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fiendishoc
Star Player
Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 8488
Location: The (real) short corner
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 Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2015 7:16 pm Post subject: |
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| nshid wrote: | A lot of Laker Nation fans have been relentlessly attacking every coach we got since the Phil Jackson era. Byron Scott has made so many adjustments this season in an attempt to find viable roles for each player.
I understand when Byron folds his arms in silence and when he says the players need to "MAN UP". You can tell a player how to correct a mistake but you can't teach effort and desire. This is something players either have or will need to discover on their own. |
What 'adjustments' are you talking about? Reversing an earlier mistake that no one else in the league would have ever made (Bass at center)? Putting in Huertas to guard Harden? DNP-ing one of our better bench players for a few games for no particular reason? Benching our two promising rookies without telling them what they need to do better? Not playing a rookie at all, then matching up against Durant, and then accusing him of being scared? |
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A Mad Chinaman
Star Player
Joined: 07 Apr 2005
Posts: 6142
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| Posted: Tue Dec 22, 2015 1:26 am Post subject: |
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| fiendishoc wrote: | | nshid wrote: | A lot of Laker Nation fans have been relentlessly attacking every coach we got since the Phil Jackson era. Byron Scott has made so many adjustments this season in an attempt to find viable roles for each player.
I understand when Byron folds his arms in silence and when he says the players need to "MAN UP". You can tell a player how to correct a mistake but you can't teach effort and desire. This is something players either have or will need to discover on their own. |
What 'adjustments' are you talking about? Reversing an earlier mistake that no one else in the league would have ever made (Bass at center)? Putting in Huertas to guard Harden? DNP-ing one of our better bench players for a few games for no particular reason? Benching our two promising rookies without telling them what they need to do better? Not playing a rookie at all, then matching up against Durant, and then accusing him of being scared? |
Funny Reply
Could knowing that we are in a better situation than the Clippers who have a great deal more talent than the Lakers but seemingly will never get beyond the second round because they have seriously choked and whined to be the latest FAV for a moment. How can the Clippers never outrebounded any team they faced with the DPOY!
Laker fans know this team will not make the playoffs and still have many warts they need to address, Clippers don't have this excuse
http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/14419987/los-angeles-clippers-appear-destined-stuck-middle
Is it too much to ask DLO to be decisive, aggresive and play with consistent energy (he is 19 years old, how can he be tired - if we are giving him the excuse that his age is the reason he doesn't have the necessary basketball IQ/experience)
Many have shared that leadership is earned and not given or entitled.
The optimum effectiveness was seen in the initial few minutes when Nash played with Kobe. The kid has mad skillz while needing more confidence in his abilities (despite his words, recognizing that actions speak louder and more revealing)
The kid does need to play but the need to watch others is important. Repeating the same mistakes over and over again is not conducive to growth - just watch any 76ers game.
If we are going to just let The Kid play without any ramifications for his learning mistakes, one can only fold one's hands because The Zen Master's method of letting them learn on the court does not apply to rookies (as seen by Pop's treatment of Parker)
It seems that The Kid will eventually be at least a good player. Question is will he be like a Jarret Jack-like/Jeremy Lin-like career projectory or a Tony Parker-like growth. |
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Shaber
Star Player
Joined: 12 Mar 2006
Posts: 3732
Location: The other side
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| Posted: Tue Dec 22, 2015 2:40 am Post subject: |
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| A Mad Chinaman wrote: | | fiendishoc wrote: | | nshid wrote: | A lot of Laker Nation fans have been relentlessly attacking every coach we got since the Phil Jackson era. Byron Scott has made so many adjustments this season in an attempt to find viable roles for each player.
I understand when Byron folds his arms in silence and when he says the players need to "MAN UP". You can tell a player how to correct a mistake but you can't teach effort and desire. This is something players either have or will need to discover on their own. |
What 'adjustments' are you talking about? Reversing an earlier mistake that no one else in the league would have ever made (Bass at center)? Putting in Huertas to guard Harden? DNP-ing one of our better bench players for a few games for no particular reason? Benching our two promising rookies without telling them what they need to do better? Not playing a rookie at all, then matching up against Durant, and then accusing him of being scared? |
Funny Reply
Could knowing that we are in a better situation than the Clippers who have a great deal more talent than the Lakers but seemingly will never get beyond the second round because they have seriously choked and whined to be the latest FAV for a moment. How can the Clippers never outrebounded any team they faced with the DPOY!
