Allen Iverson, Shaquille O'Neal among first year nominees for Basketball HOF
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ODotSoHot
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 30, 2015 7:10 am    Post subject:

70sdude wrote:
Well, there's a Shaq-like fellow in Miami again, and he's not having quite the impact one might imagine coming from a young Shaquille O'Neal.

Maybe the game's moved a click or two away rule-wise in the twenty-two years since Shaq arrived, at least in terms of again permitting a physical interior player to dominate action to the extent he once could.


I like Whiteside as much as the next guy, but that kid is nowhere near the class of player that Shaq was at that age.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2016 4:56 pm    Post subject:

http://nba.nbcsports.com/2016/02/11/shaq-yao-iverson-look-to-take-next-step-to-hall-of-fame-4/

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Shaq, Yao, Iverson look to take next step to Hall of Fame


TORONTO (AP) Shaquille O’Neal should be a lock. Yao Ming and Allen Iverson could join him.

Two larger-than-life big men and one of basketball’s most exciting little guys highlight the list of players, coaches and contributors who are eligible for induction this year into the Naismith Memorial Basketball Hall of Fame.

O’Neal and Iverson must get past an extra step by first being chosen as finalists Friday at a press conference during the NBA’s All-Star weekend festivities. If they do, they would then require 18 votes from the 24-member Honors Committee, as do all nominees from the North American and Women’s Committees.

But Yao was nominated by the Hall’s International Committee, recognized as much for his impact in the growth of basketball in his native China as his play in the NBA. That committee elects players directly to the Hall.

The class of 2016 will be unveiled April 4 in Houston on the day of the NCAA championship game, and the enshrinement ceremony is set for Sept. 9 in Springfield, Massachusetts.

O’Neal, Yao and Iverson earned a chance to be a part of it after a recent rule change that made players eligible for nomination after four full seasons of retirement. Previously, they had to wait five years, which meant they were actually six years removed from their playing days by the time they could take their place in the birthplace of basketball.

O’Neal won four NBA championships, an MVP award and is in the league’s top 10 in career scoring. Iverson, just 6-feet tall, won four scoring titles and was the league’s MVP in 2001, when his 48-performance for Philadelphia in Game 1 of the NBA Finals handed O’Neal’s Lakers their only loss of the most dominant postseason in NBA history.

Yao doesn’t have as impressive a resume, his career cut short by multiple foot injuries. But the 7-foot-6 center lasted long enough to make an enormous impact on and off the court after being selected No. 1 overall in 2002.



A look at some others who could be Springfield-bound in September:

JERRY KRAUSE: On the 20th anniversary of the Chicago Bulls compiling the best record in NBA history, perhaps it’s time to honor the executive who was one of the architects of the six-time champions?

TOM IZZO: The way he consistently gets his Michigan State teams to peak in March, don’t be surprised if he’s got a game to coach in Houston when the class he should be in appears during Final Four weekend.

SHERYL SWOOPES: The first player signed by the WNBA went on to win three MVP awards and four championships in the league, but it was her 47-point performance in leading Texas Tech to the 1993 NCAA championship that many think of first when talking about one of the greats of women’s basketball.

MARV ALBERT: Already a Hall of Famer as a broadcaster, Albert, like Krause, is now nominated by the Contributor Committee that directly elects to the Hall. Should he be honored again? As Albert might exclaim while calling a game, “YES!!”

DARELL GARRETSON: He officiated more than 2,000 games in the NBA and spent 17 years as the league’s chief of officiating. There aren’t many easy calls for referees, but this seems an easy call about one.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2016 9:24 pm    Post subject:

CBaller8 wrote:
Regarding just on court production/accomplishments, why does Yao get in?


He had a great international career.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 13, 2016 5:16 am    Post subject:

70sdude wrote:
Well, there's a Shaq-like fellow in Miami again, and he's not having quite the impact one might imagine coming from a young Shaquille O'Neal.

Maybe the game's moved a click or two away rule-wise in the twenty-two years since Shaq arrived, at least in terms of again permitting a physical interior player to dominate action to the extent he once could.


You aren't seriously comparing the two are you?
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 14, 2016 5:21 pm    Post subject:

Just saw the Showtime feature on AI called "Iverson"

Really cool documentary, really well done.

AI was inefficient at times in the NBA, but the guy was an athletic freak of nature and certainly a HOF player.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2016 11:36 am    Post subject:

http://nba.nbcsports.com/2016/03/30/report-yao-ming-to-be-enshrined-in-basketball-hall-of-fame/


Quote:
Report: Yao Ming to be enshrined in Basketball Hall of Fame


Does Yao Ming belong in the Basketball Hall of Fame?

