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tlim
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Joined: 26 Jun 2002
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 Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 12:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Kobe>Lebron wrote: |
Adam Lanza on his own FB describes himself as an atheist and says :**** God"
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And yet he was a regular church attendee. I guess his mom controlled him too much perhaps in that manner? Is that what you're sahying?
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Do you need a link?
Seung-Hui Cho rails against Christianity in his manifesto, his parents tried to force him to church with no success. I will admit however that his manifesto rambles and makes little sense.
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He definitely was insane. He went to church and yet hated it at the same time. Maybe he should have stopped a long time ago? Either way, mental health issues for all.
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Dylan Roof attended church as a child but didnt really say much about religion or atheism before or after his killing spree. So that one is a ? although it was assumed he was an atheist as he shot up a bible study.
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Meh... When you feel slighted, even if you are religious, you'll kill just about anyone. Again, unless he came out and said he doesn't actually believe in a god, he's still affiliated, true?
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But assuming those guys are not atheists then I will add a couple more:
Jared Lee Loughner
Chris Dorner
Point is everyone has their wackos. |
Yes, everyone has their wackos. No doubt about it. What we do know from the known statistics that aethists have the propensity to not commit crimes.
2013 study of prisoners came out that atheists are 0.07% of the prison population. That seriously is under representative of the population of atheists in the US. So it can be inferred that it is less likely to be violent. True?
Again, everyone has their wackos, but there seems to be data that says that people who really see the world for what it is are less likely to commit crimes as a whole. |
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lakerjoshua
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| Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 12:18 pm Post subject: |
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Well, for full disclosure let's look at the whole thing in context. From your link:
| Quote: | | Nevada state Assemblywoman Michele Fiore (R), a close ally of the Bundy family, planted the notion that Finicum was cooperating with police when he was shot. She told The Oregonian that Lisa Bundy, wife of militia leader Ammon Bundy, received a phone call from her husband from the back of a squad car moments after he was arrested. Fiore said Bundy told her Finicum was cooperating with police and had his hands raised when he was shot three times. |
Please note the bolded. Someone who is a supporter, heard from a family member who who heard from Bundy, who magically was able to sneak his cell phone into the back of the quad car... |
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Nordvader
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| Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 12:30 pm Post subject: |
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| lakerjoshua wrote: |
Well, for full disclosure let's look at the whole thing in context. From your link:
| Quote: | | Nevada state Assemblywoman Michele Fiore (R), a close ally of the Bundy family, planted the notion that Finicum was cooperating with police when he was shot. She told The Oregonian that Lisa Bundy, wife of militia leader Ammon Bundy, received a phone call from her husband from the back of a squad car moments after he was arrested. Fiore said Bundy told her Finicum was cooperating with police and had his hands raised when he was shot three times. |
Please note the bolded. Someone who is a supporter, heard from a family member who who heard from Bundy, who magically was able to sneak his cell phone into the back of the quad car... |
I read it and found it hilarious. Because I can nearly guarantee that if you check the social media history of most of the people supporting this story, they were vehemently against black lives matter supporters and hands up don't shoot. |
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lakerjoshua
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| Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 12:54 pm Post subject: |
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| So now that one of them has indeed been shot dead, does that mean the OP was wrong? |
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lakerjoshua
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| Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 12:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Nordvader wrote: | | lakerjoshua wrote: |
Well, for full disclosure let's look at the whole thing in context. From your link:
| Quote: | | Nevada state Assemblywoman Michele Fiore (R), a close ally of the Bundy family, planted the notion that Finicum was cooperating with police when he was shot. She told The Oregonian that Lisa Bundy, wife of militia leader Ammon Bundy, received a phone call from her husband from the back of a squad car moments after he was arrested. Fiore said Bundy told her Finicum was cooperating with police and had his hands raised when he was shot three times. |
Please note the bolded. Someone who is a supporter, heard from a family member who who heard from Bundy, who magically was able to sneak his cell phone into the back of the quad car... |
I read it and found it hilarious. Because I can nearly guarantee that if you check the social media history of most of the people supporting this story, they were vehemently against black lives matter supporters and hands up don't shoot. |
Agreed 100%. |
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lakersken80
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| Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 1:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Nordvader wrote: | | lakerjoshua wrote: |
Well, for full disclosure let's look at the whole thing in context. From your link:
| Quote: | | Nevada state Assemblywoman Michele Fiore (R), a close ally of the Bundy family, planted the notion that Finicum was cooperating with police when he was shot. She told The Oregonian that Lisa Bundy, wife of militia leader Ammon Bundy, received a phone call from her husband from the back of a squad car moments after he was arrested. Fiore said Bundy told her Finicum was cooperating with police and had his hands raised when he was shot three times. |
Please note the bolded. Someone who is a supporter, heard from a family member who who heard from Bundy, who magically was able to sneak his cell phone into the back of the quad car... |
