NY Daily News: The racial double standard between Cam and Manning on full display
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Aeneas Hunter
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2016 12:26 pm    Post subject:

K28 wrote:
I feel sad for me too. I live in a world where I have to act just the right way so people don't use my appearance to perceive me as a threat to their safety.


I can't help you with your generalized anxieties about the state of race relations in the country. I sure can question your determination to make everything about race.

The silly thing about this discussion is that the author of the article is really arguing that Newton should be held to a different standard because he is black. There is a standard of behavior that we expect from QBs. When Big Ben or Johnny Football or Ryan Leaf or Ryan Mallett screw up, they get called out for it. If Peyton Manning spent two weeks thumping his chest and calling attention to himself, then had a bad game and made a fool of himself at the press conference, the media would be all over it. But when Newton does the same thing, it's all racist. Yeah, sure thing.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2016 12:37 pm    Post subject:

I don't have a strong view re: the ongoing race debate centered around Cam Newton, but are individuals here seriously defending Bill Romanowski now?

“You will never last a minute in the NFL with that attitude,” Romanowski tweeted. “The world doesn’t revolve around you, boy!”

Romo's pejorative use of the loaded term "boy" is indefensible. There was nothing innocuous about his choice of words. No, defending THAT guy and his long history of racism is laughably absurd (if it wasn't so despicable, of course).
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2016 1:00 pm    Post subject:

the association wrote:
I don't have a strong view re: the ongoing race debate centered around Cam Newton, but are individuals here seriously defending Bill Romanowski now?

“You will never last a minute in the NFL with that attitude,” Romanowski tweeted. “The world doesn’t revolve around you, boy!”

Romo's pejorative use of the loaded term "boy" is indefensible. There was nothing innocuous about his choice of words. No, defending THAT guy and his long history of racism is laughably absurd (if it wasn't so despicable, of course).


still not getting it. Cam acted like a child in the post game. Therefore, he called him a "boy".

I understand he's shown racism in the past but, I don't see it this time.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2016 1:44 pm    Post subject:

frijolero01 wrote:
the association wrote:
I don't have a strong view re: the ongoing race debate centered around Cam Newton, but are individuals here seriously defending Bill Romanowski now?

“You will never last a minute in the NFL with that attitude,” Romanowski tweeted. “The world doesn’t revolve around you, boy!”

Romo's pejorative use of the loaded term "boy" is indefensible. There was nothing innocuous about his choice of words. No, defending THAT guy and his long history of racism is laughably absurd (if it wasn't so despicable, of course).


still not getting it. Cam acted like a child in the post game. Therefore, he called him a "boy".

I understand he's shown racism in the past but, I don't see it this time.


You must be unfamiliar with the history of the word in its pejorative context, I guess ... let me see if I can illustrate the point in a more clear manner.

Imagine a black man confronting a Latino co-worker at an all-hands meeting with this statement: "You will never last a minute in this job with that attitude. You're just too old for this Company. The world doesn’t revolve around you, Señor!". And then imagine that the title "Señor" was a term that had also been used for many, many, many years to contemptuously put someone "in their place"; you know, someone who had already been afforded lesser freedom, dignity and opportunity via systemic slavery, inhumane civil rights violations, institutionalized racism, and those sorts of trivialities. Perhaps that someone is even the ancestor(s) of the Latino co-worker, but maybe not. That's not even the point anyway.

Now do you see it ... ?
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2016 2:06 pm    Post subject:

Quote:
Jim Crow Etiquette

September 2006

Q: I am a high school junior doing a paper on Jim Crow laws and etiquette. Please tell me how to find information on Jim Crow etiquette?

-- Shaun Daniels, Remus, Michigan

A: Most southern white Americans who grew up prior to 1954 expected black Americans to conduct themselves according to well-understood rituals of behavior. This racial etiquette governed the actions, manners, attitudes, and words of all black people when in the presence of whites. To violate this racial etiquette placed one's very life, and the lives of one's family, at risk.

