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ringfinger
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 Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 6:48 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | Honeymoon is over.
But hotseat? Way too soon.
He got saddled with a total rebuild team. Give him some vets who can play. |
Maybe not the hot seat, but, he should definitely be under scrutiny. Yes, he got saddled with a total rebuild team but we knew that going in and the team is well below expectations. Were the expectations off? Perhaps.
Even still, the main reason Luke is officially on my <bleep> list until he proves otherwise, is because I don't really feel like he has given the team or us fans anything to build upon for next season. That's all we wanted ultimately.
We have no semblance of showing any form of defensive ability. We are not rounding in to form offensively. Roles still remain undefined. He has no clue if JC is a bench 2 or a starting 1, or DLO is a starting 1 or starting 2 or bench guard. We aren't good at any one thing. We can't even shoot free throws! |
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adkindo
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| Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 6:51 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | Honeymoon is over.
But hotseat? Way too soon.
He got saddled with a total rebuild team. Give him some vets who can play. |
he has probably one of the 5 coldest seats in the NBA right now....he will get two more years without much to worry about....but then if we are not winning, that seat could warm up quickly |
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 6:55 am Post subject: |
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| Gimme_the_rock wrote: | | Yeah, players definitely love the dude and he seems to be able to make his point with refs and has the right pedigree for offense but a lot of what this team showed the first twenty games hasn't really improved incrementally and the defense is Byron bad. |
It's actually worse than Byron.
Our defensive rating is 113.6 which is worst in the league. We were worst in the league last year too, but with a defensive rating of 111.6.
We are the worst team defensively in about a decade and possibly, one of the worst defensive teams of all time.
I had to go back to the 2008-2009 NBA season to find a team with a defensive rating worse than 113.6 and that was the Sacramento Kings that season when they were 114.7. Their top 5 players in minutes were:
Jason Thompson
Beno Udrih
Spencer Hawes
John Salmons
Francisco Garcia |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 6:57 am Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | Gimme_the_rock wrote: | | Yeah, players definitely love the dude and he seems to be able to make his point with refs and has the right pedigree for offense but a lot of what this team showed the first twenty games hasn't really improved incrementally and the defense is Byron bad. |
It's actually worse than Byron.
Our defensive rating is 113.6 which is worst in the league. We were worst in the league last year too, but with a defensive rating of 111.6.
We are the worst team defensively in about a decade and possibly, one of the worst defensive teams of all time.
I had to go back to the 2008-2009 NBA season to find a team with a defensive rating worse than 113.6 and that was the Sacramento Kings that season when they were 114.7. Their top 5 players in minutes were:
Jason Thompson
Beno Udrih
Spencer Hawes
John Salmons
Francisco Garcia |
I'd be curious to see how we were up until we went full tank.
Even though Moz/Deng didn't play up to their contract, my gut feeling is that they provided better defense than Ingram/Zub who are just precocious 19 year olds.
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Gimme_the_rock
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| Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 6:58 am Post subject: |
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Yeah. Porous defense, poor free throws and putrid defense to go along with poor effort are generally reflective of the coach. But it's his rookie campaign and this season has been put in the tank. Luke noted isn't the post game that there's been improvement individually but not collectively as a team and so he obviously sees it and thinks it's a reflection of the players. Like with our team, only time will tell.
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Ziggy
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| Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 7:16 am Post subject: |
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I don't blame the defense on Luke. Defense can be taught, but it also has to be in the players' DNA. Whether it's physical prowess, or just having that inner pride that says "my opponent isn't going to score while I'm on the court".
None of DLo/JC/Randle have that dog in them. Nance definitely does. Nwaba does. Zub and BI are still question marks, but they've shown a willingness to show on D although they're physically outmatched most nights.
Everyone else on the roster is irrelevant. The future of our defense really rests in the hands of Zub/Nance/Ingram. The Celtics gave their coach some defensive minded players to work with. Luke hasn't had that. |
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LakersRGolden
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| Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 7:16 am Post subject: |
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| LakerLanny wrote: | They give up the highest FG percentage in the league defensively.
That is a death stat, you can't win like that.
Luke was not hired by this front office, he may not be as secure as many think. I would give him one more season, but honestly he has done a terrible job this year. |
I agree he's been bad, but just like most new bosses, there's a break-in period. Things should get better once the issues come to a head. |
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 7:23 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | Gimme_the_rock wrote: | | Yeah, players definitely love the dude and he seems to be able to make his point with refs and has the right pedigree for offense but a lot of what this team showed the first twenty games hasn't really improved incrementally and the defense is Byron bad. |
It's actually worse than Byron.
Our defensive rating is 113.6 which is worst in the league. We were worst in the league last year too, but with a defensive rating of 111.6.
We are the worst team defensively in about a decade and possibly, one of the worst defensive teams of all time.
I had to go back to the 2008-2009 NBA season to find a team with a defensive rating worse than 113.6 and that was the Sacramento Kings that season when they were 114.7. Their top 5 players in minutes were:
Jason Thompson
Beno Udrih
Spencer Hawes
John Salmons
Francisco Garcia |
I'd be curious to see how we were up until we went full tank.
