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laker4life
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 Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2016 1:35 am Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | laker4life wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | OdomGrab wrote: | I have been wondering why this guy did not bring back PJ.
Can you imagine
GM: Phil Jackson
HC: Luke Walton
I also have a issues with people complaining about PJ trying to take over
the lakers and hiring Mike D was somehow Jerry's decision. Jerry Buss
probably thought JIM would be thrown out soon after he was gone if
PJ was around long enough since PJ is PJ.
Protecting JIM, if thats what he was thinking will only hurt us in the long
run. |
The reason was Dr. Buss. He never liked PJ, he thought he was a snake, and didn't want him in the Laker FO. Even Jeannie towed that company line. Jim did offer Phil a consulting gig, but Phil wanted more. |
Personally, what is wrong with having a snake in the FO if the team is winning championships or at least competing for championships?
I mean why does it matter if PJ or whoever was even an (bleep).
If he is able to put together a team that competes for championships, I would think ownership would not care.
Look at Knicks, they just want to win so they gave Phil the control that he needed.
If the Lakers was about winning, they probably could have done the same thing.
When Phil came the first time, Jerry West did not like Phil but Jerry Buss wanted to win.
They could have done the same thing. |
Only Dr. Buss didn't do the same thing, he did the opposite which was to keep Phil as far away from him family as he possibly could. Do you have a family? Would you actively seek out someone that would tear them apart? If so, thankfully Dr. Buss is smarter than you. |
No need to get so personal and question my intelligence.
Why should I thank Dr. Buss for making the team worse?
I am a passionate Laker fan who wants the Lakers to succeed.
If Dr. Buss’s priority was family first over the success of Lakers, he is correct in getting rid of Phil.
However, if his priority was to maintain the success of the Lakers, Dr. Buss appears to be an idiot.
If Phil or whoever were more qualified than Jim Buss and was able to make better decisions which would help the Lakers compete for a championship, I want that other person.
That is the bottom line for me.
If Dr. Buss kept Phil away because he was a snake and Phil would tear apart the family, that statement is pretty ridiculous.
If Phil was more qualified, Dr. Buss should have gone with the qualified person.
Seriously, what could Phil realistic do to tear apart the family? Phil is already dating Jim's sister. Phil and Jim do not really get along. Who cares if Phil came in and took over the organization and kicked out Jim. Jim would still have a life. He would remain owner of the team and the family would still be a family. In fact, the family actually might be closer.
It is pretty dysfunctional now.
If Jim cared about the Laker and its fans, he should simply find the most qualified individual to turn this team around. |
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Hector the Pup
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| Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2016 9:13 am Post subject: |
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| What exactly has Phil done to warrant consideration for running a team? I must have missed something, because the last time I checked, the Knicks are a lottery team with a losing record. |
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laker4life
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| Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2016 9:27 am Post subject: |
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| Hector the Pup wrote: | | What exactly has Phil done to warrant consideration for running a team? I must have missed something, because the last time I checked, the Knicks are a lottery team with a losing record. |
What has Phil done?
Well he coached 11 teams to a championship.
He has coached 13 teams to the Finals.
He was a member of the Knicks. He coached the Bulls and Lakers. Therefore, he has been involved with three premier teams in the NBA.
He coached some of the greatest players in the NBA. These players continue to respect him.
He is a Hall of Famer.
I would imagine that he is highly respected in the NBA community and has some insight because of his extensive experience.
Is he qualified to be an executive? Only time will tell.
Isiah Thomas became an executive and did crappy.
Danny Ainge and Larry Bird are doing pretty well. |
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Hector the Pup
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| Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2016 9:39 am Post subject: |
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| laker4life wrote: | | Hector the Pup wrote: | | What exactly has Phil done to warrant consideration for running a team? I must have missed something, because the last time I checked, the Knicks are a lottery team with a losing record. |
What has Phil done?
Well he coached 11 teams to a championship.
He has coached 13 teams to the Finals.
He was a member of the Knicks. He coached the Bulls and Lakers. Therefore, he has been involved with three premier teams in the NBA.
He coached some of the greatest players in the NBA. These players continue to respect him.
He is a Hall of Famer.
I would imagine that he is highly respected in the NBA community and has some insight because of his extensive experience.