Blacks were expected to refer to white males in positions of authority as "Boss" or "Cap'n" -- a title of respect that replaced "Master" or "Marster" used in slave times. Sometimes, the white children of one's white employer or a prominent white person might be called "Massa," to show special respect. If a white person was well known, a black servant or hired hand or tenant might speak in somewhat intimate terms, addressing the white person as "Mr. John" or "Miss Mary."

All black men, on the other hand, were called by their first names or were referred to as "Boy," "Uncle," and "Old Man" -- regardless of their age. If the white person did not personally know a black person, the term "(bleep)" or "(bleep)-fellow," might be used. In legal cases and the press, blacks were often referred to by the word "Negro" with a first name attached, such as "Negro Sam." At other times, the term "Jack," or some common name, was universally used in addressing black men not known to the white speaker. On the Pullman Sleeping cars on trains, for example, all the black porters answered to the name of "boy" or simply "George" (after the first name of George Pullman, who owned and built the Pullman Sleeping Cars).


http://www.ferris.edu/jimcrow/question/sept06.htm
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2016 2:13 pm    Post subject:

the association wrote:
I don't have a strong view re: the ongoing race debate centered around Cam Newton, but are individuals here seriously defending Bill Romanowski now?

“You will never last a minute in the NFL with that attitude,” Romanowski tweeted. “The world doesn’t revolve around you, boy!”

Romo's pejorative use of the loaded term "boy" is indefensible. There was nothing innocuous about his choice of words. No, defending THAT guy and his long history of racism is laughably absurd (if it wasn't so despicable, of course).



Absolutely reprehensible, but then it isn't surprising once you consider the source.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2016 2:20 pm    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
K28 wrote:
I feel sad for me too. I live in a world where I have to act just the right way so people don't use my appearance to perceive me as a threat to their safety.


I can't help you with your generalized anxieties about the state of race relations in the country. I sure can question your determination to make everything about race.

The silly thing about this discussion is that the author of the article is really arguing that Newton should be held to a different standard because he is black. There is a standard of behavior that we expect from QBs. When Big Ben or Johnny Football or Ryan Leaf or Ryan Mallett screw up, they get called out for it. If Peyton Manning spent two weeks thumping his chest and calling attention to himself, then had a bad game and made a fool of himself at the press conference, the media would be all over it. But when Newton does the same thing, it's all racist. Yeah, sure thing.


If you read the article, you would have realized that this is the exact opposite of what the author was arguing. Here is a quote from the article that illustrates this exact point:

Quote:
Did you catch the humanity there? The writer clearly identified with the sullen, frustrated Manning and said that he would do the same thing if he was in that position.

All of that is fine. I actually agree with the writers. Competitive athletes who fight through a long brutal season have every right to be frustrated when they lose. That's normal. Peyton Manning, in that sense, reacted, according to the writers of the day, like any great athlete would.

What's clear, though, is that Cam Newton got no such treatment.


He is arguing for fairness in the media treatment of Cam Newton; the same (or similar) treatment that was afforded to Peyton Manning after showing unsportsmanlike conduct in the Superbowl against the Saints should be applied to Cam.

Also, it is important to realize that injustice toward any group should not be tolerated in America. To quote Obama's recent state of the union speech:
Quote:
To stand up for others, especially the weak, especially the vulnerable, knowing that each of us is only here because somebody, somewhere, stood up for us.

To marginalize or discredit an issue due to lack of understanding or personal stake is easy to do. It is much more difficult, yet also worthwhile, to try to understand something that may challenge our personal beliefs. This approach promotes personal growth and, when adopted en masse, can influence our growth as a nation, as well.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2016 2:34 pm    Post subject:

the association wrote:
frijolero01 wrote:
the association wrote:
I don't have a strong view re: the ongoing race debate centered around Cam Newton, but are individuals here seriously defending Bill Romanowski now?

“You will never last a minute in the NFL with that attitude,” Romanowski tweeted. “The world doesn’t revolve around you, boy!”

Romo's pejorative use of the loaded term "boy" is indefensible. There was nothing innocuous about his choice of words. No, defending THAT guy and his long history of racism is laughably absurd (if it wasn't so despicable, of course).


still not getting it. Cam acted like a child in the post game. Therefore, he called him a "boy".

