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Woj: Lakers have little if any chance of signing Kevin Durant; Durant wants championships
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Bard207
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Posted: Sun Feb 14, 2016 10:42 pm Post subject:

MJST wrote:

Livingston 3m, Iggy the same, Speights vets minimum after all else is taken care of, if Speights wants to return.

$3 million (Livingston) + $11.1 million (Iguodala) == $14.1 million.

I don't see how they will have that much slack to work with.

venturalakersfan
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Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 10:06 am Post subject:

dcarter4kobe wrote:

Jim99187 wrote:

dcarter4kobe wrote:

Jim99187 wrote:

thats like stripping naked the entire GSW roster to get a max.

what makes them so good is guys like Bogut, Iggy, Livingston and barbosa. they won last yr because of their depth.

i dont know if its worth it for a team who may have won b2b and just broke the 72 win record

You only need 6-7 good players to win. KD/Curry/Thompson/Green/Ezeli/Barnes/Looney/FA guard would more than enough. They would Harrison Barnes as their 6th man now instead of Iggy

huh? how are u going to pay Barnes 21m extension and Ezeli around 20million even with recent knee injury?

or the cap space doesnt apply for warriors?

They would have their rights. Depends on how much GS would want to spend. If Banres get 20M and Ezeli get 15M. They would be at about 120M. Only 10M over the luxury tax

So with tax their payroll would be $145 mil, and if they kept that same amount over the next season their payroll would be $155 mil.
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venturalakersfan
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Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 10:12 am Post subject:

MJST wrote:

yinoma2001 wrote:

MJST wrote:

Bard207 wrote:

Durant's salary is going to be a percentage of the Salary Cap, so the $25 million that I used is just a ballpark number for now.

If the Cap Holds for Barnes ($9.6 million) and Ezeli ($5 million) are correct, then:

$25,000,000.....Durant
$16,662,500......Klay Thompson
$15,300,000......Draymond Green
$11,027,027......Curry
$1,182,840........Looney
$543,471...........Minimum Salary #1
$543,471...........Minimum Salary #2
$543,471...........Minimum Salary #3
$543,471...........Minimum Salary #4

$9,600,000........Barnes (Cap Hold)
$5,000,000........Festus Ezeli (Cap Hold)
$973,000.......... 2016 First Round pick (Cap Hold)

$883,000...........Jason Thompson (stretched)

$0......................Andrew Bogut
$0......................Iguodola
$0......................Livingston

-----------------------------------------------------
$87,802,251

barnes Cap hold are gone the moment he signs elsewhere correct? As in the moment he signs the offer sheet that Golden State won't match.

Incorrect. It's before a tender is signed.

That or if I remember correctly you can renounce a players cap hold. Renouncing their cap hold doesn't mean you can't re-sign him but it's implied. I'd assume if they are getting Durant, they'll renounce Barnes cap hold and that will be that. Renouncing a cap hold just means you cannot re-sign them via birds rights if I read the CBA correctly.

You can renounce a player but would have to use an exception or cap space to sign him.
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venturalakersfan
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Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 10:14 am Post subject:

MJST wrote:

Bard207 wrote:

MJST wrote:

Jim99187 wrote:

Not really.

$11.3 about a 3rd of that brings back livingston, they don't need to lose Iggy. Barbosa will be 34. Everyone else can and would be brought back for the vets minimum, guys like Speights.

So again, roster looks like this

Stephen Curry
Klay Thompson
Kevin Durant
Draymond Green
Festus Ezeli

Bench:
Shaun Livingston
Igoudala
Speights
Looney
McAdoo

So again... what have they lost?

Diddily.

What are the salaries for:

* Livingston
* Iguodola
* Speights

in your scenario?

Livingston 3m, Iggy the same, Speights vets minimum after all else is taken care of, if Speights wants to return.

They wouldn't have the cap space to do that.
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venturalakersfan
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Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 10:16 am Post subject:

MJST wrote:

yinoma2001 wrote:

MJST wrote:

yinoma2001 wrote:

MJST wrote:

Bard207 wrote:

barnes Cap hold are gone the moment he signs elsewhere correct? As in the moment he signs the offer sheet that Golden State won't match. That or if I remember correctly you can renounce a players cap hold. Renouncing their cap hold doesn't mean you can't re-sign him but it's implied. I'd assume if they are getting Durant, they'll renounce Barnes cap hold and that will be that.

