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wolfpaclaker
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 Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 2:41 pm Post subject: |
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Jam - Just want to add (before some anti-cap plan poster bites your head of )
the Lakers wouldn't have the MLE in 2007. They would be under the cap and can sign a free agent with that money.
HOWEVER, once they use that they can then sign one of their own FA's - Like Smush Parker - to an extension even if it means they go over the cap limit.
So in a way it's like they used the MLE On Smush. There's other possibilities too (I think Green if he comes back next season or maybe even Kwame if they cut him and then re-sign him for cheap)
Lakers can have depth and contend in 2007 even if capspace is used on a MAX FA. How? Develop cheap contract players now. The best example is Andrew Bynum and Smush Parker. |
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emplay
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| Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 2:46 pm Post subject: |
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Jerry West 1988-2000 between rings - be realistic about what the current Laker management is able to do.
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wolfpaclaker
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| Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 2:58 pm Post subject: |
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| emplay wrote: | | Jerry West 1988-2000 between rings - be realistic about what the current Laker management is able to do. |
And West was the best GM ever.
If it takes him 12 years, then we should atleast give Mitch 3-4 years considering the plans. |
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iml84myd8s
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| Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 3:07 pm Post subject: |
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| B-Scott wrote: | Bottom line- Kobe bryant regrets not going to the clippers. Had he known the Lakers would have chosen a 12 yr old over a proven player like Artest,instead of building for now,he would have gone to the clippers. Kobe did not want trade Lamar odom,yet still wanted artest. ( READ BETWEEN THE LINES) He and phil were willing to part with bynum.Common sense. They wanted artest. But wanted to keep Lamar.
Bynum is 4 to 5 yrs away. You can tell when he played heavy minutes the other night. He looks clumsy,his instincts are slow. Struggled BIG TIME against a athletic David harrison of the pacers. This is why Phil does not play him. Ray allen will be right. Kobe will demand for a trade if they fail to make the playoffs againt. Magic johnson was on Cold pizza today and said it would be MGMT's fault if they dont put a championship caliber team around kobe.
MGMT aint trying. There busy choosing projects over proven players Ron artest. When the Lakers are 25-35 falling out the playoffs. You will see Kobe toss the ball in the stands and get kicked out 3 games in a row. Get ready for Kobe demaning to be traded REALGM WIRETAP |
B-Scott, you are absolutely right. Kobe and Jackson made it perfectly clear they wanted Artest. There are no doubts about it.
Jackson signed a 3-year contract. Furthermore, Jackson's health isn't what it used to be. It is not likely that Jackson will be coaching Bynum in 4-5 years once Bynum becomes a viable NBA player, if that even happens. Therefore, it behooved Jackson to add Artest to the team with Kobe and Odom if he is going to make another run at his 10th title. Jackson understood this and that is why he lobbied for Artest.
Kobe is 27 years old. NBA players typically have their "best years" between 26 to 32 years of age. Kobe is already in his 10th NBA season and the grind of playing in the NBA will eventually catch up to Kobe, as it does with all players. Therefore, it behooved Kobe for Artest to join the team so Artest could be come that consistent #2 scorer and the team defense would have been dramatically improved. Kobe understands Bynum is not going to provide value as a young player under Jackson’s watch. However, Artest would have added another all star to a young team that has proven they cannot support the greatest player in the game.
Emplay himself wrote several articles that supported the Lakers trading for Artest. This article comes across as a feel good message. Basically saying Laker fans should remain positive and patient because this is the hand management has dealt. It comes down to three big “what if” speculations. What if Odom learns to become the player he has the “potential’ to become? What if Bynum develops into one of the next great Lakers centers, despite never playing a full season of competitive basketball? What if the 2007 salary cap plan provides the additional players the Lakers need to build a contender around Kobe Byrant?
There is one “what if” question that Emplay doesn’t mention but other NBA reports are speculate about. What if Kobe decides he’s not sticking around for all these other “what if” speculations to eventually come about, since a NBA career is over before one knows it?
What if, in the summer of 2007, Kobe demands a trade after three years of average to below average Lakers basketball?