I understand he's shown racism in the past but, I don't see it this time.


You must be unfamiliar with the history of the word in its pejorative context, I guess ... let me see if I can illustrate the point in a more clear manner.

Imagine a black man confronting a Latino co-worker at an all-hands meeting with this statement: "You will never last a minute in this job with that attitude. You're just too old for this Company. The world doesn’t revolve around you, Señor!". And then imagine that the title "Señor" was a term that had also been used for many, many, many years to contemptuously put someone "in their place"; you know, someone who had already been afforded lesser freedom, dignity and opportunity via systemic slavery, inhumane civil rights violations, institutionalized racism, and those sorts of trivialities. Perhaps that someone is even the ancestor(s) of the Latino co-worker, but maybe not. That's not even the point anyway.

Now do you see it ... ?


I see it in that context but "boy" obviously means something else and I think people are reaching waaaaay to much just because of this guy's past.

Was he (cam) or was he not acting like a child in the press conference?

Would you say he wasn't acting like a man, but a BOY instead? So what's the (bleep) problem?
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2016 2:43 pm    Post subject:

BadGuy wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
K28 wrote:
I feel sad for me too. I live in a world where I have to act just the right way so people don't use my appearance to perceive me as a threat to their safety.


I can't help you with your generalized anxieties about the state of race relations in the country. I sure can question your determination to make everything about race.

The silly thing about this discussion is that the author of the article is really arguing that Newton should be held to a different standard because he is black. There is a standard of behavior that we expect from QBs. When Big Ben or Johnny Football or Ryan Leaf or Ryan Mallett screw up, they get called out for it. If Peyton Manning spent two weeks thumping his chest and calling attention to himself, then had a bad game and made a fool of himself at the press conference, the media would be all over it. But when Newton does the same thing, it's all racist. Yeah, sure thing.


If you read the article, you would have realized that this is the exact opposite of what the author was arguing. Here is a quote from the article that illustrates this exact point:

Quote:
Did you catch the humanity there? The writer clearly identified with the sullen, frustrated Manning and said that he would do the same thing if he was in that position.

All of that is fine. I actually agree with the writers. Competitive athletes who fight through a long brutal season have every right to be frustrated when they lose. That's normal. Peyton Manning, in that sense, reacted, according to the writers of the day, like any great athlete would.

What's clear, though, is that Cam Newton got no such treatment.


He is arguing for fairness in the media treatment of Cam Newton; the same (or similar) treatment that was afforded to Peyton Manning after showing unsportsmanlike conduct in the Superbowl against the Saints should be applied to Cam.

Also, it is important to realize that injustice toward any group should not be tolerated in America. To quote Obama's recent state of the union speech:
Quote:
To stand up for others, especially the weak, especially the vulnerable, knowing that each of us is only here because somebody, somewhere, stood up for us.

To marginalize or discredit an issue due to lack of understanding or personal stake is easy to do. It is much more difficult, yet also worthwhile, to try to understand something that may challenge our personal beliefs. This approach promotes personal growth and, when adopted en masse, can influence our growth as a nation, as well.


All well and good. The problem is the writer presumes all players are exactly the same when it comes to attitude and history, ignoring the fact that players are viewed on their individual behavior and attitude overall.

Example. If Johnny Manziel never got in a lick of trouble in his life, nor made arrogant statements and didn't act entitled, he would be given more slack about how he has performed and acted in his NFL career. That wouldn't be because he is white. It would be because of how he carried and conducted himself.

The fallacy that this writer perpetuates is that athletes should all be discussed the same way, regardless of their own personalities. And that when they aren't, it is only because of their race instead of their personalities and past behavior.

As many have stated here, Cam walked right into the criticism of his behavior at the PC due to the way he presented himself prior. Not because of his race.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2016 2:51 pm    Post subject:

frijolero01 wrote:
the association wrote:
frijolero01 wrote:
the association wrote:
I don't have a strong view re: the ongoing race debate centered around Cam Newton, but are individuals here seriously defending Bill Romanowski now?

