These Scott defenders have to be some of his relatives or something geez lol
It's mostly just Drifts doing his same old shtick again.
why, because I don't think letting Russell commit 15 turnovers in 36 minutes is a good thing?
if Byron Scott allows one guy that much leeway, he better give that same leeway to everybody, or else he'll lose the WHOLE team. Coaches should always look fair, favoritism will RUIN the entire team Scott is trying to develop. Some may even become resentful to Russell if Scott allows that kind of thing.
It's weird to see most only concerned about how much Russell eat and want him to more and more, without consideration from other guys on the team. Bewildering to say the least.
Scott needs to look after the whole TEAM, not just ONE guy.
The reason you're seeing a focus on Dlo is because he was the #2 pick. I'm not sure why you feel like everything has to be equal. Some players are better than others. Some are believed to have more potential.
I think the reason you're seeing a focus on Russell is because he is believed to have the highest potential of the young guys. That's why you don't see folks clamoring for more shots for Sacre. It's not arbitrary. The Lakers basically tanked to get Dlo so it's only that they, and the fans, want Dlo, perhaps even more so than the others, to be put in a position to maximize the realization of that potential.
there is more to developing a young guy than just throwing him out in the wild and hope he survives. That is a double edged sword; maybe he survives and we see him revealed a hero, or he dies and is never heard of again.
But Scott is not going the lazy route, and is taking Russell's development in stride, based on his assessment. Besides, Russell is barely past half a season goodness sake...
Rather than focus on minutes, or how many plays he gets or how many shots he takes or whether he has the keys to the car or not, Russell needs to focus on the more important things of being a pro like working hard, being a good teammate, listening to the coach, playing with the team, and most of all, accountability. Because after all those, minutes and plays and shots will follow.
You're right. Throwing a guy out to the wild comes with risk. But so does keeping a young guy in a bubble he's never able to break out of.
The key is balance. And a good coach will find that balance. I'm just not seeing that from Byron, are you? I mean, what specifically, are you seeing from Byron that is deliberately being undertaken in order to maximize DLO's potential?
We don't run any schemes out there for DLO, and when he is out there, he's tasked to give up the ball early and go run to the corner.
Do you think the reason we're doing that is for KFT perhaps?
Russell is playing under a system, and majority of his shots are within the system - which I am happy with. He goes out of the system sometimes, but it's at an acceptable rate, I have no complaints about it...
actually, I have very little complaints with how Russell has played the past month. He's struggled, but that's just probably the wall hitting him a little.
I just don't agree with McClean plain and simple, and I think Byron is right. I don't think throwing him into the wolves is the right way to go. I can see Byron giving him more minutes in due time. But I don't really see the urgency though. _________________ "Now, if life is coffee, then the jobs, money & position in society are the cups. They are just tools to hold & contain life, but the quality of life doesn't change. Sometimes, by concentrating only on the cup, we fail to enjoy the coffee in it."
Russell averages 2.5 turnovers per game in 26.9 minutes, but I for one am very certain that he'd commit 12.5 turnovers in the 8.1 minutes between 26.9 & 35 minutes.
#soundmathematics _________________ Music is my medicine
Russell averages 2.5 turnovers per game in 26.9 minutes, but I for one am very certain that he'd commit 12.5 turnovers in the 8.1 minutes between 26.9 & 35 minutes.
Joined: 19 Apr 2003 Posts: 22850 Location: La Jolla, San Diego
Posted: Tue Feb 02, 2016 11:40 pm Post subject:
Vancouver Fan wrote:
GoldenThroat wrote:
Russell averages 2.5 turnovers per game in 26.9 minutes, but I for one am very certain that he'd commit 12.5 turnovers in the 8.1 minutes between 26.9 & 35 minutes.
#soundmathematics
Well, Byron certainly knows his math... "I didn't want Lin to foul him until the 10 second mark because there isn't much difference between 20 seconds and 10 seconds."
These Scott defenders have to be some of his relatives or something geez lol
It's mostly just Drifts doing his same old shtick again.
why, because I don't think letting Russell commit 15 turnovers in 36 minutes is a good thing?
if Byron Scott allows one guy that much leeway, he better give that same leeway to everybody, or else he'll lose the WHOLE team. Coaches should always look fair, favoritism will RUIN the entire team Scott is trying to develop. Some may even become resentful to Russell if Scott allows that kind of thing.
It's weird to see most only concerned about how much Russell eat and want him to more and more, without consideration from other guys on the team. Bewildering to say the least.
Scott needs to look after the whole TEAM, not just ONE guy.
The reason you're seeing a focus on Dlo is because he was the #2 pick. I'm not sure why you feel like everything has to be equal. Some players are better than others. Some are believed to have more potential.
