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Basketball Fan Franchise Player
Joined: 03 Feb 2004 Posts: 24741
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Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2015 4:56 pm Post subject: Allen Iverson, Shaquille O'Neal among first year nominees for Basketball HOF |
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It seemed like yesterday I was watching them play
http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/14414024/allen-iverson-tom-izzo-yao-ming-shaquille-oneal-sheryl-swoopes-first-year-basketball-hall-fame-nominees
Quote: | Allen Iverson, Shaquille O'Neal among first-year nominees for Baskeball Hall
Allen Iverson, Yao Ming, Shaquille O'Neal, Tom Izzo and Sheryl Swoopes are some of the top candidates for induction into the Naismith Memorial Basketball Hall of Fame as the Hall begins its switch to a four-year waiting period for candidacy.
This is one of the new rules for the Springfield, Massachusetts, shrine. The previous requirement was that a player be retired for five full seasons. Because of the enshrinement calendar, that meant players would be out of the game for six years before they could be inducted.
"We wanted to get more in line with some of the other Halls, and it just seemed like too long of a wait for some of the individuals," Hall chairman Jerry Colangelo said on SportsCenter.
Iverson, the NBA MVP in 2001 and an 11-time All-Star, O'Neal, a four-time NBA champion and one of the game's most dominant centers, and Yao, the No. 1 pick of the 2002 draft whose success was a catalyst for basketball's growth in China, all retired after the 2010-11 season.
New rules for the Basketball Hall of Fame mean Shaquille O'Neal and Yao Ming could be inducted as part of the 2016 class. Lintao Zhang/Getty Images
Izzo will be considered for his success at Michigan State. The Spartans have gone to seven Final Fours and won a national championship in 2000 under Izzo.
Swoopes was one of the pioneering stars of the WNBA. She won three MVP awards and four consecutive championships with the Houston Comets to go with her national title at Texas Tech and three Olympic gold medals. The women's screening committee will be allowed to name four finalists instead of two starting this year.
Other top nominees are referee Hugh Evans and Oak Hill Academy coach Steve Smith. Coaches and referees can be considered for induction four years after retiring or after they accumulate 25 years of coaching at the high school, collegiate or professional level.
In another change, the Hall has shut down its ABA committee. Colangelo has said the group has served its purpose.
Hall of Fame finalists will be announced during NBA All-Star Weekend in February, and inductees will be unveiled April 4 in Houston on the day of the NCAA men's championship game. The induction ceremony for 2016 honorees will be held in September. |
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assassin08 Starting Rotation
Joined: 24 Jun 2005 Posts: 559
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Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2015 5:52 pm Post subject: |
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All of them should be first-ballots, very well-deserved. |
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I Bleed P&G Starting Rotation
Joined: 01 Dec 2015 Posts: 820
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Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2015 7:31 pm Post subject: |
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assassin08 wrote: | All of them should be first-ballots, very well-deserved. |
Yeah that is crazy they retired the same year. Totally all should be in. |
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numero-ocho Franchise Player
Joined: 27 Jul 2004 Posts: 18190 Location: Los Angeles, CA
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Posted: Wed Dec 23, 2015 9:32 am Post subject: |
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I'm kind of surprised. I thought Swoopes was already in the HoF. I guess she hadn't been retired as long as I thought.
I expect Shaq's acceptance speech to be funny and the others classy, but I'm really interested to hear what AI will have to say. _________________ "Suck it up. Don't be a baby. Do your job." - Kobe Bryant |
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CBaller8 Franchise Player
Joined: 17 Feb 2002 Posts: 14876 Location: Reseda, CA
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Posted: Wed Dec 23, 2015 10:51 am Post subject: |
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Regarding just on court production/accomplishments, why does Yao get in? |
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ocho Retired Number
Joined: 24 May 2005 Posts: 53713
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Posted: Wed Dec 23, 2015 12:42 pm Post subject: |
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I realize Iverson has to be in the HOF, but can they put his plaque in the basement? Perhaps a broom closet? |
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activeverb Retired Number
Joined: 17 Jun 2006 Posts: 37470
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Posted: Wed Dec 23, 2015 2:46 pm Post subject: |
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CBaller8 wrote: | Regarding just on court production/accomplishments, why does Yao get in? |
Yao was nominated by the International Committee, so he was inducted largely for his play with the China Basketball Association (where he won a championship) and his performance on the Chinese national team. |
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Aeneas Hunter Retired Number
Joined: 12 Jul 2005 Posts: 31763
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Posted: Wed Dec 23, 2015 3:13 pm Post subject: |
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I wonder whether Iverson will practice his speech. |
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SuperboyReformed Star Player
Joined: 07 Oct 2012 Posts: 4083
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Posted: Wed Dec 23, 2015 3:51 pm Post subject: |
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I Bleed P&G wrote: | assassin08 wrote: | All of them should be first-ballots, very well-deserved. |
Yeah that is crazy they retired the same year. Totally all should be in. |
