people have said that. I have said that he's a glorified role player, and I'll stand by that. Caron Butler, Troy Murphy, and Shane Battier are not bona fide stars, and neither is Odom. They're certainly more comparable to Odom than Carmelo Anthony and Chris Webber, who flank him in the Efficiency list. |
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wolfpaclaker
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| Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 3:11 pm Post subject: |
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^
So you'll take the effeciency list that makes Odom worse but ignore the one that has him high?
Yeah, that's fair ....
Listen, it's up to the Lakers. They are the experts and what really matters.
They traded Caron and haven't as of yet offered LO to anyone that we know of.
Phil talks about Odom as a core player that will be there throughout his tenure.
Whatever you guys want to name him - or rate him - it's up to you. Fact is, LO is a Laker because the Lakers want him. If they didn't want or like him - he wouldn't be here. |
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KA_2
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Joined: 08 Jan 2005
Posts: 1883
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| Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 3:32 pm Post subject: |
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| wolfpaclaker wrote: | ^
So you'll take the effeciency list that makes Odom worse but ignore the one that has him high?
Yeah, that's fair .... |
It is fair, because NBA.com's efficiency ratings are garbage. PER is far more indicative of actual offensive impact. And since Odom has no impact defensively, he's even worse than his PER suggests.
| Quote: | | Listen, it's up to the Lakers. They are the experts and what really matters. |
They (Kupchak) haven't exactly been doing anything impressive the last 3 seasons. Fact.
| Quote: | | They traded Caron and haven't as of yet offered LO to anyone that we know of. |
You have no idea if this is true. For the love of god, stop pretending you do, it's sad.
| Quote: | | Phil talks about Odom as a core player that will be there throughout his tenure. |
He has to, or Odom will feel like he's not wanted, just like any player who knows they're not that good enough. And in Odom's case, he's so mentally weak that he'll play even worse than he has this season.
| Quote: | | Whatever you guys want to name him - or rate him - it's up to you. Fact is, LO is a Laker because the Lakers want him. |
Christ. Yeah, I'm sure the Lakers wanted him over Jermaine O'Neal or Dwyane Wade when they were looking to trade Shaq. Get real. It's more likely that it's hard to move him because 1) he's not that good and won't get enough talent back in a trade and 2) he has a horrible contract.
| Quote: | | If they didn't want or like him - he wouldn't be here. |
A common logical fallacy. Sad.
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wolfpaclaker
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| Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 4:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | It is fair, because NBA.com's efficiency ratings are garbage. PER is far more indicative of actual offensive impact. And since Odom has no impact defensively, he's even worse than his PER suggests |
They're garbage according to who?
You - Right?
And do they care what you think?
No.
So according to the OFFICIAL NBA SITE - Odom has a good effeciency rating. Don't like it? Suck it up ....
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They (Kupchak) haven't exactly been doing anything impressive the last 3 seasons. Fact. |
They are also re-building
Though I thought 2 years ago making the NBA finals was a big deal. I mean that's impressive no matter how bad the Finals were for us.
No bad management or FO has it's team in 4 Finals in 5 years.
| Quote: | | You have no idea if this is true. For the love of god, stop pretending you do, it's sad |
.
It's logic (but you don't seem to have that trait)
1- Caron was a SF
2- Odom is to be moved to SF.
3- Caron goes out in a trade for a PF so ...
4- Odom gets moved to PF
Pretty simple. I guess not for you.
They think Caron > Odom - they deal Odom for a Kwame or 2007 expiring K and a young big - sign Caron to a cheaper extension.
| Quote: | | Christ. Yeah, I'm sure the Lakers wanted him over Jermaine O'Neal or Dwyane Wade when they were looking to trade Shaq. Get real. It's more likely that it's hard to move him because 1) he's not that good and won't get enough talent back in a trade and 2) he has a horrible contract |
Whatever.
All Pacer insiders were saying that they wanted LO, Lakers not willing to budge. Last season David Aldridge says Kings wanted LO for Peja and B-Jax.
Whatever, dissmiss and ignore all you want.
It must be hard for you be a fan of the Lakers these days with LO being a core player and all |
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Aeneas Hunter
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Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 31763
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| Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 4:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Wolfpac -- They're garbage according to who?
You - Right?
And do they care what you think?
No.
So according to the OFFICIAL NBA SITE - Odom has a good effeciency rating. Don't like it? Suck it up .... |
I guess this is how you get to 13,934 posts -- by writing belligerent drivel. At least you're not claiming that Kobe threw a TV monitor at Odom this week.
Under the Efficiency formula, a made three point shot counts as much as three assists, and a missed free throw counts the same as a turnover. No one takes that stat seriously. Oh, by the way, the OFFICIAL NBA SITE also has the Nestle's Crunchtime stat. That's another really valid stat.