I think the reason you're seeing a focus on Russell is because he is believed to have the highest potential of the young guys. That's why you don't see folks clamoring for more shots for Sacre. It's not arbitrary. The Lakers basically tanked to get Dlo so it's only that they, and the fans, want Dlo, perhaps even more so than the others, to be put in a position to maximize the realization of that potential.
there is more to developing a young guy than just throwing him out in the wild and hope he survives. That is a double edged sword; maybe he survives and we see him revealed a hero, or he dies and is never heard of again.
But Scott is not going the lazy route, and is taking Russell's development in stride, based on his assessment. Besides, Russell is barely past half a season goodness sake...
Rather than focus on minutes, or how many plays he gets or how many shots he takes or whether he has the keys to the car or not, Russell needs to focus on the more important things of being a pro like working hard, being a good teammate, listening to the coach, playing with the team, and most of all, accountability. Because after all those, minutes and plays and shots will follow.
You're right. Throwing a guy out to the wild comes with risk. But so does keeping a young guy in a bubble he's never able to break out of.
The key is balance. And a good coach will find that balance. I'm just not seeing that from Byron, are you? I mean, what specifically, are you seeing from Byron that is deliberately being undertaken in order to maximize DLO's potential?
We don't run any schemes out there for DLO, and when he is out there, he's tasked to give up the ball early and go run to the corner.
Do you think the reason we're doing that is for KFT perhaps?
Russell is playing under a system, and majority of his shots are within the system - which I am happy with. He goes out of the system sometimes, but it's at an acceptable rate, I have no complaints about it...
actually, I have very little complaints with how Russell has played the past month. He's struggled, but that's just probably the wall hitting him a little.
I just don't agree with McClean plain and simple, and I think Byron is right. I don't think throwing him into the wolves is the right way to go. I can see Byron giving him more minutes in due time. But I don't really see the urgency though.
The problem here is you're buying into Byron's words and ignoring his actions. And that's always been the conundrum of Byron: he is a walking contradiction. He talks of developing Russell slowly, which before the season started I agreed with. But then why make him the starter to open the season?
In the "should Russell start or come off the bench" thread, I was in the minority when I said he should come off the bench. I reasoned that if he outplays the guy ahead of him, you can easily move him into the starting unit. But if he struggles, he could lose his confidence, and then demoting him to bench would not only embarrass him and become a big media story (which it was), but it could even demoralize him. Byron did exactly what I feared. He drew attention to Russell and then he tore him down. Just awful and totally unneccesary. And he talks about protecting Russell? Bull. Again, walking contradiction.
Byron is the living example of how NOT to develop young talent. He says the right things but his actions are complete opposite.
These Scott defenders have to be some of his relatives or something geez lol
It's mostly just Drifts doing his same old shtick again.
why, because I don't think letting Russell commit 15 turnovers in 36 minutes is a good thing?
if Byron Scott allows one guy that much leeway, he better give that same leeway to everybody, or else he'll lose the WHOLE team. Coaches should always look fair, favoritism will RUIN the entire team Scott is trying to develop. Some may even become resentful to Russell if Scott allows that kind of thing.
It's weird to see most only concerned about how much Russell eat and want him to more and more, without consideration from other guys on the team. Bewildering to say the least.
Scott needs to look after the whole TEAM, not just ONE guy.
The reason you're seeing a focus on Dlo is because he was the #2 pick. I'm not sure why you feel like everything has to be equal. Some players are better than others. Some are believed to have more potential.
I think the reason you're seeing a focus on Russell is because he is believed to have the highest potential of the young guys. That's why you don't see folks clamoring for more shots for Sacre. It's not arbitrary. The Lakers basically tanked to get Dlo so it's only that they, and the fans, want Dlo, perhaps even more so than the others, to be put in a position to maximize the realization of that potential.
there is more to developing a young guy than just throwing him out in the wild and hope he survives. That is a double edged sword; maybe he survives and we see him revealed a hero, or he dies and is never heard of again.
But Scott is not going the lazy route, and is taking Russell's development in stride, based on his assessment. Besides, Russell is barely past half a season goodness sake...
Rather than focus on minutes, or how many plays he gets or how many shots he takes or whether he has the keys to the car or not, Russell needs to focus on the more important things of being a pro like working hard, being a good teammate, listening to the coach, playing with the team, and most of all, accountability. Because after all those, minutes and plays and shots will follow.
You're right. Throwing a guy out to the wild comes with risk. But so does keeping a young guy in a bubble he's never able to break out of.
The key is balance. And a good coach will find that balance. I'm just not seeing that from Byron, are you? I mean, what specifically, are you seeing from Byron that is deliberately being undertaken in order to maximize DLO's potential?
We don't run any schemes out there for DLO, and when he is out there, he's tasked to give up the ball early and go run to the corner.
Do you think the reason we're doing that is for KFT perhaps?
