Joined: 02 Jan 2011 Posts: 36081 Location: 502 Bad Gateway
Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 9:16 pm Post subject:
LakerSanity wrote:
I think Luke has developed Ingram perfectly. Sure, it made him look bad early on, but it got him thinking about an all around game and showed him how to play around the floor. I think those lessons will serve him well in his ultimate role as a scorer. You want him to be more than an Andrew Wiggins, and I think Luke has set the stage for him to more than that.
So should we start the season trying to make Lonzo a post player? Same logic.
Joined: 02 Jan 2011 Posts: 36081 Location: 502 Bad Gateway
Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 9:17 pm Post subject:
Lakerz113 wrote:
greenfrog wrote:
Lakerz113 wrote:
Coming out of college he his strength was suppose to be his three point shooting. Luke put him in a position to get those shots. When that didnt translate early on luke let him handle the ball more, and by the end of the season he was attacking the basket more. Seems sensible to me.
His strength in college was isos.
Under coach K...he always has an iso player Luke was implementing his offense and ingram wasnt ready...Cant argue he had his chances just didnt knock it down. He shot over 40 percent from 3 in college thats a strength.
I think Luke has developed Ingram perfectly. Sure, it made him look bad early on, but it got him thinking about an all around game and showed him how to play around the floor. I think those lessons will serve him well in his ultimate role as a scorer. You want him to be more than an Andrew Wiggins, and I think Luke has set the stage for him to more than that.
So should we start the season trying to make Lonzo a post player? Same logic.
Lonzo's strength is passing, he can do that from day 1. Ingram had to learn the physicality of the game and still needs to develop muscle to master his strengths.
I liked the Ingram point guard experiment, personally. I think I read a while back that the Wolves did the same thing with Zach Lavine just to get him NBA experience in expanding some skills.
Joined: 30 Nov 2006 Posts: 33474 Location: Long Beach, California
Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 9:21 pm Post subject:
greenfrog wrote:
LakerSanity wrote:
I think Luke has developed Ingram perfectly. Sure, it made him look bad early on, but it got him thinking about an all around game and showed him how to play around the floor. I think those lessons will serve him well in his ultimate role as a scorer. You want him to be more than an Andrew Wiggins, and I think Luke has set the stage for him to more than that.
So should start the season trying to make Lonzo a post player? Same logic.
No, unless your logic is based on the premise that every player should be approached the exact same way as if they learn the same way, come into the league at the same stage of their development, are the same age, are going to play the same role and have the same work ethic. A good coach adapts to the player, recognizes what they need to do well, recognizes how to get the most out of them and doesn't carry a one-size-fits-all coaching for dummies handbook that they slap on uniformly to every player.... unless you are Byron Scott, of course. _________________ LakersGround's Terms of Service
Joined: 02 Jan 2011 Posts: 36081 Location: 502 Bad Gateway
Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 9:25 pm Post subject:
Lakerz113 wrote:
greenfrog wrote:
LakerSanity wrote:
I think Luke has developed Ingram perfectly. Sure, it made him look bad early on, but it got him thinking about an all around game and showed him how to play around the floor. I think those lessons will serve him well in his ultimate role as a scorer. You want him to be more than an Andrew Wiggins, and I think Luke has set the stage for him to more than that.
So should we start the season trying to make Lonzo a post player? Same logic.
Lonzo's strength is passing, he can do that from day 1. Ingram had to learn the physicality of the game and still needs to develop muscle to master his strengths.
Did he look any physically stronger to you when he started playing better? I just think much of the awfulness of those early months was entirely preventable.
I think Luke has developed Ingram perfectly. Sure, it made him look bad early on, but it got him thinking about an all around game and showed him how to play around the floor. I think those lessons will serve him well in his ultimate role as a scorer. You want him to be more than an Andrew Wiggins, and I think Luke has set the stage for him to more than that.
So should we start the season trying to make Lonzo a post player? Same logic.
Lonzo's strength is passing, he can do that from day 1. Ingram had to learn the physicality of the game and still needs to develop muscle to master his strengths.
Did he look any physically stronger to you when he started playing better? I just think much of the awfulness of those early months was entirely preventable.
I did not say he got stronger i said he learned the physicality of the game.
I think Luke has developed Ingram perfectly. Sure, it made him look bad early on, but it got him thinking about an all around game and showed him how to play around the floor. I think those lessons will serve him well in his ultimate role as a scorer. You want him to be more than an Andrew Wiggins, and I think Luke has set the stage for him to more than that.
