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KBH
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 Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2016 5:25 pm Post subject: |
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| zePokar wrote: | | KBH wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | K28 wrote: | If the Knicks get Luke, that's fine. I think Luke is still pretty unproven. A trained monkey could have won with that Warriors team.
I think Thibs might be a better choice for us. Blatt too, I think would be a great choice.
I am surprised that Fish got the axe so quick though. I thought Phil would be way more patient than that. |
That's pretty ridiculous.
So are you arguing that a trained monkey could have done David Blatt's job in Clev. too? |
Today I learned Mark Jackson is a less competent coach a than a trained monkey. |
Not the same situation at all. Ker set that team up, Walton just ran it. Walton is being pretty overrated right now, most likely. |
I don't deny that there's a difference between managing something that is already set up versus building it yourself. But that said, being able to manage a team correctly does take a certain amount of skill and he has at least shown that he can do that reasonably well. I wanted Luke before Kerr's illness and now he had a successful training period of sorts. I still think he probably has growing and learning to do, but I like that he's played under Phil and learned under Kerr. And we're in a situation where I don't mind our team and coach growing together. And I'd certainly take that over the Brooks and Dunleaveys of the world. |
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wolfpaclaker
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| Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2016 5:35 pm Post subject: |
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Mark Jackson gets way too much hate.
Timing is also something.
You see Dray Green this year vs last? He's even better.
Same thing with last year. He was better last year than the year before.
MJ the coach didn't have Dray Green that Kerr got - or the Dray Green that Walton had this year. There was also improvement and growth from Curry and Klay.
That's why it's imperative when you build a team you build with guys in their 20's as core players. These guys will have a great shot at improving.
I think the Warriors would have been a contender with MJ still coaching them. The improvement from Curry, Thompson and Green was inevitable. However what Kerr and Walton did, is they took them and made them even better as a team.
Timing is also critical. Kerr had verbally agreed to coach NY. But when he saw what GST could do, he jumped the wagon. Smart - just as his mentor Phil would have done.
Mark gets a ton of hate for what he didn't do - vs what he did do. He allowed Curry to be Curry, backed him up 100 percent. He helped Klay as well. The kids loved him. Some describe him as Byron Scott 2.0, and that couldn't be further from the truth.
Don't get me wrong Kerr/Walton > Jackson because of a better system. But Jackson helped GST re-build as well. He wasn't with the team when the players peaked. If he had this Warriors team, he'd have them contending as well. Again, not to the level of Kerr/Walton. However he didn't do nearly as bad a job as some describe. |
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KBH
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| Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2016 5:40 pm Post subject: |
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| wolfpaclaker wrote: | Mark Jackson gets way too much hate.
Timing is also something.
You see Dray Green this year vs last? He's even better.
Same thing with last year. He was better last year than the year before.
MJ the coach didn't have Dray Green that Kerr got - or the Dray Green that Walton had this year. There was also improvement and growth from Curry and Klay.
That's why it's imperative when you build a team you build with guys in their 20's as core players. These guys will have a great shot at improving.
I think the Warriors would have been a contender with MJ still coaching them. The improvement from Curry, Thompson and Green was inevitable. However what Kerr and Walton did, is they took them and made them even better as a team.
Timing is also critical. Kerr had verbally agreed to coach NY. But when he saw what GST could do, he jumped the wagon. Smart - just as his mentor Phil would have done.
Mark gets a ton of hate for what he didn't do - vs what he did do. He allowed Curry to be Curry, backed him up 100 percent. He helped Klay as well. The kids loved him. Some describe him as Byron Scott 2.0, and that couldn't be further from the truth.
Don't get me wrong Kerr/Walton > Jackson because of a better system. But Jackson helped GST re-build as well. He wasn't with the team when the players peaked. If he had this Warriors team, he'd have them contending as well. Again, not to the level of Kerr/Walton. However he didn't do nearly as bad a job as some describe. |
I'm not denying that Jackson did a good job developing that team. He seems to be the Brooks type that is good at working with young talent. But they showed no signs of becoming the juggernaut they became under Kerr when they were under Jackson. They would still just have Curry and Thompson taking turns going iso and it's likely David Lee would have still been starting over Green because he was a veteran and the team's highest paid player. |
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GoldenThroat
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| Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2016 5:46 pm Post subject: |
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| wolfpaclaker wrote: | Mark Jackson gets way too much hate.
Timing is also something.
You see Dray Green this year vs last? He's even better.
