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crazylakerfan001
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Joined: 14 Feb 2011
Posts: 1005
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 Posted: Sun Feb 07, 2016 9:59 pm Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | Feels a bit like I'm searching too much for an answer, and I'm not sure if I'm comfortable credting Kobe for this, but, he was I think, the first toward the end of his era to show you can win with a guard as your primary offensive player. |
you never heard of jordan? |
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paolomagma
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Joined: 29 May 2009
Posts: 2414
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| Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2016 6:58 am Post subject: Re: How do you think Kobe has changed the game? |
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| activeverb wrote: | | SuperboyReformed wrote: | | This has been something several people have said this year during the KFT. But nobody has been clear on exactly what he changed. So, from your perspective, what are they talking about? |
I think it's just a cliche people like to throw out to acknowledge a player is great, but if pressed they won't have any specific thoughts what they mean. Every great player is great in his own way, but I don't think Kobe has changed the game of basketball. |
I agree. Kobe came in the league when it was ISO and post up dominant. I don't think he contributed in anyway to change how the game is being played right now.
However, I do think that he's mastered the way how the previous era of basketball played. Post ups, ISOs, footwork, toughness, grit, defense, etc. Basically, he's mastered the game of basketball.
He's changed the global impact of the NBA more than the game of basketball itself IMO.
A few players/teams that I think actually change the game are Wilt/Russell, Magic/Bird, MJ, Nash, Spurs, Curry? |
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SuperboyReformed
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Joined: 07 Oct 2012
Posts: 4083
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| Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2016 1:06 pm Post subject: Re: How do you think Kobe has changed the game? |
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| paolomagma wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | | SuperboyReformed wrote: | | This has been something several people have said this year during the KFT. But nobody has been clear on exactly what he changed. So, from your perspective, what are they talking about? |
I think it's just a cliche people like to throw out to acknowledge a player is great, but if pressed they won't have any specific thoughts what they mean. Every great player is great in his own way, but I don't think Kobe has changed the game of basketball. |
I agree. Kobe came in the league when it was ISO and post up dominant. I don't think he contributed in anyway to change how the game is being played right now.
However, I do think that he's mastered the way how the previous era of basketball played. Post ups, ISOs, footwork, toughness, grit, defense, etc. Basically, he's mastered the game of basketball.
He's changed the global impact of the NBA more than the game of basketball itself IMO.
A few players/teams that I think actually change the game are Wilt/Russell, Magic/Bird, MJ, Nash, Spurs, Curry? |
it's not a cliche. |
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KobeFace
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Joined: 13 Jul 2015
Posts: 65
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| Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2016 1:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Does it count if every time I shoot a difficult shot or if I shoot a paper ball into a trash can I shout "KOBE." |
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KobeFace
Sixth Man
Joined: 13 Jul 2015
Posts: 65
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| Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2016 1:49 pm Post subject: |
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| He also changed the game by expanding the game in Asia and building a huge fan base over there. |
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TheGOATWears#24
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Joined: 12 Jan 2008
Posts: 2634
Location: Orange County
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| Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2016 1:54 pm Post subject: |
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I recall the excitement every time the season was about to start, because you knew Kobe ALWAYS added something new to his repertoire every off season, and Chick used to gush about how amazing it is for this young man to have such pride in his work ethic and take his job very seriously.
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"Love me or hate me; it's one or the other. Always has been. Hate my game, my swagger. Hate my fadeaway, my hunger. Hate that I'm a veteran. A champion. Hate that. Hate it with all your heart. And hate that I'm loved for the exact same reasons." |
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2016 2:00 pm Post subject: |
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| crazylakerfan001 wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | Feels a bit like I'm searching too much for an answer, and I'm not sure if I'm comfortable credting Kobe for this, but, he was I think, the first toward the end of his era to show you can win with a guard as your primary offensive player. |
you never heard of jordan? |
I have.
Have you heard of English? |
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mad55557777
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| Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2016 9:24 pm Post subject: |
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If there is a ranking for how much money a player bring to a team or the NBA, Kobe maybe first or second, at least in terms of global popularity, NBA can thank KObe for its popularity in China, kobe is more popular than mj in China.