So should we start the season trying to make Lonzo a post player? Same logic.
Lonzo's strength is passing, he can do that from day 1. Ingram had to learn the physicality of the game and still needs to develop muscle to master his strengths.
Did he look any physically stronger to you when he started playing better? I just think much of the awfulness of those early months was entirely preventable.
Did he look much bigger in summer league this year?..no...but he learned how to attack and showed much more in one game than he did all of summer league last year.
Joined: 02 Jan 2011 Posts: 36081 Location: 502 Bad Gateway
Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 9:34 pm Post subject:
Lakerz113 wrote:
greenfrog wrote:
Lakerz113 wrote:
greenfrog wrote:
LakerSanity wrote:
I think Luke has developed Ingram perfectly. Sure, it made him look bad early on, but it got him thinking about an all around game and showed him how to play around the floor. I think those lessons will serve him well in his ultimate role as a scorer. You want him to be more than an Andrew Wiggins, and I think Luke has set the stage for him to more than that.
So should we start the season trying to make Lonzo a post player? Same logic.
Lonzo's strength is passing, he can do that from day 1. Ingram had to learn the physicality of the game and still needs to develop muscle to master his strengths.
Did he look any physically stronger to you when he started playing better? I just think much of the awfulness of those early months was entirely preventable.
Did he look much bigger in summer league this year?..no...but he learned how to attack and showed much more in one game than he did all of summer league last year.
He has the green light now. I'm sure he's learned stuff, too, but I think that's just as much a factor.
I liked the Ingram point guard experiment, personally. I think I read a while back that the Wolves did the same thing with Zach Lavine just to get him NBA experience in expanding some skills.
I thought they said Ingram was a PG in HS, before he grew from 6'2' to 6'9"... _________________ “Always remember... Rumors are carried by haters, spread by fools, and accepted by idiots.”
I think Luke has developed Ingram perfectly. Sure, it made him look bad early on, but it got him thinking about an all around game and showed him how to play around the floor. I think those lessons will serve him well in his ultimate role as a scorer. You want him to be more than an Andrew Wiggins, and I think Luke has set the stage for him to more than that.
So should we start the season trying to make Lonzo a post player? Same logic.
Lonzo's strength is passing, he can do that from day 1. Ingram had to learn the physicality of the game and still needs to develop muscle to master his strengths.
Did he look any physically stronger to you when he started playing better? I just think much of the awfulness of those early months was entirely preventable.
Did he look much bigger in summer league this year?..no...but he learned how to attack and showed much more in one game than he did all of summer league last year.
He has the green light now. I'm sure he's learned stuff, too, but I think that's just as much a factor.
Im just glad we are seeing development..maybe Luke should have done things differently, maybe he shouldn't have. All that matters is Ingram is getting better
It's crazy how people try to discredit a players development. Ingram did get stronger as the season went on, he did develop more skills, more confidence, and a better feel for the game.
Luke was at an unfair disadvantage. Given veterans who severely underperformed and a bunch of unproven children. Early in the year he showed what he could do with a healthy team. He got the most out of a team who was honestly lacking a lot in regards to overall talent.
Injuries struck with two of 5 starters for a long stretch and then several bench players and then the chemistry that had been developed quickly dissipated. The team.never got back on track and the chemistry (and winning mentality) never got back on track, and my mid January the tank was backing in full gear.
I thought he did a poor job with Ingram. Having him bring the ball up the floor, and then stand in the corner while Lou and JC ran high screen and rolls to their heart's content wasn't very conducive to his development. If he does something equally bizarre with Lonzo, say make him a post player (which we actually kind of saw in his first SPL game), I would count that as flirting with a fireable offense.
He did that to get Ingram involved, otherwise he didn't engage. And it seemed to work well.
That was literally his worst month; December, IIRC (.399 TS%). What worked was getting him high post catches.
Yes, after he became engaged within the game. Which was the reason Luke had him bringing the ball up early on.
Yeah, he sucked in December but that experience helped him grow pretty quickly. No complaints from me there.
He improved the next month (some of that experiment may have bled into January, IIRC), but I don't think it was humanly possible for him not to given the extent of how bad he was at that point. It wasn't until after the ASB that Luke put him in a position to succeed, IMO, and was mostly because Lou was traded, and they basically shelved Young.
He was far more comfortable as a secondary playmaker after December. I attribute that to the PG experiment.
