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moonriver24
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 Posted: Tue Feb 09, 2016 6:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Day wrote: | It's interesting how the people who bash Kobe will still admit how close to MJ that he was. They'll admit he's the 2nd best SG to ever play and admit that MJ is just slightly better. But then when it comes to ranking a top 10 they'll leave Kobe out and put MJ number 1? It's absurd how they can admit the closeness in the two but rank them so separately to the point where they only have 1 SG in their top 10.
When comparing the two it becomes obvious that MJ is only better than Kobe in very few ways and that for every area MJ is a little better, Kobe has an area where he is ahead of MJ.
I think that if MJ and Kobe switched eras Kobe would have had a much better career than MJ and MJ would not be considered GOAT if he played in todays game. You can say that it's unfair because MJ was the first of his kind and he paved the way but I don't think, as a pure basketball player, MJ is so far ahead of the players that he paved the way for. |
People are adamnant to say kobe can do more than mj. Because to say so would be an admission of kobe greatness n thus a detriment to say mj is greater than kobe.
If you happen to listen to commentors during kobe prime years, some already were not afraid to say kobe is a better scorer than mj because they had seen what kobe had done. When kobe was only 21, mj nutcrackers began to see what was yet to come. I know they have been aching to see kobe going down to stop the "hype" that some commentators kept saying.
We have a lot to thank Jerry West for his insane n what most gms said to be stupid move to trade a good center for a highschooler.
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moonriver24
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Joined: 21 Oct 2007
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| Posted: Tue Feb 09, 2016 6:36 pm Post subject: |
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| business101 wrote: | | moonriver24 wrote: | | business101 wrote: | | moonriver24 wrote: | | business101 wrote: | | dmorans1 wrote: | | business101 wrote: | | dmorans1 wrote: | | business101 wrote: | | dmorans1 wrote: | | business101 wrote: | | From a career standpoint, he's 8 on the list. From a pure basketball, talent, and impact wise, he's 12. So I guess they are talking from a pure talent standpoint. |
From a talent standpoint there are three players that stand out above the rest, MJ, Kobe, and Kareem. Not sure what the heck you are talking about. |
There is nothing unique about Kobe talent. |
Irrelevant. Uniqueness has nothing to do with talent. |
He is the master of incorporating other skills but yet master of none type of talent. He is not the fastest, doesn't have the greatest vision, not the greatest shot maker or the greatest shooter, nor the greatest athlete. But he works extra hard to make up for what his GOAT peers are naturally born with. So #12 are about right. Most because he didn't have any season which stand out among his GOAT peers. No advance metric to back up his seasonal dominance against his peer. Although I think #11 might be more appropriate. Not a big fan of Big-0 game. |
Irrelevant again. So you would pick a guy who is a master at one thing over a guy who is a master in every single aspect of the game?
And what's so wrong about the second part? A guy actually working hard to get where he is today? Man sorry this guy wasn't born to be a 7'2" 350 pound underachieving giant. |
I let you what. I rather pick 10 guys over Kobe any day if there is a draft for it. That tell you something. It is not so much as he is good at everything. We know Kobe can do everything. So effectively did that impact the game compare to his GOAT peers is the question you should ask yourself? For instance, 90% of non-Lakers fan would pick Magic over Kobe even though Kobe is a more well, skill player than Magic. What Magic have that nobody can match is his court vision and a feel for the game that is unrivaled. Those two attributions alone are enough to impact the game a lot more than Kobe putting up 40+ppt run. It is fun to watch but not effective for a team. |
The shallowness of your preference is easily exposed. Pair Magic with kwame smush odom george mihm atkins vs kobe plus worthy kareem byron etc.
Magic needed great finishers to get his assists. Otherwise he had to be mj or kobe to propel his team to win. |
Yes, pair Magic with Smooth, Kwame, LO, Walton and Magic would make those guys play a better team game than Kobe.
To claim Mgic need great finishers to get his assists. You don't understand how the game of basketball is play. I'm sorry man. You just don't. |
Really? You think magic can make them move like worthy byron etc? How is an assist created? Do you know how steve nash got his assist per game so high? Shooters. System. Players.
Do you think nash can make kwame better? |
Magic doesn't need to make Kwame become Worthy or Smooth become Byron. They just need to play their game and Magic will open everything up for them. They wouldn't be a championship contender but they will be a better team than 7th seat.
If Magic plays in today era, he would rack up even more assists than the 1980s. As you said, the athlete today and shooter are much better. It would be an easy assist for Magic as he doesn't have to make accurate inside the paint pass to get an assist.
Also you can't compare Nash to Magic. Magic is a 6'9 PG. He has natural advantage purely from his presence on the court. |
How should kwame "just play his game" to assist magic to create his assists? Do you know what Phil Jackson said to kwame? Have you read a story about kwame not wanting the ball? Do you know why? So, when kwame, george, mihm and others just play their gam they will help create magic assists like kareem worthy byron etc could and had? Got it.
And since today has more better shooters magic would have preferred todays players than his old buddies as he will win more ships.
You are the best guru ever. Everybody needs to listen to you from now on. You are the greatest statistician and observer. A plus for you.