“You will never last a minute in the NFL with that attitude,” Romanowski tweeted. “The world doesn’t revolve around you, boy!”

Romo's pejorative use of the loaded term "boy" is indefensible. There was nothing innocuous about his choice of words. No, defending THAT guy and his long history of racism is laughably absurd (if it wasn't so despicable, of course).


still not getting it. Cam acted like a child in the post game. Therefore, he called him a "boy".

I understand he's shown racism in the past but, I don't see it this time.


You must be unfamiliar with the history of the word in its pejorative context, I guess ... let me see if I can illustrate the point in a more clear manner.

Imagine a black man confronting a Latino co-worker at an all-hands meeting with this statement: "You will never last a minute in this job with that attitude. You're just too old for this Company. The world doesn’t revolve around you, Señor!". And then imagine that the title "Señor" was a term that had also been used for many, many, many years to contemptuously put someone "in their place"; you know, someone who had already been afforded lesser freedom, dignity and opportunity via systemic slavery, inhumane civil rights violations, institutionalized racism, and those sorts of trivialities. Perhaps that someone is even the ancestor(s) of the Latino co-worker, but maybe not. That's not even the point anyway.

Now do you see it ... ?


I see it in that context but "boy" obviously means something else and I think people are reaching waaaaay to much just because of this guy's past.


It does mean something else, and it is much more than than just boy as in male child. The term, when directed at a black man, has an obvious pejorative as an insult meant to lessen the person it was directed at - and in much more than just a sense of maturity.

Quote:
Was he (cam) or was he not acting like a child in the press conference?

Would you say he wasn't acting like a man, but a BOY instead? So what's the (bleep) problem?


Did you ever notice that when people mean what you are discussing, they tell that person they are acting like a "child" and not a "boy" or "girl".

I mean seriously, have you ever heard someone tell someone they think is acting immaturely that they are acting like a "boy"? Of course not. They say they are acting like a "child", or they being "childish".

I have to be honest here, I have a hard time believing that you are actually that naive about the use of the word 'boy" in this context.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2016 2:54 pm    Post subject:

BadGuy wrote:
He is arguing for fairness in the media treatment of Cam Newton; the same (or similar) treatment that was afforded to Peyton Manning after showing unsportsmanlike conduct in the Superbowl against the Saints should be applied to Cam.


No, he's imagining unfairness based on the media's treatment of two different situations. If Peyton did what Cam did, the media would have a field day. If Cam did what Peyton did, you would hear barely anything about it.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2016 2:56 pm    Post subject:

DaMuleRules wrote:


The fallacy that this writer perpetuates is that athletes should all be discussed the same way, regardless of their own personalities. And that when they aren't, it is only because of their race instead of their personalities and past behavior.

I'm not sure the writer is arguing that race is the only factor effecting the way Cam Newton was treated by the media after the game.
But if the writer is stating that, I think he's wrong.

But I think the more pressing issue is that race has any factor in the way Cam Newton was treated by the media after the game.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2016 3:04 pm    Post subject:

frijolero01 wrote:
the association wrote:
frijolero01 wrote:
the association wrote:
I don't have a strong view re: the ongoing race debate centered around Cam Newton, but are individuals here seriously defending Bill Romanowski now?

“You will never last a minute in the NFL with that attitude,” Romanowski tweeted. “The world doesn’t revolve around you, boy!”

Romo's pejorative use of the loaded term "boy" is indefensible. There was nothing innocuous about his choice of words. No, defending THAT guy and his long history of racism is laughably absurd (if it wasn't so despicable, of course).


still not getting it. Cam acted like a child in the post game. Therefore, he called him a "boy".

I understand he's shown racism in the past but, I don't see it this time.


You must be unfamiliar with the history of the word in its pejorative context, I guess ... let me see if I can illustrate the point in a more clear manner.

Imagine a black man confronting a Latino co-worker at an all-hands meeting with this statement: "You will never last a minute in this job with that attitude. You're just too old for this Company. The world doesn’t revolve around you, Señor!". And then imagine that the title "Señor" was a term that had also been used for many, many, many years to contemptuously put someone "in their place"; you know, someone who had already been afforded lesser freedom, dignity and opportunity via systemic slavery, inhumane civil rights violations, institutionalized racism, and those sorts of trivialities. Perhaps that someone is even the ancestor(s) of the Latino co-worker, but maybe not. That's not even the point anyway.