exactly. both are shoo-ins. |
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non-player zealot Franchise Player
Joined: 05 Nov 2007 Posts: 21365
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Posted: Wed Dec 23, 2015 5:07 pm Post subject: |
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Aeneas Hunter wrote: | I wonder whether Iverson will practice his speech. |
Wonder who he'll want up there to usher him in. Will he pull the unexpected Stockton card like Payton did? I remember Iverson running up to Stock after their last matchup and giving him props. Otherwise, I don't know who if anyone, or even if Johnny was a role model to him. I could see Iverson also respecting his opposite stoicism if GP did. I don't recall him expounding on past players all that much. _________________ GOAT MAGIC REEL
SEDALE TRIBUTE
EDDIE DONX! |
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ocho Retired Number
Joined: 24 May 2005 Posts: 53713
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Posted: Wed Dec 23, 2015 5:15 pm Post subject: |
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non-player zealot wrote: | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | I wonder whether Iverson will practice his speech. |
Wonder who he'll want up there to usher him in. Will he pull the unexpected Stockton card like Payton did? I remember Iverson running up to Stock after their last matchup and giving him props. Otherwise, I don't know who if anyone, or even if Johnny was a role model to him. I could see Iverson also respecting his opposite stoicism if GP did. I don't recall him expounding on past players all that much. |
Id bet on Larry Brown. |
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BigBoi Star Player
Joined: 13 May 2012 Posts: 3115
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Posted: Wed Dec 23, 2015 5:21 pm Post subject: |
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I find it funny that Yao and Shaq retired the same year. Because I remember vividly their first matchup in Yao's rookie season when Shaq was already a HOFer type player and voted into the top 50 while Yao was just coming in as a rookie getting dunked on by Shaq and looking lost like a deer in the headlights _________________ #mamba4ever! |
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Basketball Fan Franchise Player
Joined: 03 Feb 2004 Posts: 24741
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Posted: Wed Dec 23, 2015 5:23 pm Post subject: |
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ocho wrote: | non-player zealot wrote: | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | I wonder whether Iverson will practice his speech. |
Wonder who he'll want up there to usher him in. Will he pull the unexpected Stockton card like Payton did? I remember Iverson running up to Stock after their last matchup and giving him props. Otherwise, I don't know who if anyone, or even if Johnny was a role model to him. I could see Iverson also respecting his opposite stoicism if GP did. I don't recall him expounding on past players all that much. |
Id bet on Larry Brown. |
Yep him or GP(the supposed inspiration for the Practice rant) |
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non-player zealot Franchise Player
Joined: 05 Nov 2007 Posts: 21365
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Posted: Wed Dec 23, 2015 6:58 pm Post subject: |
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ocho wrote: | non-player zealot wrote: | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | I wonder whether Iverson will practice his speech. |
Wonder who he'll want up there to usher him in. Will he pull the unexpected Stockton card like Payton did? I remember Iverson running up to Stock after their last matchup and giving him props. Otherwise, I don't know who if anyone, or even if Johnny was a role model to him. I could see Iverson also respecting his opposite stoicism if GP did. I don't recall him expounding on past players all that much. |
Id bet on Larry Brown. |
Ah, the right way... What would be amusing is that Larry Brown was an inch from having AI's arse traded to Detroit, the trade kicker that Matt Geiger wouldn't waive preventing it. I never understood the weight that his admirers gave to his persona (a crafted one, too, though billed as his nature) over his actual play. I couldn't reconcile his inefficiency and selfishness and tude with the level of credit he got. Imo, it's because the "woe is me"/"misunderstood" angles were played to perfection by people like Pat Croce until people began to believe that maybe THEY were the ones who were wrong about his faults. I think the voters overcompensated by awarding him that MVP. Shaq or Duncan, period. Believing Iverson wasn't more valuable than either of those two doesn't even have to be based on the things I listed above. He didn't stack up to either. Proof was in the pudding. He was never a player that was going to lead a team to a championship or even sustained regular season success a la Stock/Malone. Maybe if he was out West, it would've been easier to swallow, but it's always been a hobby horse of mine to question why him. Iverson wasn't even Isiah Thomas. Isiah had his putrid personal moments as well, but his drive to win was far greater than whatever he wanted to achieve as an individual. I think AI was a 1-trick pony. He knew only that way to play and couldn't change and it took him to become a has-been before he realized the mistakes he made in his prime. That's the one thing that I actually did appreciate about him, at least he did have that epiphany. _________________ GOAT MAGIC REEL
SEDALE TRIBUTE
EDDIE DONX!
Last edited by non-player zealot on Wed Dec 23, 2015 7:02 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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wolfpaclaker Retired Number
Joined: 29 May 2002 Posts: 58318
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Posted: Wed Dec 23, 2015 7:01 pm Post subject: |
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Automatic and both deserving, easily.
Iverson wasn't a team player, but neither was Kobe. The difference was one was coached by Phil Jackson and taught how to play team or winning ball at a young age, and the other was always told "How great he was". No one truly had the nerve to ever change Iverson and deal with the pains of that. I think Larry Brown tried to an extent.