This is a possibility. Everyone is speculating that Kevin Garnett could actually make such a request. Therefore, there is no reason to think Kobe may never consider this as an option. After all, Kobe just went through a summer of considering the opportunity to play for another team other than the Lakers. This "what if" should be the greatest concern for Laker management and fans. |
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A Mad Chinaman
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| Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 5:27 pm Post subject: |
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| wolfpaclaker wrote: | | emplay wrote: | | Jerry West 1988-2000 between rings - be realistic about what the current Laker management is able to do. |
And West was the best GM ever. If it takes him 12 years, then we should at least give Mitch 3-4 years considering the plans. |
Agreed with the above-listed comments. Even this year, the Lakers still have a chance (yep, that's right) to do heavy damage in the playoffs considering that the Spurs are injured and the Mavs might have the best record in the West. If the Lakers play them in the first round. . . . . . .
What would the posters think if this had happened:
** Bynum, DGeorge & Draft Choice for Artest
** Artest is suspended for ? games
** KBrown keeps sleep-walking on the court
** Cook or KBrown is the backup at the "5" (OMG)
** Luke is playing DGeorge's role
** Possibly 2nd Team's front court could be KBrown, Cook & Luke
Gave up on the future (Bynum/Draft Choice) and the Present (Artest being suspended)
Emply/Wolf - thoughts? |
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Neener
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| Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 3:49 am Post subject: |
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Cool article.  |
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wolfpaclaker
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| Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 8:54 am Post subject: |
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| A Mad Chinaman wrote: | | wolfpaclaker wrote: | | emplay wrote: | | Jerry West 1988-2000 between rings - be realistic about what the current Laker management is able to do. |
And West was the best GM ever. If it takes him 12 years, then we should at least give Mitch 3-4 years considering the plans. |
Agreed with the above-listed comments. Even this year, the Lakers still have a chance (yep, that's right) to do heavy damage in the playoffs considering that the Spurs are injured and the Mavs might have the best record in the West. If the Lakers play them in the first round. . . . . . .
What would the posters think if this had happened:
** Bynum, DGeorge & Draft Choice for Artest
** Artest is suspended for ? games
** KBrown keeps sleep-walking on the court
** Cook or KBrown is the backup at the "5" (OMG)
** Luke is playing DGeorge's role
** Possibly 2nd Team's front court could be KBrown, Cook & Luke
Gave up on the future (Bynum/Draft Choice) and the Present (Artest being suspended)
Emply/Wolf - thoughts? |
Artest, Odom and Bryant would be very good. I wouldn't argue that. I think the trio would have elevated the Lakers to 5th in the standings.
However, I don't see how that team wins a championship. Artest is a talented player but he isn't a C or PG. He isn't even a PF - though he can defend some of them.
So the Lakers biggest weaknesses would still be exposed.
PG (Smush/Vujacic combo is one of the weakest in the NBA)
C (Kwame would be one of the worst starting C's in the NBA)
Bench still suspect |
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emplay
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| Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 9:39 am Post subject: |
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It all depends on Bynum - if he's the real deal it will be worth the wait. Fans can't understand the why the team isn't trying to get better to win today - when in truth they're maintaining flexibility once Bynum is ready.
Or . . . Bynum is just a good young kid and the Lakers are mortgaging the present for a future that may never be.
Time will tell on this one.
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bounty
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| Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 9:48 am Post subject: |
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| emplay wrote: | It all depends on Bynum - if he's the real deal it will be worth the wait. Fans can't understand the why the team isn't trying to get better to win today - when in truth they're maintaining flexibility once Bynum is ready.
Or . . . Bynum is just a good young kid and the Lakers are mortgaging the present for a future that may never be.
Time will tell on this one. |
They could at least build a transition. Especially if Bynum IS THAT GOOD. Having a dominant center allows for less than stellar role play. Lets fatten up the roster now. That would give Bynum MORE time while winning with Kobe now. If AB was the real he could probably win with these turds we have now. Saving $$$ for him is stupido
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emplay
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| Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 9:52 am Post subject: |
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bounty - and how do you propose the Lakers fatten up the roster?
And I've talked personally to Kobe about Odom - and he attributes his big scoring nights to Odom taking the playmaking responsibility away from him.