Now do you see it ... ?


I see it in that context but "boy" obviously means something else and I think people are reaching waaaaay to much just because of this guy's past.

Was he (cam) or was he not acting like a child in the press conference?

Would you say he wasn't acting like a man, but a BOY instead? So what's the (bleep) problem?


I'm already on the record that I don't think he acted like a child ... I'm not invested in defending him, I'm simply saying that people need to grow the (bleep) up and stop expecting strangers to bend to their EXPECTATIONS (especially when they have no idea what it's like to experience an athletic setback at that level, much less the stress of dealing with the media). On top of that general view, I also think critics that shout the loudest tend to be the biggest hypocrites in the gallery. That's my anecdotal worldview. It's EASY to sit back and sling arrows re: personal conduct. The problem is that the people who gravitate toward that type of judgmental social commentary often seem to be the ones who have a lot of behavioral skeletons buried in their own backyards. As for Cam, he (bleep) up in the Super Bowl, then he let his emotions get to him afterward ... so what? Next ...

Here's the problem, distilled as far as I'm willing to invest in this particular conversation:

1. Romanoski IS well-known for several incidents that clearly crossed racial boundaries in repugnant ways;

2. He DIDN'T say, "Cam, you acted like an insolent child!"; he used a loaded term and punctuated it with an exclamation point. If you don't hear the dog whistle in that tweet, consider yourself fortunate to not have that additional cross to bear. But know this: addressing a black man as "boy!" rarely breaks the ice in a good way.

Cam's a sore loser. Romo's a racist, PED-abusing clown. And that's about where it ends for me ... no tears ... no surprises ... no (bleep) ... no pearl clutching. That's it ...


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2016 3:06 pm    Post subject:

kikanga wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:


The fallacy that this writer perpetuates is that athletes should all be discussed the same way, regardless of their own personalities. And that when they aren't, it is only because of their race instead of their personalities and past behavior.

I'm not sure the writer is arguing that race is the only factor effecting the way Cam Newton was treated by the media after the game.
But if the writer is stating that, I think he's wrong.

But I think the more pressing issue is that race has any factor in the way Cam Newton was treated by the media after the game.


I think the reality is that race plays a role in how SOME individuals discuss Cam - be the in the media or not. But I don't see this idea that the media as a whole bases their approach on his race.

And I would say the same goes in reverse, I think there are some writers who discuss this issue in favor of Cam who are doing so based solely on his race.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2016 3:29 pm    Post subject:

I think what Cam Newton did was unprofessional. Also he was pouting on the field, rolling around on the ground, like dude you can't be acting like that in the biggest game of your life. But, it's over and done with. Honestly it shouldn't even be that big of a story.

What has happened now, is the press conference walkout has given racists plenty of new ammunition to attack him and use that as cover. Which is unfortunate, but it's the world we still live in.

You can't even compare him and Johnny Manziel. Manziel is out here beating his girlfriend up, getting sh** faced and showing up to work hungover. If Manziel was black, oh man...
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2016 3:35 pm    Post subject:

kikanga wrote:
But I think the more pressing issue is that race has any factor in the way Cam Newton was treated by the media after the game.


Race is almost always a factor in America, in one way or another. The media and the public are going to react to Cam and his behavior based on a long list of factors, from his commercials to his attitude to his race to the fact that he is a QB and not a lineman or punter. It's the total package. I don't know how you could ever expect race not to be a factor in some respect when Cam himself talked about how no one had ever seen a black quarterback like him, or whatever the exact words were. It's part of how he chooses to present himself.

It is not realistic to expect people to be color blind. However, we absolutely can expect people to be fair. I just don't see the unfairness in the way that the media has treated Newton.