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Kobe's Top 5 Dunks, 81 points, MJ last gm @Staples |
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greenfrog
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| Posted: Tue Feb 09, 2016 6:42 pm Post subject: |
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| moonriver24 wrote: | | Magic needed great finishers to get his assists. Otherwise he had to be mj or kobe to propel his team to win. Talk about efficiency n effectiveness if magic played with the likes of kwame. |
Were you old enough to have even watched that 80's team? My god, Kurt Rambis... |
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moonriver24
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| Posted: Tue Feb 09, 2016 6:45 pm Post subject: |
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| greenfrog wrote: | | moonriver24 wrote: | | Magic needed great finishers to get his assists. Otherwise he had to be mj or kobe to propel his team to win. Talk about efficiency n effectiveness if magic played with the likes of kwame. |
Were you old enough to have even watched that 80's team? My god, Kurt Rambis... |
Dude rambis vs kwame. Gosh
This not to belitte Magic.
The fact remains kobe played with the likes of kwame smush and atkins of the nba. In his prime.
Magic did not.
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Kobe's Top 5 Dunks, 81 points, MJ last gm @Staples
Last edited by moonriver24 on Tue Feb 09, 2016 6:48 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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greenfrog
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| Posted: Tue Feb 09, 2016 6:46 pm Post subject: |
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| moonriver24 wrote: | | greenfrog wrote: | | moonriver24 wrote: | | Magic needed great finishers to get his assists. Otherwise he had to be mj or kobe to propel his team to win. Talk about efficiency n effectiveness if magic played with the likes of kwame. |
Were you old enough to have even watched that 80's team? My god, Kurt Rambis... |
Dude rambis vs kwame. Gosh |
Didn't answer the question. |
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moonriver24
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Joined: 21 Oct 2007
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| Posted: Tue Feb 09, 2016 6:51 pm Post subject: |
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| greenfrog wrote: | | moonriver24 wrote: | | greenfrog wrote: | | moonriver24 wrote: | | Magic needed great finishers to get his assists. Otherwise he had to be mj or kobe to propel his team to win. Talk about efficiency n effectiveness if magic played with the likes of kwame. |
Were you old enough to have even watched that 80's team? My god, Kurt Rambis... |
Dude rambis vs kwame. Gosh |
Didn't answer the question. |
Lol. See how you hid the rest of players.
Magic is immortal. I already said in my previous post along with three others.
Everyone is special.
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Kobe's Top 5 Dunks, 81 points, MJ last gm @Staples |
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business101
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| Posted: Tue Feb 09, 2016 6:53 pm Post subject: |
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| moonriver24 wrote: | | business101 wrote: | | moonriver24 wrote: | | business101 wrote: | | moonriver24 wrote: | | business101 wrote: | | dmorans1 wrote: | | business101 wrote: | | dmorans1 wrote: | | business101 wrote: | | dmorans1 wrote: | | business101 wrote: | | From a career standpoint, he's 8 on the list. From a pure basketball, talent, and impact wise, he's 12. So I guess they are talking from a pure talent standpoint. |
From a talent standpoint there are three players that stand out above the rest, MJ, Kobe, and Kareem. Not sure what the heck you are talking about. |
There is nothing unique about Kobe talent. |
Irrelevant. Uniqueness has nothing to do with talent. |
He is the master of incorporating other skills but yet master of none type of talent. He is not the fastest, doesn't have the greatest vision, not the greatest shot maker or the greatest shooter, nor the greatest athlete. But he works extra hard to make up for what his GOAT peers are naturally born with. So #12 are about right. Most because he didn't have any season which stand out among his GOAT peers. No advance metric to back up his seasonal dominance against his peer. Although I think #11 might be more appropriate. Not a big fan of Big-0 game. |
Irrelevant again. So you would pick a guy who is a master at one thing over a guy who is a master in every single aspect of the game?
And what's so wrong about the second part? A guy actually working hard to get where he is today? Man sorry this guy wasn't born to be a 7'2" 350 pound underachieving giant. |
I let you what. I rather pick 10 guys over Kobe any day if there is a draft for it. That tell you something. It is not so much as he is good at everything. We know Kobe can do everything. So effectively did that impact the game compare to his GOAT peers is the question you should ask yourself? For instance, 90% of non-Lakers fan would pick Magic over Kobe even though Kobe is a more well, skill player than Magic. What Magic have that nobody can match is his court vision and a feel for the game that is unrivaled. Those two attributions alone are enough to impact the game a lot more than Kobe putting up 40+ppt run. It is fun to watch but not effective for a team. |
The shallowness of your preference is easily exposed. Pair Magic with kwame smush odom george mihm atkins vs kobe plus worthy kareem byron etc.
Magic needed great finishers to get his assists. Otherwise he had to be mj or kobe to propel his team to win. |
Yes, pair Magic with Smooth, Kwame, LO, Walton and Magic would make those guys play a better team game than Kobe.
To claim Mgic need great finishers to get his assists. You don't understand how the game of basketball is play. I'm sorry man. You just don't. |
Really? You think magic can make them move like worthy byron etc? How is an assist created? Do you know how steve nash got his assist per game so high? Shooters. System. Players.
Do you think nash can make kwame better? |
Magic doesn't need to make Kwame become Worthy or Smooth become Byron. They just need to play their game and Magic will open everything up for them. They wouldn't be a championship contender but they will be a better team than 7th seat.
If Magic plays in today era, he would rack up even more assists than the 1980s. As you said, the athlete today and shooter are much better. It would be an easy assist for Magic as he doesn't have to make accurate inside the paint pass to get an assist.
Also you can't compare Nash to Magic. Magic is a 6'9 PG. He has natural advantage purely from his presence on the court. |
How should kwame "just play his game" to assist magic to create his assists? Do you know what Phil Jackson said to kwame? Have you read a story about kwame not wanting the ball? Do you know why? So, when kwame, george, mihm and others just play their gam they will help create magic assists like kareem worthy byron etc could and had? Got it.