So what does that leave you as bait? Nothing any team in the league is clamoring to get.
I'll say that the Lakers have really done a terrible job with their MLE the last two seasons - that's hard to deny.
Otherwise they haven't had a lot of options - and the move of Caorn for Kwame - though a reasonable risk at the time - has proved so far to be a blunder.
Lakers are stuck - and any move right now would be a lateral one - unless they get an offer of something for nothing.
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wolfpaclaker
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| Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 9:59 am Post subject: |
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| emplay wrote: | It all depends on Bynum - if he's the real deal it will be worth the wait. Fans can't understand the why the team isn't trying to get better to win today - when in truth they're maintaining flexibility once Bynum is ready.
Or . . . Bynum is just a good young kid and the Lakers are mortgaging the present for a future that may never be.
Time will tell on this one. |
The thing is though, what if the Lakers actually get the FA's they want in 2007?
Would Bynum need to be a stud then? Even if Bynum's going to need 4 years to be a real player in the league - If they can sign a very good FA - they will ready to contend IMO.
This team lacks a few pieces, but none bigger than a third star player. Since we don't have two dominant stars anymore - We atleast need a 2 all-star calibar players next to Kobe.
So if they can achieve that - develop their other cheap contract players (Parker, Turiaf) they could be ready to contend after 2007 without Bynum being ready.
Last edited by wolfpaclaker on Wed Feb 08, 2006 10:00 am; edited 1 time in total |
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bounty
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| Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 9:59 am Post subject: |
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| emplay wrote: | bounty - and how do you propose the Lakers fatten up the roster?
And I've talked personally to Kobe about Odom - and he attributes his big scoring nights to Odom taking the playmaking responsibility away from him.
So what does that leave you as bait? Nothing any team in the league is clamoring to get.
I'll say that the Lakers have really done a terrible job with their MLE the last two seasons - that's hard to deny.
Otherwise they haven't had a lot of options - and the move of Caorn for Kwame - though a reasonable risk at the time - has proved so far to be a blunder.
Lakers are stuck - and any move right now would be a lateral one - unless they get an offer of something for nothing. |
So Kobe doesnt think there is a better player to be had than LO? Kinda weird. We all know Kobe was a big Caron guy yet he managed to get over the move. Kobe aint GM yet. There are plaenty of guys to be had that would be great compliments to kobes game. Im sure if management, or PJ went to Kobe about a certain guy he would be into it. hes about W's. This season w/out play-offs will be a waste of possibly his greatest year he can give. So far LO as the guy to make him better as turned kobes magic into 500
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emplay
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| Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 10:24 am Post subject: |
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Kobe in my upcoming article, SWISH Magazine #4
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“You can credit [Lamar Odom] with making that easy for me. On this particular team, the roles are reversed. If this was a few years ago I’d have to concern myself with that, but with this team I don’t have to. I just turn the knob off the speaker, Man. He’s the facilitator and it’s my duty when I get doubled to kick it out if I don’t have a good shot myself. Other than that I can just go pedal to the medal because of him.” |
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RG73
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| Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 12:37 pm Post subject: |
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| emplay wrote: | Kobe in my upcoming article, SWISH Magazine #4
| Quote: |
“You can credit [Lamar Odom] with making that easy for me. On this particular team, the roles are reversed. If this was a few years ago I’d have to concern myself with that, but with this team I don’t have to. I just turn the knob off the speaker, Man. He’s the facilitator and it’s my duty when I get doubled to kick it out if I don’t have a good shot myself. Other than that I can just go pedal to the medal because of him.” |
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Ummm, insert any point guards name for Lamar. Same effect. There is nothing Lamar does in particular that makes it easier for Kobe, especially since he can't convert out of the double teams if Kobe passes back to him, and because he is no scoring threat himself. Do you actually think Kobe is going to tell you that "well, Lamar is ok, but I'd rather have a real point guard"? He can't and he won't.
You can keep justifying Lamar based on Kobe's quotes all you want, but you're neglecting the context.
Lamar makes Kobe's life easier because he dribbles the ball down the court, allowing Kobe to attack from the wing. Take any of our MLE targets from the summer--Daniels, Anderson, or hell, even a healthy McKie--same effect as Lamar on Kobe's game. It is playing the wing Kobe likes, not Lamar as a point guard.