Same thing with last year. He was better last year than the year before.
MJ the coach didn't have Dray Green that Kerr got - or the Dray Green that Walton had this year. There was also improvement and growth from Curry and Klay.
That's why it's imperative when you build a team you build with guys in their 20's as core players. These guys will have a great shot at improving.
I think the Warriors would have been a contender with MJ still coaching them. The improvement from Curry, Thompson and Green was inevitable. However what Kerr and Walton did, is they took them and made them even better as a team.
Timing is also critical. Kerr had verbally agreed to coach NY. But when he saw what GST could do, he jumped the wagon. Smart - just as his mentor Phil would have done.
Mark gets a ton of hate for what he didn't do - vs what he did do. He allowed Curry to be Curry, backed him up 100 percent. He helped Klay as well. The kids loved him. Some describe him as Byron Scott 2.0, and that couldn't be further from the truth.
Don't get me wrong Kerr/Walton > Jackson because of a better system. But Jackson helped GST re-build as well. He wasn't with the team when the players peaked. If he had this Warriors team, he'd have them contending as well. Again, not to the level of Kerr/Walton. However he didn't do nearly as bad a job as some describe. |
Of course there's internal improvement, but not even close to this. They went from perennial 1st round exits to being one of the greatest teams in NBA history without adding a single core player to the team. There are tons of teams who keep their core together for years and don't see anything remotely close to that spike. I get that you're saying that Kerr/Luke>Jackson, but I still think you're underselling the degree.
I can't think of another time in NBA history where this happened. |
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Legacy
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| Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2016 5:52 pm Post subject: |
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| KBH wrote: | | zePokar wrote: | | KBH wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | K28 wrote: | If the Knicks get Luke, that's fine. I think Luke is still pretty unproven. A trained monkey could have won with that Warriors team.
I think Thibs might be a better choice for us. Blatt too, I think would be a great choice.
I am surprised that Fish got the axe so quick though. I thought Phil would be way more patient than that. |
That's pretty ridiculous.
So are you arguing that a trained monkey could have done David Blatt's job in Clev. too? |
Today I learned Mark Jackson is a less competent coach a than a trained monkey. |
Not the same situation at all. Ker set that team up, Walton just ran it. Walton is being pretty overrated right now, most likely. |
I don't deny that there's a difference between managing something that is already set up versus building it yourself. But that said, being able to manage a team correctly does take a certain amount of skill and he has at least shown that he can do that reasonably well. I wanted Luke before Kerr's illness and now he had a successful training period of sorts. I still think he probably has growing and learning to do, but I like that he's played under Phil and learned under Kerr. And we're in a situation where I don't mind our team and coach growing together. And I'd certainly take that over the Brooks and Dunleaveys of the world. |
Good post from start to finish.
I'm not convinced Luke is a great, or even a good coach. He inherited an all-time-great roster by default. Steve Kerr had back surgery. His vocal cords were still intact. There is no way he wasn't in Luke's ear, telling him what he wanted to see that whole time. Luke was just the middle man.
That being said, I really dislike BS. I'll take almost anything promising at this point. I would prefer TT, but pickins seem kinda slim right now.
If it wasn't malicious and self destructive, I'd start a thread calling for everyone who all of a sudden thinks Luke is some kind of savior for our organization to make their mark. That way when/if it all falls apart, they'll have no right to criticize the FO for hiring such an unproven steward.
Hopefully (if hired) that wont be the case. |
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laker4life
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| Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2016 5:53 pm Post subject: |
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| wolfpaclaker wrote: | Mark Jackson gets way too much hate.
Timing is also something.
You see Dray Green this year vs last? He's even better.
Same thing with last year. He was better last year than the year before.
MJ the coach didn't have Dray Green that Kerr got - or the Dray Green that Walton had this year. There was also improvement and growth from Curry and Klay.
That's why it's imperative when you build a team you build with guys in their 20's as core players. These guys will have a great shot at improving.
I think the Warriors would have been a contender with MJ still coaching them. The improvement from Curry, Thompson and Green was inevitable. However what Kerr and Walton did, is they took them and made them even better as a team.
Timing is also critical. Kerr had verbally agreed to coach NY. But when he saw what GST could do, he jumped the wagon. Smart - just as his mentor Phil would have done.
Mark gets a ton of hate for what he didn't do - vs what he did do. He allowed Curry to be Curry, backed him up 100 percent. He helped Klay as well. The kids loved him. Some describe him as Byron Scott 2.0, and that couldn't be further from the truth.