I read it and found it hilarious. Because I can nearly guarantee that if you check the social media history of most of the people supporting this story, they were vehemently against black lives matter supporters and hands up don't shoot. |
Also I doubt they would welcome anybody who wasn't white. No Asians, African Americans ,Hispanics, Native Americans, etc. I heard the reasoning that they weren't terrorists because they didn't kill anybody. Well they were armed and took over federal property and tried to enact their own laws. These guys were no different than the guys in the sovereign citizen movement, the guys trying to establish a white homeland in the Pacific Northwest, or the Oklahoma City bombing terrorists. They were white supremacists under a different banner. |
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 1:41 pm Post subject: |
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| lakerjoshua wrote: |
Well, for full disclosure let's look at the whole thing in context. From your link:
| Quote: | | Nevada state Assemblywoman Michele Fiore (R), a close ally of the Bundy family, planted the notion that Finicum was cooperating with police when he was shot. She told The Oregonian that Lisa Bundy, wife of militia leader Ammon Bundy, received a phone call from her husband from the back of a squad car moments after he was arrested. Fiore said Bundy told her Finicum was cooperating with police and had his hands raised when he was shot three times. |
Please note the bolded. Someone who is a supporter, heard from a family member who who heard from Bundy, who magically was able to sneak his cell phone into the back of the quad car... |
Not to mention that the story doesn't make sense since the others were taken into custody without being shot. So if he was actually complying and had his hands raised, why shoot him if they didn't shoot any of the others? |
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jodeke
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| Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 4:26 pm Post subject: |
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I find it insulting to the movement Blacklivesmatter when someone is killed the #whateverlivesmatter is used.
Coming from Bundy, I find it difficult to believe Finicum's hands were in the air, hands up don't shoot.
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America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
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OregonLakerGuy
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| Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 4:55 pm Post subject: |
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One shot dead. Bad result regardless of ideology.
I don't know how anyone who did not actually witness the shooting could possibly know what happened, but I have no doubt that plenty of people have already formed an opinion on whether it was justified.
As in most of these matters, I await the facts and will give the authorities the benefit of the doubt. |
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lakerjoshua
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| Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 5:08 pm Post subject: |
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| OregonLakerGuy wrote: | One shot dead. Bad result regardless of ideology.
I don't know how anyone who did not actually witness the shooting could possibly know what happened, but I have no doubt that plenty of people have already formed an opinion on whether it was justified.
As in most of these matters, I await the facts and will give the authorities the benefit of the doubt. |
Agreed, bad result when they had 6 targets, more evidence of inadiquate police firearm training  |
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 5:34 pm Post subject: |
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| OregonLakerGuy wrote: | One shot dead. Bad result regardless of ideology.
I don't know how anyone who did not actually witness the shooting could possibly know what happened, but I have no doubt that plenty of people have already formed an opinion on whether it was justified.
As in most of these matters, I await the facts and will give the authorities the benefit of the doubt. |
Yep, no way to know without some corroboration for sure. I would have to guess that given the restraint shown so far and the fact that are likely very wary of a Waco/Ruby Ridge type of result, law enforcement is not eager to pull the trigger if it's not necessary. |
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vanexelent
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| Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 6:17 pm Post subject: |
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| lakerjoshua wrote: | | So now that one of them has indeed been shot dead, does that mean the OP was wrong? |
Yes. I believe this is the right step in equality. |
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DaMuleRules
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lakersken80
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| Posted: Thu Jan 28, 2016 8:50 pm Post subject: |
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The fact that they didn't riddle the truck with bullets when they almost ran over that FBI agent is incredible....
That being said that idiot clearly didn't comply. He made sudden movements and looked like he was reaching for a weapon. Anybody who watches any number of police chases will conclude that you must comply when the officer tells you to, and don't make any sudden movements. Deviate from that and you will most likely go home in a bodybag. |
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Thu Jan 28, 2016 9:12 pm Post subject: |
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| lakersken80 wrote: |
The fact that they didn't riddle the truck with bullets when they almost ran over that FBI agent is incredible.... |
Yeah, I think that was likely because they believed it wasn't intentional - the truck was trying to avoid a collision and the agent kind of appeared from nowhere.
| Quote: | | That being said that idiot clearly didn't comply. He made sudden movements and looked like he was reaching for a weapon. Anybody who watches any number of police chases will conclude that you must comply when the officer tells you to, and don't make any sudden movements. Deviate from that and you will most likely go home in a bodybag. |
Yep. Finicum pretty much sealed his fate. Looks like he was going to try to shoot at the agent advancing on him and was caught by surprise by the agent who must have been hiding behind a tree who appears to be the one who shot him.
From the video it looks like they used a bunch of flash bangs to distract the and disorient the others in a move to get them to give themselves up. |
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jodeke
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| Posted: Thu Jan 28, 2016 9:30 pm Post subject: |
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It did look like he was reaching for something. I was looking to see if handcuff the perpetrator procedure was followed. I couldn't tell.