Is he qualified to be an executive? Only time will tell.
Isiah Thomas became an executive and did crappy.
Danny Ainge and Larry Bird are doing pretty well. |
So you have no reason other than his success in an almost unrelated field for your opinion. |
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K28
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| Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2016 11:25 am Post subject: |
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| Hector the Pup wrote: | | laker4life wrote: | | Hector the Pup wrote: | | What exactly has Phil done to warrant consideration for running a team? I must have missed something, because the last time I checked, the Knicks are a lottery team with a losing record. |
What has Phil done?
Well he coached 11 teams to a championship.
He has coached 13 teams to the Finals.
He was a member of the Knicks. He coached the Bulls and Lakers. Therefore, he has been involved with three premier teams in the NBA.
He coached some of the greatest players in the NBA. These players continue to respect him.
He is a Hall of Famer.
I would imagine that he is highly respected in the NBA community and has some insight because of his extensive experience.
Is he qualified to be an executive? Only time will tell.
Isiah Thomas became an executive and did crappy.
Danny Ainge and Larry Bird are doing pretty well. |
So you have no reason other than his success in an almost unrelated field for your opinion. |
Apply the same logic to Jim Buss. |
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Laker_Dynasty_01
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| Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2016 11:30 am Post subject: |
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Phil did take Porzingis over the more popular Mudiay and Winslow. Phil also kept his superstar without going over market value, and while he dumped Smith, Shumpert, and Hardaway Jr., he still put the Knicks in position for a strong 2016 offseason.
This summer will be his first real test, competing with Riley and others for LeBron's services, while Jimbo weighs the pros and cons of a front-loaded Hibbert extension. |
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laker4life
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| Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2016 12:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Hector the Pup wrote: | | laker4life wrote: | | Hector the Pup wrote: | | What exactly has Phil done to warrant consideration for running a team? I must have missed something, because the last time I checked, the Knicks are a lottery team with a losing record. |
What has Phil done?
Well he coached 11 teams to a championship.
He has coached 13 teams to the Finals.
He was a member of the Knicks. He coached the Bulls and Lakers. Therefore, he has been involved with three premier teams in the NBA.
He coached some of the greatest players in the NBA. These players continue to respect him.
He is a Hall of Famer.
I would imagine that he is highly respected in the NBA community and has some insight because of his extensive experience.
Is he qualified to be an executive? Only time will tell.
Isiah Thomas became an executive and did crappy.
Danny Ainge and Larry Bird are doing pretty well. |
So you have no reason other than his success in an almost unrelated field for your opinion. |
Yes, that is my opinion. And what is the problem with that?
People who are successful in one area often have success in other areas.
People do it all of the time. Before Jerry West became the GM, he was a successful player and coach. I am not sure of Danny Ainge or Larry Bird path to GM. I think Larry Bird was a successful coach prior to becoming a GM.
In fact, the Suns purportedly approached Nash if he was interested in the coaching job. (See D. Fisher and Jason Kidd)
Also Flip Sanders and Pat Riley started as coaches before getting into the FO. So in response to your question, the success of these people (ie. Riley, Bird, Ainge, etc.) in an unrelated field does entitled to Phil to a position in the FO.
In fact, not only in sports do we witness similar situations. There are numerous individuals who have success in one area and subsequently had success in a totally unrelated field. Lawyers become Doctors. Salesperson become business owners. Engineers become Lawyers. etc.
Look at Donald Trump. He had success in real estate. He had his own reality show. Now, he is trying to run for President.
I also acknowledge that the opposite is true too. Magic was a great player but a lousy coach. Magic is a brilliant business person but was a lousy host.
Isiah was a great player but was a lousy executive.
The list is endless.
A person can be successful in one area and totally have the same success in another unrelated area. That is what makes this country great.
Last edited by laker4life on Thu Feb 04, 2016 1:24 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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venturalakersfan
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Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2016 12:51 pm Post subject: |
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| K28 wrote: | | Hector the Pup wrote: | | laker4life wrote: | | Hector the Pup wrote: | | What exactly has Phil done to warrant consideration for running a team? I must have missed something, because the last time I checked, the Knicks are a lottery team with a losing record. |
What has Phil done?
Well he coached 11 teams to a championship.