Competing with players like Vlade Divac, Toni Kukoc and Dino Radja, the answer appears to be yes.

That’s at least the conclusion of the Hall’s international committee, which judged Yao’s candidacy.

Adrian Wojnarowski of Yahoo Sports:

Former Houston Rockets center Yao Ming, a transcendent 7-foot-6 Chinese icon, has been elected for enshrinement into the Naismith Memorial Basketball Hall of Fame’s Class of 2016, league sources told The Vertical.

The honors committee considers finalists as determined by the North American committee, including Shaquille O’Neal and Allen Iverson this year. Those two will likely join Yao in the Hall after going through that additional layer of scrutiny. Yao got directly elected by the international committee.

Yao made five All-NBA teams – two seconds and a three thirds – in his nine-year career. He made the All-Star game all nine of his seasons, though fan voting certainly helped. He averaged 19.0 points and 9.2 rebounds per game.

He played like a borderline Hall of Famer.

But the Basketball Hall of Fame does a poor job honoring the sport’s best players. Rather, the Hall attempts to honor people from various backgrounds. So, Yao gets extra credit for being a pioneer from Asia in the NBA. That’s an important part of Yao’s story, but it doesn’t alter his on-court accomplishments.

So, back to the original question: Does Yao Ming belong in the Basketball Hall of Fame? It’d be an interesting argument for an NBA Hall of Fame. But in the Basketball Hall of Fame, there was little doubt he’d make it.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2016 3:05 pm    Post subject:

http://nba.nbcsports.com/2016/04/04/shaquille-oneal-allen-iverson-elected-to-basketball-hall-of-fame/

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Shaquille O’Neal, Allen Iverson elected to Basketball Hall of Fame

Yao Ming was directly elected into the Basketball Hall of Fame this year.

Now, after another round of voting, he has NBA company.

Shaquille O’Neal and Allen Iverson were elected. So was Bulls owner Jerry Reinsdorf, former referee Darell Garretson and former player Zelmo Beaty. The only NBA finalist not elected was Kevin Johnson, who has bigger problems.

Shaq and Iverson are no-brainers.

Shaq dominated, maybe more so than anyone but Wilt Chamberlain. No center in his era could handle his massive size and nimbleness in the post. He became a star with the Magic and megastar with the Lakers, whom he led to three championships. Shaq moved around more later in his career, winning another title with the Heat.

Iverson inspires more debate, but all but his biggest detractors acknowledge he belongs in the Hall. The fearless and small guard was a scoring dynamo, though often too inefficient. He got plenty of steals, though gambled for many of them. His fans don’t care about the shortcomings. He changed the game with his style and swagger – helping to make cornrows and armbands popular. He was the NBA trendsetter of his day, and his influence is still being felt in a league full of players who grew up cheering for him.

Reinsdorf won six titles with Michael Jordan. Garretson refereed for a while. I have a hard enough time assessing how the Basketball (read: not NBA) Hall of Fame judges NBA players. There’s even less clear criteria for owners and refs, so I won’t begin to guess.

Beaty got in through the Veterans Committee, which also considered “1964 State Dept Basketball Ambassadors” and Tennessee A&I. So, understanding that committee’s criteria is even more of a challenge. Beaty made the 1966 and 1968 All-Star games with the St. Louis Hawks then played in the ABA. Though he was a nice player in his time, I don’t see anything Hall of Fame-worthy in his playing career (besides his name).

But I’ve long given up on trying to understand the Basketball Hall of Fame. At least voters got it right with Shaq and Iverson.

Also elected: Tom Izzo, Sheryl Swoopes, Cumberland Posey and John McClendon.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2016 4:08 pm    Post subject:

Basketball Fan wrote:
http://nba.nbcsports.com/2016/04/04/shaquille-oneal-allen-iverson-elected-to-basketball-hall-of-fame/

Quote:
Shaquille O’Neal, Allen Iverson elected to Basketball Hall of Fame

Yao Ming was directly elected into the Basketball Hall of Fame this year.

Now, after another round of voting, he has NBA company.

Shaquille O’Neal and Allen Iverson were elected. So was Bulls owner Jerry Reinsdorf, former referee Darell Garretson and former player Zelmo Beaty. The only NBA finalist not elected was Kevin Johnson, who has bigger problems.

Shaq and Iverson are no-brainers.

