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lakerboy
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 Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 12:48 am Post subject: |
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| tox wrote: | | Chronicle wrote: | | Anyone else think magic may replace luke walton in the future too, since he seems to want to have everyone be his choice? |
No. Luke Walton is like BI... totally Magic's guy even though he's from the old regime.
My bigger concern is Luke doesn't end up as good as we all hoped. |
bingo
and this trade doesn't help him |
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tox
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Joined: 16 Nov 2015
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| Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 2:23 am Post subject: |
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| Chronicle wrote: | | tox wrote: | | Chronicle wrote: | | Anyone else think magic may replace luke walton in the future too, since he seems to want to have everyone be his choice? |
No. Luke Walton is like BI... totally Magic's guy even though he's from the old regime.
My bigger concern is Luke doesn't end up as good as we all hoped. |
He made a bunch of dumb decisions over the course of the year but it was his first year so we should give him a pass. It also took him too long to play the starting five that we all wanted him to play. But at the same time you gotta factor in the FO having a say into who should be playing... |
His lineup management was garbage and his out of bounds plays plain sucked. Watching Brad Stevens was (sadly) a total revelation. And our defense was a joke and I don't think it's just personnel. Luke did modernize our offense and build a great locker room culture.
Jury's still out, like you said he's young with a ton of room to grow.
I mostly hate his coaching staff. Kerr brought Gentry and Adams to make up for his lack of experience. Luke brought... Shaw and..... ???? |
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LakerLogic
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Joined: 27 Mar 2005
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| Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 3:07 am Post subject: |
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| His choice of assistant coaches leave a lot to be desired. I'm sure they have fun hanging out at the beach though. |
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pmacla
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Joined: 31 Aug 2012
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| Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 5:07 am Post subject: |
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how much of the DLO failure in LA falls on Luke? he was supposed to be a players coach yet we give up on a high draft pick after 1 year of his coaching
does everyone excuse his role in this and blame it all on DLO a 20 yr old kid ?? |
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Chronicle
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| Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 5:20 am Post subject: |
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by all accounts we are getting so far russell wasnt very coachable, not blaming that on luke. let's see how ingram is next year, should be a better way to see how luke is
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justsomelakerfan
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| Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 5:23 am Post subject: |
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| Chronicle wrote: | | Anyone else think magic may replace luke walton in the future too, since he seems to want to have everyone be his choice? |
Well they're clearly moving in a win-now direction. If they trade for PG, the pressure's on.
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wolfpaclaker
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| Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 5:45 am Post subject: |
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No coach in this league wins without a star to carry his gameplan on or someotimes a couple of star.
If true there was issue between D'LO/Luke, that is sad and a negative on D'LO because Luke is a player's guy through and through. I don't really know if I believe that stuff because Luke and D'LO never seemed to have much issues and Luke praised him all the time. I think it is more at the top, the management that has always been divided and upset with D'LO. Ofcourse I doubt Byron gave Magic a rave review of D'LO.
Back to coaching, Luke or any coach will not win in this league with a systerm or a gameplan without a couple of stars. We talk about Golden State, even Mike Brown coached them to a perfect record in the playoffs through almost the Finals. That's talent.
Coaching these days has become very much just more of being a good manager than anything else. It's why Phil Jackskon won so much. He always had the talent, so he knew how to keep players fresh, mentally focused and ready for the big games and playoffs, You'd be surprised how many coaches can't do what Phil, Pop and Kerr do with talent. Which is to keep them fresh, motivated and playing team ball together. That's the main thing when you actually have the talent. But getting the talent is not Luke's job. He wasn't brought in to turn water into gold or turn good players in the making to superstars. Do we not see the difference in the teamwork and chemistry with the young guys without Byron? I thought we did. Better teamwork and young player development under Luke.
I think X;'s and O's at the NBA level are not nearly as important as in college. Most teams play similarly and it's a copy cat league. What it comes down to is whether the coach motivates the players, whether he can be seen as a leader, whether when it comes down to the big games (playoffs, key match ups) he gets them to play their best. That's coaching in the NBA, IMO. Luke to me has all the qualities in that regard from what I've seen. Now he hasn't been really tested because we've never been playoff caliber. But I think he has those qualities.
X's and O's and all that master tactician stuff is for NCAA. In the NBA a head coach needs to know how to lead, how to control the emotions of the team, how to get them to see an identity and try to form that or embrace it. The guys who do that succeed. I think Luke has that type of personality. When we get the talent, if we do, I think we'll be happy we chose a guy like him. |
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richmorgan12
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| Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 6:00 am Post subject: |
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| Chronicle wrote: | | by all accounts we are getting so far russell wasnt very coachable |
That's Lakers PR. Russell's Ohio State and high school coaches didn't have a problem with him. |
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 6:04 am Post subject: |
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| wolfpaclaker wrote: | No coach in this league wins without a star to carry his gameplan on or someotimes a couple of star.