If Lamar is making Kobe's life so much easier then why the hell isn't it evident on the court where Kobe's life is getting harder and harder? If Lamar is making Kobe's life so much easier then why is Phil saying he can't trust Lamar in close games (which lucky for Phil, isn't a problem lately)? The argument is old and tiresome already.
Kobe needs a point guard. That isn't hard to understand. He doesn't want to be the point and the scorer. That Lamar allows him to move to the wing is great--but if you asked Kobe if he'd rather have, oh, Steve Nash at the point or Lamar at the point, what exactly do you think he's going to say? Jason Kidd or Lamar? Chris Paul or Lamar? Billups or Lamar? So Kobe likes to be on the wing. We got it. Wake us up when Lamar is actually doing something to stop Kobe from getting double and triple teamed constantly. |
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emplay
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| Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 12:39 pm Post subject: |
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Um - the Lakers don't have a point guard .
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LakerJam
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| Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 1:06 pm Post subject: |
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| emplay wrote: | | Um - the Lakers don't have a point guard . |
No point in letting yourself get trapped in a "hate Lamar Odom" debate. Those that hate him ignore his strengths and only point out his weakness.
Any possibility the Lakers trade expiring Ks for Ruben Patterson? The Blazers were trying to convince the Knicks to take Ratliff and Patterson for Penny's expiring K, thus they'd definitely accept our crap for Ruben. He at least brings an aggression to score, he attacks the basket and he plays solid defense, all of which we need. It would be a minor move but we'd probably win a lot of games we're otherwise losing by just adding that type of punch. Have you heard anything about this type of move? |
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DaggerInTheHeart
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| Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 1:08 pm Post subject: |
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Please tell me something will be done in the deadline PLEASE PLEASE anyone tell me!  |
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abc
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| Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 1:17 pm Post subject: |
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| emplay wrote: | | Jerry West 1988-2000 between rings - be realistic about what the current Laker management is able to do. |
From Sky at CL -- tactless, but insightful, as usual:
| Quote: | Every time I see the Logo had 12 dry years excuse I get extremely pissed. Look people when West started year one of that 12 year drought what did he have? Empty cupboard. What did Kupchak have? Shaq to trade and Kobe to keep.
When Mitch's rebuilding began he inherited KOBE FREAKING BRYANT. So don't come to me with Logo took 12 years you need to be patient. That's tripe. If Jerry West started the rebuilding with Shaq to trade and Kobe in his prime would it have taken him 12 years?
That ridiculous West-Kupchak comparison isn't even apples and oranges. It's an empty plot of dirt vs. an orchard with two amazing fully grown apple trees.
West took 12 years, pffft. No kidding, he started from scratch. Is Kupchak starting from scratch? Then never make that comparison again. |
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And 1
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| Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 1:17 pm Post subject: |
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| RG73 wrote: | | emplay wrote: | Kobe in my upcoming article, SWISH Magazine #4
| Quote: |
“You can credit [Lamar Odom] with making that easy for me. On this particular team, the roles are reversed. If this was a few years ago I’d have to concern myself with that, but with this team I don’t have to. I just turn the knob off the speaker, Man. He’s the facilitator and it’s my duty when I get doubled to kick it out if I don’t have a good shot myself. Other than that I can just go pedal to the medal because of him.” |
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Ummm, insert any point guards name for Lamar. Same effect. There is nothing Lamar does in particular that makes it easier for Kobe, especially since he can't convert out of the double teams if Kobe passes back to him, and because he is no scoring threat himself. Do you actually think Kobe is going to tell you that "well, Lamar is ok, but I'd rather have a real point guard"? He can't and he won't.
You can keep justifying Lamar based on Kobe's quotes all you want, but you're neglecting the context.
Lamar makes Kobe's life easier because he dribbles the ball down the court, allowing Kobe to attack from the wing. Take any of our MLE targets from the summer--Daniels, Anderson, or hell, even a healthy McKie--same effect as Lamar on Kobe's game. It is playing the wing Kobe likes, not Lamar as a point guard.