He has coached 13 teams to the Finals.
He was a member of the Knicks. He coached the Bulls and Lakers. Therefore, he has been involved with three premier teams in the NBA.
He coached some of the greatest players in the NBA. These players continue to respect him.
He is a Hall of Famer.
I would imagine that he is highly respected in the NBA community and has some insight because of his extensive experience.
Is he qualified to be an executive? Only time will tell.
Isiah Thomas became an executive and did crappy.
Danny Ainge and Larry Bird are doing pretty well. |
So you have no reason other than his success in an almost unrelated field for your opinion. |
Apply the same logic to Jim Buss. |
Only Jim Buss has spent 12+ years in the Laker FO while Phil had 0 FO experience. So no, not close to being the same.
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2016 12:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Laker_Dynasty_01 wrote: | Phil did take Porzingis over the more popular Mudiay and Winslow. Phil also kept his superstar without going over market value, and while he dumped Smith, Shumpert, and Hardaway Jr., he still put the Knicks in position for a strong 2016 offseason.
This summer will be his first real test, competing with Riley and others for LeBron's services, while Jimbo weighs the pros and cons of a front-loaded Hibbert extension. |
So Phil signing Melo to a crippling contract is considered a success? And they won't be very big players in 2016 due to that successful Melo contract. As for your last comment regarding the Lakers, pretty dumb thing to post but it shows your bias perfectly. And as a supposed Laker fan, go figure.
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kikanga
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| Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2016 1:03 pm Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: |
So Phil signing Melo to a crippling contract is considered a success? And they won't be very big players in 2016 due to that successful Melo contract. As for your last comment regarding the Lakers, pretty dumb thing to post but it shows your bias perfectly. And as a supposed Laker fan, go figure. |
I'm not choosing sides here. But we did offer Melo the max as well.
I would've like to see a triumvirate with Jim, Mitch, and Phil. Similar to the Jerry, Jim, Mitch triumvirate that used to exist.
I've heard of the "too many cooks in the kitchen" metaphor before. But if ego could've been cast aside by all parties, I think we'd be in better shape than we are now.
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2016 1:10 pm Post subject: |
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| kikanga wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: |
So Phil signing Melo to a crippling contract is considered a success? And they won't be very big players in 2016 due to that successful Melo contract. As for your last comment regarding the Lakers, pretty dumb thing to post but it shows your bias perfectly. And as a supposed Laker fan, go figure. |
I'm not choosing sides here. But we did offer Melo the max as well.
I would've like to see a triumvirate with Jim, Mitch, and Phil. Similar to the Jerry, Jim, Mitch triumvirate that used to exist.
I've heard of the "too many cooks in the kitchen" metaphor before. But if ego could've been cast aside by all parties, I think we'd be in better shape than we are now. |
You are correct and there are issue with the Laker FO that need to be handled. Jim offered Phil a consulting job, but Phil was set on more.
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tlim
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| Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2016 1:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Tell me exactly how is it crippling if the contracts and the salary cap is going to balloon? |
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2016 1:38 pm Post subject: |
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Melo is aging quickly, he is averaging career lows this season, and they get to pay him $80 mil for the next 3.
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laker4life
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Posts: 7320
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| Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2016 2:02 pm Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: |
So Phil signing Melo to a crippling contract is considered a success? And they won't be very big players in 2016 due to that successful Melo contract. As for your last comment regarding the Lakers, pretty dumb thing to post but it shows your bias perfectly. And as a supposed Laker fan, go figure. |
I'm not choosing sides here. But we did offer Melo the max as well.
I would've like to see a triumvirate with Jim, Mitch, and Phil. Similar to the Jerry, Jim, Mitch triumvirate that used to exist.
I've heard of the "too many cooks in the kitchen" metaphor before. But if ego could've been cast aside by all parties, I think we'd be in better shape than we are now. |
You are correct and there are issue with the Laker FO that need to be handled. Jim offered Phil a consulting job, but Phil was set on more. |
I think everyone universally believes that "there are issues with the Laker FO that need to be handled."
The divergent of opinions is with the solution to solve these issues. |
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Laker_Dynasty_01
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| Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2016 2:04 pm Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | Laker_Dynasty_01 wrote: | Phil did take Porzingis over the more popular Mudiay and Winslow. Phil also kept his superstar without going over market value, and while he dumped Smith, Shumpert, and Hardaway Jr., he still put the Knicks in position for a strong 2016 offseason.