If true there was issue between D'LO/Luke, that is sad and a negative on D'LO because Luke is a player's guy through and through. I don't really know if I believe that stuff because Luke and D'LO never seemed to have much issues and Luke praised him all the time. I think it is more at the top, the management that has always been divided and upset with D'LO. Ofcourse I doubt Byron gave Magic a rave review of D'LO.
Back to coaching, Luke or any coach will not win in this league with a systerm or a gameplan without a couple of stars. We talk about Golden State, even Mike Brown coached them to a perfect record in the playoffs through almost the Finals. That's talent.
Coaching these days has become very much just more of being a good manager than anything else. It's why Phil Jackskon won so much. He always had the talent, so he knew how to keep players fresh, mentally focused and ready for the big games and playoffs, You'd be surprised how many coaches can't do what Phil, Pop and Kerr do with talent. Which is to keep them fresh, motivated and playing team ball together. That's the main thing when you actually have the talent. But getting the talent is not Luke's job. He wasn't brought in to turn water into gold or turn good players in the making to superstars. Do we not see the difference in the teamwork and chemistry with the young guys without Byron? I thought we did. Better teamwork and young player development under Luke.
I think X;'s and O's at the NBA level are not nearly as important as in college. Most teams play similarly and it's a copy cat league. What it comes down to is whether the coach motivates the players, whether he can be seen as a leader, whether when it comes down to the big games (playoffs, key match ups) he gets them to play their best. That's coaching in the NBA, IMO. Luke to me has all the qualities in that regard from what I've seen. Now he hasn't been really tested because we've never been playoff caliber. But I think he has those qualities.
X's and O's and all that master tactician stuff is for NCAA. In the NBA a head coach needs to know how to lead, how to control the emotions of the team, how to get them to see an identity and try to form that or embrace it. The guys who do that succeed. I think Luke has that type of personality. When we get the talent, if we do, I think we'll be happy we chose a guy like him. |
To be fair, some coaches produce stars that then carry their gameplan for them. |
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repandpresent
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| Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 8:58 am Post subject: |
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| If we land LBJ, I fully expect for Luke to be fired after failing to win right away. 34yr Lebron, PG13, Lopez and Ingram, isn't exactly the best team to unseat the Warriors. Magic and Pelinka are aiming and shooting to high to quickly. |
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wolfpaclaker
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Joined: 29 May 2002
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| Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 9:40 am Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | wolfpaclaker wrote: | No coach in this league wins without a star to carry his gameplan on or someotimes a couple of star.
If true there was issue between D'LO/Luke, that is sad and a negative on D'LO because Luke is a player's guy through and through. I don't really know if I believe that stuff because Luke and D'LO never seemed to have much issues and Luke praised him all the time. I think it is more at the top, the management that has always been divided and upset with D'LO. Ofcourse I doubt Byron gave Magic a rave review of D'LO.
Back to coaching, Luke or any coach will not win in this league with a systerm or a gameplan without a couple of stars. We talk about Golden State, even Mike Brown coached them to a perfect record in the playoffs through almost the Finals. That's talent.
Coaching these days has become very much just more of being a good manager than anything else. It's why Phil Jackskon won so much. He always had the talent, so he knew how to keep players fresh, mentally focused and ready for the big games and playoffs, You'd be surprised how many coaches can't do what Phil, Pop and Kerr do with talent. Which is to keep them fresh, motivated and playing team ball together. That's the main thing when you actually have the talent. But getting the talent is not Luke's job. He wasn't brought in to turn water into gold or turn good players in the making to superstars. Do we not see the difference in the teamwork and chemistry with the young guys without Byron? I thought we did. Better teamwork and young player development under Luke.
I think X;'s and O's at the NBA level are not nearly as important as in college. Most teams play similarly and it's a copy cat league. What it comes down to is whether the coach motivates the players, whether he can be seen as a leader, whether when it comes down to the big games (playoffs, key match ups) he gets them to play their best. That's coaching in the NBA, IMO. Luke to me has all the qualities in that regard from what I've seen. Now he hasn't been really tested because we've never been playoff caliber. But I think he has those qualities.
X's and O's and all that master tactician stuff is for NCAA. In the NBA a head coach needs to know how to lead, how to control the emotions of the team, how to get them to see an identity and try to form that or embrace it. The guys who do that succeed. I think Luke has that type of personality. When we get the talent, if we do, I think we'll be happy we chose a guy like him. |
To be fair, some coaches produce stars that then carry their gameplan for them. |
They don't "produce" the star.
