Fan contradiction about Odom and LAL
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THE_SHOES
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 2:11 pm    Post subject:

vanexelent wrote:
postandpivot wrote:
vanexelent wrote:
LA_Lakers_Rule wrote:
vanexelent wrote:
Quote:

Odom's post game is not that good. If we want a PF to post up, lets go after one that does so automatically. If we want a guy to facilitate the offense and also be able to score, lets go after a PG that does so. This would open the floor a lot more than Odom has been able to do.


The crux of the matter is you get what you get with Phil. Phil's approach in regards to his Triangle does not support a "true" PG in his view. He has always liked tall guards in the backcourt and I think that using Odom in the manner that he does is just another illustration of Phil's approach.

We can either blame Phil and complain and complain or we can hope that Phil knows what he is doing and remain patient. Not an easy proposition either way, but the fact remains that nothing is going to change as far as his approach to the game and the way he uses his players and as long as Phil is at the helm we might as well get used to it.


I'm familiar with the guards that Phil has liked to play on past teams, championship teams. I know what he got from them and how they played. I don't see this in Lamar Odom though. I know Odom is ideally supposed to be such a facilitator, and we are supposed to get even more from him because of his size, but he is stuck between both posisitons now and not excelling at either of them. I would prefer the calming presence of a Ron Harper or Derek Fisher. Instead we get a Lamar Odom who shoots at inopportune times or doesn't shoot when he should. Harper, Fisher, Shaw, they all had confidence is their passing as well as their shot selection. Odom has neither.

harper nor fisher, nor shaw, passed on the move. L.O. does. he doesn't just swing it around the horn from the top. perhaps thats all he should do. but thats not using his abilities. fisher was what, a shooter, that could on occasion drive to the basket. harper was supposed to be a shooter(in the tri), that could also drive the basket when need be. B.shaw, was a shooter and a passer(stand still passer), LO is supposed to be what? non of these guys. but more of a scottie type. but I'll say this. if it wasn't a fast break how often did you see scottie breaking someone down off the dribble and then dishing? you rarley so that from scottie. but for some odd reason, thats what the coaching staff wants LO to do.

let me hip you guys and the staff to something. You cant have fancing on the move passing within the triangle offense. it just doesn't work. never has, and never will. So now what?. that means you have to tell LO. to do a scottie. bring the ball up, stop, swing it around, move, set that slip screen, then roll to the basket. then shoot back out to the corner, then back to the top. next time down, odom gives up the pass right when he gets across half court, so someone else can play the dfish/shaw/harper roll. and LO hits the post before mihm gets there. you give it to L.O. and run it thru him like they did in miami. now you're wondering, where is kobe in all this? playing off the ball making cuts just like everyone else.

next play you switch it back to the kobe triangle. then switch it back to LO's triangle, then back to bryants triangle. now i will say this. perhaps its all about L.O.'s knowledge of the offense. perhaps he's not yet comfortable enough to do what i suggested within, the offense. and perhaps thats causing all the problems and errors on his part.

lets take D.george for example. any notice how aggressive he looks on offense. he didn't use to be this aggressive. but its the fact that he knows the offense better then anyone not named kobe. notice how when devean gets it on the high post, and instead of just giving the ball to kobe on that drop off pass, he knows when to keep it and turn and shoot, or even turn and go to the basket. you ever notice how he's the only laker that does that. all the rest of the guys give that drop pass like 80% of the time, and other 20% they kick it back out behind the 3 point line to reset it and run thru a different set within the tri. check em out next time. thats a tell tell sign that if you know what you're doing, you as kobe has suggested, can make the triangle bend for you. not the other way around.

and lets remember one last thing. fish, wasn't hitting all those big 3's his first year in the triangle, that was glen rice.

and ron harper was struggling to fit in with chicago his first year. and ron was a known 20point scorer. all of a sudden he was averaging half of that or less. what happened?


Your post was difficult to understand, but I think I got what you were trying to say. Harper's scoring went down in Chicago because he defered to Jordan and Pippen, similar to Odom deferring to Kobe? Odom is supposed to run the fast break, like Scotty, but the Lakers never fast break so he is just a guy who dribbles up and passes the ball?

