Let's trade Walton for Reggie Evans
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AirKobe8
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 9:31 am    Post subject: Let's trade Walton for Reggie Evans

He could be the enforcer we need desperatly, he'll really pick those rebs and do the dirty job on the glass.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 9:37 am    Post subject:

No, let's trade Cook for Bosh.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 10:10 am    Post subject:

Why? Reggie Evans is not the type of player we're missing, unless you think adding an undersized big man who is a horrible defensive player is the solution.

What we need is some consistent scoring and defense. Trading one of the few players who at least knows how to run the offense (although his defense sucks, too), for another no-defense player who would also contribute even more confusion than what we're often seeing out there, doesn't help us. It would only be worth it if Evans would bring things we need, which he doesn't.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 10:15 am    Post subject:

I'm not sure it's fair to say evans has no defense. The guy tries hard, but is undersized. Seeing as how I want to dump Walton and Sasha, I would do this trade in a heartbeat.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 10:19 am    Post subject:

How about Luke, Sasha, junk/picks/cashfor Evans and Flip Murray?? That would be a positive trade - for us at least.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 10:22 am    Post subject:

TEEGUNN wrote:
I'm not sure it's fair to say evans has no defense. The guy tries hard, but is undersized. Seeing as how I want to dump Walton and Sasha, I would do this trade in a heartbeat.


Luke tries real hard on defense, too, but that doesn't make him anymore successful at it than it does Reggie. Honestly, replacing 1 no-defense playing player for another one, who would also add even more confusion on the court by his lack of triangle knowledge, would actually hurt this team more than would help it.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 10:22 am    Post subject:

Hopefully Turiaf will develop into the enforcer we need. I'd rather keep Walton for the short term to help facilitate. While Evans is a great rebounder, that's about the only thing he does. If you're going to have an undersized guy manning the post, they need to be able to block shots and play solid man D, like an Elton Brand or Ben Wallace.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 10:35 am    Post subject:

LakerJam wrote:
TEEGUNN wrote:
I'm not sure it's fair to say evans has no defense. The guy tries hard, but is undersized. Seeing as how I want to dump Walton and Sasha, I would do this trade in a heartbeat.


Luke tries real hard on defense, too, but that doesn't make him anymore successful at it than it does Reggie. Honestly, replacing 1 no-defense playing player for another one, who would also add even more confusion on the court by his lack of triangle knowledge, would actually hurt this team more than would help it.



LJ - from what I have seen of Evans I would definitely rate higher on the defensive end that Luke (that's not saying much). Of course Evans is a banger where Luke is not. I would rather have Evans over Luke, personally.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 10:36 am    Post subject:

Socks wrote:
Hopefully Turiaf will develop into the enforcer we need. I'd rather keep Walton for the short term to help facilitate. While Evans is a great rebounder, that's about the only thing he does. If you're going to have an undersized guy manning the post, they need to be able to block shots and play solid man D, like an Elton Brand or Ben Wallace.


Yep. And score a litte bit, too. Otherwise, they're not bringing enough back to compensate for where they hurt you.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 10:48 am    Post subject:

How about Lamar Odom for Evans and Lewis?
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 10:56 am    Post subject:

DuncanIdaho wrote:
How about Lamar Odom for Evans and Lewis?


I would do that. It's not realistic because of the team's love for Odom as the initiator, but Lewis is the scorer the Lakers need next to Kobe.

I digress, though... Flip Murray could be a gun off the bench for the Lakers, with a green light to shoot off the bench when Kobe is out.

There is no doubt he can carry a team's offense for limited stretches.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 11:00 am    Post subject:

[quote="TG711"]
DuncanIdaho wrote:
I digress, though... Flip Murray could be a gun off the bench for the Lakers, with a green light to shoot off the bench when Kobe is out.

There is no doubt he can carry a team's offense for limited stretches.


I agree, but it's sort of like having chucky atkins part II with all the defence Flip plays. I think I read someone on ESPN calling Flip the worst defender in the league.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 11:02 am    Post subject: Re: Let's trade Walton for Reggie Evans

AirKobe8 wrote:
Let's trade Walton for Reggie Evans

Heck! I would be happy to trade Walton even for a couple of cases of Gatorades.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 11:07 am    Post subject:

DuncanIdaho wrote:
How about Lamar Odom for Evans and Lewis?


Honestly, any deal that forces Kobe back into the role of initiator is not a good one. The Lakers are trying to mimic the Chicago Bulls version of building a champion by having Kobe play the MJ role of attacker/scorer. You can't also force him to facilitate. We already know that the formula of MJ the scorer can work if you add the right pieces around him in that role. They don't know that forcing MJ to also play Pippen can be as successfull.

Kobe should not be forced to also facilitate for this team, though I certainly can understand why fans are frustrated with Odom. Still, he does a lot of things for this team that we don't appreciate, but should.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 11:26 am    Post subject:

LakerJam wrote:
DuncanIdaho wrote:
How about Lamar Odom for Evans and Lewis?