Still isn't enough to keep Iggy and bogut. At best you can keep Livingston.

Fairly certain they can keep Iggy, and they don't need to keep Bogut, he'd be moved out, and Thompson I'd assume would be moved in a trade instead of waived.

Again, I fully expect the Lakers to try to swoop in and take Bogut and Barns off Golden State's hands before some other team swoops in and does it.

Warriors also out of sweetener draft picks too. Fwiw.

And? They wouldn't need any. Bogut is a defensive center there will always be a market for him.

Expect Miami and The Lakers to go after him, Miami if they miss out on Whiteside especially. Also expect the Pelicans to make a go for him after the departure of Asik. Again. They can move Bogut and Thompson with little problem

And the salary they bring in those traded decreases the amount of cap space they would have.
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wolfpaclaker
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Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 10:49 am Post subject:

Sounding awfully like that either KD is staying on a 2 year deal ala Lebron (with a player option for year 2 so he can opt out with Westbrook) or going to GST. Also if KD takes the 2 year deal player option in year 2 deal with OKC over GST, I expect both the Lakers and Knicks to do a lot of punting - and maybe even the Mavs and 1-2 other teams this summer. Personally think Mitch needs to make a couple of moves this summer but if he sees Durant punt in free agency to become a FA with Westbrook, man that's too tough a home run to resist going for.

yinoma2001
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Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 10:52 am Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:

Sounding awfully like that either KD is staying on a 2 year deal ala Lebron (with a player option for year 2 so he can opt out with Westbrook) or going to GST.

Also if KD takes the 2 year deal player option in year 2 deal with OKC over GST, I expect both the Lakers and Knicks to do a lot of punting - and maybe even the Mavs and 1-2 other teams this summer.

Personally think Mitch needs to make a couple of moves this summer but if he sees Durant punt in free agency to become a FA with Westbrook, man that's too tough a home run to resist going for.

Man, you'll need close to 65m plus in cap space in 2017 for both. I don't want both of them to be honest. At their age and salary price, plus the opportunity cost of building a team around them, I'd rather go with one. But yeah, my fear is the Lakers electing to punt nearly 50m in cap space in 2016 to make it happen. That means we will have around 10m to spend on players going forward, and will rely on placeholders for the rest.

Translation, another terrible year. Maybe we get a top 3 pick, but that also means in 2016, we may be another bottom 3 team with no pick in 2017. Will get ugly.
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mhan00
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Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 11:02 am Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:

wolfpaclaker wrote:

If that happens, absolutely Jim should go, and maybe Mitch too, and I don't see how anyone could argue otherwise.

yinoma2001
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Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 11:09 am Post subject:

mhan00 wrote:

yinoma2001 wrote:

wolfpaclaker wrote:

If that happens, absolutely Jim should go, and maybe Mitch too, and I don't see how anyone could argue otherwise.

But the temptation will be too great. And we wouldn't even be able to trade young assets for a vet as the resulting cap space would be eaten up as we need to have 50m in cap space carry over in 2017.

So you'd have KD/WB, a full year older than today, and much more expensive. I don't think they'd have better results together when they get older than when they were in OKC.
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venturalakersfan
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Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 11:10 am Post subject:

mhan00 wrote:

yinoma2001 wrote:

wolfpaclaker wrote:

If that happens, absolutely Jim should go, and maybe Mitch too, and I don't see how anyone could argue otherwise.

So the smart move is to overspend for marginal talent? I disagree.
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A Mad Chinaman
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Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 11:13 am Post subject:

mhan00 wrote:

yinoma2001 wrote:

wolfpaclaker wrote:

If that happens, absolutely Jim should go, and maybe Mitch too, and I don't see how anyone could argue otherwise.

Fortunately and gratefully, Mitch has always placed himself in a position to always be flexible - financially and roster-wise

Mitch understands that he needs two impact players (via trade or FA) to surround his talented core of young players. Getting Drummond, Monroe or Cousins would be ideal if Durant is not available

If GS is foolish enough to trade depth to get Durant, all the other teams would jump at the chance to get their "crumbs"

yinoma2001
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Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 11:15 am Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:

mhan00 wrote:

yinoma2001 wrote:

wolfpaclaker wrote:

If that happens, absolutely Jim should go, and maybe Mitch too, and I don't see how anyone could argue otherwise.