If u need examples, check out 2008 Olympic opening ceremony, kobe was the only player in the entire world(all sports) got his name changed by Chinese fans. People either love him to death, or hate him to death |
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activeverb
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| Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2016 11:41 pm Post subject: |
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| KobeFace wrote: | | He also changed the game by expanding the game in Asia and building a huge fan base over there. |
That hasn't really changed the game of basketball, though you can argue it's affected the business of basketball. But a lot more guys have done that than affected the game -- Oscar Robertson, Wilt, Bird, Magic, Jordan, Yao Ming, and Spencer Haywood come to mind. |
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doughboy90650
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Joined: 20 Apr 2006
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| Posted: Tue Feb 09, 2016 7:25 am Post subject: |
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| senthus wrote: | Have other teams fans chant MVP for an opposing player  |
I was thinking the same thing. This is probably it.
Work ethic? No. Players have worked hard before he came into the league. Can't be that good by not working hard. Significant changes are like Jabbar and dunking (college). Wilt and Shaquille because of their size. Magic and Bird getting the game off taped delay. Jordan and advertising.
Hell, maybe even Petrovic showing a Euro can play in the league and dominate. McAdoo and the stretch four. |
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P.K.
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| Posted: Tue Feb 09, 2016 12:34 pm Post subject: |
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| mad55557777 wrote: | If there is a ranking for how much money a player bring to a team or the NBA, Kobe maybe first or second, at least in terms of global popularity, NBA can thank KObe for its popularity in China, kobe is more popular than mj in China.
If u need examples, check out 2008 Olympic opening ceremony, kobe was the only player in the entire world(all sports) got his name changed by Chinese fans. People either love him to death, or hate him to death |
You may be right about Kobe's popularity in Asia (I don't know)
but the bolded part is probably inaccurate - Jordan still makes over $100 million per year in endorsements and the Nike Jordan sneakers are by far the most popular around. I read a report last year that said the amount of money the Jordan brand makes each year is over 3x as much as the next 3 NBA players - combined.
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Wilt's unstoppable fadeaway: www.youtube.com/watch?v=8O9MgNfcGJA
NPZ's Magic Johnson mix: www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8Qbo0WqvOI |
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umanasibo
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| Posted: Wed Feb 10, 2016 1:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Couldn't it be argued that Kobe changed the NBA landscape for guards once he successfully jumped from high school to the pros? Before him, the only ones who had gone directly from prep to pros were bigs — Moses Malone, Darryl Dawkins, Kevin Garnett. |
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4stargeneralbulldog
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| Posted: Fri Feb 12, 2016 10:50 am Post subject: |
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| mad55557777 wrote: | If there is a ranking for how much money a player bring to a team or the NBA, Kobe maybe first or second, at least in terms of global popularity, NBA can thank KObe for its popularity in China, kobe is more popular than mj in China.
If u need examples, check out 2008 Olympic opening ceremony, kobe was the only player in the entire world(all sports) got his name changed by Chinese fans. People either love him to death, or hate him to death |
The NBA was getting popular already, globally during MJ's run with the Bulls. I remember reading an article in the 90s on how MJ was as admired as former Chinese leader Zhou Enlai by the Chinese youth. This was way before Kobe.
So to say that the NBA has to thank Kobe for expanding or popularizing the NBA into CHina is historical revisionism. |
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Fri Feb 12, 2016 10:57 am Post subject: |
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Becoming popular in China did nothing to change the game.
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png
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| Posted: Fri Feb 12, 2016 11:07 am Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | dmorans1 wrote: | | Also, while Durant gets the most credit for the rip-through move, I'm pretty sure Kobe did it before him. |
Yah, I had thought about that one. The swing through.
But I think Reggie Miller did it prior. |
Kobe had more of the Swing Through. Reggie had more of the Kick Through. |
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activeverb
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| Posted: Fri Feb 12, 2016 11:16 am Post subject: |
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| 4stargeneralbulldog wrote: | | mad55557777 wrote: | If there is a ranking for how much money a player bring to a team or the NBA, Kobe maybe first or second, at least in terms of global popularity, NBA can thank KObe for its popularity in China, kobe is more popular than mj in China.