Shaq dominated, maybe more so than anyone but Wilt Chamberlain. No center in his era could handle his massive size and nimbleness in the post. He became a star with the Magic and megastar with the Lakers, whom he led to three championships. Shaq moved around more later in his career, winning another title with the Heat.

Iverson inspires more debate, but all but his biggest detractors acknowledge he belongs in the Hall. The fearless and small guard was a scoring dynamo, though often too inefficient. He got plenty of steals, though gambled for many of them. His fans don’t care about the shortcomings. He changed the game with his style and swagger – helping to make cornrows and armbands popular. He was the NBA trendsetter of his day, and his influence is still being felt in a league full of players who grew up cheering for him.

Reinsdorf won six titles with Michael Jordan. Garretson refereed for a while. I have a hard enough time assessing how the Basketball (read: not NBA) Hall of Fame judges NBA players. There’s even less clear criteria for owners and refs, so I won’t begin to guess.

Beaty got in through the Veterans Committee, which also considered “1964 State Dept Basketball Ambassadors” and Tennessee A&I. So, understanding that committee’s criteria is even more of a challenge. Beaty made the 1966 and 1968 All-Star games with the St. Louis Hawks then played in the ABA. Though he was a nice player in his time, I don’t see anything Hall of Fame-worthy in his playing career (besides his name).

But I’ve long given up on trying to understand the Basketball Hall of Fame. At least voters got it right with Shaq and Iverson.

Also elected: Tom Izzo, Sheryl Swoopes, Cumberland Posey and John McClendon.


I wouldn't have put in Zelmo. Solid enough player, but not a Hall of Famer to me. Makes me wonder if he had a buddy on the veterans committee who pushed him through, cause it's not like in the 40 years since he retired there has been some big upcry about why he wasn't in the Hall.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2016 7:09 pm    Post subject:

I guess many seem to forget the dynamic AI who generally destroyed anyone in his path on the daily ... basically five seasons averaging 30+ points, 4.5 boards, 6.5 assists and 2.5 steals ... maybe pound-per-pound GOAT?

Forgettable FG %age, but also did more with less than anyone.

Congrats #3 ...
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2016 8:32 pm    Post subject:

the association wrote:
I guess many seem to forget the dynamic AI who generally destroyed anyone in his path on the daily ... basically five seasons averaging 30+ points, 4.5 boards, 6.5 assists and 2.5 steals ... maybe pound-per-pound GOAT?

Forgettable FG %age, but also did more with less than anyone.

Congrats #3 ...



He was small by NBA standards, but he was gifted with more natural speed and quickness than maybe any player in NBA history so I am not sure about doing "more with less." (People often think of players have an unfair advantage because of unnatural size, but they generally don't think the same thing about unnatural quickness)

Actually, I think his problem was doing less with more -- just getting by on natural talent, which led to his early flameout.

Deserves to be in the Hall, but a sad story overall.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2016 8:41 pm    Post subject:

activeverb wrote:
the association wrote:
I guess many seem to forget the dynamic AI who generally destroyed anyone in his path on the daily ... basically five seasons averaging 30+ points, 4.5 boards, 6.5 assists and 2.5 steals ... maybe pound-per-pound GOAT?

Forgettable FG %age, but also did more with less than anyone.

Congrats #3 ...



He was small by NBA standards, but he was gifted with more natural speed and quickness than maybe any player in NBA history so I am not sure about doing "more with less." (People often think of players have an unfair advantage because of unnatural size, but they generally don't think the same thing about unnatural quickness)

Actually, I think his problem was doing less with more -- just getting by on natural talent, which led to his early flameout.

Deserves to be in the Hall, but a sad story overall.


I see your point, but 160 pounds is 160 pounds ... I guess you can argue he would be GOAT if he had Kobe's work ethic or Kawhi's asceticism (which would have to be the logical conclusion from your point considering what AI did accomplish as a "slacker"), but I don't think I'd go there myself.

Maybe Mike Conley is a decent proxy for AI today ... but think of the production difference between those two players. Quickness and speed only get you so far.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2016 9:14 pm    Post subject:

the association wrote:

I see your point, but 160 pounds is 160 pounds ... I guess you can argue he would be GOAT if he had Kobe's work ethic or Kawhi's asceticism (which would have to be the logical conclusion from your point considering what AI did accomplish as a "slacker"), but I don't think I'd go there myself.