Even though Moz/Deng didn't play up to their contract, my gut feeling is that they provided better defense than Ingram/Zub who are just precocious 19 year olds. |
Before the December drop-off, we were making strides, but when Dlo and Nance in particular got injured, their units imploded, and then we started the mix and match after trying to hold the two units together with different guys.
Defense is always about a combination of what you do, how well you do it, and consistency of desire and effort. One of the hardest things to ingrained in young teams especially, and doubly so with changeover in roster. And in a tank situation, just not likely to happen.
FWIW, the league average offensive ratings are up, which means the league average defensive ratings are down.
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justsomelakerfan
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| Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 7:44 am Post subject: |
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I agree with everyone here outside of the hot seat talk, but coaching is also not the biggest problem the team has right now. The roster construction was pretty damn bad, and the level of talent on the Lakers is not really great, either. Combine these two factors with a rookie coach and a coaching staff with no real shooting or defensive experts... AND they're tanking? That's what we're looking at post-all star break. So, take a deep breath and look at everything, too.
A lot of things need to change.
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tox
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| Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 12:37 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | Honeymoon is over.
But hotseat? Way too soon.
He got saddled with a total rebuild team. Give him some vets who can play. |
His best defensive lineups he wasn't allowed to play. Is it a surprise they're terrible on defense? I get the criticism of him as well, but a lot of it is out of his control. The team is tanking. The players know it and Luke can't play his best lineups.
Which isn't to say he's immune from criticism or anything like that. I'll be interested in how they look Year 2, without excuse to tank (please). And hopefully with a new defensive coordinator. |
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LakerLanny
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| Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 4:25 pm Post subject: |
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I think some of you are going to be surprised at how "cold" and "analytical" Rob Pelinka is.
I know it seems crazy, but if he can upgrade anywhere the easiest (no cap to worry about, etc) it is head coach and if the right coach came available, I have no doubt he would move on from Walton.
Again, Luke was not hired by this front office. His big backers were Mitch and Jim, not Magic and Rob. I very much doubt if they go into next season with the same team getting riddled night in and night out defensively that Luke will even make it through next season.
Pelinka is not here to make friends or be buddy buddy with Luke or Jim Buss and such.
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 4:36 pm Post subject: |
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| LakerLanny wrote: | I think some of you are going to be surprised at how "cold" and "analytical" Rob Pelinka is.
I know it seems crazy, but if he can upgrade anywhere the easiest (no cap to worry about, etc) it is head coach and if the right coach came available, I have no doubt he would move on from Walton.
Again, Luke was not hired by this front office. His big backers were Mitch and Jim, not Magic and Rob. I very much doubt if they go into next season with the same team getting riddled night in and night out defensively that Luke will even make it through next season.
Pelinka is not here to make friends or be buddy buddy with Luke or Jim Buss and such. |
I'm hoping he's cold and analytical and knowledgeable.
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Deathstroke
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| Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 4:57 pm Post subject: |
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| My biggest criticism of Luke this season is his rotations and minutes distribution. Also 2nd half adjustments need to improve. We have so many terrible 3rd quarters after having a good first half something must be done about that next season. |
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Laker_Dynasty_01
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| Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 5:02 pm Post subject: |
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If we show so little improvement in 2018 that firing Luke seems smart, we may as well bring back Byron & Son and hire Hinkie as a consultant.
The nightmare scenario of losing the 2017 & 2019 picks, while showing no improvement in 2018, would position a young team with few draft assets to be mediocre for years to come. I have no idea who would take that job, then again I said that before we hired Luke last year. |
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Shaolin's Finest
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| Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 5:22 pm Post subject: |
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| LakerLanny wrote: | I think some of you are going to be surprised at how "cold" and "analytical" Rob Pelinka is.
I know it seems crazy, but if he can upgrade anywhere the easiest (no cap to worry about, etc) it is head coach and if the right coach came available, I have no doubt he would move on from Walton.
Again, Luke was not hired by this front office. His big backers were Mitch and Jim, not Magic and Rob. I very much doubt if they go into next season with the same team getting riddled night in and night out defensively that Luke will even make it through next season.
Pelinka is not here to make friends or be buddy buddy with Luke or Jim Buss and such. |
If there's a better person suited for the job available, then by all means, I'd support Rob 100%. Not really sure who that would be though.
I hope the FO gets into Luke's ear this summer to hire some better assistant coaches, primarily somebody who can teach and coach up our youngsters on defense. Hiring a legitimate shooting coach should also be a top priority. |
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justsomelakerfan
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| Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 5:43 pm Post subject: |
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Wow. I don't know, maybe I'm totally off on this, but maybe we should try fielding at least a decent roster and give Luke a full season of not throwing out Tyler Ennis, Corey Brewer, and David Nwaba for major rotation minutes.
The Lakers were at least competitive and on pace for 27-30 games before the moves made at All Star Break.