So, if Odom's role is religated to that of a PG, who dribbles up and passes the ball to initiate the offense, then why not just have a regular PG who does this, especially one that can shoot? You already pointed out, I think, that Fisher, Shaw and Harper could all hit open shots. Odom cannot, or at least has not, in this offense.


Smush and, Sasha just aren't polished enough for the job as of yet. Parker could be but, he leaves you wondering as to what he is thinking about half the time. It would be awesom to see Smush running the show while kobe is at the 2 and Odom at the 3. Kobe could be anywhere he wanted anytime he wanted while Odom would be working the leagues 3's. The plan to make Kwame into something is a patient one. Will he please show us something soon?! Imagine if Kwame were tough in the middle. Now every guy's game on the squad would be effected. double teaming Kobe would be minimized because with a powerful precscence in the middle the offense becomes more difficult to cover with Odom now having options defenses have to respect. If at least three guys are reliable Odom then becomes the ultimate threat at 6-10 and ball handling skills.
How people can't see that this team struggles because it struggles all across the table is a mystery to me. That is one of the reasons kobe goes off mavericking so often. They can't hang yet. Odom is sitting out on the perimeter trying to orchestrate a band that can barely play and the mess continues. This is the main reason I complain about the idiotic whining...
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Last edited by THE_SHOES on Mon Feb 06, 2006 2:16 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 2:16 pm    Post subject:

THE_SHOES wrote:
bounty wrote:
THE_SHOES wrote:
bounty wrote:
THE_SHOES wrote:
drzucchini wrote:
Who is "we" again? The party that says Odom is at fault is not the same group that says that the team can't win without him. :roll:


Make no mistake! This man is to never be mistaken for a supporter of anybody beyond Kobe Bryant...

Sorry dr.z they didn't know....



One thing about LG, we got more haters amongst us than what exist in Sac and, San Antonio probably combined! Seriously I would love to take a roll call!


Dont forget your category. You root for the name on the back of the jersey not the front. Those are the worst fans.


bounty, one thing for sure is that everybody knows about my love for the Lakers. You think that everybody can say the same for you?
At times you sound like a troll dude...

I fully support my team and definiteyl enjoy getting into hater's faces. When have you been on the positive end of a post? 8) In fact the only reason you post is to make derragatory remarks about LO...
You're contributions are no better than that of another clubs fan so, really now, who could be mistaken as not being a Laker fan?
You sound about like I would if I was on A Spurs site talking about Rick Barry's kid!

Nah your a player fan not team fan. You can tell. When you say "consistency is overated" about a player. You are not a fan of the team. That statement is a slap in the face of the lakers Org. Its cool.


Sure did say it. I get sick and tired of hearing people pin that stupid term on LO when up until recently the only player that was considered consistent was Kobe and LO. Now Mihm has become pretty solid. LO can be counted on nightly to board and look for people and score when the opporunity presents itself. That is what he does. LO's game is predicated on guys like Smush, Kwame, Cook etc hitting shots and, working the triangle in effect so that LO can do his job. THIS is why I get sick of the dumbass remarks being thrown at nobody but LO about being consistent.With the exception of Mihm every guy on the Laker squad is here today and gone tomorrow. If LO just sat in the post while somebody else fed him or did nothing but look for his shot you folks wouldn't have ammo for your ignorant argument.

Since you don't understand what is going on out on the floor is why I made that statement. You don't play no ball so, you have no idea what is happening. Like others who have nothing more than television watching skills and, the use of a forum for a weapon they start screaming about things that challenge their collective intelligence.

Here is another for you bounty since you like collecting my rhetoric!

Excellance does not require perfection!

