What causes stone hands?
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Surfitall
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 10:08 am    Post subject: What causes stone hands?

Just thinking about players who have a difficult time hanging onto the ball when rebounding, receiving passes, going up for a shot, Etc. Samaki Walker comes to mind, so does Kwame.

Is it a lack of coordination? Is it strength in the arms, forearms, hands, fingers? Is it small hands? (Don't even go there!) Is it desire? Can it be improved?

Just wondering.
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karlmalonefan
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 10:09 am    Post subject:

I think 1.Fear (performance anxiety) and 2. Thinking too much (because of #1.) I think it's mostly psychological, although lack of coordination is also a factor...some people just aren't good with their hands and don't have good hand/eye coordination...

Last edited by karlmalonefan on Tue Feb 07, 2006 10:13 am; edited 1 time in total
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Surfitall
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 10:11 am    Post subject:

Ah yes, fear! I didn't think of that. Nerves. Jitters. Yes, makes sense. That's a tougher one to overcome.
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akula
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 10:14 am    Post subject:

hand eye coordination. it cannot be taught.
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angrypuppy
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 10:14 am    Post subject: Re: What causes stone hands?

Surfitall wrote:
Just thinking about players who have a difficult time hanging onto the ball when rebounding, receiving passes, going up for a shot, Etc. Samaki Walker comes to mind, so does Kwame.

Is it a lack of coordination? Is it strength in the arms, forearms, hands, fingers? Is it small hands? (Don't even go there!) Is it desire? Can it be improved?

Just wondering.



Any or all the above, though you can add "inability to relax the hands" to the list. Tension makes your hand muscles tighten, which can make them as hard as boards. Once you relax, those muscles act a cushions. Easier said than done for some players, and that could be due to concentration or anticipation (you expect to drop it, so you tighten up, and since you tighten up, you drop the ball, repeat cycle).
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dgrynch
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 10:14 am    Post subject:

I don't understand Kwame. He has a perfect basketball body and looks as strong as an ox. He plays so soft. Maybe he plays basketball because of his height and doesn't really have a passion for the sport. He damn sure plays like it.
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Ozendorph
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 10:20 am    Post subject:

1. Underdeveloped nervous system (Similar to my beagle).

2. Chi flow blockage (His kung fu is very not good).

3. Epidermis Granitus (Hands are actually made of stone).


In the case of our boy Kwame, I'd have to say it's #2. His brain is clearly not in direct contact with his extremities, and this is likely the result of improper tension and a confused mindstate.
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thumpinghead
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 10:23 am    Post subject:

Ozendorph wrote:
1. Underdeveloped nervous system (Similar to my beagle).

2. Chi flow blockage (His kung fu is very not good).

3. Epidermis Granitus (Hands are actually made of stone).


In the case of our boy Kwame, I'd have to say it's #2. His brain is clearly not in direct contact with his extremities, and this is likely the result of improper tension and a confused mindstate.


Why can't Phil and Kareem work with him. Teach him to atleast catch rebounds, steals, blocks, loose balls, alley-oops....I mean why?????????????
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TEEGUNN
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 10:25 am    Post subject:

akula wrote:
hand eye coordination. it cannot be taught.


Of course some are blessed with more natural hand/eye coordination that others, but h/e coordination can certainly be improved upon. Practice. Catching pass after pass. Learning to concentrate on the ball. Juggling (I'm not kidding). Juggling is a great way to improve h/e coordination.

So it can be improved upon, but I doubt a guy like Kwame will ever have "soft" hands. He truly has hands of stone lathered up with butter. He doesn't "shoot" the ball, he throws it in the general direction of the hoop.
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msb212
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 10:32 am    Post subject:

making 30 million before you are 25
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Ozendorph
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 10:34 am    Post subject:

thumpinghead wrote:


Why can't Phil and Kareem work with him. Teach him to atleast catch rebounds, steals, blocks, loose balls, alley-oops....I mean why?????????????


One of two possible reasons:

1. Maybe a basketball coach isn't the right guy for this task. A sports psychologist (or heck, maybe a plain old shrink) might get better results. Considering he only becomes spasmodic when he's got the ball on the offensive end, it's a safe bet he's got a mental issue that needs to be resolved (not simply a lack of coordination).

2. You can't pour tea for someone when their cup is full. In other words, if this young man thinks he already knows the answers, he will be unwilling to learn.

He's got a chip on his shoulder, but I doubt he's pushing away help from the likes of Kareem or Phil. It's probably a mental issue.
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Surfitall
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 10:37 am    Post subject:

[quote="Ozendorph"]

3. Epidermis Granitus (Hands are actually made of stone).
[quote]

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karlmalonefan
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 10:40 am    Post subject:

I thought I read somewhere in a kareem interview that he hasn't worked much with kwame because kwame sees himself as a 'facing the basket' type player and so has no use for what kareem is teaching...someone on the coaching staff (phil) or on the team (kobe) needs to slap him upside his head and tell him to wake up and learn from the master while he has the chance if he ever wants to improve...truly moronic of kwame, if true... :roll:
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Ozendorph
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 10:44 am    Post subject:

karlmalonefan wrote:
I thought I read somewhere in a kareem interview that he hasn't worked much with kwame because kwame sees himself as a 'facing the basket' type player and so has no use for what kareem is teaching...someone on the coaching staff (phil) or on the team (kobe) needs to slap him upside his head and tell him to wake up and learn from the master while he has the chance if he ever wants to improve...truly moronic of kwame, if true... :roll:


Yeah, that's why I had to allow for the "full cup" scenario. Hopefully not the case, because that would be a serious waste of potential. F*** pride, it's just baggage.
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Smel Counts
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 10:58 am    Post subject:

Restrict what little softness he already has in his hands. Go through endless catching/layup drills w/ swim paddles or modified ping-pong paddles attached to his hands. Practice w/ a giant ball. Catching drills w/ very dark glasses/ or in a darkened room to help improve hand/eye coordination. I'm serious, all these things/drills exist.