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Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Thu Jan 28, 2016 9:34 pm Post subject: |
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| jodeke wrote: | | It did look like he was reaching for something. I was looking to see if handcuff the perpetrator procedure was followed. I couldn't tell. |
For obvious reasons, it's not something they are going to do until they have all the other suspects in custody or neutralized. You're not going to walk over and 'cuff Finicum when they are other armed guys sitting by the windows of the vehicle who could shoot at you. |
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non-player zealot
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| Posted: Thu Jan 28, 2016 9:36 pm Post subject: |
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| DaMuleRules wrote: | | lakersken80 wrote: |
The fact that they didn't riddle the truck with bullets when they almost ran over that FBI agent is incredible.... |
Yeah, I think that was likely because they believed it wasn't intentional - the truck was trying to avoid a collision and the agent kind of appeared from nowhere.
| Quote: | | That being said that idiot clearly didn't comply. He made sudden movements and looked like he was reaching for a weapon. Anybody who watches any number of police chases will conclude that you must comply when the officer tells you to, and don't make any sudden movements. Deviate from that and you will most likely go home in a bodybag. |
Yep. Finicum pretty much sealed his fate. Looks like he was going to try to shoot at the agent advancing on him and was caught by surprise by the agent who must have been hiding behind a tree who appears to be the one who shot him.
From the video it looks like they used a bunch of flash bangs to distract the and disorient the others in a move to get them to give themselves up. |
That politician-nitwit who talked out of her ass about him getting shot with his hands up should retract/amend...but I'm not holding my breath on her having the integrity to do that.
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non-player zealot
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| Posted: Thu Jan 28, 2016 9:40 pm Post subject: |
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An MSNBC report on the standoff dubbed Finicum “Tarp Man” as he could be seen covered in a blue tarp with a rocking chair during the incident. When asked by NBC News why he chose to sit out in such a visible position, he said that he wanted officers to be able to find him. Finicum said, “I do not want the FBI federal agents to have to go running around in the dark, kicking in doors looking for me, OK? I want them to know exactly where I’m at.” He added, chillingly, “I’m telling them right now — don’t point guns at me.”
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OregonLakerGuy
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| Posted: Thu Jan 28, 2016 9:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Suicide by cop or near enough to make no difference |
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lakersken80
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| Posted: Thu Jan 28, 2016 9:51 pm Post subject: |
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| non-player zealot wrote: | | An MSNBC report on the standoff dubbed Finicum “Tarp Man” as he could be seen covered in a blue tarp with a rocking chair during the incident. When asked by NBC News why he chose to sit out in such a visible position, he said that he wanted officers to be able to find him. Finicum said, “I do not want the FBI federal agents to have to go running around in the dark, kicking in doors looking for me, OK? I want them to know exactly where I’m at.” He added, chillingly, “I’m telling them right now — don’t point guns at me.” |
So was he the only guy that got out of the vehicle? His bravado got him killed and in the process probably scared the rest of the crew to surrender. These guys were all brave up until the moment they saw their buddy take a slug to the chest. I notice their camp immediately called for the holdouts to give up, but they haven't. I guess they weren't all unified like he thought they were. |
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jodeke
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| Posted: Thu Jan 28, 2016 10:00 pm Post subject: |
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| DaMuleRules wrote: | | jodeke wrote: | | It did look like he was reaching for something. I was looking to see if handcuff the perpetrator procedure was followed. I couldn't tell. |
For obvious reasons, it's not something they are going to do until they have all the other suspects in custody or neutralized. You're not going to walk over and 'cuff Finicum when they are other armed guys sitting by the windows of the vehicle who could shoot at you. |
I mean after the vehicle was cleared. I thought it was procedure to handcuff a downed person as a precaution. They did Brown.
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Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
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lakersken80
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| Posted: Fri Jan 29, 2016 12:39 am Post subject: |
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| Also unlike their previous occupation, nobody wanted to venture out to freezing cold Oregon in the winter. I believe whatever support they tried to get from the local townspeople failed miserably. So the only people who held onto their futile attempt to hold onto federal lands was a bunch of out of towners who weren't familiar with the area and locals. |
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Huey Lewis & The News
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Location: So what's the uh...topic of discussion?
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| Posted: Fri Jan 29, 2016 3:22 am Post subject: |
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| They textbook dropped that little pip squeak. He was literally asking for it. |
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Fri Jan 29, 2016 7:02 am Post subject: |
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| OregonLakerGuy wrote: | | Suicide by cop or near enough to make no difference |
Exactly what it was I think. This is a guy who stated he wasn't going to go to prison and warned law enforcement officials not to point weapons at him.
My guess is he chose exactly how we wanted to go out. |
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