Laker fans know this team will not make the playoffs and still have many warts they need to address, Clippers don't have this excuse
http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/14419987/los-angeles-clippers-appear-destined-stuck-middle
Is it too much to ask DLO to be decisive, aggresive and play with consistent energy (he is 19 years old, how can he be tired - if we are giving him the excuse that his age is the reason he doesn't have the necessary basketball IQ/experience)
Many have shared that leadership is earned and not given or entitled.
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Clippers have nothing to do with the discussion at hand. Leave them where they are.
The "tired" excuse was made just once. None of the rooks has used it lately. They talk about energy and attitude. But not about being tired. Except for being tired from a road trip and happy to get back home. They are learning the NBA life, including road trips.
DLO is 19 years old. You demand him to be the leader on the court. Are you not asking too much from a player who's career is about 25 games long? What I see is nice development of leadership skills. He is directing the offense and directing the players. Exactly what a PG must do. At the same time he is restricted by the demands of Scott. And that is what he expressed in the quote. We all know that the "system" of Scott is utter nonsense and has most value for the tanking.
The leadership problems of the Lakers are in defensive end. All these "man up" quotes point that Lakers do not have anybody who would DEMAND players to play D. That includes Scott. Kobe and Hibbert could be these guys on the floor. But they are not. Scott is Scott, mostly BS. That leaves only Metta to account for.
You write yourself that DLO needs experience. If he repeats his mistakes it is up to the coach to point them out. Since this goes beyond "man up" treatment, I hardly believe it has taken place. Kobe has watched film with DLO. Haven't heard about a film session of DLO with Scott.
DLO is learning and I note considerable growth of hima as a player.
You can't ask him act like a five year vet out there. Give the kid a break.
_________________
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Lakers depth chart
PG Johnson / Goodrich
SG Bryant / West / Scott
SF Baylor / Worthy / Cooper
PF Mikkelsen / Hairston / McAdoo / Gasol
C Chamberlain / Abdul-Jabbar / O'Neal / Mikan |
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A Mad Chinaman
Star Player
Joined: 07 Apr 2005
Posts: 6142
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| Posted: Tue Dec 22, 2015 4:12 am Post subject: |
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| s_habe wrote: | | A Mad Chinaman wrote: | | fiendishoc wrote: | | nshid wrote: | A lot of Laker Nation fans have been relentlessly attacking every coach we got since the Phil Jackson era. Byron Scott has made so many adjustments this season in an attempt to find viable roles for each player.
I understand when Byron folds his arms in silence and when he says the players need to "MAN UP". You can tell a player how to correct a mistake but you can't teach effort and desire. This is something players either have or will need to discover on their own. |
What 'adjustments' are you talking about? Reversing an earlier mistake that no one else in the league would have ever made (Bass at center)? Putting in Huertas to guard Harden? DNP-ing one of our better bench players for a few games for no particular reason? Benching our two promising rookies without telling them what they need to do better? Not playing a rookie at all, then matching up against Durant, and then accusing him of being scared? |
Funny Reply
Could knowing that we are in a better situation than the Clippers who have a great deal more talent than the Lakers but seemingly will never get beyond the second round because they have seriously choked and whined to be the latest FAV for a moment. How can the Clippers never outrebounded any team they faced with the DPOY!
Laker fans know this team will not make the playoffs and still have many warts they need to address, Clippers don't have this excuse
http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/14419987/los-angeles-clippers-appear-destined-stuck-middle
Is it too much to ask DLO to be decisive, aggresive and play with consistent energy (he is 19 years old, how can he be tired - if we are giving him the excuse that his age is the reason he doesn't have the necessary basketball IQ/experience)
Many have shared that leadership is earned and not given or entitled.
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Clippers have nothing to do with the discussion at hand. Leave them where they are.
The "tired" excuse was made just once. None of the rooks has used it lately. They talk about energy and attitude. But not about being tired. Except for being tired from a road trip and happy to get back home. They are learning the NBA life, including road trips.