8)

Nah. You know LO has been inconsistent all year and last. His whole career. You are not a Lakers fan. Or else that statement would never have been said. the one aspect to all GOOd players games is consistency.
You prefer LO over the Lakers. its cool. "Excellance does not require perfection!" No but striving for perfection is what creates excellence. Its OK to be an LO fan and not a lakers fan. Dont trip. Like you give Lo excuses I give The COLORS excuses. Lakers > LO At least your guy is making mad cash. Thats should make you happy. You Lose Excepting Lo's inconsistency is in direct contrast to the TEAM

BTW- I've dabbled in BBall. Not my thing though, I grew up on the beach and prefer Volleyball. BBall is not hard to understand, we all grew up playing it. Watching LO, it also is not hard to understand why he is avg. Sorry.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 2:24 pm    Post subject:

What next bounty "I know you are but what am I?"

Gimme a break.. What are you 12 all of a sudden? Lets talk hoops or I'll just leave you and that 40point machine character alone as I'll figure you're one in the same...

I'm giving you my position and, all you can do is say that I worship Odom? Where is that at? I thought you were sharper than that. Offer me something beside that one argument of Odoms whole career which changed enough in Miami to make what you're saying an out and, out lie anyway. Lots of players changed after leaving the Clipps and you know it.You need to change that or, update it because you're making absolutely no sense...

Incidentally I used to get tired of people workingFisher, George, and, Sasha too... So if you can't see a fan who thinks all of his Lakers are sacred you're pretty blind...
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 2:29 pm    Post subject:

bounty wrote:
THE_SHOES wrote:
bounty wrote:
THE_SHOES wrote:
bounty wrote:
THE_SHOES wrote:
drzucchini wrote:
Who is "we" again? The party that says Odom is at fault is not the same group that says that the team can't win without him. :roll:


Make no mistake! This man is to never be mistaken for a supporter of anybody beyond Kobe Bryant...

Sorry dr.z they didn't know....



One thing about LG, we got more haters amongst us than what exist in Sac and, San Antonio probably combined! Seriously I would love to take a roll call!


Dont forget your category. You root for the name on the back of the jersey not the front. Those are the worst fans.


bounty, one thing for sure is that everybody knows about my love for the Lakers. You think that everybody can say the same for you?
At times you sound like a troll dude...

I fully support my team and definiteyl enjoy getting into hater's faces. When have you been on the positive end of a post? 8) In fact the only reason you post is to make derragatory remarks about LO...
You're contributions are no better than that of another clubs fan so, really now, who could be mistaken as not being a Laker fan?
You sound about like I would if I was on A Spurs site talking about Rick Barry's kid!

Nah your a player fan not team fan. You can tell. When you say "consistency is overated" about a player. You are not a fan of the team. That statement is a slap in the face of the lakers Org. Its cool.


Sure did say it. I get sick and tired of hearing people pin that stupid term on LO when up until recently the only player that was considered consistent was Kobe and LO. Now Mihm has become pretty solid. LO can be counted on nightly to board and look for people and score when the opporunity presents itself. That is what he does. LO's game is predicated on guys like Smush, Kwame, Cook etc hitting shots and, working the triangle in effect so that LO can do his job. THIS is why I get sick of the dumbass remarks being thrown at nobody but LO about being consistent.With the exception of Mihm every guy on the Laker squad is here today and gone tomorrow. If LO just sat in the post while somebody else fed him or did nothing but look for his shot you folks wouldn't have ammo for your ignorant argument.

Since you don't understand what is going on out on the floor is why I made that statement. You don't play no ball so, you have no idea what is happening. Like others who have nothing more than television watching skills and, the use of a forum for a weapon they start screaming about things that challenge their collective intelligence.

Here is another for you bounty since you like collecting my rhetoric!

Excellance does not require perfection!

8)

Nah. You know LO has been inconsistent all year and last. His whole career. You are not a Lakers fan. Or else that statement would never have been said. the one aspect to all GOOd players games is consistency.
You prefer LO over the Lakers. its cool. "Excellance does not require perfection!" No but striving for perfection is what creates excellence. Its OK to be an LO fan and not a lakers fan. Dont trip. Like you give Lo excuses I give The COLORS excuses. Lakers > LO At least your guy is making mad cash. Thats should make you happy. You Lose Excepting Lo's inconsistency is in direct contrast to the TEAM

BTW- I've dabbled in BBall. Not my thing though, I grew up on the beach and prefer Volleyball. BBall is not hard to understand, we all grew up playing it. Watching LO, it also is not hard to understand why he is avg. Sorry.