Who "produced"
(5 greats on top of my head position by position)
Kareem
Tim Duncan
Lebron
Kobe
Magic
Those guys were stars regardless of who coached them and coming into the league, other than Kobe, they were projected to be superstars that change a franchise. Kareem won a ring with different franchises. Tim Duncan would have been a franchise guy with or without Pop. Lebron won rings with different franchises and different coaches. Magic won rings with Riley but also with out him.
I mean most guys that become stars become so because of their own accord and hard work. It has little to do with the head coach. It's the role players actually that change. A role player in one system is completely different in impact that a role player in a different coach''s system.
I think if any of the players last year would have been great, they would have been for Luke or anyone. None of our players last year was that good. Louis Williams was probably our best player and after that Russell.
If Pop coached this team last year I think they play better defense and win more games. I don't think he turns in Ingram into Lenoard. Randle into Duncan. Or Russell into Harden. That's not what coaches can do. That's on thge player itself. |
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ringfinger
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Joined: 08 Oct 2013
Posts: 29418
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| Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 10:15 am Post subject: |
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| wolfpaclaker wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | wolfpaclaker wrote: | No coach in this league wins without a star to carry his gameplan on or someotimes a couple of star.
If true there was issue between D'LO/Luke, that is sad and a negative on D'LO because Luke is a player's guy through and through. I don't really know if I believe that stuff because Luke and D'LO never seemed to have much issues and Luke praised him all the time. I think it is more at the top, the management that has always been divided and upset with D'LO. Ofcourse I doubt Byron gave Magic a rave review of D'LO.
Back to coaching, Luke or any coach will not win in this league with a systerm or a gameplan without a couple of stars. We talk about Golden State, even Mike Brown coached them to a perfect record in the playoffs through almost the Finals. That's talent.
Coaching these days has become very much just more of being a good manager than anything else. It's why Phil Jackskon won so much. He always had the talent, so he knew how to keep players fresh, mentally focused and ready for the big games and playoffs, You'd be surprised how many coaches can't do what Phil, Pop and Kerr do with talent. Which is to keep them fresh, motivated and playing team ball together. That's the main thing when you actually have the talent. But getting the talent is not Luke's job. He wasn't brought in to turn water into gold or turn good players in the making to superstars. Do we not see the difference in the teamwork and chemistry with the young guys without Byron? I thought we did. Better teamwork and young player development under Luke.
I think X;'s and O's at the NBA level are not nearly as important as in college. Most teams play similarly and it's a copy cat league. What it comes down to is whether the coach motivates the players, whether he can be seen as a leader, whether when it comes down to the big games (playoffs, key match ups) he gets them to play their best. That's coaching in the NBA, IMO. Luke to me has all the qualities in that regard from what I've seen. Now he hasn't been really tested because we've never been playoff caliber. But I think he has those qualities.
X's and O's and all that master tactician stuff is for NCAA. In the NBA a head coach needs to know how to lead, how to control the emotions of the team, how to get them to see an identity and try to form that or embrace it. The guys who do that succeed. I think Luke has that type of personality. When we get the talent, if we do, I think we'll be happy we chose a guy like him. |
To be fair, some coaches produce stars that then carry their gameplan for them. |
They don't "produce" the star.
Who "produced"
(5 greats on top of my head position by position)
Kareem
Tim Duncan
Lebron
Kobe
Magic
Those guys were stars regardless of who coached them and coming into the league, other than Kobe, they were projected to be superstars that change a franchise. Kareem won a ring with different franchises. Tim Duncan would have been a franchise guy with or without Pop. Lebron won rings with different franchises and different coaches. Magic won rings with Riley but also with out him.
I mean most guys that become stars become so because of their own accord and hard work. It has little to do with the head coach. It's the role players actually that change. A role player in one system is completely different in impact that a role player in a different coach''s system.
I think if any of the players last year would have been great, they would have been for Luke or anyone. None of our players last year was that good. Louis Williams was probably our best player and after that Russell.
If Pop coached this team last year I think they play better defense and win more games. I don't think he turns in Ingram into Lenoard. Randle into Duncan. Or Russell into Harden. That's not what coaches can do. That's on thge player itself. |
You're talking about superstars.
I'm talking about stars. I'd argue Brad Stevens "made" IT. MDA "made" Nash and to some degree, Harden.