So the smart move is to overspend for marginal talent? I disagree.

So WB/KD would take up the entire cap space for 2017. What happens if both go elsewhere? Then we've punted 2016 and ostensibly 2017 now.

I'm of the mindset that I only want one of KD or WB, not both. From a cap standpoint/age/etc. it's too crippling to have a team that's top heavy and unable to beat a team like the Warriors/Spurs.
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Money23
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Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 5:07 pm Post subject:

MJST wrote:

yinoma2001 wrote:

MJST wrote:

yinoma2001 wrote:

Again. Barnes's cap hold is 9.6m and Ezeli is around 5m. Please read the CBA.

Then that frees 26 instead of 22. And again, Barnes would be gone in order for them to get Durant. Which is what would happen.

Again, moving Bogut and letting the Lakers sign Barnes is all they'd really need to do.

And again, Durant would be very worth it. Particularly with the rise of Ezeli.

Most projections I've seen have Iggy, bogut and Barnes gone.

Cap space is also projected to be 89-90 million next off-season. Before even moving Bogut the Warriors would have 74 of that taken up.

Which means essentially they'd enter free agency with 16m of cap space.

Moving Bogut gives them 27m cap space (enough to max Durant) and removing Barnes 8m cap hold once he signs with the team that gave him the offer sheet agreement means they'd have 35m cap space. Which in turn leaves them enough space to max Durant for 25 million leaving 10m left, which would be enough to bring back Livingston, barbosa and Speights if they wished to and that's not even with moving Jason Thompson which would free an additional 6.8 million and leave them 16.8 million left AFTER maxing Durant.

So yeah. they only need to move Bogut and let Barnes go to the Lakers or somewhere.

Hey Mist let me help you out

Durant to Warriors can happen without trading away Iggy! and the cap may not stay at 90 mill it could go to as high as 92-95 mill

I'll say it again, since its overlooked:
Declining the options of Thompson and Livingston, and renouncing the rights to those two plus Rush and Barbosa (making above the min since we gave him a raise this offseason) will also clear up room.

The key is the timing of all of these transactions. Barnes cannot sign an offer sheet for ten days or so after FA begins; until he does, he counts only as a cap hold (i think its around $8M or whatever, doesn't matter). In the meantime, we're free to negotiate with Durant's camp.

IF DURANT AGREES - we can then get the accounting started. Getting rid of the cap holds of Thompson, Livingston, Barbosa, Rush, and Speights will gut the bench (more on that in a second) but also free up a **** of space. If Durant agrees, you renounce Barnes. Then you trade Bogut only for space, taking nothing back. That leaves:

Ezeli = $5M (cap hold)
Curry = $12.1M
Klay = $16.6M
Iggy = $11.1M
Dray = $15.3M
Looney = $1.1M
9 empty slots @ $500k each = $4.5M (we also have a late 1st rounder who won't make much difference)

Total = $65.7M

Assuming the Cap is $90M, that leave us with $24.3M in cap space. There's differing estimates I've seen, but I've seen Durant's max starting salary at anywhere between $25.3 - $27M. I think that gets us in the door if Durant wants to come here (if he didn't this math wouldn't matter anyways). IF you want incentivize, you give him an opt-out or something. Make it 3 guaranteed years + 1 player option so he can get out and re-sign with Bird rights sooner.

AFTER signing Durant, you'd then re-sign Ezeli using Bird rights to whatever we want up to his max (who cares?)

Filling out the bench is the hard part, BUT I think you turn to Barbosa and Rush and they'll probably take the vet minimum, which any team can use, to stay. Out of loyalty to Kerr and GSW, plus their respective ages, I think thats an easy call.

The real hard one is Livingston, since his play has earned him a raise. He made $6M or so under the old MLE deal he signed, and he could probably get a starting gig somewhere. On the open market I bet he gets offers at $10M or more. We could only use the cap space exception which starts at $3M, certainly we could not match $10M. We really need him for depth in the back court on both ends of the floor. If he stays for $3M (like Ginobili did), we're in great shape.