And since today has more better shooters magic would have preferred todays players than his old buddies as he will win more ships.
You are the best guru ever. Everybody needs to listen to you from now on. You are the greatest statistician and observer. A plus for you. |
You got everything twist backward. Kwame is a mental midget and some of those can be attributed to Kobe's demanding demeanor. Magic is different.
The ways players today can shoot 1-5, hell yeah, why wouldn't Magic want to play in this era? This era is design for guys like Magic who loves to play fast-pace and has finishers and shooters across the floor, 1-5. |
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greenfrog
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| Posted: Tue Feb 09, 2016 6:58 pm Post subject: |
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| moonriver24 wrote: | | greenfrog wrote: | | moonriver24 wrote: | | greenfrog wrote: | | moonriver24 wrote: | | Magic needed great finishers to get his assists. Otherwise he had to be mj or kobe to propel his team to win. Talk about efficiency n effectiveness if magic played with the likes of kwame. |
Were you old enough to have even watched that 80's team? My god, Kurt Rambis... |
Dude rambis vs kwame. Gosh |
Didn't answer the question. |
Lol. See how you hid the rest of players.
Magic is immortal. I already said in my previous post along with three others.
Everyone is special. |
I didn't hide anything. You edited.
And you still haven't answered the question... Guess you didn't, which is fine, but how you can put your foot to the throttle making a statement like that without even some basic eyewitness knowledge is pretty stupid. |
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moonriver24
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Joined: 21 Oct 2007
Posts: 15265
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| Posted: Tue Feb 09, 2016 7:03 pm Post subject: |
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| business101 wrote: | | moonriver24 wrote: | | business101 wrote: | | moonriver24 wrote: | | business101 wrote: | | moonriver24 wrote: | | business101 wrote: | | dmorans1 wrote: | | business101 wrote: | | dmorans1 wrote: | | business101 wrote: | | dmorans1 wrote: | | business101 wrote: | | From a career standpoint, he's 8 on the list. From a pure basketball, talent, and impact wise, he's 12. So I guess they are talking from a pure talent standpoint. |
From a talent standpoint there are three players that stand out above the rest, MJ, Kobe, and Kareem. Not sure what the heck you are talking about. |
There is nothing unique about Kobe talent. |
Irrelevant. Uniqueness has nothing to do with talent. |
He is the master of incorporating other skills but yet master of none type of talent. He is not the fastest, doesn't have the greatest vision, not the greatest shot maker or the greatest shooter, nor the greatest athlete. But he works extra hard to make up for what his GOAT peers are naturally born with. So #12 are about right. Most because he didn't have any season which stand out among his GOAT peers. No advance metric to back up his seasonal dominance against his peer. Although I think #11 might be more appropriate. Not a big fan of Big-0 game. |
Irrelevant again. So you would pick a guy who is a master at one thing over a guy who is a master in every single aspect of the game?
And what's so wrong about the second part? A guy actually working hard to get where he is today? Man sorry this guy wasn't born to be a 7'2" 350 pound underachieving giant. |
I let you what. I rather pick 10 guys over Kobe any day if there is a draft for it. That tell you something. It is not so much as he is good at everything. We know Kobe can do everything. So effectively did that impact the game compare to his GOAT peers is the question you should ask yourself? For instance, 90% of non-Lakers fan would pick Magic over Kobe even though Kobe is a more well, skill player than Magic. What Magic have that nobody can match is his court vision and a feel for the game that is unrivaled. Those two attributions alone are enough to impact the game a lot more than Kobe putting up 40+ppt run. It is fun to watch but not effective for a team. |
The shallowness of your preference is easily exposed. Pair Magic with kwame smush odom george mihm atkins vs kobe plus worthy kareem byron etc.
Magic needed great finishers to get his assists. Otherwise he had to be mj or kobe to propel his team to win. |
Yes, pair Magic with Smooth, Kwame, LO, Walton and Magic would make those guys play a better team game than Kobe.
To claim Mgic need great finishers to get his assists. You don't understand how the game of basketball is play. I'm sorry man. You just don't. |
Really? You think magic can make them move like worthy byron etc? How is an assist created? Do you know how steve nash got his assist per game so high? Shooters. System. Players.
Do you think nash can make kwame better? |
Magic doesn't need to make Kwame become Worthy or Smooth become Byron. They just need to play their game and Magic will open everything up for them. They wouldn't be a championship contender but they will be a better team than 7th seat.
If Magic plays in today era, he would rack up even more assists than the 1980s. As you said, the athlete today and shooter are much better. It would be an easy assist for Magic as he doesn't have to make accurate inside the paint pass to get an assist.
Also you can't compare Nash to Magic. Magic is a 6'9 PG. He has natural advantage purely from his presence on the court. |
How should kwame "just play his game" to assist magic to create his assists? Do you know what Phil Jackson said to kwame? Have you read a story about kwame not wanting the ball? Do you know why? So, when kwame, george, mihm and others just play their gam they will help create magic assists like kareem worthy byron etc could and had? Got it.
And since today has more better shooters magic would have preferred todays players than his old buddies as he will win more ships.
You are the best guru ever. Everybody needs to listen to you from now on. You are the greatest statistician and observer. A plus for you. |
You got everything twist backward. Kwame is a mental midget and some of those can be attributed to Kobe's demanding demeanor. Magic is different.
The ways players today can shoot 1-5, hell yeah, why wouldn't Magic want to play in this era? This era is design for guys like Magic who loves to play fast-pace and has finishers and shooters across the floor, 1-5. |
You said you know bball. Amazing.
