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Kobe2Clark
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2006 1:08 pm    Post subject: Do you realize that....

..even with arguably the best player in the league, we have the least talent of ANY team? I've watched the Hawks, Raps, Knicks, Bobcats recently and with those teams it's not about talent. It's poor coaching and player inexperience that makes them losers.

Shaq and Kobe's greatness covered it up earlier but the Lakers supporting cast has been garbage since Mitch took over. Horrible drafting and even worse trades over the last few years have basically reduced a franchise like the Lakers to a CBA team and at most 3 guys who are decent or better.

I don't know if it's just Mitch but whoever is evaluating talent and making these decisions needs to go...
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VonWafer&KobeBryantFa
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2006 1:18 pm    Post subject:

Mitch is a dumbass thats why.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2006 1:30 pm    Post subject:

Quote:
Do you realize that...


...thread titles are supposed to give us SOME idea of what the topic is?
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2006 1:45 pm    Post subject:

VonWafer&KobeBryantFa wrote:
Mitch is a dumbass thats why.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2006 1:58 pm    Post subject:

give kobe the cast that KG has....imagine where we'd be.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2006 2:19 pm    Post subject:

i really think most posters on LG.net could do a better job than Mitch. I mean, at least half the job of being a GM is using common sense right? isnt it? If any of us were GM i bet we'd probably be no worse than we are right now. Im not going to get into what I would and wouldnt have done if I were GM but lets just say that any of us here probably wouldnt have done a worse job.... some of us would have even made the Lakers better.

Get rid of Mitch. If for nothing else but to give someone else a chance to turn this team around. We need new blood and a new vision. I hate to see Kobe have to kill himself out there every day, and all for naught.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2006 4:29 pm    Post subject:

I have been saying this for the longest time. Mitch really has not done a good job. He has done a pretty bad job.

Basically, for mitch haters, we are in a win win situation. If this team doesn't make the playoff, he will be fired. We will be happy.

If we make the playoff, everyone will be happy and hope that he gets lucky.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2006 5:14 pm    Post subject:

There are certain rules that can't be violated... First, you have to start with a strong foundation.... You bring together some consistent players, in certain critical areas... 1.) At least one Bigman, who can dominate the paint, and play consistent defense/offense... 2.) At least one point guard, with excellent handles, and the ability to instigate the offense, and keep the team working together... You go on like this, until you've filled all your basic critical needs, with consistent players, that you can depend on...

Perhaps, our most blatant weakness is our disregard for specific elements, or needs, such as the need for a point guard with leadership abilities, and handles. Instead, we seem to look for playerss with reputations, and just take it for granted, that they will possess those elements that we need. We just take it for granted, that certain players should fit together, just based on their past experience, or reputation. We don't look deep enough... Do they really give us what we need??

Only after you have built your strong foundation, do you start thinking about your glamor players, that thrill crowds, and sell tickets... Anyway, that's my own philosophy... Look around the NBA, and I think you'll see... It's teams that have built those strong foundations, that are starting to be successful... Sadly, the Lakers seem to have peaked, and now, we are dying on the vine...
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2006 5:59 pm    Post subject:

I can't remember the last time we had a quality impact draft pick.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2006 7:29 pm    Post subject:

I am starting to think that without Kobe we would be the worst team in the NBA. We'd certainly be one of the worst offensive teams around.

The thing that frustrates me is that I think that if we could only get that second scoring option, we'd be SO much better. Especially if he were a PF. After that maybe all we'd need to contend again would be a couple cheap role players that can hit open 3s in the triangle and do the little things.

We're already automatically halfway through the rebuilding process because we have Kobe. Many teams that try to rebuild get stuck because they never find that one franchise player to complete the puzzle. We're better off than teams like the Bulls and Celtics that haven't had someone like that since the demise of their respective dynasties.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2006 7:52 pm    Post subject:

I'll jump on board with the Kobe out idea. If he is out, I don't know how this team survives. I know a Laker fan shouldn't say that, but its true. Kobe is the team, and that isn't his fault (although most in the media somehow thinks that is).
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 12:46 am    Post subject:

I know it's blasphemy, but I'll say up front...It's not entirely Mitch's fault. Remember, when Mitch took over and PJ was still coach. PJ loves experienced vets that don't necessarily have talent, but have a solid head for the game and know their roles. He plugs those players in around his stars and it works well.

The problem is, once those stars go away, you're left with old players with bloated contracts who can't operate as well without that star. When Shaq left, we were totally exposed because we had all these old non-athletic players (other than Kobe of course) who no longer had much value because they had fit so well in playing with Shaq.

Mitch has had to rebuild from scratch because of that. Yeah, he hasn't done a great job, but you gotta put some of the blame on PJ too.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 12:49 am    Post subject:

LA4Life wrote:
I can't remember the last time we had a quality impact draft pick.