This summer will be his first real test, competing with Riley and others for LeBron's services, while Jimbo weighs the pros and cons of a front-loaded Hibbert extension. |
So Phil signing Melo to a crippling contract is considered a success? And they won't be very big players in 2016 due to that successful Melo contract. As for your last comment regarding the Lakers, pretty dumb thing to post but it shows your bias perfectly. And as a supposed Laker fan, go figure. |
It happened already with Jordan Hill, and with Jimbo's "secret analytic formula" he "tinkers" with late at night to "perfection", maybe he thinks with the right wing defenders, Roy can put up DPOY numbers again.
Both of us have a noticeable pro-Phil and anti-Phil bias(same w/ Jim), this is not news. The Knicks have 30 mil less cap space than we do (after JC gets 13.5 mil), but could free up space for a max contract by moving Afflalo. Still not a probable destination for a LeBron or KD, but a definite possibility for Derozan.
Last edited by Laker_Dynasty_01 on Thu Feb 04, 2016 2:11 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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USCandLakers
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| Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2016 2:09 pm Post subject: |
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| kikanga wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: |
So Phil signing Melo to a crippling contract is considered a success? And they won't be very big players in 2016 due to that successful Melo contract. As for your last comment regarding the Lakers, pretty dumb thing to post but it shows your bias perfectly. And as a supposed Laker fan, go figure. |
I'm not choosing sides here. But we did offer Melo the max as well.
I would've like to see a triumvirate with Jim, Mitch, and Phil. Similar to the Jerry, Jim, Mitch triumvirate that used to exist.
I've heard of the "too many cooks in the kitchen" metaphor before. But if ego could've been cast aside by all parties, I think we'd be in better shape than we are now. |
Two of those guys chose MDA over the greatest coach of all time and they weren't inebriated. That ain't no triumvirate. That's a basketball genius, a soldier that is only good for anything when he's taking orders, and someone that shouldn't even be allowed in the parking lot.
I'd love a Phil/Mitch pairing, as in Mitch only acts on Phil's orders and does nothing else, he would especially not have any input on free agency. I think that's his best position. A foot soldier. He isn't a Jerry West type.
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fiendishoc
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| Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2016 8:26 pm Post subject: |
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| USCandLakers wrote: | | angrypuppy wrote: | | K28 wrote: |
vlf is a self appointed insider |
I don't believe any of VLF's sources, it doesn't pass the giggle test. From what we can see, Jeanie isn't exactly blameless, but Jimmy is the one in-charge of basketball operations. In fact the entire timeline was intended to put pressure on Jimmy to take a stand: Make a forecast, following it with a plan, and then execute on that plan. Management 101. And now we're supposed to believe that the timeline was some ruse so we wouldn't blame the team, or Jeanie for the failure? Again, none of us with a brain find that believable. Fans will and should blame Jeanie. Fans will and should blame Jimmy. Fans will and should blame Byron. Why? Because this is a cluster (bleep), not a clever PR strategy. No PR strategy could ever hide this degree of failure. And now we're supposed to believe that failure is being laid at Jimmy's feet (despite his obvious innocence!) because he's some macho dude? Incredible. |
Disagree.
She has literally let Jim make every single decision and has not flexed her muscle once. That is the very definition of blameless. She did not place Jim in the position he currently sits in, he is not the man she wants in that seat. But she has empowered him all the same. And she has put him on the clock. He's going to own these failures just as he's going to own his successes. Because he's the one running basketball operations.
When you can actually blame Jeanie, when she can be judged for her decision making, it's going to be about whom she hires to replace Jim and the outcome of that decision.
Right now, her hands are absolutely clean. |
This is inaccurate. She has done the following things that have impacted basketball operations:
- Pushed the Kobe extension （ http://fansided.com/2014/04/19/report-jeanie-buss-pushed-kobe-bryant-2-year-extension/ )
- Was directly involved in the process to hire Byron Scott as coach, both in the candidate selection process and final vote. Also, the coach hire by committee process was probably done in reaction to her anger about the way that they rejected Phil Jackson ( her dad's decision ). http://www.latimes.com/sports/lakers/la-sp-lakers-coach-20140529-story.html
- Constantly bringing up Jim's deadline during FA pitching may have undermined Basketball Op's credibility
- Her business operations side took up most of the alloted time in the Laker's disastrous first pitch to LaMarcus Aldridge.