Before you blame kobe for that mental gadget you should blame number 23 first.
So, you implied Magic with his approach whatever it is will make this mental gadget an instrumental one. See. You are the greatest.
Tell you what. I will take bulls of 90s n lakers of 2000s vs this modern no defense bball.
But thats just my innocent n naivette opinion.
_________________
Kobe's Top 5 Dunks, 81 points, MJ last gm @Staples |
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moonriver24
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Joined: 21 Oct 2007
Posts: 15265
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| Posted: Tue Feb 09, 2016 7:08 pm Post subject: |
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| greenfrog wrote: | | moonriver24 wrote: | | greenfrog wrote: | | moonriver24 wrote: | | greenfrog wrote: | | moonriver24 wrote: | | Magic needed great finishers to get his assists. Otherwise he had to be mj or kobe to propel his team to win. Talk about efficiency n effectiveness if magic played with the likes of kwame. |
Were you old enough to have even watched that 80's team? My god, Kurt Rambis... |
Dude rambis vs kwame. Gosh |
Didn't answer the question. |
Lol. See how you hid the rest of players.
Magic is immortal. I already said in my previous post along with three others.
Everyone is special. |
I didn't hide anything. You edited.
And you still haven't answered the question... Guess you didn't, which is fine, but how you can put your foot to the throttle making a statement like that without even some basic eyewitness knowledge is pretty stupid. |
I put magic in the immotals.
Thats how I respect him.
Bball is a team sport. Teammates matter.
Everybody knows even an immortal needs good teamates to win it all.
I watched magic in the 90s.
How would he have fared with kwame n the gang?
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Kobe's Top 5 Dunks, 81 points, MJ last gm @Staples |
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greenfrog
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Posts: 36081
Location: 502 Bad Gateway
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| Posted: Tue Feb 09, 2016 7:16 pm Post subject: |
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| moonriver24 wrote: | | greenfrog wrote: | | moonriver24 wrote: | | greenfrog wrote: | | moonriver24 wrote: | | greenfrog wrote: | | moonriver24 wrote: | | Magic needed great finishers to get his assists. Otherwise he had to be mj or kobe to propel his team to win. Talk about efficiency n effectiveness if magic played with the likes of kwame. |
Were you old enough to have even watched that 80's team? My god, Kurt Rambis... |
Dude rambis vs kwame. Gosh |
Didn't answer the question. |
Lol. See how you hid the rest of players.
Magic is immortal. I already said in my previous post along with three others.
Everyone is special. |
I didn't hide anything. You edited.
And you still haven't answered the question... Guess you didn't, which is fine, but how you can put your foot to the throttle making a statement like that without even some basic eyewitness knowledge is pretty stupid. |
I put magic in the immotals.
Thats how I respect him.
Bball is a team sport. Teammates matter.
Everybody knows even an immortal needs good teamates to win it all.
I watched magic in the 90s.
How would he have fared with kwame n the gang? |
Better. Orchestrating and creating offense was his niche. He could score like a monster too when he felt like it. |
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moonriver24
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Joined: 21 Oct 2007
Posts: 15265
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| Posted: Tue Feb 09, 2016 7:25 pm Post subject: |
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| greenfrog wrote: | | moonriver24 wrote: | | greenfrog wrote: | | moonriver24 wrote: | | greenfrog wrote: | | moonriver24 wrote: | | greenfrog wrote: | | moonriver24 wrote: | | Magic needed great finishers to get his assists. Otherwise he had to be mj or kobe to propel his team to win. Talk about efficiency n effectiveness if magic played with the likes of kwame. |
Were you old enough to have even watched that 80's team? My god, Kurt Rambis... |
Dude rambis vs kwame. Gosh |
Didn't answer the question. |
Lol. See how you hid the rest of players.
Magic is immortal. I already said in my previous post along with three others.
Everyone is special. |
I didn't hide anything. You edited.
And you still haven't answered the question... Guess you didn't, which is fine, but how you can put your foot to the throttle making a statement like that without even some basic eyewitness knowledge is pretty stupid. |
I put magic in the immotals.
Thats how I respect him.
Bball is a team sport. Teammates matter.
Everybody knows even an immortal needs good teamates to win it all.
I watched magic in the 90s.
How would he have fared with kwame n the gang? |
Better. Orchestrating and creating offense was his niche. He could score like a monster too when he felt like it. |
Not if he is constantly doubled n tripled when he is the only one capable of monsterous game. Besides his assist per game will go down if he is to score more. Cant have it both ways.
I doubt he can handle double n triple team better than kobe n mj. Unless you have great shooters to deter double triple defense, good luck.
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Kobe's Top 5 Dunks, 81 points, MJ last gm @Staples |
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business101
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Joined: 25 Nov 2013
Posts: 757
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| Posted: Tue Feb 09, 2016 8:49 pm Post subject: |
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| moonriver24 wrote: | | business101 wrote: | | moonriver24 wrote: | | business101 wrote: | | moonriver24 wrote: | | business101 wrote: | | moonriver24 wrote: | | business101 wrote: | | dmorans1 wrote: | | business101 wrote: | | dmorans1 wrote: | | business101 wrote: | | dmorans1 wrote: | | business101 wrote: | | From a career standpoint, he's 8 on the list. From a pure basketball, talent, and impact wise, he's 12. So I guess they are talking from a pure talent standpoint. |
From a talent standpoint there are three players that stand out above the rest, MJ, Kobe, and Kareem. Not sure what the heck you are talking about. |
There is nothing unique about Kobe talent. |
Irrelevant. Uniqueness has nothing to do with talent. |
He is the master of incorporating other skills but yet master of none type of talent. He is not the fastest, doesn't have the greatest vision, not the greatest shot maker or the greatest shooter, nor the greatest athlete. But he works extra hard to make up for what his GOAT peers are naturally born with. So #12 are about right. Most because he didn't have any season which stand out among his GOAT peers. No advance metric to back up his seasonal dominance against his peer. Although I think #11 might be more appropriate. Not a big fan of Big-0 game. |
Irrelevant again. So you would pick a guy who is a master at one thing over a guy who is a master in every single aspect of the game?