Sorry is right... I knew it... Later dude. I knew you didn't have a clue as to what you were talking about! I had a feeling... Good day dude...


Geezuzzuuusssss that explains everything!
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 2:39 pm    Post subject:

THE_SHOES wrote:
What next bounty "I know you are but what am I?"

Gimme a break.. What are you 12 all of a sudden? Lets talk hoops or I'll just leave you and that 40point machine character alone as I'll figure you're one in the same...

I'm giving you my position and, all you can do is say that I worship Odom? Where is that at? I thought you were sharper than that. Offer me something beside that one argument of Odoms whole career which changed enough in Miami to make what you're saying an out and, out lie anyway. Lots of players changed after leaving the Clipps and you know it.You need to change that or, update it because you're making absolutely no sense...

Incidentally I used to get tired of people workingFisher, George, and, Sasha too... So if you can't see a fan who thinks all of his Lakers are sacred you're pretty blind...

The single most important aspect to an athletes game is Consistency. Period. If you dont have that then you are just another guy. Talent is great, but if you dont utilize it ALWAYS what good is it? You except LO's inconsistency. In fact you think consistency is overated. Our teams BIGGEST problem is....................CONSISTENCY. We have played great D some games bad others. What does that make us? .500. You are more concerned with LO being on the team than you are the team flourishing. Thats fine, but unfortunate. Its not about you and me. its about LO. Miami? that team was .500 with a quickley blossoming WADE and CARON. A defensive stud in EJ. They still only managed to be right around 500. Out of 7yrs, you can only look to one, which really wasnt all that anyway. Again you failed to make a case as to why you jock LO. Being a laker is not enough. Putting your soul on the line for the colors is. he doesnt Stop putting LO against guys like sasha and the Like. BTW- Slow your roll, life is good, no need to get frustrated.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 2:48 pm    Post subject:

bounty wrote:
THE_SHOES wrote:
What next bounty "I know you are but what am I?"

Gimme a break.. What are you 12 all of a sudden? Lets talk hoops or I'll just leave you and that 40point machine character alone as I'll figure you're one in the same...

I'm giving you my position and, all you can do is say that I worship Odom? Where is that at? I thought you were sharper than that. Offer me something beside that one argument of Odoms whole career which changed enough in Miami to make what you're saying an out and, out lie anyway. Lots of players changed after leaving the Clipps and you know it.You need to change that or, update it because you're making absolutely no sense...

Incidentally I used to get tired of people workingFisher, George, and, Sasha too... So if you can't see a fan who thinks all of his Lakers are sacred you're pretty blind...

The single most important aspect to an athletes game is Consistency. Period. If you dont have that then you are just another guy. Talent is great, but if you dont utilize it ALWAYS what good is it? You except LO's inconsistency. In fact you think consistency is overated. Our teams BIGGEST problem is....................CONSISTENCY. We have played great D some games bad others. What does that make us? .500. You are more concerned with LO being on the team than you are the team flourishing. Thats fine, but unfortunate. Its not about you and me. its about LO. Miami? that team was .500 with a quickley blossoming WADE and CARON. A defensive stud in EJ. They still only managed to be right around 500. Out of 7yrs, you can only look to one, which really wasnt all that anyway. Again you failed to make a case as to why you jock LO. Being a laker is not enough. Putting your soul on the line for the colors is. he doesnt Stop putting LO against guys like sasha and the Like.


If you talked about anything else there would be no reason to even talk about LO... I'm through with you anyway. All you do is come in daily and complain about LO. I think a lot of folks just ignore you. I was just stupid enough to engage you and, Game (bleep) who bring nothing more to this board than hate for LO. So, as of this moment I guess I won't be a LO jocker anymore because as long as I'm not talking to you I guess that problem kind of dissapears. Other people have other topics concerning the Lakers that are proabably more interesting anyway...
You, Game (bleep) and that 40point machine have a good time together. You all deserve each other!! I suspect as the season rolls along you'll all become pretty isolated in your miseries anyway...
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"According to ESPN.com's conference projections, the Lakers will finish 12th in the West, which prompted Bryant to tweet earlier this offseason, "12th I see.."