There's no tangible reason to think Luke's suddenly on the hot seat. That's absurd. The new regime hasn't merely complemented Luke as a good young coach that they're gonna give a fair shot to until they find someone better. They don't just speak highly of him. They clearly view him as a long-term piece with them. Isn't it alleged that Magic told Jeanie (even prior to his hiring) that he wasn't sure if the team had a player they could build around yet, but that she could build around Luke (which people bemoaned)?
Not to mention the fact that Pelinka even singled him out in the love fest part of his introductory presser, saying they believe he's a "championship-caliber coach." In that post-draft interview with Trudell, Pelinka even said that Luke's vision of how he wants to play was what guided their decision-making in which players to draft. None of these things make any sense unless they're sold on him and do view him as a long-term piece. Get real. You don't make personnel decisions with a coach unless you're absolutely convinced that he's your guy. Luke may have been hired by the old regime, but that's a lot more surprising than the new one thinking so highly of him. He reeks of a Magic/Rob hire much more than a Jim/Mitch one. Luke is safe. It's amazing how people just make stuff up.
Figured I might as well restate this since, for whatever weird reasons, people are still determined to believe random stuff they've decided to make up about Luke's job security, completely ignoring things that are actually factual. Pretty amazing. _________________ “Christ did not die to forgive sinners who go on treasuring anything above seeing and savoring God. And people who would be happy in heaven if Christ were not there, will not be there."
- John Piper
Joined: 15 May 2001 Posts: 2146 Location: Tega Cay, South Carolina
Posted: Sat Jul 29, 2017 3:41 pm Post subject:
Luke is the perfect coach for what the Lakers want to do as a team. He is great on player development and teaching which is what this group really needs. He is not on a hot seat but they expect the player to improve and the team to be competitive and fun to watch. He will make that happen.
There's no tangible reason to think Luke's suddenly on the hot seat. That's absurd. The new regime hasn't merely complemented Luke as a good young coach that they're gonna give a fair shot to until they find someone better. They don't just speak highly of him. They clearly view him as a long-term piece with them. Isn't it alleged that Magic told Jeanie (even prior to his hiring) that he wasn't sure if the team had a player they could build around yet, but that she could build around Luke (which people bemoaned)?
Not to mention the fact that Pelinka even singled him out in the love fest part of his introductory presser, saying they believe he's a "championship-caliber coach." In that post-draft interview with Trudell, Pelinka even said that Luke's vision of how he wants to play was what guided their decision-making in which players to draft. None of these things make any sense unless they're sold on him and do view him as a long-term piece. Get real. You don't make personnel decisions with a coach unless you're absolutely convinced that he's your guy. Luke may have been hired by the old regime, but that's a lot more surprising than the new one thinking so highly of him. He reeks of a Magic/Rob hire much more than a Jim/Mitch one. Luke is safe. It's amazing how people just make stuff up.
Figured I might as well restate this since, for whatever weird reasons, people are still determined to believe random stuff they've decided to make up about Luke's job security, completely ignoring things that are actually factual. Pretty amazing.
His job is secure for next season, the results will tell if it is secure going forward.
We have another high lottery pick, young players with one more season under their belts, our best center since Gasol and possibly our best SG since Kobe went down, if we take into account that we don't have a pick next season and to make things worse Boston can be the team receiving a high lottery pick from us, Luke has all the reasons in the world to make our record look decent next season, if he fails I bet his job will not be secure anymore.
Top 20 defense, top 15 offense looking like a team while trending towards an 8th seed is what I expect, but I don't know the FO expectations.
Joined: 30 Nov 2006 Posts: 33474 Location: Long Beach, California
Posted: Sat Jul 29, 2017 6:41 pm Post subject:
Luke's job is very secure right now. However, that can change rather quickly. Coaches live from season to season. If we don't show improvement (which includes winning over 30 games next year), you may start hearing rumblings about him being on the hot seat. If, in 2018, we sign two max guys and disappoint, then he could be fired right after. That said, he may actually get a bit of a re-set button if we sign those guys because the thought will be that it would take at least one season to gel before you can really judge it. That also depends on whether Lebron is one of those guys.
I believe he signed a 5 year deal (IIRC), and, based on the above, would be pretty surprised for him not to last at least two more years regardless of what goes on over the next two seasons. _________________ LakersGround's Terms of Service
There's no tangible reason to think Luke's suddenly on the hot seat. That's absurd. The new regime hasn't merely complemented Luke as a good young coach that they're gonna give a fair shot to until they find someone better. They don't just speak highly of him. They clearly view him as a long-term piece with them. Isn't it alleged that Magic told Jeanie (even prior to his hiring) that he wasn't sure if the team had a player they could build around yet, but that she could build around Luke (which people bemoaned)?