Honestly, any deal that forces Kobe back into the role of initiator is not a good one. The Lakers are trying to mimic the Chicago Bulls version of building a champion by having Kobe play the MJ role of attacker/scorer. You can't also force him to facilitate.


And yet he's forced to do that now some of the time because of Lamar's ineptitude at running the offense.

Also, why is it with you status quo guys that you think we shouldn't make a move unless it magically solves every problem in one fell swoop?

Obviously if we trade Lamar we need to get a point guard. It doesn't have to be in the same move. Make one trade, then make another. You can't fix every problem with one trade. If Lewis is the best piece you can get for Lamar, you get Lewis. Then you work on getting a point/combo guard. Is that really hard to grasp?

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We already know that the formula of MJ the scorer can work if you add the right pieces around him in that role.


This is like saying the formula of having Magic in the Magic role can work with the right pieces. You cannot extrapolate a general theory from a sample size of one (MJ being your only example). Kobe isn't MJ. I don't want to debate who's better--suffice to say both are amazing players, but different.

The Duncan-Parker-Ginobili model works too. Or the Billups-Rip-Prince-Wallacex2 model. Or the Isiah-Dumars model. Or the Hakeem and 4 other guys model. There's a lot of ways to do it.

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They don't know that forcing MJ to also play Pippen can be as successfull.


Funny, I could have sworn we won 3 championships that way.

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Kobe should not be forced to also facilitate for this team


No he shouldn't. Which is why you go and get an actual point guard for once. The point guard model works--it works for 29 other teams. If 29/30 teams are using actual point guards I'm going to go out on a limb and say there's probably something to that.

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though I certainly can understand why fans are frustrated with Odom. Still, he does a lot of things for this team that we don't appreciate, but should.


Ok, like what exactly? He rebounds fairly well. He's 6'10" with long arms, good hands and some athleticism. I'd expect him to be a good rebounder. No one denies he can rebound. Besides that? Not much. Yes, he allows Kobe to be on the wing. Hey, guess what? Any point guard would allow Kobe to be on the wing. For a 6'10" guy, yeah, Lamar is an excellent ballhandler--if we compare his skills as a floor leader to any average point guard, mediocre. The justification for holding onto Lamar is that he allows Kobe to do his thing. Any point guard who is a pass first guard would fill that role.

Hence, use Lamar to get the best second option possible. If he nets a point guard, great. If he nets a SF who can shoot from the outside, great. Multiple moves need to be made--so if the one move doesn't solve all the problems, then keep at it.

Oh yeah, as for this nonsense about Evans screwing up the tri--you do watch the games right? Where is the tri execution that he's going to mess up exactly? Personally, I'll take Evans' 8 or 9 boards in 20 odd minutes over whatever it is that Walton does. Offensive and defensive execution is awful right now, so one ought not fear moves messing that up.

If we could run an experiment whereby all NBA players were put in a pool and then say 11 were randomly assigned onto Kobe's team and played a half a season, and then we did this thousands of times for all combinations of player around Kobe and then plotted a distribution of suckiness to greatness, I would guess that the current group of players would wind up to the left of the mean, at least a standard deviation away from average. More likely, the current group around Kobe is one of the worst possible combinations such that if we were to randomly assign 11 guys to play with Kobe, on average they'd be better than the current team around him. I can say that with some confidence because only Lamar is a legit starter among the current players outside of Kobe, and he's not even a good fit in his role or with Kobe. So replacing Walton with Evans, or with a guy from the YMCA or a streetballer or a DIV III college player isn't going to have a tremendous influence on the team. Evans would improve rebounding--important when you can't hit a shot. It's a small step in the right direction.

But, hey, you win by default. Mitch doesn't like change either. And so status quo it is.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 11:30 am    Post subject:

How precisely do you intend to convince Seattle to do that swap?
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 11:39 am    Post subject:

RG73 wrote:
LakerJam wrote:
DuncanIdaho wrote:
How about Lamar Odom for Evans and Lewis?


Honestly, any deal that forces Kobe back into the role of initiator is not a good one. The Lakers are trying to mimic the Chicago Bulls version of building a champion by having Kobe play the MJ role of attacker/scorer. You can't also force him to facilitate.


And yet he's forced to do that now some of the time because of Lamar's ineptitude at running the offense.

Also, why is it with you status quo guys that you think we shouldn't make a move unless it magically solves every problem in one fell swoop?

Obviously if we trade Lamar we need to get a point guard. It doesn't have to be in the same move. Make one trade, then make another. You can't fix every problem with one trade. If Lewis is the best piece you can get for Lamar, you get Lewis. Then you work on getting a point/combo guard. Is that really hard to grasp?

Quote:
We already know that the formula of MJ the scorer can work if you add the right pieces around him in that role.


This is like saying the formula of having Magic in the Magic role can work with the right pieces. You cannot extrapolate a general theory from a sample size of one (MJ being your only example). Kobe isn't MJ. I don't want to debate who's better--suffice to say both are amazing players, but different.