Don't get me wrong Kerr/Walton > Jackson because of a better system. But Jackson helped GST re-build as well. He wasn't with the team when the players peaked. If he had this Warriors team, he'd have them contending as well. Again, not to the level of Kerr/Walton. However he didn't do nearly as bad a job as some describe. |
I think the same analysis is true with the Broncos.
John Fox was the prior coach of the Broncos and had a huge influence on the team.
In the end, Gary Kubiak will get all of the credit.
Coaching is tough job.
Personally, I can see how difficult it is to get the right one. That's why the people in the FO are there. They either get the credit or the blame. |
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wolfpaclaker
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| Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2016 5:57 pm Post subject: |
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| My main point was that Mark Jackson far different level than Byron. May both have that old school mentality, but MJ taught the kids and supported them. Not Byron type, IMO. |
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GoldenThroat
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| Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2016 5:57 pm Post subject: |
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| wolfpaclaker wrote: | | My main point was that Mark Jackson far different level than Byron. May both have that old school mentality, but MJ taught the kids and supported them. Not Byron type, IMO. |
That I can definitely agree with. |
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bluehill
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| Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2016 6:23 pm Post subject: |
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Different situations require different types of coaches. I think Jeanie and Jim or just Jeanie need to figure out how they want to rebuild the team, keep going for big name UFAs or try to put in place a style of play and draft players and sign RFAs or trade for younger players with potential that fit into it. If it's the latter, start looking for a new coach now especially with the NCAA tournament a month away. If it's the former, then they should wait to see who signs up before picking a coach or risk a repeat of the Cavs situation.
I would prefer the latter because if properly executed the team can enjoy a sustained period of dominance, but it could take longer to become really good. The Lakers are really young so it would be easier to implement a new system and IMO LA is not an attractive option right now for UFAs who want to win now. Also, don't see a big three scenario for LA as happened in Miami and Boston. |
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Vin
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| Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2016 6:34 pm Post subject: |
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| KBH wrote: | | zePokar wrote: | | KBH wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | K28 wrote: | If the Knicks get Luke, that's fine. I think Luke is still pretty unproven. A trained monkey could have won with that Warriors team.
I think Thibs might be a better choice for us. Blatt too, I think would be a great choice.
I am surprised that Fish got the axe so quick though. I thought Phil would be way more patient than that. |
That's pretty ridiculous.
So are you arguing that a trained monkey could have done David Blatt's job in Clev. too? |
Today I learned Mark Jackson is a less competent coach a than a trained monkey. |
Not the same situation at all. Ker set that team up, Walton just ran it. Walton is being pretty overrated right now, most likely. |
I don't deny that there's a difference between managing something that is already set up versus building it yourself. But that said, being able to manage a team correctly does take a certain amount of skill and he has at least shown that he can do that reasonably well. I wanted Luke before Kerr's illness and now he had a successful training period of sorts. I still think he probably has growing and learning to do, but I like that he's played under Phil and learned under Kerr. And we're in a situation where I don't mind our team and coach growing together. And I'd certainly take that over the Brooks and Dunleaveys of the world. |
No doubt about that. I was just saying I'am not sure how much credit Walton deserves for the run he had with GS and how much did he even do. |
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moonriver24
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Treble Clef
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| Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2016 7:00 pm Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | Shaolin's Finest wrote: | | Why does everyone think Luke would be against coaching the triangle? He played under it for 8 seasons, for Phil, who treated him like a son. I read that it was Phil who gave him the idea to coach in the first place, taking him under the wing when he was out with a back injury. I'm sure there is a sense of loyalty there and I wouldn't be surprised if he ended up in New York this summer. Sucks for us but there is a plethora of good head coaching candidates out there, so it doesn't bother me. What does bother me is the front office's persistence in hiring retreads, let's hope they don't make the same mistake yet again. |
Because he knows that the triangle of Tex is outdated and the GS offense is the triangle on steroids. He is smart enough to know what works and what doesn't. |
I think Phil is the only person with knowledge of the triangle who still clamoring for it. Most of the everyday fans who promote it can't seem to explain what it is or what it does but just think it turns any team into a champion. The Warriors and Spurs are probably the only teams out there that would win with it and that's because they are already the best teams. |
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fiendishoc
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| Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2016 7:02 pm Post subject: |
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| wolfpaclaker wrote: | | My main point was that Mark Jackson far different level than Byron. May both have that old school mentality, but MJ taught the kids and supported them. Not Byron type, IMO. |
He may be better than Byron, which isn't saying much, but he also fired one assistant out of insecurity, another because he dared ask to look at the film to find out what really happened during a game, and tried to poison the relationship between Ezeli and his teammates with lies. Players were saying what a relief it was not to play iso ball anymore after Kerr came. Please keep him far away from here. |
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KBH
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| Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2016 7:02 pm Post subject: |
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| zePokar wrote: | | KBH wrote: | | zePokar wrote: | | KBH wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | K28 wrote: | If the Knicks get Luke, that's fine. I think Luke is still pretty unproven. A trained monkey could have won with that Warriors team.