Anyone who is serious about a statistical analysis of the NBA uses PER, not Efficiency. Maybe by the time you get to 15,000 posts (next week?), you'll figure that one out. |
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wolfpaclaker
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Joined: 29 May 2002
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| Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 5:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | Quote: | Wolfpac -- They're garbage according to who?
You - Right?
And do they care what you think?
No.
So according to the OFFICIAL NBA SITE - Odom has a good effeciency rating. Don't like it? Suck it up .... |
I guess this is how you get to 13,934 posts -- by writing belligerent drivel. At least you're not claiming that Kobe threw a TV monitor at Odom this week.
Under the Efficiency formula, a made three point shot counts as much as three assists, and a missed free throw counts the same as a turnover. No one takes that stat seriously. Oh, by the way, the OFFICIAL NBA SITE also has the Nestle's Crunchtime stat. That's another really valid stat.
Anyone who is serious about a statistical analysis of the NBA uses PER, not Efficiency. Maybe by the time you get to 15,000 posts (next week?), you'll figure that one out. |
What matters is what fits your agenda.
Discarding anything that outs LO in a good limelight fits that agenda.
Keep it up. I know your kind of fan. They don't last long here. |
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KA_2
Star Player
Joined: 08 Jan 2005
Posts: 1883
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| Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 5:19 pm Post subject: |
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| wolfpaclaker wrote: | They're garbage according to who?
You - Right?
And do they care what you think?
No. |
Anyone who has studied PER and the NBA's efficieny ratings realizes PER is far more accurate in terms of offensive impact. The NBA's efficiency rating is a joke, it means nothing.
| Quote: | | So according to the OFFICIAL NBA SITE - Odom has a good effeciency rating. Don't like it? Suck it up .... |
Kid, you don't even know what it measures.
| Quote: | | They are also re-building |
BS excuse from a blind homer. What impressive moves have the Lakers made since Kupchak became GM? Payton/Malone falling into his lap and....what?
| Quote: | | Though I thought 2 years ago making the NBA finals was a big deal. I mean that's impressive no matter how bad the Finals were for us. |
Jerry West built those teams (i.e. signing Phil Jackson, signing Shaq, trading for Kobe). Not Mitch Kupchak. Kid.
| Quote: | | No bad management or FO has it's team in 4 Finals in 5 years. |
Yes, I know, thanks to Jerry West. Next.
| Quote: | It's logic (but you don't seem to have that trait)
1- Caron was a SF
2- Odom is to be moved to SF.
3- Caron goes out in a trade for a PF so ...
4- Odom gets moved to PF
Pretty simple. I guess not for you.
They think Caron > Odom - they deal Odom for a Kwame or 2007 expiring K and a young big - sign Caron to a cheaper extension. |
You have no idea whether the Lakers FO has offered Odom in trade or not. Please stop pretending, it's sad.
Sadly this is the best you've done today.
| Quote: | | All Pacer insiders were saying that they wanted LO, Lakers not willing to budge. |
Pacers insiders? lmao.
| Quote: | | Last season David Aldridge says Kings wanted LO for Peja and B-Jax. |
He has also reported bunk trades before. Whether it's actually true is an entirely different story.
| Quote: | | Whatever, dissmiss and ignore all you want. |
I take it all into consideration. And in the end, none of it has confirmed to be true. You know it, you're just desperate to protect the piece of garbage 2nd option known as Lamar Odom. Almost as pathetic as you claiming the Lakers need a real coach to teach them "team defense" last season and that the Lakers would make the playoffs after Rudy T resigned, the Lakers were killed with injuries, and the schedule was a buzzsaw to end the season. All the facts were staring you right in the face then, and you still lost face. Predictably. You'll lose face again.
| Quote: | | It must be hard for you be a fan of the Lakers these days with LO being a core player and all |
It is hard to be a Laker fan when the Laker FO has been so incompetant. I hope they turn it around. Probably when Odom gets traded.
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bounty
Star Player
Joined: 15 Aug 2005
Posts: 3946
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| Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 6:11 pm Post subject: |
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What i love is that people can only argue LO's value when he isnt playing. Thats great. I am assuming that means when you actually WATCH him play that nothing other than AVG. comes to mind
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LA_Lakers_Rule
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Joined: 23 Aug 2004
Posts: 19482
Location: The X-Files
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| Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 6:43 pm Post subject: |
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KA_2 wrote:
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... the piece of garbage 2nd option known as Lamar Odom...
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This is the type of comment that amazes me...
So a player who as compared to all other FORWARDS in the entire NBA is: 1) 8th in rebounding 2) 2nd in assists per 48 minutes and 2nd in assist to TO ratio to none other than Lebron 3) 12th in Double/Doubles, is "garbage".
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