The Duncan-Parker-Ginobili model works too. Or the Billups-Rip-Prince-Wallacex2 model. Or the Isiah-Dumars model. Or the Hakeem and 4 other guys model. There's a lot of ways to do it.

Quote:
They don't know that forcing MJ to also play Pippen can be as successfull.


Funny, I could have sworn we won 3 championships that way.

Quote:
Kobe should not be forced to also facilitate for this team


No he shouldn't. Which is why you go and get an actual point guard for once. The point guard model works--it works for 29 other teams. If 29/30 teams are using actual point guards I'm going to go out on a limb and say there's probably something to that.

Quote:
though I certainly can understand why fans are frustrated with Odom. Still, he does a lot of things for this team that we don't appreciate, but should.


Ok, like what exactly? He rebounds fairly well. He's 6'10" with long arms, good hands and some athleticism. I'd expect him to be a good rebounder. No one denies he can rebound. Besides that? Not much. Yes, he allows Kobe to be on the wing. Hey, guess what? Any point guard would allow Kobe to be on the wing. For a 6'10" guy, yeah, Lamar is an excellent ballhandler--if we compare his skills as a floor leader to any average point guard, mediocre. The justification for holding onto Lamar is that he allows Kobe to do his thing. Any point guard who is a pass first guard would fill that role.

Hence, use Lamar to get the best second option possible. If he nets a point guard, great. If he nets a SF who can shoot from the outside, great. Multiple moves need to be made--so if the one move doesn't solve all the problems, then keep at it.

Oh yeah, as for this nonsense about Evans screwing up the tri--you do watch the games right? Where is the tri execution that he's going to mess up exactly? Personally, I'll take Evans' 8 or 9 boards in 20 odd minutes over whatever it is that Walton does. Offensive and defensive execution is awful right now, so one ought not fear moves messing that up.

If we could run an experiment whereby all NBA players were put in a pool and then say 11 were randomly assigned onto Kobe's team and played a half a season, and then we did this thousands of times for all combinations of player around Kobe and then plotted a distribution of suckiness to greatness, I would guess that the current group of players would wind up to the left of the mean, at least a standard deviation away from average. More likely, the current group around Kobe is one of the worst possible combinations such that if we were to randomly assign 11 guys to play with Kobe, on average they'd be better than the current team around him. I can say that with some confidence because only Lamar is a legit starter among the current players outside of Kobe, and he's not even a good fit in his role or with Kobe. So replacing Walton with Evans, or with a guy from the YMCA or a streetballer or a DIV III college player isn't going to have a tremendous influence on the team. Evans would improve rebounding--important when you can't hit a shot. It's a small step in the right direction.

But, hey, you win by default. Mitch doesn't like change either. And so status quo it is.


You know, it isn't necessary to have a jerky attitude everytime you disagree with someone.

In any event, Kobe is now forced to initiate because Odom has been injured. Prior to that, Kobe has not been initiating, Odom has. It's merely your blind hatred for Odom that's making you exaggerate.

Contrary to your smart-ass comments, I have no problem with change. I do have a problem with foolish change made simply because we're struggling and fans are acting desperate. Odom is not the crux of everything that's wrong with this team. The lack of a 2nd scorer is placing far more emphasis on his weaknesses, but that doesn't make everything he contributes somehow non-existent or lesser than. He plays a vital role on this team, regardless of how much you want to sweep that under the rug. If he's traded, then the things he contributes must be replaced.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 12:04 pm    Post subject:

I think trade Luke and George for Evan and Murray would be a good trade!
But I don't think sonic would want to get Luke........
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 1:46 pm    Post subject:

I dont think my high school team wants to get Luke.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 2:02 pm    Post subject:

Panthas wrote:
I dont think my high school team wants to get Luke.


You guys have a Reggie Evans there too?
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 2:26 pm    Post subject:

AirKobe8 wrote:
Panthas wrote:
I dont think my high school team wants to get Luke.


You guys have a Reggie Evans there too?


Yeah but hes a 5'6 white guy that sits the bench.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 2:38 pm    Post subject:

Somehow, I don't think the rest of the NBA thinks quite that highly of Luke.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 4:07 pm    Post subject:

We can't trade Walton because .........uhm, uhm, uhm, uhm, oh yeah, he knows the triangle.....Uhm, doesn't he?
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 4:11 pm    Post subject:

TLT wrote:
We can't trade Walton because .........uhm, uhm, uhm, uhm, oh yeah, he knows the triangle.....Uhm, doesn't he?


And don't forget, cuz no one else wants him

Ever wonder what Bill Walton says to his son? Bill was an awesome player when he wasn't hurt, so I wonder what he says to his son who sucks? And I wonder what kind of dirt Bill as an announcer is forced to sit on since he gets the inside scoop on the Lakers locker room through his son...
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 4:13 pm    Post subject:

Let's trade him for any guard that can stay in front of those small guards or a backup that can score a bucket or two or maybe someone that won't get posted up on 3 straight times during crunchtime. I just want some help for team so we can make the play-offs.
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