He also needs to become game-time automatic from 15-18 feet and FT line (ala Karl Malone-he really has a Malone type of body and quickness, which should be cultivated in a similar manner). This only comes w/ thousands of jumpers in practice and a PG who's looking to improve his confidence.
IMO a big mistake was publicly making the playoffs our goal this year. It should have been learning the triangle as a group so we can begin to kill next year. We would have been close to the playoffs either way.
Phil also should have come aboard last year to begin teaching when they knew he was coming back. What the hell was that? (I know it's easier said than done but Kobe cannot simultaneously improve his teammates tri-skills while single-handedly trying to win games-And don't give me that Magic/Stockton didn't improve their teammates BS ).
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karlmalonefan
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 11:03 am    Post subject:

With Kwame, it's mostly mental...it has to be, because he shows flashes of brilliance, it just doesn't last...i liked the suggestion of a shrink...phil, get him an appointment with yours asap...
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Smel Counts
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 11:06 am    Post subject:

I read about the Kareem thing too, but Kwame cannot ever be a hook-shot guy w/ those flippers he calls hands. He's too easily stripped in the post as well.
He has to be a Karl Malone type of PF/offensive player (face-up/catch and shoot/get to the line) to ever be considered a good player. As his jumper improves, defenders will crowd him and he'll blow by them. Just like Malone, people aren't gonna take charges from this speeding truck, not more than once at least. A Malone like mean streak wouldn't hurt either.
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bambam
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 11:10 am    Post subject:

Surfitall wrote:
Ah yes, fear! I didn't think of that. Nerves. Jitters. Yes, makes sense. That's a tougher one to overcome.


i wonder how kames does in practice? especially w/ his hands

that would be interesting to know.
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karlmalonefan
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 11:11 am    Post subject:

I agree...I'm not saying he needs to develop a hook shot, but he does need some instruction about how to play around the basket, without getting stripped...you know, like making point blank layups and dunks...things kwame has helped mihm develop. Things that will boost his confidence...then he can go on to those fancy up and unders and spin moves...he's trying to walk before he can crawl...baby steps and fundamentals is what kwame needs...
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postandpivot
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 11:41 am    Post subject:

akula wrote:
hand eye coordination. it cannot be taught.

not true.

if someone really wanted kwame to progress over night, they have to work with him all day and night on catching drills. over, and over and over and over and over and over and over again. then do it during the game. and tell kobe and whoever else, to keep feeding him the ball until he figures it out. win or lose. what this will do is boost his confidence. and get him use to receiving the pass correctly. so the next time the ball isn't coming his way, he wont forget how to catch if it does come his way 2 minutes later.

I've seen a many of big man that cant catch. and I made them catch it so many times when we played to the point where they would either quit and walk off the court. or eventually get it together. the problem with the nba is. they dont have time to teach a guy like kwame that basic fundamental of bball. its like being in calculus but you dont know how to do fractions. the teacher in most cases will not go back just to bring you up to speed. now a great teacher will do so. and work with you until you get it. because once you do, you will most likely excel pass those who already were good at fraction and were doing so so in calculus. same for kwame. its worth the time to teach this guy. once he gets it. its on. but if you dont think its worth it. at the worse case scenario he's a body for defensive purposes.
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RJBaca
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 11:52 am    Post subject:

stone heart
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orwell
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 11:56 am    Post subject: Re: What causes stone hands?

Surfitall wrote:
What causes stone hands?

Dunno. We should ask Kwame Brown?
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unggoy
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 12:06 pm    Post subject:

Hand-eye coordination certainly can be improved on, as a couple of posters have pointed out. As well as the drills already mentioned, a lot of WRs are turning to a 'small ball' approach to receiving. Getting tennis balls fired at you from close range is something a lot of guys are doing. Also, the 'speed receiving' drill (which you may have seen this weekend in the college FB skills competition), where balls are shot of machines in a rotating, 12-3-6-9 format. All of these most definitely help your receiving skills, but it's up to the athlete to actually want to put in the work to improve.
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eniq 0x00
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 12:25 pm    Post subject:

karlmalonefan wrote:
With Kwame, it's mostly mental...it has to be, because he shows flashes of brilliance, it just doesn't last...i liked the suggestion of a shrink...phil, get him an appointment with yours asap...


Yes, he has, which is why I'm gonna give him time.
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turbulent
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 12:26 pm    Post subject:

in kwames's case, it is not directly related to him having big stones....

Last edited by turbulent on Tue Feb 07, 2006 12:29 pm; edited 1 time in total
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