I think Thibs might be a better choice for us. Blatt too, I think would be a great choice.
I am surprised that Fish got the axe so quick though. I thought Phil would be way more patient than that. |
That's pretty ridiculous.
So are you arguing that a trained monkey could have done David Blatt's job in Clev. too? |
Today I learned Mark Jackson is a less competent coach a than a trained monkey. |
Not the same situation at all. Ker set that team up, Walton just ran it. Walton is being pretty overrated right now, most likely. |
I don't deny that there's a difference between managing something that is already set up versus building it yourself. But that said, being able to manage a team correctly does take a certain amount of skill and he has at least shown that he can do that reasonably well. I wanted Luke before Kerr's illness and now he had a successful training period of sorts. I still think he probably has growing and learning to do, but I like that he's played under Phil and learned under Kerr. And we're in a situation where I don't mind our team and coach growing together. And I'd certainly take that over the Brooks and Dunleaveys of the world. |
No doubt about that. I was just saying I'am not sure how much credit Walton deserves for the run he had with GS and how much did he even do. |
He ran the practices, developed game plans and managed the lineups. Of course, Kerr was around and had an input, but he's made a point of saying that Luke was running the show. |
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fiendishoc
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| Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2016 7:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Treble Clef wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | Shaolin's Finest wrote: | | Why does everyone think Luke would be against coaching the triangle? He played under it for 8 seasons, for Phil, who treated him like a son. I read that it was Phil who gave him the idea to coach in the first place, taking him under the wing when he was out with a back injury. I'm sure there is a sense of loyalty there and I wouldn't be surprised if he ended up in New York this summer. Sucks for us but there is a plethora of good head coaching candidates out there, so it doesn't bother me. What does bother me is the front office's persistence in hiring retreads, let's hope they don't make the same mistake yet again. |
Because he knows that the triangle of Tex is outdated and the GS offense is the triangle on steroids. He is smart enough to know what works and what doesn't. |
I think Phil is the only person with knowledge of the triangle who still clamoring for it. Most of the everyday fans who promote it can't seem to explain what it is or what it does but just think it turns any team into a champion. The Warriors and Spurs are probably the only teams out there that would win with it and that's because they are already the best teams. |
They wouldn't win anything significant with it, or else they would run it. They already took the best parts of what they could use from the offense and discarded the rest. |
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fiendishoc
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| Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2016 7:17 pm Post subject: |
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| KBH wrote: | | zePokar wrote: | | KBH wrote: | | zePokar wrote: | | KBH wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | K28 wrote: | If the Knicks get Luke, that's fine. I think Luke is still pretty unproven. A trained monkey could have won with that Warriors team.
I think Thibs might be a better choice for us. Blatt too, I think would be a great choice.
I am surprised that Fish got the axe so quick though. I thought Phil would be way more patient than that. |
That's pretty ridiculous.
So are you arguing that a trained monkey could have done David Blatt's job in Clev. too? |
Today I learned Mark Jackson is a less competent coach a than a trained monkey. |
Not the same situation at all. Ker set that team up, Walton just ran it. Walton is being pretty overrated right now, most likely. |
I don't deny that there's a difference between managing something that is already set up versus building it yourself. But that said, being able to manage a team correctly does take a certain amount of skill and he has at least shown that he can do that reasonably well. I wanted Luke before Kerr's illness and now he had a successful training period of sorts. I still think he probably has growing and learning to do, but I like that he's played under Phil and learned under Kerr. And we're in a situation where I don't mind our team and coach growing together. And I'd certainly take that over the Brooks and Dunleaveys of the world. |
No doubt about that. I was just saying I'am not sure how much credit Walton deserves for the run he had with GS and how much did he even do. |
He ran the practices, developed game plans and managed the lineups. Of course, Kerr was around and had an input, but he's made a point of saying that Luke was running the show. |
Luke was an intriguing candidate even before he took on the interim coaching position. A high bball iq player with Laker roots and people skills who could adapt some of the schemes and best practices from the Warriors over here. That he's proven himself a capable game manager who happened to set some coaching records along the way is icing on the cake.