I'm not big on woulda coulda shouldas. Everyone who gets into the NBA has amazing gifts, some more so than others. Everyone has some flaws. I don't give extra credit for being small, or take way points for being large. You do what you do, and that's all that matters.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2016 4:56 pm    Post subject:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CrswgjZUkAAeA-4.jpg

Here's the list of presenters for the finalists.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2016 8:35 am    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
I wonder whether Iverson will practice his speech.


Post of the day.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2016 8:58 am    Post subject:

Iverson always reminded me of Nate Archibald, but the modernized version of Tiny.

Both had unusual abilities w/r/t changing speeds, changing directions, reaching high acceleration rates and high speeds with control with the ball. Each probably was best of their respective eras in those respects. Both evaded contact in the air as well as any small guy I've seen. AI had superb hang times and he was a quick jumper too. Some of that is physics-related (low mass, change direction and speeds easier) but some of that was talent. So few little guys were that good.

The only knock on AI's game that ever stuck for me was his limit as a creative passer other than when dishing off after a drive. He really was just an average guard in this one area, but he was marvelous in the others.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2016 10:29 am    Post subject:

Quote:

“I only played 30 percent of my real game,” O’Neal told The Vertical. “I had a great career, but I didn’t get a chance to showcase what I can really do. That’s because the double- and triple-teams were coming so quick, I had to dominate, dominate, dominate inside. I had the ability to step out, go around defenders, dribble by people, but I never got to show that.

“I had to focus on being the most powerful, dominant player to ever play the game.”

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/vertical-q-shaquille-oneal-000000321.html





Shaq's work ethic is what held him back. He'd lose motivation and get fat.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2016 10:36 am    Post subject:

JUST-MING wrote:
Quote:

“I only played 30 percent of my real game,” O’Neal told The Vertical. “I had a great career, but I didn’t get a chance to showcase what I can really do. That’s because the double- and triple-teams were coming so quick, I had to dominate, dominate, dominate inside. I had the ability to step out, go around defenders, dribble by people, but I never got to show that.

“I had to focus on being the most powerful, dominant player to ever play the game.”

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/vertical-q-shaquille-oneal-000000321.html





Shaq's work ethic is what held him back. He'd lose motivation and get fat.
Agreed. He could've been a top 3 player all time. Should've been.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2016 12:31 pm    Post subject:

Vancouver Fan wrote:
JUST-MING wrote:
Quote:

“I only played 30 percent of my real game,” O’Neal told The Vertical. “I had a great career, but I didn’t get a chance to showcase what I can really do. That’s because the double- and triple-teams were coming so quick, I had to dominate, dominate, dominate inside. I had the ability to step out, go around defenders, dribble by people, but I never got to show that.

“I had to focus on being the most powerful, dominant player to ever play the game.”

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/vertical-q-shaquille-oneal-000000321.html





Shaq's work ethic is what held him back. He'd lose motivation and get fat.
Agreed. He could've been a top 3 player all time. Should've been.


I don't think he lost motivation or lacked motivation and focus, he just got injured all the time and that made his body weaker.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2016 2:14 pm    Post subject:

Vancouver Fan wrote:
JUST-MING wrote:
Quote:

“I only played 30 percent of my real game,” O’Neal told The Vertical. “I had a great career, but I didn’t get a chance to showcase what I can really do. That’s because the double- and triple-teams were coming so quick, I had to dominate, dominate, dominate inside. I had the ability to step out, go around defenders, dribble by people, but I never got to show that.

“I had to focus on being the most powerful, dominant player to ever play the game.”

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/vertical-q-shaquille-oneal-000000321.html





Shaq's work ethic is what held him back. He'd lose motivation and get fat.
Agreed. He could've been a top 3 player all time. Should've been.


I think it's more that Shaq had a lot of outside interests and he could do really well without being focused 100% on basketball. I mean, would his life be any different now if people on Internet boards said he was the 3rd best of all time rather than the 5th or 8th or whatever best? Probably not.

I don't think he'd trade the partying and rap albums and the other stuff for one more ring.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2016 2:16 pm    Post subject:

ODotSoHot wrote:
70sdude wrote:
Well, there's a Shaq-like fellow in Miami again, and he's not having quite the impact one might imagine coming from a young Shaquille O'Neal.

Maybe the game's moved a click or two away rule-wise in the twenty-two years since Shaq arrived, at least in terms of again permitting a physical interior player to dominate action to the extent he once could.


I like Whiteside as much as the next guy, but that kid is nowhere near the class of player that Shaq was at that age.


Not even in the same universe as Shaq!

FYI: Prime Shaq would still dominate.
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