If u need examples, check out 2008 Olympic opening ceremony, kobe was the only player in the entire world(all sports) got his name changed by Chinese fans. People either love him to death, or hate him to death |
The NBA was getting popular already, globally during MJ's run with the Bulls. I remember reading an article in the 90s on how MJ was as admired as former Chinese leader Zhou Enlai by the Chinese youth. This was way before Kobe.
So to say that the NBA has to thank Kobe for expanding or popularizing the NBA into CHina is historical revisionism. |
The NBA's formal relationship with China began in 1987, when it began delivering video tapes of games there weekly. It grew slowly from there, as the NBA developed programs and made connections in the country, but the big boom was in 2002 when Yao was drafted. That's the event that really put the NBA on the map on China.
It's fair to say Kobe is the most popular NBA player in China, but the Chinese love affair with the NBA started before he came onto the scene and it would have growth with or without him as more games were shown there, and more players visited the country.
And, yes, Michael Jordan was popular in China in the 1990s. Probably not as popular as Kobe is there, but that's due to the NBA games not being shown there as widely back then and the NBA not having the penetration it has there now. |
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frijolero01
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Joined: 10 May 2005
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| Posted: Fri Feb 12, 2016 11:29 am Post subject: |
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Everyone knows here how much I've defended Kobe but, he didn't really do anything to "change" the game which is why a lot of "experts" won't rank him in the top 10. He didn't really do anything different. He took what existed and elevated it but, he wasn't any kind of pioneer in post moves, jump shots, etc. Everything he did, Jordan did before him.
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Thank you, Kobe. We love you. |
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70sdude
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| Posted: Fri Feb 12, 2016 11:43 am Post subject: |
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I think Kobe hasn't changed The Game much, but he has represented himself awfully well. If anything, the extent and duration of his almost ceaseless pursuit to improve and to play at a high level is his legacy. If that's changing how players approach the game - with seriousness and commitment, then yeah - he changed it.
I think he's been (perhaps for many years too) the league's best active example of what hard work, persistence and effort can yield. He worked in the off seasons harder than most, repeatedly. He maximized what his body could do. He was never the greatest athlete for his slot in the league in terms of speed, agility, lift, coordination or strength. He had very good length and hands but not unreal in any dimension. But he was excellent in most areas of play, and often too. He learned technique and he applied himself as hard any anyone I've watched closely. A+ for effort, and that's how the bell of respect for his career tolls strongest for me. |
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moonriver24
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Joined: 21 Oct 2007
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| Posted: Fri Feb 12, 2016 11:56 am Post subject: |
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| deal wrote: | | Mindripper2000 wrote: | | He's set the bar for excellence as a guard. He's arguably the most skilled guard to ever play the game. From post-play to mid-range mastery to three-point shooting, there wasn't a single aspect of his game he didn't perfect. His fg% took a hit because he wasn't afraid to take half-court heaves, end of the quarter shots and even end of the game shots. He simply didn't care and prioritized winning over everything. How has he not changed the game? Will we ever see someone score 81 points or 62 in three quarters again? I don't think so. |
Excellence as a guard?, hum, again, MJ ...
Maybe Kobe was the best in his era, but that didn't
change he game, IMO... |
04 pistons n 08 n 10 celtics.
They geared the defense against someone.
[I know pistons also did it to mj, if that qualifies as changing the game)
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Kobe's Top 5 Dunks, 81 points, MJ last gm @Staples
Last edited by moonriver24 on Fri Feb 12, 2016 12:00 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Treble Clef
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| Posted: Fri Feb 12, 2016 11:57 am Post subject: |
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| I dont think he changed the way its played. If anything, the league has been trying to go away from his style of play. I think he has changed the way it is perceived however. Back in the day, players didn't get criticized for not winning championships. I think we see more praise and blame given to individual players now when it comes to championships. |
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greenfrog
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Location: 502 Bad Gateway
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| Posted: Fri Feb 12, 2016 12:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Treble Clef wrote: | | I dont think he changed the way its played. If anything, the league has been trying to go away from his style of play. I think he has changed the way it is perceived however. Back in the day, players didn't get criticized for not winning championships. I think we see more praise and blame given to individual players now when it comes to championships. |
Team play is back in vogue. Whether that's cyclical or due to a backlash to Kobe we'll never know. I suspect cap restrictions probably had something to do with it. Just rolling the ball out on the floor for your best player is not really an option for 90% of the teams in the NBA so GM's and coaches had to get creative.