Last edited by THE_SHOES on Mon Feb 06, 2006 2:51 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 2:49 pm    Post subject:

THE_SHOES wrote:
bounty wrote:
THE_SHOES wrote:
What next bounty "I know you are but what am I?"

Gimme a break.. What are you 12 all of a sudden? Lets talk hoops or I'll just leave you and that 40point machine character alone as I'll figure you're one in the same...

I'm giving you my position and, all you can do is say that I worship Odom? Where is that at? I thought you were sharper than that. Offer me something beside that one argument of Odoms whole career which changed enough in Miami to make what you're saying an out and, out lie anyway. Lots of players changed after leaving the Clipps and you know it.You need to change that or, update it because you're making absolutely no sense...

Incidentally I used to get tired of people workingFisher, George, and, Sasha too... So if you can't see a fan who thinks all of his Lakers are sacred you're pretty blind...

The single most important aspect to an athletes game is Consistency. Period. If you dont have that then you are just another guy. Talent is great, but if you dont utilize it ALWAYS what good is it? You except LO's inconsistency. In fact you think consistency is overated. Our teams BIGGEST problem is....................CONSISTENCY. We have played great D some games bad others. What does that make us? .500. You are more concerned with LO being on the team than you are the team flourishing. Thats fine, but unfortunate. Its not about you and me. its about LO. Miami? that team was .500 with a quickley blossoming WADE and CARON. A defensive stud in EJ. They still only managed to be right around 500. Out of 7yrs, you can only look to one, which really wasnt all that anyway. Again you failed to make a case as to why you jock LO. Being a laker is not enough. Putting your soul on the line for the colors is. he doesnt Stop putting LO against guys like sasha and the Like.


If you talked about anything else there would be no reason to even talk about LO... I'm through with you anyway. All you do is come in daily and complain about LO. I think a lot of folks just ignore you. I was just stupid enough to engage you and Game (bleep) who bring nothing more to this board than hate for LO so, as of this moment I guess I won't be a LO jocker anymore because as long as I'm not talking to you I guess that prpblem kind of dissapears. Other people have other topics concerning the Lakers that are proabably more interesting anyway...
You, Game (bleep) and that 40point machine have a good time together. I suspect as the season rolls along you'll become pretty isolated in your misery anyway...

go lakers.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 3:02 pm    Post subject:

bounty wrote:
THE_SHOES wrote:
bounty wrote:
THE_SHOES wrote:
What next bounty "I know you are but what am I?"

Gimme a break.. What are you 12 all of a sudden? Lets talk hoops or I'll just leave you and that 40point machine character alone as I'll figure you're one in the same...

I'm giving you my position and, all you can do is say that I worship Odom? Where is that at? I thought you were sharper than that. Offer me something beside that one argument of Odoms whole career which changed enough in Miami to make what you're saying an out and, out lie anyway. Lots of players changed after leaving the Clipps and you know it.You need to change that or, update it because you're making absolutely no sense...

Incidentally I used to get tired of people workingFisher, George, and, Sasha too... So if you can't see a fan who thinks all of his Lakers are sacred you're pretty blind...

The single most important aspect to an athletes game is Consistency. Period. If you dont have that then you are just another guy. Talent is great, but if you dont utilize it ALWAYS what good is it? You except LO's inconsistency. In fact you think consistency is overated. Our teams BIGGEST problem is....................CONSISTENCY. We have played great D some games bad others. What does that make us? .500. You are more concerned with LO being on the team than you are the team flourishing. Thats fine, but unfortunate. Its not about you and me. its about LO. Miami? that team was .500 with a quickley blossoming WADE and CARON. A defensive stud in EJ. They still only managed to be right around 500. Out of 7yrs, you can only look to one, which really wasnt all that anyway. Again you failed to make a case as to why you jock LO. Being a laker is not enough. Putting your soul on the line for the colors is. he doesnt Stop putting LO against guys like sasha and the Like.