Not to mention the fact that Pelinka even singled him out in the love fest part of his introductory presser, saying they believe he's a "championship-caliber coach." In that post-draft interview with Trudell, Pelinka even said that Luke's vision of how he wants to play was what guided their decision-making in which players to draft. None of these things make any sense unless they're sold on him and do view him as a long-term piece. Get real. You don't make personnel decisions with a coach unless you're absolutely convinced that he's your guy. Luke may have been hired by the old regime, but that's a lot more surprising than the new one thinking so highly of him. He reeks of a Magic/Rob hire much more than a Jim/Mitch one. Luke is safe. It's amazing how people just make stuff up.
Figured I might as well restate this since, for whatever weird reasons, people are still determined to believe random stuff they've decided to make up about Luke's job security, completely ignoring things that are actually factual. Pretty amazing.
His job is secure for next season, the results will tell if it is secure going forward.
We have another high lottery pick, young players with one more season under their belts, our best center since Gasol and possibly our best SG since Kobe went down, if we take into account that we don't have a pick next season and to make things worse Boston can be the team receiving a high lottery pick from us, Luke has all the reasons in the world to make our record look decent next season, if he fails I bet his job will not be secure anymore.
Top 20 defense, top 15 offense looking like a team while trending towards an 8th seed is what I expect, but I don't know the FO expectations.
I guess that's the difference between actually listening to what the FO is saying and actually trying to understand it, as opposed to just inventing your own narrative:
Quote:
Before she brought Magic Johnson in the fold, Jeanie Buss wanted to make sure they were on the same page about one topic in particular: Luke Walton.
“What was important to me was how he felt about our coach, Luke Walton,” Buss said during a podcast on Forbes Sports Money. “Luke Walton is, he is somebody that I believe can be our coach for the next 10 or 15 years, as long as we don’t kill him.”
Quote:
"But during that first conversation, she heard what she wanted to hear from Johnson about her coach.
“When I asked him one of my first questions that night at dinner: ‘What do you think about the team?’” Buss said on the podcast, “he said he would build the team around Luke Walton.”
Walton, who turned 37 on Tuesday, is the league’s youngest head coach. He is coming to the end of his first year in the role. What Buss wants to see is a team that fits his vision. She referenced the San Antonio Spurs as a model for that.
“I saw from my experience with Phil Jackson, if you can build a foundation of players who know the system you want to play, the style you want to play, then you really have [something],” Buss said. “The Spurs have done it the best where they have a core group of players and they just kind of switch pieces as they need to. … I believe that if we build with Luke in mind that he’s somebody that can be around a long time.”
This isn't the old regime we're talking about, where the coaching chair was more like a revolving door every two years. What people seem to be ignoring or failing to process is that their comments about Luke extend well beyond the generic, PR compliments. There's a huge difference between lines like, 'We have a solid coach' and 'he's done a good job this year' and 'We're going to draft players and build a roster that fits his basketball vision because we see him as our coach for the next decade.'
Again, an intimate component to this is stability, in contrast to the old regime. Had they been looking for a coach this offseason and Luke was available, he would've been their guy. Getting rid of Byron and replacing him with Luke was one of the few things Jim and Mitch did right the last few years. That's why Luke is safe. He's in an ultra rare position for an NBA coach with the kind of job security he has. It's rather ironic that the only people who think his job is suddenly in jeopardy are the ones who aren't even in the positions of power to even make that decision. The ones who are have had a clear, unified message about it, though. _________________ “Christ did not die to forgive sinners who go on treasuring anything above seeing and savoring God. And people who would be happy in heaven if Christ were not there, will not be there."
- John Piper
Luke ain't going nowhere and you can bet on that. Don't forget his dad is an NBA legend and luke played a long NBA career on questionable talent. Luke is a good ol boy and as long as Magic is in charge he's gonna be the head coach of the lakers. His career path is set in stone.
Fans need to wake up and take a look around the NBA and realize who runs (bleep). All it takes is a few Ex nba players to make or break your career. It's a game inside of a game and if you don't think so take a look at D'angelo Russell or d. Fish...
I don't wanna change the subject too much but look at how much kobes image changed in the media after the whole Shaq snitching thing (kobe was just bigger than politics).
pS I don't even like kobe and I feel like he was reffed differently than other stars. I felt like he got hacked most of his career.
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