Not saying that she is the primary one responsible, but her hands are definitely not clean. |
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K28
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| Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2016 9:19 pm Post subject: |
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Lots of bullcrap reaches there ^^^
Kobe was getting extended no matter what. What was the realistic alternative? He's a huge draw even in his twilight. Paying him did not nagatively impact free agency prospects. And I think both Melo and LMA are on record about that.
Hiring Byron was ultimately Jim's call.
Jim brought up Jim's deadline...he volunteered it during his interview. |
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Laker_Dynasty_01
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| Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2016 9:41 pm Post subject: |
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How many interviews did Byron have before he was hired? Can't even remember who the other candidates were. Seems he got the job by default, they were looking for something better, but nothing better showed up. Maybe this wasn't the FO's fault in one sense, but if the team was better there'd be better candidates.
Think Shaw was a candidate but can't see us going with the PJax coaching tree.
Ollie re-upped at UCONN around then, IIRC. |
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2016 9:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Laker_Dynasty_01 wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | Laker_Dynasty_01 wrote: | Phil did take Porzingis over the more popular Mudiay and Winslow. Phil also kept his superstar without going over market value, and while he dumped Smith, Shumpert, and Hardaway Jr., he still put the Knicks in position for a strong 2016 offseason.
This summer will be his first real test, competing with Riley and others for LeBron's services, while Jimbo weighs the pros and cons of a front-loaded Hibbert extension. |
So Phil signing Melo to a crippling contract is considered a success? And they won't be very big players in 2016 due to that successful Melo contract. As for your last comment regarding the Lakers, pretty dumb thing to post but it shows your bias perfectly. And as a supposed Laker fan, go figure. |
It happened already with Jordan Hill, and with Jimbo's "secret analytic formula" he "tinkers" with late at night to "perfection", maybe he thinks with the right wing defenders, Roy can put up DPOY numbers again.
Both of us have a noticeable pro-Phil and anti-Phil bias(same w/ Jim), this is not news. The Knicks have 30 mil less cap space than we do (after JC gets 13.5 mil), but could free up space for a max contract by moving Afflalo. Still not a probable destination for a LeBron or KD, but a definite possibility for Derozan. |
Hill was a one year deal, ever heard of carrying cap space forward? And it is possible they might do it with Hibbert after this season. I am neither pro Phil or anti Phil, he is with the Knicks and I don't care too much what happens to them.
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Laker_Dynasty_01
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| Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2016 9:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Hill was a one year deal for 9 mil with a 3 mil buyout option for the second year, that's what I meant by front-loaded. |
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2016 10:08 pm Post subject: |
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He didn't have a $3 mil buyout from what I remember, I thought it was a team option. But of course I could be wrong. And as I said, that might happen with Hibbert to carry space to 2017.
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tox
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| Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2016 10:23 pm Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | He didn't have a $3 mil buyout from what I remember, I thought it was a team option. But of course I could be wrong. And as I said, that might happen with Hibbert to carry space to 2017. |
You are correct. |
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fiendishoc
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| Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2016 10:24 pm Post subject: |
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| K28 wrote: | Lots of bullcrap reaches there ^^^
Kobe was getting extended no matter what. What was the realistic alternative? He's a huge draw even in his twilight. Paying him did not nagatively impact free agency prospects. And I think both Melo and LMA are on record about that.
Hiring Byron was ultimately Jim's call.
Jim brought up Jim's deadline...he volunteered it during his interview. |
Everything above was reported by the LA Times. Almost word for word. Reaching is trying to say the opposite of what was reported despite it being linked right in front of you.
You may argue about what happened because of what all you want, but keep in mind it was in response to someone saying that she was completely hands off, which was simply false.
Last edited by fiendishoc on Thu Feb 04, 2016 10:55 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2016 10:25 pm Post subject: |
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Jim certainly did not bring up his deadline while recruiting FAs, Jeannie absolutely did.
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