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Practice Star Player
Joined: 14 Apr 2015 Posts: 4551
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Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 4:17 pm Post subject: |
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PICKnPOP wrote: | Luke ain't going nowhere and you can bet on that. Don't forget his dad is an NBA legend and luke played a long NBA career on questionable talent. Luke is a good ol boy and as long as Magic is in charge he's gonna be the head coach of the lakers. His career path is set in stone.
Fans need to wake up and take a look around the NBA and realize who runs (bleep). All it takes is a few Ex nba players to make or break your career. It's a game inside of a game and if you don't think so take a look at D'angelo Russell or d. Fish...
I don't wanna change the subject too much but look at how much kobes image changed in the media after the whole Shaq snitching thing (kobe was just bigger than politics).
pS I don't even like kobe and I feel like he was reffed differently than other stars. I felt like he got hacked most of his career. |
So if Byron was still here he would be our coach forever? |
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PICKnPOP Star Player
Joined: 14 Jul 2014 Posts: 5356
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Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 4:26 pm Post subject: |
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Practice wrote: | PICKnPOP wrote: | Luke ain't going nowhere and you can bet on that. Don't forget his dad is an NBA legend and luke played a long NBA career on questionable talent. Luke is a good ol boy and as long as Magic is in charge he's gonna be the head coach of the lakers. His career path is set in stone.
Fans need to wake up and take a look around the NBA and realize who runs (bleep). All it takes is a few Ex nba players to make or break your career. It's a game inside of a game and if you don't think so take a look at D'angelo Russell or d. Fish...
I don't wanna change the subject too much but look at how much kobes image changed in the media after the whole Shaq snitching thing (kobe was just bigger than politics).
pS I don't even like kobe and I feel like he was reffed differently than other stars. I felt like he got hacked most of his career. |
So if Byron was still here he would be our coach forever? |
Bryon screwed himself with the fan base. That's on him with his dumb rotations and old school mentality. Luke isn't going anywhere. |
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deal Franchise Player
Joined: 17 Aug 2008 Posts: 14900 Location: Earth
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Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 6:37 pm Post subject: |
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I got Luke! Yep, want than kid right here in LA... _________________ Lakers need to build a freaking team ! |
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LakerLanny Retired Number
Joined: 24 Oct 2001 Posts: 47565
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Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 10:09 pm Post subject: |
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Lakerz113 wrote: | I think what matters is the way he ended the season...Luke must have done something right. |
What by giving him minutes?
He was the #2 pick in the NBA Draft on a terrible team. Generally those guys will play.
Other than that, I saw zero impact from Luke at all on developing his game. Luke is very much a work in progress as a true NBA head coach. _________________ Love, Laker Lanny |
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epak Retired Number
Joined: 30 Aug 2005 Posts: 34147
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Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 12:16 am Post subject: |
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Yea. Luke should have yelled at BI and called him out in the media. How dare he try to provide a positive environment for guys to feel safe. Things like this does nothing for a player's confidence and has NO impact.
Amirite? |
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pio2u Retired Number
Joined: 26 Dec 2012 Posts: 54520
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Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 1:32 am Post subject: |
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epak wrote: | Yea. Luke should have yelled at BI and called him out in the media. How dare he try to provide a positive environment for guys to feel safe. Things like this does nothing for a player's confidence and has NO impact.
Amirite? | prettimuch! |
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Eindhoven Star Player
Joined: 14 Jul 2015 Posts: 1930 Location: Zürich
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Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 3:16 am Post subject: |
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Of all the problems Luke had, Ingram was not one of them. _________________ .... |
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Judah Star Player
Joined: 23 Jun 2015 Posts: 4759
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Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 7:54 am Post subject: |
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LakerLanny wrote: | Lakerz113 wrote: | I think what matters is the way he ended the season...Luke must have done something right. |
What by giving him minutes?
He was the #2 pick in the NBA Draft on a terrible team. Generally those guys will play.
Other than that, I saw zero impact from Luke at all on developing his game. Luke is very much a work in progress as a true NBA head coach. |
What would "impact from Luke on developing him" have looked like, since obviously your own ability to [somehow] recognize it is what ultimately determines whether or not it was happening? Enlighten us on what to look for. We're listening. _________________ “Christ did not die to forgive sinners who go on treasuring anything above seeing and savoring God. And people who would be happy in heaven if Christ were not there, will not be there."
- John Piper |
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Omar Little Moderator
Joined: 02 May 2005 Posts: 90299 Location: Formerly Known As 24
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Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 11:26 am Post subject: |
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LakerLanny wrote: | Lakerz113 wrote: | I think what matters is the way he ended the season...Luke must have done something right. |
What by giving him minutes?
He was the #2 pick in the NBA Draft on a terrible team. Generally those guys will play.
Other than that, I saw zero impact from Luke at all on developing his game. Luke is very much a work in progress as a true NBA head coach. |
My biggest critique/suggestion for Luke is that he could stand to hire less of his buddies who help with the culture and a few more x and o guys who could help with scheme. _________________ “We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
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ringfinger Retired Number
Joined: 08 Oct 2013 Posts: 29418
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Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 12:18 pm Post subject: |
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Judah wrote: | LakerLanny wrote: | Lakerz113 wrote: | I think what matters is the way he ended the season...Luke must have done something right. |
What by giving him minutes?