Though like I said before, if he voluntarily decided to go take on Phil's triangle handcuffs, then he wouldn't have been the right for us in the first place. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2016 7:17 pm Post subject: |
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| KBH wrote: | | zePokar wrote: | | KBH wrote: | | zePokar wrote: | | KBH wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | K28 wrote: | If the Knicks get Luke, that's fine. I think Luke is still pretty unproven. A trained monkey could have won with that Warriors team.
I think Thibs might be a better choice for us. Blatt too, I think would be a great choice.
I am surprised that Fish got the axe so quick though. I thought Phil would be way more patient than that. |
That's pretty ridiculous.
So are you arguing that a trained monkey could have done David Blatt's job in Clev. too? |
Today I learned Mark Jackson is a less competent coach a than a trained monkey. |
Not the same situation at all. Ker set that team up, Walton just ran it. Walton is being pretty overrated right now, most likely. |
I don't deny that there's a difference between managing something that is already set up versus building it yourself. But that said, being able to manage a team correctly does take a certain amount of skill and he has at least shown that he can do that reasonably well. I wanted Luke before Kerr's illness and now he had a successful training period of sorts. I still think he probably has growing and learning to do, but I like that he's played under Phil and learned under Kerr. And we're in a situation where I don't mind our team and coach growing together. And I'd certainly take that over the Brooks and Dunleaveys of the world. |
No doubt about that. I was just saying I'am not sure how much credit Walton deserves for the run he had with GS and how much did he even do. |
He ran the practices, developed game plans and managed the lineups. Of course, Kerr was around and had an input, but he's made a point of saying that Luke was running the show. |
Being exposed to and utilizing best practices is always a positive.
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GoldenThroat
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| Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2016 7:19 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | Being exposed to and utilizing best practices is always a positive. |
Absolutely. And I think people are underselling the in game responsibilities of a HC. |
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fiendishoc
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| Posted: Tue Feb 09, 2016 6:37 am Post subject: |
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Woj on the NYK situation.
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/if-phil-jackson-doesn-t-want-to-coach-the-knicks--he-ought-to-let-someone-else-061839486.html?soc_src=mail&soc_trk=ma
| Quote: | | Golden State assistant Luke Walton is closest to a legitimately coveted candidate with ties to Jackson and the triangle – and he's still largely unproven, too. Walton intrigues Jackson, but truth be told: Why would Walton come East without an assurance Jackson is committed to the long run in New York? There's still a strong belief Jackson will eventually find his way to his fiancée Jeanie Buss and the Los Angeles Lakers. Walton will be competing with Thibodeau for the Lakers job in the spring, and who knows: Jackson and Walton could be reunited there. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Tue Feb 09, 2016 6:40 am Post subject: |
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| GoldenThroat wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Being exposed to and utilizing best practices is always a positive. |
Absolutely. And I think people are underselling the in game responsibilities of a HC. |
If you're allowed to run Warren Buffet's investments (while he's on a 3 month vacation), see his strategy and game plan, etc., and you still keep his investments humming, I think you will come out of that experience a better investor.
Same with Luke.
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Dave20
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| Posted: Tue Feb 09, 2016 6:40 am Post subject: |
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| It'll definitely come down to Thibs and Walton for the Lakers. Tough decision for the Lakers brass. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Tue Feb 09, 2016 6:41 am Post subject: |
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Luke was interviewed on some ESPN Podcast this weekend.
Let's put it this way. He sounded ENTHUSIASTIC about being able to come "home" and be at his house in Manhattan Beach. Said he was really looking forward to hitting the beach and relaxing. I really do see the lakers as the front runners for him if he wants to be a head coach. You could tell he loves being in LA.
You don't get that experience in Manhattan, NY. It's snowing right now here. 
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fiendishoc
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| Posted: Tue Feb 09, 2016 6:43 am Post subject: |
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| You must have all the same pod subscriptions as me. |
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Dave20
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| Posted: Tue Feb 09, 2016 6:48 am Post subject: |
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| I prefer Thibs because of his defense but I think Walton is a great choice as well. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Tue Feb 09, 2016 6:53 am Post subject: |
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| fiendishoc wrote: | | You must have all the same pod subscriptions as me. |
Ya know it. Great for long commutes.
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