Nash and MDA also had a huge impact. |
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frijolero01
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Joined: 10 May 2005
Posts: 13324
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| Posted: Fri Feb 12, 2016 12:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Treble Clef wrote: | | I dont think he changed the way its played. If anything, the league has been trying to go away from his style of play. I think he has changed the way it is perceived however. Back in the day, players didn't get criticized for not winning championships. I think we see more praise and blame given to individual players now when it comes to championships. |
it was the result of the Kobe Shaq feud that started the arguments. The fans were divided and the Shaq crowd kept saying that Kobe couldn't win without Shaq. The media then, took it and ran with it. No one ever discredited Pippen's accomplishments. At least, not that I know of.
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Thank you, Kobe. We love you. |
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Hector the Pup
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Joined: 25 Jul 2002
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Location: L.A.
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| Posted: Fri Feb 12, 2016 12:53 pm Post subject: |
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| activeverb wrote: | | 4stargeneralbulldog wrote: | | mad55557777 wrote: | If there is a ranking for how much money a player bring to a team or the NBA, Kobe maybe first or second, at least in terms of global popularity, NBA can thank KObe for its popularity in China, kobe is more popular than mj in China.
If u need examples, check out 2008 Olympic opening ceremony, kobe was the only player in the entire world(all sports) got his name changed by Chinese fans. People either love him to death, or hate him to death |
The NBA was getting popular already, globally during MJ's run with the Bulls. I remember reading an article in the 90s on how MJ was as admired as former Chinese leader Zhou Enlai by the Chinese youth. This was way before Kobe.
So to say that the NBA has to thank Kobe for expanding or popularizing the NBA into CHina is historical revisionism. |
The NBA's formal relationship with China began in 1987, when it began delivering video tapes of games there weekly. It grew slowly from there, as the NBA developed programs and made connections in the country, but the big boom was in 2002 when Yao was drafted. That's the event that really put the NBA on the map on China.
It's fair to say Kobe is the most popular NBA player in China, but the Chinese love affair with the NBA started before he came onto the scene and it would have growth with or without him as more games were shown there, and more players visited the country.
And, yes, Michael Jordan was popular in China in the 1990s. Probably not as popular as Kobe is there, but that's due to the NBA games not being shown there as widely back then and the NBA not having the penetration it has there now. |
Kobe was probably the first player to cultivate a fan base in Asia based on his presence. He started doing exhibitions in the far east very early in his career. I don't think any players actually put in much if any time making personal appearances. |
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Wilkes52
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Joined: 02 Jun 2009
Posts: 2415
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| Posted: Fri Feb 12, 2016 1:26 pm Post subject: |
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| crazylakerfan001 wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | Feels a bit like I'm searching too much for an answer, and I'm not sure if I'm comfortable credting Kobe for this, but, he was I think, the first toward the end of his era to show you can win with a guard as your primary offensive player. |
you never heard of jordan? |
Oh my, to name just one.
Brings to mind the teams with lead scoring guards that predated MJ: the steady Sam Jones, the magnificent Walt Frazier, our own Goodrich, Gus Williams, the evil Isiah Thomas, JoJo White, Tony Parker ...
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Wilkes52
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| Posted: Fri Feb 12, 2016 1:31 pm Post subject: |
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| doughboy90650 wrote: | | senthus wrote: | | Have other teams fans chant MVP for an opposing player |
I was thinking the same thing. This is probably it.
Work ethic? No. Players have worked hard before he came into the league. Can't be that good by not working hard. Significant changes are like Jabbar and dunking (college). Wilt and Shaquille because of their size. Magic and Bird getting the game off taped delay. Jordan and advertising.
Hell, maybe even Petrovic showing a Euro can play in the league and dominate. McAdoo and the stretch four. |
The even more incongruous case of Jerry West comes to mind, famous for winning the Finals MVP award in '69, despite being on the losing team.
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“These GOAT discussions are fun distractions while sitting around waiting for the pizza to be served.”
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar |
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