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tox
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Posts: 17880
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| Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 5:44 pm Post subject: |
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| justsomelakerfan wrote: | Wow. I don't know, maybe I'm totally off on this, but maybe we should try fielding at least a decent roster and give Luke a full season of not throwing out Tyler Ennis, Corey Brewer, and David Nwaba for major rotation minutes.
The Lakers were at least competitive and on pace for 27-30 games before the moves made at All Star Break. |
qft |
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justsomelakerfan
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| Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 5:57 pm Post subject: |
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| tox wrote: | | justsomelakerfan wrote: | Wow. I don't know, maybe I'm totally off on this, but maybe we should try fielding at least a decent roster and give Luke a full season of not throwing out Tyler Ennis, Corey Brewer, and David Nwaba for major rotation minutes.
The Lakers were at least competitive and on pace for 27-30 games before the moves made at All Star Break. |
qft |
And that doesn't take away any criticism either. But I think people should put the following in perspective. Since the All Star Break, there's been
1) a big roster shakeup that involved the Lakers losing their best player
2) players being rested for the tank job so there's entirely new regular rotations out there with basically only young guys
3) incorporating brand new (pretty bad) players to the team
4) players now being evaluated for next season in *entirely* different roles
In a way, it's like the season reset and started at square one coming back from break. The offense has also looked like garbage and that's concerning... But given all the above, I could understand why the offense looks basic or like crap too. I also don't know what I'm talking about re: the nuances of this tho 
I could be caping for Luke here because we have seen better basketball from this team, maybe I'm hanging on to the hope created by the hire in the first place... But this is probably a bad time to evaluate everyone on the roster. This has been a crazy season and it was doomed from the start. I could be totally off here, this is just my take
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LakerLanny
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| Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 6:06 pm Post subject: |
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I am not saying fire Luke now.
I would give him one more year as I said in my post above. But let's be honest, we need some major improvement next year in a lot of areas or there will be analysis of the entire operation because it has been suspect.
Luke is far from the only problem with the team, but I wouldn't say he has been much of an answer either.
He has to show at some point that his coaching can impact things positively defensively. Right now, they are astonishingly bad in scheme, execution and in my opinion effort.
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justsomelakerfan
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| Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 6:53 pm Post subject: |
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| LakerLanny wrote: | I am not saying fire Luke now.
I would give him one more year as I said in my post above. But let's be honest, we need some major improvement next year in a lot of areas or there will be analysis of the entire operation because it has been suspect.
Luke is far from the only problem with the team, but I wouldn't say he has been much of an answer either.
He has to show at some point that his coaching can impact things positively defensively. Right now, they are astonishingly bad in scheme, execution and in my opinion effort. |
Now, I totally agree with you here. I am left disappointed with his choices for assistants, and I'm hoping that Magic/Pelinka influence him to bring in a defensive guru this offseason... badly needed. Madsen? Jud? Blegh.
But I don't really think any coach would have been "the answer" to this season given the roster construct. Honestly none of the new coaching hires are exactly killing it right now, I think during this particular point of the season, it's an odd time to bring out the pitchforks.
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The Logo
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Location: Salem, OR
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| Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 6:58 pm Post subject: |
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| The only offseason coaching hire I like more than Luke right now is Atkinson, because I really think he's maximizing the absolute (bleep) situation in Brooklyn. That being said, I was content with 25 wins and we were pretty much on pace for 30 wins before we decided to throw (bleep) out the window. Don't think that Luke has done the perfect job either and he's said some questionable stuff but not ready to say fire him yet when he really hasn't had the chance to be anything other than handicapped. |
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King Kleazy
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| Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 7:15 pm Post subject: |
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Kinda hard to judge Luke's results, when it was clear tanking was ALWAYS in our best interest, regardless of our record early on. We need 17 & 19's picks and our roster was a clue to the current result.
Now those choices for assistants  can't be covered, so hoping that's influenced changes moving forward. I still agree with how luke wants to play, but he needs talent, because we aren't going for annual minimal growth. |
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justsomelakerfan
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| Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 7:23 pm Post subject: |
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I like Mermuys, Keefe, and Shaw - not as the lead assistant but he seems to be important to the players. (Also light years ahead move to get PG in 2018) Everyone else?
Needed a larger presence with experience for sure. And experts. I said it earlier... Kerr was new to the game, and he started out with Alvin Gentry and Ron Adams.
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Austin Reaves
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Goldenwest
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| Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 7:31 pm Post subject: |
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| tox wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | Honeymoon is over.
But hotseat? Way too soon.
He got saddled with a total rebuild team. Give him some vets who can play. |
His best defensive lineups he wasn't allowed to play. Is it a surprise they're terrible on defense? I get the criticism of him as well, but a lot of it is out of his control. The team is tanking. The players know it and Luke can't play his best lineups.
Which isn't to say he's immune from criticism or anything like that. I'll be interested in how they look Year 2, without excuse to tank (please). And hopefully with a new defensive coordinator. |
Correct me if I'm wrong but the pick is unprotected next year. So tanking should not be on the agenda. (The Nash trade; the gift that keeps on giving- to someone else) |
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Yong
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| Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 7:43 pm Post subject: |
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| We missed out on Brad Stevens. |
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