And to some degree, Phil "made" Kobe. |
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JeezyXVII
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Joined: 07 Jul 2014
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| Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 4:40 pm Post subject: |
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| lakerboy wrote: | | tox wrote: | | Chronicle wrote: | | Anyone else think magic may replace luke walton in the future too, since he seems to want to have everyone be his choice? |
No. Luke Walton is like BI... totally Magic's guy even though he's from the old regime.
My bigger concern is Luke doesn't end up as good as we all hoped. |
bingo
and this trade doesn't help him |
Still too early to tell how the teams gonna look between ow and start of Train.Camp. |
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 5:25 pm Post subject: |
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| tox wrote: | | Chronicle wrote: | | Anyone else think magic may replace luke walton in the future too, since he seems to want to have everyone be his choice? |
No. Luke Walton is like BI... totally Magic's guy even though he's from the old regime.
My bigger concern is Luke doesn't end up as good as we all hoped. |
My theory on this, is that Magic likes yes men. If you're not a yes man, you're out.
Would have been super interesting to see what Magic would have done with a young Kobe |
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DocK36
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Joined: 19 Apr 2001
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| Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 5:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Chronicle wrote: | | Anyone else think magic may replace luke walton in the future too, since he seems to want to have everyone be his choice? |
The return of Byron Scott, book it.
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 5:34 am Post subject: |
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My hot take.
Luke's honeymoon period is over. With Mitch/Jim, his job was safe thanks to the notion of a prolonged rebuild with young players. If we get PG13, the clock will start ticking on him, and if he can't get them to the playoffs or very close to it, I can see Magic looking for another coaching option in 2018, especially if Asst. GM Lebron comes and has his way.
Luke/Lakers need to vastly upgrade his coaching staff. Shaw was a disappointment. When Luke coached 40+ games on the Warriors, he had Ron Adams. He is the Phil Jax of assistant coaches. Luke has Shaw. Yuck.
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KBH
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Joined: 13 Sep 2008
Posts: 12171
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| Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 8:13 am Post subject: |
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| tox wrote: | | Chronicle wrote: | | Anyone else think magic may replace luke walton in the future too, since he seems to want to have everyone be his choice? |
No. Luke Walton is like BI... totally Magic's guy even though he's from the old regime.
My bigger concern is Luke doesn't end up as good as we all hoped. |
And I have the same concerns about Luke that I have about BI. Both have potential, but I think they have a lot to prove to live up to the lofty statements made about them. For BI, it's the "untouchable" status, and for Luke it's that he's already a top coach in this league and our coach for the next decade. I'd like both of these things to happen, but the rhetoric is premature considering the results. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 8:16 am Post subject: |
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Honeymoon phase for Luke, BI about to expire. Both will be expected to contribute past the "potential" part next year. Not superstar expectations, but better than the mediocre/poor output from last year, objectively speaking.
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KBH
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| Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 8:16 am Post subject: |
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| wolfpaclaker wrote: | No coach in this league wins without a star to carry his gameplan on or someotimes a couple of star.
If true there was issue between D'LO/Luke, that is sad and a negative on D'LO because Luke is a player's guy through and through. I don't really know if I believe that stuff because Luke and D'LO never seemed to have much issues and Luke praised him all the time. I think it is more at the top, the management that has always been divided and upset with D'LO. Ofcourse I doubt Byron gave Magic a rave review of D'LO.
Back to coaching, Luke or any coach will not win in this league with a systerm or a gameplan without a couple of stars. We talk about Golden State, even Mike Brown coached them to a perfect record in the playoffs through almost the Finals. That's talent.
Coaching these days has become very much just more of being a good manager than anything else. It's why Phil Jackskon won so much. He always had the talent, so he knew how to keep players fresh, mentally focused and ready for the big games and playoffs, You'd be surprised how many coaches can't do what Phil, Pop and Kerr do with talent. Which is to keep them fresh, motivated and playing team ball together. That's the main thing when you actually have the talent. But getting the talent is not Luke's job. He wasn't brought in to turn water into gold or turn good players in the making to superstars. Do we not see the difference in the teamwork and chemistry with the young guys without Byron? I thought we did. Better teamwork and young player development under Luke.
I think X;'s and O's at the NBA level are not nearly as important as in college. Most teams play similarly and it's a copy cat league. What it comes down to is whether the coach motivates the players, whether he can be seen as a leader, whether when it comes down to the big games (playoffs, key match ups) he gets them to play their best. That's coaching in the NBA, IMO. Luke to me has all the qualities in that regard from what I've seen. Now he hasn't been really tested because we've never been playoff caliber. But I think he has those qualities.