On the Romanowski comment: It may have been non-racial, and it may just be a product of the social media culture in which people type things and publish them to the world without thinking about how they sound. However, I have over 56 years of experience being a white guy. You don't use "boy" to refer to a black male over the age of 12 or so, especially when saying something negative. If you do, you know you're being inflammatory. You can say "kid" or "young man" or something else, but "boy" is a different matter. I don't react as strongly to this particular comment as some in this thread, but I wouldn't give Romanowski the benefit of the doubt, either.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2016 3:42 pm    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
kikanga wrote:
But I think the more pressing issue is that race has any factor in the way Cam Newton was treated by the media after the game.


Race is almost always a factor in America, in one way or another. The media and the public are going to react to Cam and his behavior based on a long list of factors, from his commercials to his attitude to his race to the fact that he is a QB and not a lineman or punter. It's the total package. I don't know how you could ever expect race not to be a factor in some respect when Cam himself talked about how no one had ever seen a black quarterback like him, or whatever the exact words were. It's part of how he chooses to present himself.

It is not realistic to expect people to be color blind.
However, we absolutely can expect people to be fair. I just don't see the unfairness in the way that the media has treated Newton.

On the Romanowski comment: It may have been non-racial, and it may just be a product of the social media culture in which people type things and publish them to the world without thinking about how they sound. However, I have over 56 years of experience being a white guy. You don't use "boy" to refer to a black male over the age of 12 or so, especially when saying something negative. If you do, you know you're being inflammatory. You can say "kid" or "young man" or something else, but "boy" is a different matter. I don't react as strongly to this particular comment as some in this thread, but I wouldn't give Romanowski the benefit of the doubt, either.


I have no problem with the perspective you stated in the bolded. It's a realist perspective. And at least it acknowledges race being a factor.
Which is something that isn't universally acknowledged by Cam Newton critics.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2016 5:38 pm    Post subject:

K28 wrote:
I don't need this additional data point to verify the existence of the double standard.

I didn't know that Bill Romanowski called him "boy" though. That's pretty racist. But it's also Bill Romanowski.

Another interesting question, if Cam was suspected of using HGH, would the media care?

I think they would.



Strangely I don't only baseball does this stuff matter. The NFL? Not so much Ray Lewis was alleged to have used Deer Antler spray during the SB and did anyone care? Not really.

Ray isn't exactly a model citizen either.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2016 5:51 pm    Post subject:

Basketball Fan wrote:
Ray isn't exactly a model citizen either.


Is that how we refer to people involved in murder? =)
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2016 6:03 pm    Post subject:

In the NFL? Yes

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2016 6:07 pm    Post subject:

Basketball Fan wrote:
In the NFL? Yes



Good point.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2016 3:32 pm    Post subject:

I'll never expect some of you to view these racial issues in the way that we do as Blacks, but wow.

Yeah, I'll just leave this alone.
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jodeke
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2016 4:49 pm    Post subject:

R-Tistic wrote:
I'll never expect some of you to view these racial issues in the way that we do as Blacks, but wow.

Yeah, I'll just leave this alone.

Same thing with Asian, Hispanic cultures. I don't think their views are understood because their cultures aren't, fully.
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OregonLakerGuy
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2016 8:08 pm    Post subject:

jodeke wrote:
R-Tistic wrote:
I'll never expect some of you to view these racial issues in the way that we do as Blacks, but wow.

Yeah, I'll just leave this alone.

Same thing with Asian, Hispanic cultures. I don't think their views are understood because their cultures aren't, fully.


Isn't this true of any group? With few exceptions, anyone speaking about a group to which they do not belong must be speaking from a position of ignorance.
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DaMuleRules
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2016 8:29 pm    Post subject:

OregonLakerGuy wrote:
jodeke wrote:
R-Tistic wrote:
I'll never expect some of you to view these racial issues in the way that we do as Blacks, but wow.

Yeah, I'll just leave this alone.

Same thing with Asian, Hispanic cultures. I don't think their views are understood because their cultures aren't, fully.


Isn't this true of any group? With few exceptions, anyone speaking about a group to which they do not belong must be speaking from a position of ignorance.


Unfamiliarity would actually be a better word for your point. Ignorance is a position of willful dismissiveness. That doesn't apply to most people.
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