And what's so wrong about the second part? A guy actually working hard to get where he is today? Man sorry this guy wasn't born to be a 7'2" 350 pound underachieving giant. |
I let you what. I rather pick 10 guys over Kobe any day if there is a draft for it. That tell you something. It is not so much as he is good at everything. We know Kobe can do everything. So effectively did that impact the game compare to his GOAT peers is the question you should ask yourself? For instance, 90% of non-Lakers fan would pick Magic over Kobe even though Kobe is a more well, skill player than Magic. What Magic have that nobody can match is his court vision and a feel for the game that is unrivaled. Those two attributions alone are enough to impact the game a lot more than Kobe putting up 40+ppt run. It is fun to watch but not effective for a team. |
The shallowness of your preference is easily exposed. Pair Magic with kwame smush odom george mihm atkins vs kobe plus worthy kareem byron etc.
Magic needed great finishers to get his assists. Otherwise he had to be mj or kobe to propel his team to win. |
Yes, pair Magic with Smooth, Kwame, LO, Walton and Magic would make those guys play a better team game than Kobe.
To claim Mgic need great finishers to get his assists. You don't understand how the game of basketball is play. I'm sorry man. You just don't. |
Really? You think magic can make them move like worthy byron etc? How is an assist created? Do you know how steve nash got his assist per game so high? Shooters. System. Players.
Do you think nash can make kwame better? |
Magic doesn't need to make Kwame become Worthy or Smooth become Byron. They just need to play their game and Magic will open everything up for them. They wouldn't be a championship contender but they will be a better team than 7th seat.
If Magic plays in today era, he would rack up even more assists than the 1980s. As you said, the athlete today and shooter are much better. It would be an easy assist for Magic as he doesn't have to make accurate inside the paint pass to get an assist.
Also you can't compare Nash to Magic. Magic is a 6'9 PG. He has natural advantage purely from his presence on the court. |
How should kwame "just play his game" to assist magic to create his assists? Do you know what Phil Jackson said to kwame? Have you read a story about kwame not wanting the ball? Do you know why? So, when kwame, george, mihm and others just play their gam they will help create magic assists like kareem worthy byron etc could and had? Got it.
And since today has more better shooters magic would have preferred todays players than his old buddies as he will win more ships.
You are the best guru ever. Everybody needs to listen to you from now on. You are the greatest statistician and observer. A plus for you. |
You got everything twist backward. Kwame is a mental midget and some of those can be attributed to Kobe's demanding demeanor. Magic is different.
The ways players today can shoot 1-5, hell yeah, why wouldn't Magic want to play in this era? This era is design for guys like Magic who loves to play fast-pace and has finishers and shooters across the floor, 1-5. |
You said you know bball. Amazing.
Before you blame kobe for that mental gadget you should blame number 23 first.
So, you implied Magic with his approach whatever it is will make this mental gadget an instrumental one. See. You are the greatest.
Tell you what. I will take bulls of 90s n lakers of 2000s vs this modern no defense bball.
But thats just my innocent n naivette opinion. |
Kwame career is a tragic story. Getting draft when he was a HS player, developing his game with the two most impatient players in history, MJ and Kobe. So yes, if Kwame develops his game under Magic, he can have a different career, and one which is obviously better than under MJ/Kobe.
To say modern bball no defense is a joke and one I'm afraid nobody will take you serious. The defensive game plan nowadays is so advance. If you give handcheck to today player with the type of defensive game plan, their quickness, and athletic ability, nobody will score in the 90ppg. |
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business101
Starting Rotation
Joined: 25 Nov 2013
Posts: 757
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| Posted: Tue Feb 09, 2016 8:51 pm Post subject: |
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| moonriver24 wrote: | | greenfrog wrote: | | moonriver24 wrote: | | greenfrog wrote: | | moonriver24 wrote: | | greenfrog wrote: | | moonriver24 wrote: | | greenfrog wrote: | | moonriver24 wrote: | | Magic needed great finishers to get his assists. Otherwise he had to be mj or kobe to propel his team to win. Talk about efficiency n effectiveness if magic played with the likes of kwame. |
Were you old enough to have even watched that 80's team? My god, Kurt Rambis... |
Dude rambis vs kwame. Gosh |
Didn't answer the question. |
Lol. See how you hid the rest of players.
Magic is immortal. I already said in my previous post along with three others.
Everyone is special. |
I didn't hide anything. You edited.
And you still haven't answered the question... Guess you didn't, which is fine, but how you can put your foot to the throttle making a statement like that without even some basic eyewitness knowledge is pretty stupid. |
I put magic in the immotals.
Thats how I respect him.
Bball is a team sport. Teammates matter.
Everybody knows even an immortal needs good teamates to win it all.
I watched magic in the 90s.
How would he have fared with kwame n the gang? |
Better. Orchestrating and creating offense was his niche. He could score like a monster too when he felt like it. |
Not if he is constantly doubled n tripled when he is the only one capable of monsterous game. Besides his assist per game will go down if he is to score more. Cant have it both ways.