If you talked about anything else there would be no reason to even talk about LO... I'm through with you anyway. All you do is come in daily and complain about LO. I think a lot of folks just ignore you. I was just stupid enough to engage you and Game (bleep) who bring nothing more to this board than hate for LO so, as of this moment I guess I won't be a LO jocker anymore because as long as I'm not talking to you I guess that prpblem kind of dissapears. Other people have other topics concerning the Lakers that are proabably more interesting anyway...
You, Game (bleep) and that 40point machine have a good time together. I suspect as the season rolls along you'll become pretty isolated in your misery anyway...

go lakers.

Does that include Odom?
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 3:04 pm    Post subject:

LakersRGolden wrote:
bounty wrote:
THE_SHOES wrote:
bounty wrote:
THE_SHOES wrote:
What next bounty "I know you are but what am I?"

Gimme a break.. What are you 12 all of a sudden? Lets talk hoops or I'll just leave you and that 40point machine character alone as I'll figure you're one in the same...

I'm giving you my position and, all you can do is say that I worship Odom? Where is that at? I thought you were sharper than that. Offer me something beside that one argument of Odoms whole career which changed enough in Miami to make what you're saying an out and, out lie anyway. Lots of players changed after leaving the Clipps and you know it.You need to change that or, update it because you're making absolutely no sense...

Incidentally I used to get tired of people workingFisher, George, and, Sasha too... So if you can't see a fan who thinks all of his Lakers are sacred you're pretty blind...

The single most important aspect to an athletes game is Consistency. Period. If you dont have that then you are just another guy. Talent is great, but if you dont utilize it ALWAYS what good is it? You except LO's inconsistency. In fact you think consistency is overated. Our teams BIGGEST problem is....................CONSISTENCY. We have played great D some games bad others. What does that make us? .500. You are more concerned with LO being on the team than you are the team flourishing. Thats fine, but unfortunate. Its not about you and me. its about LO. Miami? that team was .500 with a quickley blossoming WADE and CARON. A defensive stud in EJ. They still only managed to be right around 500. Out of 7yrs, you can only look to one, which really wasnt all that anyway. Again you failed to make a case as to why you jock LO. Being a laker is not enough. Putting your soul on the line for the colors is. he doesnt Stop putting LO against guys like sasha and the Like.


If you talked about anything else there would be no reason to even talk about LO... I'm through with you anyway. All you do is come in daily and complain about LO. I think a lot of folks just ignore you. I was just stupid enough to engage you and Game (bleep) who bring nothing more to this board than hate for LO so, as of this moment I guess I won't be a LO jocker anymore because as long as I'm not talking to you I guess that prpblem kind of dissapears. Other people have other topics concerning the Lakers that are proabably more interesting anyway...
You, Game (bleep) and that 40point machine have a good time together. I suspect as the season rolls along you'll become pretty isolated in your misery anyway...

go lakers.

Does that include Odom?

Doesnt matter.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 4:13 pm    Post subject: lets stay positive

it did take the Lakers sometime after the magic time was done to rebuild the team and choose different player patterns until Shap and Kobe arrived to add with Phil and the others to create a unity. This time it’s a little different, we do have Kobe and good future player if he can stay healthy and does not turn to another Bender. And with a great teacher like Phil it will make a lot of difference.

I think that the pistons are not good just because of brown’s D but also caz of Rick the old couch, and that’s the main reason when Indiana players Detroit its always close when the Indiana response to Ricks directions and commands caz he knows the team. so what am saying is, even if the LAL loss Phil after his 3 years contract, if he can build Bynum like he did with shaq and show him the right response to game situations and still have Kobe playing "Hopefully" healthy, then its a positive sign.
LAL will add another player no doubt, its matter of time. Am sure after the time of Magic and worthy Fans were very frustrated with the situation. Imagine we had Kobe and shaq and other supporting guys yet still got swept by Spurs, I may be repeating my self. but again am sure things will take some time and this whole situation will turn to be just memories and LAL will pickup, don’t forget i think LAL is the highest team that have played playoff series in NBA.

I know the fact that Odom can be over paid, i said it in another post. but the reality is the reality and things will not change until Phil or Buss chooses to, so lets stike with the team with the good and the bad and hope our patince will payoff
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