Russell is playing under a system, and majority of his shots are within the system - which I am happy with. He goes out of the system sometimes, but it's at an acceptable rate, I have no complaints about it...
actually, I have very little complaints with how Russell has played the past month. He's struggled, but that's just probably the wall hitting him a little.
I just don't agree with McClean plain and simple, and I think Byron is right. I don't think throwing him into the wolves is the right way to go. I can see Byron giving him more minutes in due time. But I don't really see the urgency though.
The problem here is you're buying into Byron's words and ignoring his actions. And that's always been the conundrum of Byron: he is a walking contradiction. He talks of developing Russell slowly, which before the season started I agreed with. But then why make him the starter to open the season?
In the "should Russell start or come off the bench" thread, I was in the minority when I said he should come off the bench. I reasoned that if he outplays the guy ahead of him, you can easily move him into the starting unit. But if he struggles, he could lose his confidence, and then demoting him to bench would not only embarrass him and become a big media story (which it was), but it could even demoralize him. Byron did exactly what I feared. He drew attention to Russell and then he tore him down. Just awful and totally unneccesary. And he talks about protecting Russell? Bull. Again, walking contradiction.
Byron is the living example of how NOT to develop young talent. He says the right things but his actions are complete opposite.
^THIS, DLO should have been playing off the bench at the beginning of the season, if he prospers, then he could move to the starting line up. All that talk about having him "earn it" is BS. Why did he start him in the first place? And tbh, he was not even playing that bad as a starter. I think the JC/Lou backcourt is way worse.
These Scott defenders have to be some of his relatives or something geez lol
It's mostly just Drifts doing his same old shtick again.
why, because I don't think letting Russell commit 15 turnovers in 36 minutes is a good thing?
if Byron Scott allows one guy that much leeway, he better give that same leeway to everybody, or else he'll lose the WHOLE team. Coaches should always look fair, favoritism will RUIN the entire team Scott is trying to develop. Some may even become resentful to Russell if Scott allows that kind of thing.
It's weird to see most only concerned about how much Russell eat and want him to more and more, without consideration from other guys on the team. Bewildering to say the least.
Scott needs to look after the whole TEAM, not just ONE guy.
The reason you're seeing a focus on Dlo is because he was the #2 pick. I'm not sure why you feel like everything has to be equal. Some players are better than others. Some are believed to have more potential.
I think the reason you're seeing a focus on Russell is because he is believed to have the highest potential of the young guys. That's why you don't see folks clamoring for more shots for Sacre. It's not arbitrary. The Lakers basically tanked to get Dlo so it's only that they, and the fans, want Dlo, perhaps even more so than the others, to be put in a position to maximize the realization of that potential.
there is more to developing a young guy than just throwing him out in the wild and hope he survives. That is a double edged sword; maybe he survives and we see him revealed a hero, or he dies and is never heard of again.
But Scott is not going the lazy route, and is taking Russell's development in stride, based on his assessment. Besides, Russell is barely past half a season goodness sake...
Rather than focus on minutes, or how many plays he gets or how many shots he takes or whether he has the keys to the car or not, Russell needs to focus on the more important things of being a pro like working hard, being a good teammate, listening to the coach, playing with the team, and most of all, accountability. Because after all those, minutes and plays and shots will follow.
You're right. Throwing a guy out to the wild comes with risk. But so does keeping a young guy in a bubble he's never able to break out of.
The key is balance. And a good coach will find that balance. I'm just not seeing that from Byron, are you? I mean, what specifically, are you seeing from Byron that is deliberately being undertaken in order to maximize DLO's potential?
We don't run any schemes out there for DLO, and when he is out there, he's tasked to give up the ball early and go run to the corner.
Do you think the reason we're doing that is for KFT perhaps?
Russell is playing under a system, and majority of his shots are within the system - which I am happy with. He goes out of the system sometimes, but it's at an acceptable rate, I have no complaints about it...
actually, I have very little complaints with how Russell has played the past month. He's struggled, but that's just probably the wall hitting him a little.
I just don't agree with McClean plain and simple, and I think Byron is right. I don't think throwing him into the wolves is the right way to go. I can see Byron giving him more minutes in due time. But I don't really see the urgency though.
You're happy with the system?! Seriously? I've said it before, but this system is producing the lowest assist leader since Elvis Presley was #1 on the billboard charts. That's 60 years since any NBA team has had an assist leader with as few as ours has and we're in the era of ball movement.
Applying credit or blame on a coach is difficult. It's impossible to say for certain if a coach is directly and solely responsible for a player's success or struggles. So if you like or don't like what a coach is doing, I think you also have to look at everything else he is doing. If he's getting the most out of players, if the team is playing better than expected, if the group is better than the sum of its parts, then I think a coach deserves some benefit of the doubt. But beyond DLO -- what specific thing that Byron does would you say is "smart"? Because frankly, I see nothing that he does as being particularly smart and so for me, I find it hard to believe that a guy who is doing essentially nothing "smart" is doing everything smart with DLO.