I doubt he can handle double n triple team better than kobe n mj. Unless you have great shooters to deter double triple defense, good luck. |
You can't double or triple Magic because he has excellent court vision and such a willing passer that it render the double team ineffective against him. You can double/triple Kobe because you know he will put up a tough shot over multiple defenders than passing to an open man. That is the different. And if you play Magic 1vs1, he just post you up. What are you gonna do? |
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greenfrog
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| Posted: Tue Feb 09, 2016 8:56 pm Post subject: |
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It's kind of hard to double team if you're consistently in a fast break too.
Last edited by greenfrog on Tue Feb 09, 2016 9:44 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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moonriver24
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Joined: 21 Oct 2007
Posts: 15265
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| Posted: Tue Feb 09, 2016 8:59 pm Post subject: |
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| business101 wrote: | | moonriver24 wrote: | | business101 wrote: | | moonriver24 wrote: | | business101 wrote: | | moonriver24 wrote: | | business101 wrote: | | moonriver24 wrote: | | business101 wrote: | | dmorans1 wrote: | | business101 wrote: | | dmorans1 wrote: | | business101 wrote: | | dmorans1 wrote: | | business101 wrote: | | From a career standpoint, he's 8 on the list. From a pure basketball, talent, and impact wise, he's 12. So I guess they are talking from a pure talent standpoint. |
From a talent standpoint there are three players that stand out above the rest, MJ, Kobe, and Kareem. Not sure what the heck you are talking about. |
There is nothing unique about Kobe talent. |
Irrelevant. Uniqueness has nothing to do with talent. |
He is the master of incorporating other skills but yet master of none type of talent. He is not the fastest, doesn't have the greatest vision, not the greatest shot maker or the greatest shooter, nor the greatest athlete. But he works extra hard to make up for what his GOAT peers are naturally born with. So #12 are about right. Most because he didn't have any season which stand out among his GOAT peers. No advance metric to back up his seasonal dominance against his peer. Although I think #11 might be more appropriate. Not a big fan of Big-0 game. |
Irrelevant again. So you would pick a guy who is a master at one thing over a guy who is a master in every single aspect of the game?
And what's so wrong about the second part? A guy actually working hard to get where he is today? Man sorry this guy wasn't born to be a 7'2" 350 pound underachieving giant. |
I let you what. I rather pick 10 guys over Kobe any day if there is a draft for it. That tell you something. It is not so much as he is good at everything. We know Kobe can do everything. So effectively did that impact the game compare to his GOAT peers is the question you should ask yourself? For instance, 90% of non-Lakers fan would pick Magic over Kobe even though Kobe is a more well, skill player than Magic. What Magic have that nobody can match is his court vision and a feel for the game that is unrivaled. Those two attributions alone are enough to impact the game a lot more than Kobe putting up 40+ppt run. It is fun to watch but not effective for a team. |
The shallowness of your preference is easily exposed. Pair Magic with kwame smush odom george mihm atkins vs kobe plus worthy kareem byron etc.
Magic needed great finishers to get his assists. Otherwise he had to be mj or kobe to propel his team to win. |
Yes, pair Magic with Smooth, Kwame, LO, Walton and Magic would make those guys play a better team game than Kobe.
To claim Mgic need great finishers to get his assists. You don't understand how the game of basketball is play. I'm sorry man. You just don't. |
Really? You think magic can make them move like worthy byron etc? How is an assist created? Do you know how steve nash got his assist per game so high? Shooters. System. Players.
Do you think nash can make kwame better? |
Magic doesn't need to make Kwame become Worthy or Smooth become Byron. They just need to play their game and Magic will open everything up for them. They wouldn't be a championship contender but they will be a better team than 7th seat.
If Magic plays in today era, he would rack up even more assists than the 1980s. As you said, the athlete today and shooter are much better. It would be an easy assist for Magic as he doesn't have to make accurate inside the paint pass to get an assist.
Also you can't compare Nash to Magic. Magic is a 6'9 PG. He has natural advantage purely from his presence on the court. |
How should kwame "just play his game" to assist magic to create his assists? Do you know what Phil Jackson said to kwame? Have you read a story about kwame not wanting the ball? Do you know why? So, when kwame, george, mihm and others just play their gam they will help create magic assists like kareem worthy byron etc could and had? Got it.
And since today has more better shooters magic would have preferred todays players than his old buddies as he will win more ships.
You are the best guru ever. Everybody needs to listen to you from now on. You are the greatest statistician and observer. A plus for you. |
You got everything twist backward. Kwame is a mental midget and some of those can be attributed to Kobe's demanding demeanor. Magic is different.
The ways players today can shoot 1-5, hell yeah, why wouldn't Magic want to play in this era? This era is design for guys like Magic who loves to play fast-pace and has finishers and shooters across the floor, 1-5. |
You said you know bball. Amazing.
Before you blame kobe for that mental gadget you should blame number 23 first.
So, you implied Magic with his approach whatever it is will make this mental gadget an instrumental one. See. You are the greatest.
Tell you what. I will take bulls of 90s n lakers of 2000s vs this modern no defense bball.
But thats just my innocent n naivette opinion. |
Kwame career is a tragic story. Getting draft when he was a HS player, developing his game with the two most impatient players in history, MJ and Kobe. So yes, if Kwame develops his game under Magic, he can have a different career, and one which is obviously better than under MJ/Kobe.