I'm not comparing them as players in overall impact, Kobe's miles ahead. But had Iverson been coached by Phil or Pop, coming into the league, he'd have some major growing pains and a lot of chaos (which he had anyway) but I think he'd have been better at understanding how to get his 25-30 points within more team concepts.
HELL of a talent and mismatch. Definite HOF'er, even though I'm not a fan of his style of play. 2001 NBA Finals were awesome. How can anyone forget the shot over Lue and walking over him. |
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non-player zealot Franchise Player
Joined: 05 Nov 2007 Posts: 21365
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Posted: Wed Dec 23, 2015 7:05 pm Post subject: |
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wolfpaclaker wrote: |
Iverson wasn't a team player, but neither was Kobe. The difference was one was coached by Phil Jackson and taught how to play team or winning ball at a young age, and the other was always told "How great he was". |
I'll buy that too. _________________ GOAT MAGIC REEL
SEDALE TRIBUTE
EDDIE DONX! |
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jonnybravo Retired Number
Joined: 21 Sep 2007 Posts: 30619
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Posted: Wed Dec 23, 2015 7:29 pm Post subject: |
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BigBoi wrote: | I find it funny that Yao and Shaq retired the same year. Because I remember vividly their first matchup in Yao's rookie season when Shaq was already a HOFer type player and voted into the top 50 while Yao was just coming in as a rookie getting dunked on by Shaq and looking lost like a deer in the headlights |
Yao had a bad shooting game in his first meeting with Shaq although he put 20/6 in the first game against us when Shaq was injured. He did drop 24/14/3 on Shaq in his 2nd meeting.
Yao never really struggled against bruising guys. He regularly ate up Dwight when they matched up. |
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ocho Retired Number
Joined: 24 May 2005 Posts: 53713
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Posted: Wed Dec 23, 2015 10:28 pm Post subject: |
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wolfpaclaker wrote: | Automatic and both deserving, easily.
Iverson wasn't a team player, but neither was Kobe. The difference was one was coached by Phil Jackson and taught how to play team or winning ball at a young age, and the other was always told "How great he was". No one truly had the nerve to ever change Iverson and deal with the pains of that. I think Larry Brown tried to an extent. |
Both guys are scorers, but I can't see the argument that Kobe, the main playmaker on 5 title teams, was a selfish player. And in terms of work ethic, they're polar opposites. Iverson could have used a better coach, though it's not like Larry Brown at that time was anything to sneeze at. I see two guys who liked to shoot, but one guy worked his ass off to improve and constantly evolve his game while the other guy laughed at the notion of doing so. |
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doughboy90650 Franchise Player
Joined: 20 Apr 2006 Posts: 15294 Location: Southern California
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Posted: Fri Dec 25, 2015 1:14 am Post subject: |
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Damn. Time flies. |
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LakerLanny Retired Number
Joined: 24 Oct 2001 Posts: 47565
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Posted: Fri Dec 25, 2015 6:36 pm Post subject: |
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Shaq was such a beast in his prime, truly a fearsome physical force. God, I will never forget when the Lakers poached him from Orlando...what a day that was. _________________ Love, Laker Lanny |
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22 Franchise Player
Joined: 05 Apr 2013 Posts: 17063
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Posted: Mon Dec 28, 2015 10:05 pm Post subject: |
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Imagine a rookie Shaq in today's league |
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CBaller8 Franchise Player
Joined: 17 Feb 2002 Posts: 14876 Location: Reseda, CA
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Posted: Tue Dec 29, 2015 12:10 am Post subject: |
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22 wrote: | Imagine a rookie Shaq in today's league |
He'd bully every player in the league. |
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70sdude Star Player
Joined: 05 Feb 2009 Posts: 4567
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Posted: Tue Dec 29, 2015 2:57 pm Post subject: |
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Well, there's a Shaq-like fellow in Miami again, and he's not having quite the impact one might imagine coming from a young Shaquille O'Neal.
Maybe the game's moved a click or two away rule-wise in the twenty-two years since Shaq arrived, at least in terms of again permitting a physical interior player to dominate action to the extent he once could. |
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venturalakersfan Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144432 Location: The Gold Coast
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Posted: Tue Dec 29, 2015 3:34 pm Post subject: |
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non-player zealot wrote: | wolfpaclaker wrote: |
Iverson wasn't a team player, but neither was Kobe. The difference was one was coached by Phil Jackson and taught how to play team or winning ball at a young age, and the other was always told "How great he was". |
I'll buy that too. |
Plus one seemed to have it pretty much together and one often played drunk. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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venturalakersfan Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144432 Location: The Gold Coast
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Posted: Tue Dec 29, 2015 3:35 pm Post subject: |
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LakerLanny wrote: | Shaq was such a beast in his prime, truly a fearsome physical force. God, I will never forget when the Lakers poached him from Orlando...what a day that was. |
I remember when the 1995-1996 season ended and the LA Times ran a picture of Shaq with a Laker jersey photo shopped onto him. I think I still have that somewhere. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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