They are not playing within a "system." They run the same 6 or 7 plays over and over again.
Pardon my ignorance, but what's that play they usually run for Young where he cuts into the paint then runs out to the top of the key off a screen for a jumper? It seems like we run it a lot (sometimes for Lou as well) with very little success, usually ending in a contested fadeaway.
They are not playing within a "system." They run the same 6 or 7 plays over and over again.
And most if not all end with...
ISO!!!
Seriously. They just take turns. One guy tries to go iso, if he doesn't have it, he gives it up to someone else near the elbow and then he goes iso. lol
They are not playing within a "system." They run the same 6 or 7 plays over and over again.
Pardon my ignorance, but what's that play they usually run for Young where he cuts into the paint then runs out to the top of the key off a screen for a jumper? It seems like we run it a lot (sometimes for Lou as well) with very little success, usually ending in a contested fadeaway.
I would venture we may lead the league in most contested shots and iso finishes.
That's 1990s basketball. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals
They are not playing within a "system." They run the same 6 or 7 plays over and over again.
Pardon my ignorance, but what's that play they usually run for Young where he cuts into the paint then runs out to the top of the key off a screen for a jumper? It seems like we run it a lot (sometimes for Lou as well) with very little success, usually ending in a contested fadeaway.
I would venture we may lead the league in most contested shots and iso finishes.
That's 1990s basketball.
You'd be close. In shots where the nearest defender is within 4 feet or less, we're ranked 3rd with 59% of shots taken.
Milwaukee is 1st with 65%, Raptors second at 60%.
Last teams are Atlanta, Clippers, Wizards at 48, 48 and 47 percent respectively.
I don't think drifts is saying he's happy with Byron's system; I think he's saying he's happy that Russell is playing within Byron's system.
And what many people are saying is that the system implemented is awful for Russell and most guys on the team. As GT said above, they really only run a few basic sets that create very little offense then it turns into stagnant ISO basketball. I don't even think it qualifies as a system but if it does it's a bad system to teach ball movement and team basketball to a young team. That's what Byron is here to do. We are frustrated by much more than just his minutes.
Also, Some here need to look up what hyberbole is. McLean never actually meant Russell would have 15 TO but that's turned into the basis of your argument.
I think this thread is about Don MacLean's suggestion about how Scott should handle Russell, to let him commit 15 turnovers and still play him 35 minutes, without any accountability at all.
So 17 pages in you're still clinging to this literally? What if he had said DLO should be aggressive and try to go out and score 100 points every night? Would you take that literally?
So just so we're all on the same page here: no one is suggesting that DLO average 15 turnovers per game and not have any accountability. It was merely a suggestion that a player be allowed to make mistakes while on the job. How does that not compute for you?
But yeah, so what if he did commit 15 turnovers one night? Do you think he'd do that again? Do you think he'd be happy with himself? Of course not. He would learn. Especially with a coach that wasn't stuck in prehistoric times. I mean we could just ignore the whole Russell thing and we've still got the fact that Byron is not NBA coach material.
Anyway, please proceed to continue to beat the dead horse of the 15 turnovers like it was a literal suggestion....
I've been around a loooong time on this board. This nonsense about Russell is really ruining the site. I love debating and the Lakers but the blatant misuse of stats and facts to fit ones disdain and agenda is boring. I don't quite understand the idea behind this. Almost anyone that reads Don Mclean's quites understand what he meant. Take the shackles off Russell and Byron is a poor coach. What's so difficult?? Byron is historically bad. Lots of basketball minds see that. He's a relic and can't get out of his own way. The complete opposite of a visionary. In regards to Russell, yes we want our rookies to be brought along and given the best chance at success. Is that playing him 27 minutes and throwing him under the bus every turn?? Is that holding him accountable for all his failures while ignoring his accomplishments?? I for one, don't see many teams draft a player 2nd and make him the back up PG to a gunner 6th man. Lou is a scorer. That's all. His deficiencies trump DLO. Yea he can draw fouls and score. That's it. I digress. Bottom line here is certain posters love to be the fat kid with the football in this debate. It's very tiresome. Don't dig your heels in the ground so deep on an issue that only you agree with. That tells you a lot. _________________ You mystified at what exists inside
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
Posted: Wed Feb 03, 2016 9:06 am Post subject:
Vancouver Fan wrote:
GoldenThroat wrote:
Russell averages 2.5 turnovers per game in 26.9 minutes, but I for one am very certain that he'd commit 12.5 turnovers in the 8.1 minutes between 26.9 & 35 minutes.
#soundmathematics
By average, it would take 161.4 minutes for DLO to get 15 turnovers. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
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