Oh please. We have had a fine draft history considering where we have been picking.

Kobe, Devean, D-Fish, Madsen, Sasha, Bynum, Cook, Walton.. only two of those guys werent picked in the 20's, and thats Kobe and Bynum. It's not exactly easy to find impact players when your picking late in the draft. We havent seen what Turiaf and Wafer can really do either.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 1:03 am    Post subject:

you are kidding, right? madsen, sasha, walton, cook all sucked(or suck). plenty of better players were drafted after them.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 1:21 am    Post subject:

We're in this mess simply because Shat F'd us bigtime. Dude is the world's fattest terrorist who was given far too much authority and leverage because people were afraid that the big whiner was gonna throw another hissy fit (Phillip, more than anyone, is to blame for this IMO). Shat's nickname should be 'The Big Sleeper Cell'.

It's not Mitch's fault because he was trying to add players who could fit w/ Shat and Phillip. In addition, the Buss' have been meddling big time (including Jeanie).
Mitch was continually drafting at the end of the draft (hit or miss country).
Every other team had chances at the likes of Ginobili, Parker, Prince, etc. and didn't take them either.
So for those who are quick to forgive Shat, just remember, he was the guy who took the Laker Franchise down into the gutter w/ him.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 7:52 am    Post subject:

LakerFan4L wrote:
LA4Life wrote:
I can't remember the last time we had a quality impact draft pick.


Oh please. We have had a fine draft history considering where we have been picking.

Kobe, Devean, D-Fish, Madsen, Sasha, Bynum, Cook, Walton.. only two of those guys werent picked in the 20's, and thats Kobe and Bynum. It's not exactly easy to find impact players when your picking late in the draft. We havent seen what Turiaf and Wafer can really do either.




Some of these picks most notably Kobe, D-fish, and Devean George(you also forgot patterson) were Jerry West picks. West was the one that discovered Kobe he gets all the credit for that. Had Mitch been GM at the time he would surely have drafted a guy like Vitaly Potapanko or Todd Fuller that year. Mitch never would have been able to pull off a trade for Shaq either. I will give him credit for Bynum and the Mihm trade. That is 2 things he did well in 5 years.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 7:56 am    Post subject: Re: Do you realize that....

Kobe2Lamar wrote:
..even with arguably the best player in the league, we have the least talent of ANY team? I've watched the Hawks, Raps, Knicks, Bobcats recently and with those teams it's not about talent. It's poor coaching and player inexperience that makes them losers.

Shaq and Kobe's greatness covered it up earlier but the Lakers supporting cast has been garbage since Mitch took over. Horrible drafting and even worse trades over the last few years have basically reduced a franchise like the Lakers to a CBA team and at most 3 guys who are decent or better.

I don't know if it's just Mitch but whoever is evaluating talent and making these decisions needs to go...



It's really true. The Lakers were Kobe and Shaq. Kupchak and Jackson were never able to draft help. Arguably Shaq convinced Payton and Malone to come for less at the end of their careers. Other than that, I don't see any trade, draft or pickup of note in the last 8 years. Now it's starting to really hurt. I agree with you, this is the worst team 2-12 in the NBA and it's not even close. It's impossible to just wave a wand and get better. Sure a trade could help, but this is a product of YEARS of bad acquisitions and judgment.
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wolfpaclaker
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 8:45 am    Post subject:

da ocho wrote:
give kobe the cast that KG has....imagine where we'd be.

Ricky Davis and Mario Jaric as your 2nd and 3rd best players?

Yeah, We'd be right where KG is.

The Lottery and 4 games under .500
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 9:12 am    Post subject:

I agree.

Kobe's the best but Mitch's the worst.
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postandpivot
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 9:36 am    Post subject:

LA4Life wrote:
I can't remember the last time we had a quality impact draft pick.


and tell me the last time you remember any team that won 3 straight having a quality impact draft pick during that run, or even 3 years after it was over? you cant. why? because when you're winning like that, you're not going to the lottery. 2. when you win like that, you're not trying to fix something that isn't broken. but with that mentality, you will end up with a broken down team come end of dynasty. its just like, how utah has been looking since stockton and malone called it quits. same principal. i know some would say, but if ak47 didn't go down last year, they would've been in the off. and.... so what. anytime you're one player from being in the playoffs, you aint ready. your team isn't good enough. its that simple.

we all see how long it took chicago to resemble a nba team. how about houston. phoenix fell off the face of the earth, after the barkley, majerle era. same with the lakers, after the 80's lake show called it quits/magic hiv. it was over for a few years. Two things have to happen for you to get back in contention quickly. 1. you have to already have 2 to 3 solid players, or a super star on the roster. we have a stuper star in kobe and 1 solid player in odom(not star, but solid with his contributions).

the next thing you have to have is great draft position. we had a decent spot in the draft. not great, but decent.

next thing has to happen is that the draft has to be a good draft for YOUR team. meaning 2 holes that you need filling need to be able to be filled by your draftees(since you're a lottery team). If the draft is lacking in YOUR teams, type of guys. then all the scouting in the world will not help. because the big boy draftees will go top 6. those top 6 are guys if you couldn't been lucky enough to go that high. would be trade bait even if you didn't need them to fill a role on your team. like lets say you already have a serious pg. but you get lucky and can draft chris paul. or draft some joker that doesn't fit the bill of your team needs. you draft paul, and have paul packaged just to make salaries work, and get a solid starter from someone else. Lakers were not this lucky.