X's and O's and all that master tactician stuff is for NCAA. In the NBA a head coach needs to know how to lead, how to control the emotions of the team, how to get them to see an identity and try to form that or embrace it. The guys who do that succeed. I think Luke has that type of personality. When we get the talent, if we do, I think we'll be happy we chose a guy like him. |
No one expects Luke to win. Brad Stevens won 25 games in his first season and he showed more coaching acumen than Luke did. And we're seeing the results of that in how he's had them overachieving every season and even stealing a game from the more talented Cavs without IT. This isn't to say Luke is bad, but he hasn't done anything to earn his lofty billing. And I consider myself a Luke guy going back to his playing days. |
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tox
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| Posted: Sun Jul 09, 2017 8:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Cranjis on twitter is going in on our coaching staff rn |
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fiendishoc
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| Posted: Sun Jul 09, 2017 9:04 pm Post subject: |
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| DocK36 wrote: | | Chronicle wrote: | | Anyone else think magic may replace luke walton in the future too, since he seems to want to have everyone be his choice? |
The return of Byron Scott, book it. |
With Kurt Rambis as the lead assistant? |
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Chronicle
Retired Number
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Posts: 31935
Location: Manhattan
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| Posted: Sun Jul 09, 2017 11:55 pm Post subject: |
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| tox wrote: | | Cranjis on twitter is going in on our coaching staff rn |
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VegasLakerFan
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Joined: 25 Dec 2011
Posts: 1835
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| Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 1:31 am Post subject: |
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| tox wrote: | | Chronicle wrote: | | Anyone else think magic may replace luke walton in the future too, since he seems to want to have everyone be his choice? |
No. Luke Walton is like BI... totally Magic's guy even though he's from the old regime.
My bigger concern is Luke doesn't end up as good as we all hoped. |
I wouldn't worry about that. He's sharp as a tack still has some of that cache from his rings as a player and assistant coach. We just need to give him the horses and I think he'll become one of those self-fulfilling prophecy type coaches where because he's had success people are more likely to buy into what he says and therefore he's likely to have more success in the future. |
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VegasLakerFan
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Joined: 25 Dec 2011
Posts: 1835
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| Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 1:33 am Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | wolfpaclaker wrote: | No coach in this league wins without a star to carry his gameplan on or someotimes a couple of star.
If true there was issue between D'LO/Luke, that is sad and a negative on D'LO because Luke is a player's guy through and through. I don't really know if I believe that stuff because Luke and D'LO never seemed to have much issues and Luke praised him all the time. I think it is more at the top, the management that has always been divided and upset with D'LO. Ofcourse I doubt Byron gave Magic a rave review of D'LO.
Back to coaching, Luke or any coach will not win in this league with a systerm or a gameplan without a couple of stars. We talk about Golden State, even Mike Brown coached them to a perfect record in the playoffs through almost the Finals. That's talent.
Coaching these days has become very much just more of being a good manager than anything else. It's why Phil Jackskon won so much. He always had the talent, so he knew how to keep players fresh, mentally focused and ready for the big games and playoffs, You'd be surprised how many coaches can't do what Phil, Pop and Kerr do with talent. Which is to keep them fresh, motivated and playing team ball together. That's the main thing when you actually have the talent. But getting the talent is not Luke's job. He wasn't brought in to turn water into gold or turn good players in the making to superstars. Do we not see the difference in the teamwork and chemistry with the young guys without Byron? I thought we did. Better teamwork and young player development under Luke.
I think X;'s and O's at the NBA level are not nearly as important as in college. Most teams play similarly and it's a copy cat league. What it comes down to is whether the coach motivates the players, whether he can be seen as a leader, whether when it comes down to the big games (playoffs, key match ups) he gets them to play their best. That's coaching in the NBA, IMO. Luke to me has all the qualities in that regard from what I've seen. Now he hasn't been really tested because we've never been playoff caliber. But I think he has those qualities.
X's and O's and all that master tactician stuff is for NCAA. In the NBA a head coach needs to know how to lead, how to control the emotions of the team, how to get them to see an identity and try to form that or embrace it. The guys who do that succeed. I think Luke has that type of personality. When we get the talent, if we do, I think we'll be happy we chose a guy like him. |
To be fair, some coaches produce stars that then carry their gameplan for them. |
Not so much on this level. Some stars come from out of nowhere but most often stars are stars no matter who their NBA coaches are. |
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bonkers
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| Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 2:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | “Immediately after the exchange I talked to Walton on the phone, and when I came back from New York, we had lunch together and communicated well,” Mozgov told the Izvestia reporter, Timur Ganeev. “I have a good relationship with him. He said that trading me was not his choice. The coach wanted to see me on the team again next year.” |
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