DLO is 19 years old. You demand him to be the leader on the court. Are you not asking too much from a player who's career is about 25 games long? What I see is nice development of leadership skills. He is directing the offense and directing the players. Exactly what a PG must do. At the same time he is restricted by the demands of Scott. And that is what he expressed in the quote. We all know that the "system" of Scott is utter nonsense and has most value for the tanking.
The leadership problems of the Lakers are in defensive end. All these "man up" quotes point that Lakers do not have anybody who would DEMAND players to play D. That includes Scott. Kobe and Hibbert could be these guys on the floor. But they are not. Scott is Scott, mostly BS. That leaves only Metta to account for.
You write yourself that DLO needs experience. If he repeats his mistakes it is up to the coach to point them out. Since this goes beyond "man up" treatment, I hardly believe it has taken place. Kobe has watched film with DLO. Haven't heard about a film session of DLO with Scott.
DLO is learning and I note considerable growth of hima as a player.
You can't ask him act like a five year vet out there. Give the kid a break. |
Just a reminder that at the beginning of my post, I started with the words "Funny Reply" - highlighting that the Clippers (among other teams) are falling very short of their expectations
Often the amount of PT is the most effective way of getting the attention of players - a strategy Byron has used (wrong or right)
Many of the media basketball pundits acknowledge that more was expected of this talented PG
NBA is filled with many young players who has shown leadership skills upon entering the league (not a player that has been playing for five years). Making the right decisions is a skill that is learn with experience and time that is separate from leadership skills. As Serena noted on KSPN Radio, Randle and DLO were demoted (not benched) to the second team to develop their chemistry and to address the very bad start of games. Byron shared that there will be changes and the bad starts were an obvious factor
Defense starts with the guards limiting penetration and funneling their opponents to specific areas of the court. Lakers need dramatic improvement in the initial penetration, to play D the entire shot clock and get rebounds/block out.
Assuming that Byron has not personally participated in film sessions with DLO is interesting. Initiating the offense and analyzing the initial point of attack on the defense is always discussed.
As shared, DLO will be a good player. The question (as shared previously) is how good will he be. I hope that the signs of great passing and a good outside shot will become more consistent over time. His aggression, energy, edge and leadership skills is something the DLO controls right now
Is Byron a great coach - no
Has he developed young PGs and do they still appreciate Byron's tuteledge - yes
Has Byron won a ring, but he did make it to Thr Finals
People like Fiendishoc has pointed out this team's many flaws and something that Byron is responsible for - being the HC - whose words I generally agree
DLO, along with everybody else on the squad, is being paid a NBA salary given to players of all ages. Hope that DLO, Randle, Nance and (hopefully) Upshaw will be the cornerstone of the Lakers' future |
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Shaber
Star Player
Joined: 12 Mar 2006
Posts: 3732
Location: The other side
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| Posted: Tue Dec 22, 2015 8:38 am Post subject: |
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Chinaman, I still don't get why do you single out DLO?
If anything, the whole team has been up and down together. Maybe Lou has been steady, Kobe has been steadily bad and the rooks have steadily improved. Scott has been steadily incomprehensible.
Very difficult to blame DLO for the Lakers problems. Very easy to see the flaws in what Scott is doing. (Mind you, I have no problem with DLO coming off the bench.)
And what is the message Black, Kelly, Brown should be taking. Or Bass. To man up? Bass has been the man he can be playing against the C-s. What has he done wrong and what message he has not understood to merit the benching?
_________________
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Lakers depth chart
PG Johnson / Goodrich
SG Bryant / West / Scott
SF Baylor / Worthy / Cooper
PF Mikkelsen / Hairston / McAdoo / Gasol
C Chamberlain / Abdul-Jabbar / O'Neal / Mikan |
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cycl0nus
Star Player
Joined: 17 Dec 2004
Posts: 1478
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| Posted: Tue Dec 22, 2015 9:15 pm Post subject: |
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| wolfpaclaker wrote: | | The system is NOT a system. Watched the Lakers run their "system" then I watched a little bit of what people think is a similar to Lakers like system in NY. We don't run anything close to a real system. It's a mixeroo of different things and you hear names like Triangle and Princeton, but I swear to god if Tex or Pete Carrill saw this they'd go "Don't you dare call it THAT". |
 mixeroo!!!!! |
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