To say modern bball no defense is a joke and one I'm afraid nobody will take you serious. The defensive game plan nowadays is so advance. If you give handcheck to today player with the type of defensive game plan, their quickness, and athletic ability, nobody will score in the 90ppg. |
nice try on kwame.
Defense is so good today but some claimed wilt would score 100 a game.
If Curry gets 30 plus easily on this great advanced defense era, how would a prime mamba fare in todays era?
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P.K.
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Joined: 10 Jul 2003
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| Posted: Tue Feb 09, 2016 9:23 pm Post subject: |
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| moonriver24 wrote: |
If Curry gets 30 plus easily on this great advanced defense era, how would a prime mamba fare in todays era? |
Today's era began in 2002 with the NBA removing the last barriers to the zone defense and was complete by 2004, when they started calling fouls for even incidental contact on perimeter players away from the basket.
Kobe was 24 in 2004 - how much more "prime" can he be?
_________________
LBJ + AD = More rings
Never argue with a fool - listeners can't tell you apart
Wilt's unstoppable fadeaway: www.youtube.com/watch?v=8O9MgNfcGJA
NPZ's Magic Johnson mix: www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8Qbo0WqvOI |
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moonriver24
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Joined: 21 Oct 2007
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| Posted: Tue Feb 09, 2016 9:33 pm Post subject: |
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| P.K. wrote: | | moonriver24 wrote: |
If Curry gets 30 plus easily on this great advanced defense era, how would a prime mamba fare in todays era? |
Today's era began in 2002 with the NBA removing the last barriers to the zone defense and was complete by 2004, when they started calling fouls for even incidental contact on perimeter players away from the basket.
Kobe was 24 in 2004 - how much more "prime" can he be? |
Have you watched basketball from 2000 thru like 2012 or even 2013?
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Kobe's Top 5 Dunks, 81 points, MJ last gm @Staples |
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LakerLanny
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| Posted: Tue Feb 09, 2016 9:37 pm Post subject: |
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Everyone has their own opinions but I disregard any list that has Bird in the Top 10. He was a great player for sure, but it is very very debatable that he was even a top 25 player all time in the NBA.
Top 10 for Bird is ludicrous.
Kobe is hurt by his shooting percentage, it doesn't stack up well vs. guys like Michael and Magic but I think his overall game has him in the Top 8 or so on any reasonable list.
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activeverb
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| Posted: Tue Feb 09, 2016 9:45 pm Post subject: |
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| LakerLanny wrote: | | Everyone has their own opinions but I disregard any list that has Bird in the Top 10. He was a great player for sure, but it is very very debatable that he was even a top 25 player all time in the NBA. |
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P.K.
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Joined: 10 Jul 2003
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| Posted: Tue Feb 09, 2016 9:47 pm Post subject: |
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| moonriver24 wrote: | | P.K. wrote: | | moonriver24 wrote: |
If Curry gets 30 plus easily on this great advanced defense era, how would a prime mamba fare in todays era? |
Today's era began in 2002 with the NBA removing the last barriers to the zone defense and was complete by 2004, when they started calling fouls for even incidental contact on perimeter players away from the basket.
Kobe was 24 in 2004 - how much more "prime" can he be? |
Have you watched basketball from 2000 thru like 2012 or even 2013? |
Have you?
Do you think there's been some major rule change in the last 4 years that suddenly let Curry start making 3ptrs from 35 feet away?
The rules have been the same since 2004. It did take teams a while to figure out how to implement the zone, but Kobe's been playing under both the "no contact" rules and the zone rules for 12 years now.
Curry's lighting it up because he's an unreal shooter with an exceptionally quick trigger who can shoot incredibly accurately from up to 35' - those are 3 things Kobe never was.
_________________
LBJ + AD = More rings
Never argue with a fool - listeners can't tell you apart
Wilt's unstoppable fadeaway: www.youtube.com/watch?v=8O9MgNfcGJA
NPZ's Magic Johnson mix: www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8Qbo0WqvOI
Last edited by P.K. on Tue Feb 09, 2016 9:50 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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moonriver24
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| Posted: Tue Feb 09, 2016 9:47 pm Post subject: |
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The last two seasons hurt kobe statistically. But i dont think he cares much about it. He would remain stuborn to play till his body quits on him.
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moonriver24
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Joined: 21 Oct 2007
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| Posted: Tue Feb 09, 2016 9:59 pm Post subject: |
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| P.K. wrote: | | moonriver24 wrote: | | P.K. wrote: | | moonriver24 wrote: |
If Curry gets 30 plus easily on this great advanced defense era, how would a prime mamba fare in todays era? |
Today's era began in 2002 with the NBA removing the last barriers to the zone defense and was complete by 2004, when they started calling fouls for even incidental contact on perimeter players away from the basket.
Kobe was 24 in 2004 - how much more "prime" can he be? |
Have you watched basketball from 2000 thru like 2012 or even 2013? |
Have you?
Do you think there's been some major rule change in the last 4 years that suddenly let Curry start making 34' 3ptrs?
The rules have been the same since 2004. It did take teams a while to figure out how to implement the zone, but Kobe's been playing under both the "no contact" rules and the zone rules for 12 years now.
Curry's lighting it up because he's an unreal shooter with an exceptionally quick trigger who can shoot incredibly accurately from up to 35' - those are 3 things Kobe never was. |
in the curry thread I posted names of retired players while Kobe is still playing now. You might want to check those names before you begin to compare curry n kobe in their prime. Hints; Yao, Kidd, Artest, Battier, Kirlinko, Shaq, just to name a few. Soon to retire include duncan kg pierce. You know how good they were in their prime days.