That leaves the front court, where we only have minimum slots left IIRC. Thats gonna be a challenge. We'd have Durant/Dray capable of PF, Ezeli and Looney for C. You need at least one more trust worthy big, but then you turn to vets who got bought out and are ring chasing.

The math is pretty tight, but if Durant wants to come, thats how we could do it losing only Bogut, Speights, and Thompson (plus maybe Livingston).

We'd be left with:
Curry/Klay/Durant/Dray/Ezeli, with Iggy, Barbosa, Rush, and Looney off the bench. The rest of the roster is our 1st, plus minimum spots and maybe Livingston.

If you trade Iguodala you have even more space but that leaves a gaping hole in our perimeter defense that i'm not real comfortable with. Its hard enough to stomach the loss of frontcourt defense in Bogut.

Of course on offense we're looking at 130 PPG.

yinoma2001
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Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 5:09 pm Post subject:

We? _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals

Money23
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Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 5:44 pm Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:

MJST wrote:

yinoma2001 wrote:

MJST wrote:

yinoma2001 wrote:

MJST wrote:

Bard207 wrote:

Still isn't enough to keep Iggy and bogut. At best you can keep Livingston.

Warriors also out of sweetener draft picks too. Fwiw.

Sure but doesn't change my factual statement. They gave up 2 1st rounders to Utah to take contracts to sign Iggy. Don't have that kind of Arsenal now.

he has an expiring contract and that contract is from the old CBA cap so his contract is super friendly they get rid of Bogut without the need of a first round pick plus hes still servicable and there would be many suitors for him

yinoma2001
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Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 5:49 pm Post subject:

And Ezeli is dependable given his injury history? _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals

venturalakersfan
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Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 5:56 pm Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:

We?

And 9 empty slots? Stopped reading at that.
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yinoma2001
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Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 6:14 pm Post subject:

With the cap rising it's going to be tougher to ask prospective free agents to take minimum deals. Even those guys will get paid due to the cap rising. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals

Omar Little
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Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 6:22 pm Post subject:

Also tougher to sign one year placeholders.

dlofan
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Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2016 11:00 pm Post subject:

Here are the official odds (by percentage) on where KD decides to play (with analysis) 75% LA Lakers- When Stephen A Smith goes on record with something, you can bet your life that he is correct. Durant wants to play for the Lakers and his buddy RW will join the team in 2017. Also he will want to play with future MVP DLO 10% OKC They can offer the most cash and years 10% Washington If he decides to play for his hometown 2% LA Clippers- He likes LA, so maybe he will play for Los Angeles' B team 2% boston- no comment 1% Golden State Warriors- He won't want to tarnish his legacy by going to the best team

Rawr
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Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2016 11:03 pm Post subject:

dlofan wrote:

Here are the official odds (by percentage) on where KD decides to play (with analysis)

75% LA Lakers- When Stephen A Smith goes on record with something, you can bet your life that he is correct. Durant wants to play for the Lakers and his buddy RW will join the team in 2017. Also he will want to play with future MVP DLO

10% OKC They can offer the most cash and years

10% Washington If he decides to play for his hometown

2% LA Clippers- He likes LA, so maybe he will play for Los Angeles' B team

2% boston- no comment

1% Golden State Warriors- He won't want to tarnish his legacy by going to the best team

Could I get some guidance on the stock market for tomorrow morning next?
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panamaniac
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Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2016 11:18 pm Post subject:

24 wrote:

Also tougher to sign one year placeholders.

Yes. More importantly this will also affect us. We can't go another year with placeholders, since it'll be tough to fill out a 90 M cap sheet with a bunch of castoffs. We are pretty much obligated to acquire quality in this next FA season.

fiendishoc
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Posted: Wed Feb 17, 2016 12:13 am Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:

We?

I, for one, think it's pretty cool that Draymond Green has a LG account.

frack24
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Posted: Thu Feb 18, 2016 10:34 pm Post subject:

http://sneakernews.com/2016/02/18/first-look-at-the-nike-kd-8-pbj/ KD's new shoes are purple. So, it's official. Things are getting pretty serious. LOL. His KD 6 did the same PB and Jelly colorway. but google the difference between the two. these new shoes look alot more like a Kobe low top purple shoe. They will look good on him for the first game next season

Chronicle
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Posted: Fri Feb 19, 2016 1:41 am Post subject:

What's a warrior fan doing on this board _________________ Kobe

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