If Lamar is making Kobe's life so much easier then why the hell isn't it evident on the court where Kobe's life is getting harder and harder? If Lamar is making Kobe's life so much easier then why is Phil saying he can't trust Lamar in close games (which lucky for Phil, isn't a problem lately)? The argument is old and tiresome already.
Kobe needs a point guard. That isn't hard to understand. He doesn't want to be the point and the scorer. That Lamar allows him to move to the wing is great--but if you asked Kobe if he'd rather have, oh, Steve Nash at the point or Lamar at the point, what exactly do you think he's going to say? Jason Kidd or Lamar? Chris Paul or Lamar? Billups or Lamar? So Kobe likes to be on the wing. We got it. Wake us up when Lamar is actually doing something to stop Kobe from getting double and triple teamed constantly. |
I'd like to add to this if I might.
We have to remember that Kobe is still operating under a microscope where everything he says and does is scrutinized.
Just look back to last year. He aired dirty laundry concerning some type of dispute between himself and Karl Malone. This got blown up by the media (definitely Kobe's fault). He then makes an innocuous comment about "my guys" and the media makes a big deal out of that too (not his fault.
So what does Kobe do from that point on? He plays PC. He either has no comment (thoughts on Phil Jackson becoming coach again), or positive ones to eliminate the chance of controversy.
Like RG says...What else do you expect Kobe to say to a member of the media? Lamar sucks? He's cost us 2-3 games this season?
I sincerely doubt that Kobe appreciates what's been going on thus far. I mean...if he fails to play anything less than spectacular, the team is likely to lose.
But I don't think he's going to say anything negative. That will only give haters the ammo to come after him moreso than they do now. Nope. He's gonna let this thing ride so when this disaster is finally over with, fans will be left with few options as to who's to blame: Mitch Kupchak, Phil Jackson, or Lamar. |
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abc
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| Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 1:22 pm Post subject: |
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| DaggerInTheHeart wrote: | | Please tell me something will be done in the deadline PLEASE PLEASE anyone tell me! |
From lamobe at CL:
| Quote: | | I have a titilating trade rumor to post in the trade rumors. very early discussions. very. |
He hasn't posted the rumor, but since he ridiculed every trade rumor this summer after we traded for Kwame, there's hope that the Lakers are at least in active discussions.
Also, if the trade deadline passes with no trade, there's a decent chance that the Lakers will cut Slava and sign someone like Marcus Fizer or Fred Hoiberg....
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DaggerInTheHeart
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| Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 1:25 pm Post subject: |
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| We all know every GM is in discussion but the important thing is ARE WE gonna get something done thats what i'm hoping for. |
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And 1
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| Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 1:27 pm Post subject: |
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| LakerJam wrote: | | emplay wrote: | | Um - the Lakers don't have a point guard . |
<snipped>
No point in letting yourself get trapped in a "hate Lamar Odom" debate. Those that hate him ignore his strengths and only point out his weakness. |
Speaking of ignoring things...
In a thread yesterday, you chose to ignore several...how should I put it - weak points in Kwame Brown's game. The only thing you could hold you hat on to was "post defense."
Please square your thoughts yesterday with today's comments about strengths and weaknesses.
This team isn't very good. A couple of us noted this as far back as the pre-season, but was told DUDE, IT'S ONLY PRE-SEASON!! Then it became WAIT TIL MID-SEASON.
Can't you see where this is headed? Your eyes aren't lying to you.
You know that something significant must be done. And the sooner, the better. |
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emplay
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| Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 1:29 pm Post subject: |
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The 12 years is not a reason to let off Kupchak - but maybe, just maybe Laker fans should be just a little more patient than what 2 years (since Malone's knee went bad).
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And 1
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| Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 1:30 pm Post subject: |
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| DaggerInTheHeart wrote: | | Please tell me something will be done in the deadline PLEASE PLEASE anyone tell me! |
Well, I think that something will be done if not just to get something back from George's and Slava's expiring K's.
But then again, I thought the same thing about Vlade before he retired. |
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emplay
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| Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 1:30 pm Post subject: |
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I will say that the progress I saw in Kwame as leveled off - more and more Mihm looks like the better big man despite his flaws.
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