But the lakers did draft guys that fit the bill of needs. two problems though. There were no legit 7 footers in the draft that were ready to come in and play solid center minutes right away. so you have to go Bynum. a boil of potential, that can give you spot minutes at this position. especially since you have mihm as insurance.

we also drafted Turiaf, something we desperately needed. an all night motor PF with size, strength and that can hit a 10 foot jump shot. But what happened to him was a fluke. but we have Kwame/Cook/LO(if we place at pf) as insurance. holding a spot for turiaf to come around.

lets fast forward 2 years from now. lets say bynum is a legit starter or 20 minute anight bench guy. lets say turiaf is our starting pf. how many games do you think we would win? a lot more then we're winning now. because 2 of the holes are plugged. and those holes can also help plug other holes. like the need for PICK n ROll defense. not on the ball man up de. no one goes one on one with the lakers in iso's. they pick us to death. always have, and always will.

Magic wasn't a good 1 on 1 defender. not even as good as smush or sasha seriously. but like he even said. with cap, big game james, b.scott/coop, rambis/ac green. that hustle team defense help he had, made him look a lot better then he was. a LOT BETTER. you have to play great team de at crucial situations in order to win games when you're down, or win you're playing very good teams. its that simple.

and lastly, i think we all know how much we miss laron profit. which was a great off the bench guy for kobe at the 2, or even for LO at the 3 if you want to go small with a smush/vujacic, kobe, proft, odom, mihm/ brown or cook. lineup. thats a lot of trapping defense and different offensive options. profit going out for the season is Killin us right now. the guy was getting better and better at playing his role.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 10:21 am    Post subject: ...

Mitch doesn't know how to obtain winners. He gets losers.


Loser List

Walton
Kwame
Sasha
Mckie

We honestly would not miss one of these dudes. His drafts are inconistent. Turiaf will be a winner, so will Bynum. But Wafer, Walton, Madsen, are losers. Sasha still could be productive.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 10:50 am    Post subject:

Damn! That's twice I've looked at this thread wondering what the hell it was all about. Enough with these ambiguous thread titles already!

(BTW: Ambiguous = not clear)
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 10:59 am    Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:
da ocho wrote:
give kobe the cast that KG has....imagine where we'd be.

Ricky Davis and Mario Jaric as your 2nd and 3rd best players?

Yeah, We'd be right where KG is.

The Lottery and 4 games under .500



Worlds better than our 2nd and 3rd best players. Kobe on any other team in the league would be in the hunt for a division title.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 11:02 am    Post subject:

Socks wrote:
I know it's blasphemy, but I'll say up front...It's not entirely Mitch's fault. Remember, when Mitch took over and PJ was still coach. PJ loves experienced vets that don't necessarily have talent, but have a solid head for the game and know their roles. He plugs those players in around his stars and it works well.

The problem is, once those stars go away, you're left with old players with bloated contracts who can't operate as well without that star. When Shaq left, we were totally exposed because we had all these old non-athletic players (other than Kobe of course) who no longer had much value because they had fit so well in playing with Shaq.

Mitch has had to rebuild from scratch because of that. Yeah, he hasn't done a great job, but you gotta put some of the blame on PJ too.


This is true.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 11:03 am    Post subject:

Quote:
This post is a shoulda coulda woulda post about drafting.

1999 - Devean
coulda - AK47, Jumaine Jones
2nd round - Celestand
shoulda - Laron Profit, Giricek, Ginobili

2000 - Madsen
woulda - Jaric, Eddie House, Najera, Michael Redd, B. Cardinal

2001 - None
shoulda - (get a 2nd round pick) - Arenas, Watson, Bobby Simmons, Hassell, Okur

2002 - Rush
shoulda definitely - Tayshaun, Salmons, Dickau, Boozer, Flip.

2003 - B. Cook
woulda - Josh Howard (second coming of Pip), Kapono, Willie Green, Korver

2004 - Sasha
argh - David Harrison, Duhon, Ariza.

ah well, at least we got Bynum and Turiaf in one draft....Hope Bynum atones for Mitch's past sins.


My first post in the Piss and Moan thread (and hopefully the last)
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