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Kobe's Top 5 Dunks, 81 points, MJ last gm @Staples |
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P.K.
Retired Number
Joined: 10 Jul 2003
Posts: 29726
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| Posted: Tue Feb 09, 2016 10:20 pm Post subject: |
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| moonriver24 wrote: | | P.K. wrote: | | moonriver24 wrote: | | P.K. wrote: | | moonriver24 wrote: |
If Curry gets 30 plus easily on this great advanced defense era, how would a prime mamba fare in todays era? |
Today's era began in 2002 with the NBA removing the last barriers to the zone defense and was complete by 2004, when they started calling fouls for even incidental contact on perimeter players away from the basket.
Kobe was 24 in 2004 - how much more "prime" can he be? |
Have you watched basketball from 2000 thru like 2012 or even 2013? |
Have you?
Do you think there's been some major rule change in the last 4 years that suddenly let Curry start making 34' 3ptrs?
The rules have been the same since 2004. It did take teams a while to figure out how to implement the zone, but Kobe's been playing under both the "no contact" rules and the zone rules for 12 years now.
Curry's lighting it up because he's an unreal shooter with an exceptionally quick trigger who can shoot incredibly accurately from up to 35' - those are 3 things Kobe never was. |
in the curry thread I posted names of retired players while Kobe is still playing now. You might want to check those names before you begin to compare curry n kobe in their prime. Hints; Yao, Kidd, Artest, Battier, Kirlinko, Shaq, just to name a few. Soon to retire include duncan kg pierce. You know how good they were in their prime days. |
You've already forgotten what you said?
you're the person that said "If Curry gets 30 plus easily on this great advanced defense era, how would a prime mamba fare in todays era"
The only thing I've said is:
1. that Kobe WAS in his prime during this era
2. and the reason Curry scores so easily is that he's a great shooter with a lightning fast release and long distance range, and that Kobe was never a great shooter - he's more known as a volume shooter who's kind of inefficient, and wasn't all that great from 3pt land.
so, you saying that a "prime" kobe would light it up in this era like Curry is wrong on so many fronts - not the least of which is that Kobe played in this era, and absolutely didn't light it up like Curry
_________________
LBJ + AD = More rings
Never argue with a fool - listeners can't tell you apart
Wilt's unstoppable fadeaway: www.youtube.com/watch?v=8O9MgNfcGJA
NPZ's Magic Johnson mix: www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8Qbo0WqvOI |
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the association
Star Player
Joined: 03 Feb 2015
Posts: 1982
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| Posted: Tue Feb 09, 2016 10:58 pm Post subject: |
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| P.K. wrote: | | moonriver24 wrote: | | P.K. wrote: | | moonriver24 wrote: | | P.K. wrote: | | moonriver24 wrote: |
If Curry gets 30 plus easily on this great advanced defense era, how would a prime mamba fare in todays era? |
Today's era began in 2002 with the NBA removing the last barriers to the zone defense and was complete by 2004, when they started calling fouls for even incidental contact on perimeter players away from the basket.
Kobe was 24 in 2004 - how much more "prime" can he be? |
Have you watched basketball from 2000 thru like 2012 or even 2013? |
Have you?
Do you think there's been some major rule change in the last 4 years that suddenly let Curry start making 34' 3ptrs?
The rules have been the same since 2004. It did take teams a while to figure out how to implement the zone, but Kobe's been playing under both the "no contact" rules and the zone rules for 12 years now.
Curry's lighting it up because he's an unreal shooter with an exceptionally quick trigger who can shoot incredibly accurately from up to 35' - those are 3 things Kobe never was. |
in the curry thread I posted names of retired players while Kobe is still playing now. You might want to check those names before you begin to compare curry n kobe in their prime. Hints; Yao, Kidd, Artest, Battier, Kirlinko, Shaq, just to name a few. Soon to retire include duncan kg pierce. You know how good they were in their prime days. |
You've already forgotten what you said?
you're the person that said "If Curry gets 30 plus easily on this great advanced defense era, how would a prime mamba fare in todays era"
The only thing I've said is:
1. that Kobe WAS in his prime during this era
2. and the reason Curry scores so easily is that he's a great shooter with a lightning fast release and long distance range, and that Kobe was never a great shooter - he's more known as a volume shooter who's kind of inefficient, and wasn't all that great from 3pt land.
so, you saying that a "prime" kobe would light it up in this era like Curry is wrong on so many fronts - not the least of which is that Kobe played in this era, and absolutely didn't light it up like Curry |
81 points; 62 points through three quarters (singlehandedly outscoring the team that deserved to win the chip that year, but for the D Whistle legerdemain express); four consecutive 50+ point games; nine 40-point games in one month (or maybe it's nine consecutive games of 40+ points?); more playoff series wins over 50-win teams than anyone else; closest to the legendary MJ (ergo, IMMEDIATELY behind MJ in the pantheon [if not immediately before, who REALLY knows?]); real Lakers threepeat MVP b/c Portland + Sacramento + San Antonio; and I was 12 when he entered the NBA, which is amazing b/c that's only four more than his first number, which also equals the product of the digits in his second number; I win, you lose, the end.
Did I get it right? I think I did ... oh, yeah ... also footwork; clutch gene; hardest worker ever; beloved in China; YouTube videos; disfigured fingers + bad knees + shoulder and wrist injuries + gout + GIRD + TMJ + IBS; 12 selections to the All Defense teams; and even Magic said he's the best Laker ever. Also, LeBron's a douche and undeserving of the adoration bestowed on him. I think I got most of it. Boom, let's fight ... |
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