He was the #2 pick in the NBA Draft on a terrible team. Generally those guys will play.
Other than that, I saw zero impact from Luke at all on developing his game. Luke is very much a work in progress as a true NBA head coach. |
What would "impact from Luke on developing him" have looked like, since obviously your own ability to [somehow] recognize it is what ultimately determines whether or not it was happening? Enlighten us on what to look for. We're listening. |
Players and/or the team playing beyond expectations. |
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justsomelakerfan Franchise Player
Joined: 16 Jul 2016 Posts: 10939
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Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 7:22 pm Post subject: |
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If the roster construct hadn't changed significantly during the all star break, the Lakers were on pace to win something like 30-35 games... which is still way better than they were projected last year prior to the season starting. Even during their losing stretch in December and January, they were still competitive and gutted out wins periodically.
For a good stretch of last year before LAL went into full tank job, the team impressed me and was better than I thought they'd be.
They ended up winning the number of games everyone projected with 26. Last year's team went from "eh, not good" to unwatchable with the tanking moves made in February. That with the young players' improvement (especially Ingram, Zubac, and The Point Guard Who Must Not Be Named) gives me enough hope in Luke for another season or two, qualms and all.
Easy to miss the forest from the trees. |
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ringfinger Retired Number
Joined: 08 Oct 2013 Posts: 29418
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Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 7:45 pm Post subject: |
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justsomelakerfan wrote: | If the roster construct hadn't changed significantly during the all star break, the Lakers were on pace to win something like 30-35 games... which is still way better than they were projected last year prior to the season starting. Even during their losing stretch in December and January, they were still competitive and gutted out wins periodically.
For a good stretch of last year before LAL went into full tank job, the team impressed me and was better than I thought they'd be.
They ended up winning the number of games everyone projected with 26. Last year's team went from "eh, not good" to unwatchable with the tanking moves made in February. That with the young players' improvement (especially Ingram, Zubac, and The Point Guard Who Must Not Be Named) gives me enough hope in Luke for another season or two, qualms and all.
Easy to miss the forest from the trees. |
At the ASB, pretty sure I remember us being 19-39, putting us on pace to win 27 games, right around where we finished. |
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MJST Retired Number
Joined: 06 Jul 2014 Posts: 26091
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Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 10:45 pm Post subject: |
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We were closer to that pace till Ice in his veins got injured. That's what started the downfall of our season, I think Nance followed shortly after and then Young, and then it went off the rails. Till then we were playing .500 basketball and were on a 6-2 run over our last 8 games and beating times by an average of 13.3 points per win.
But once he went down, it was followed by Nance, then young, and we fell off the rails and went 2 - 10 over our next 12 and the season fell into flux shortly after. _________________ How NBA 2K18 failed the All-Time Lakers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxMBYm3wwxk |
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Omar Little Moderator
Joined: 02 May 2005 Posts: 90299 Location: Formerly Known As 24
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Posted: Thu Aug 24, 2017 12:14 am Post subject: |
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MJST wrote: | We were closer to that pace till Ice in his veins got injured. That's what started the downfall of our season, I think Nance followed shortly after and then Young, and then it went off the rails. Till then we were playing .500 basketball and were on a 6-2 run over our last 8 games and beating times by an average of 13.3 points per win.
But once he went down, it was followed by Nance, then young, and we fell off the rails and went 2 - 10 over our next 12 and the season fell into flux shortly after. |
There was a bit of fools gold there, as teams began to scout them, and the inability of the two units to co-mingle. I think they were clearly a team that should have won in the thirties, but they do have a bit of an x and o issue imo. _________________ “We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
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LakerLanny Retired Number
Joined: 24 Oct 2001 Posts: 47565
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Posted: Thu Aug 24, 2017 6:06 am Post subject: |
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Judah wrote: |
What would "impact from Luke on developing him" have looked like, since obviously your own ability to [somehow] recognize it is what ultimately determines whether or not it was happening? Enlighten us on what to look for. We're listening. |
Based on your body of work here, there is quite a bit I could enlighten you on.
Ingram improved late in the season as we all saw. But was it coaching that did it or him just getting more comfortable at the NBA level?
If your premise is that Luke did a great job in his first year in LA and is beyond criticism, then I will just let you go with that.
I saw a guy who couldn't get even minimal effort defensively from a young team for a vast majority of the season. The fact that the second half of the season was a mixed message (losing being better than winning) of course didn't help, but IN MY OPINION (<get it, OPINION) he did a mediocre job at best in his first year and needs to show he can be a true coach, not just a buddy.
As far as Ingram's improvement, why don't you enlighten me on exactly what Luke did to accomplish that other than simply playing him more. _________________ Love, Laker Lanny |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Thu Aug 24, 2017 6:20 am Post subject: |
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Next year will be the "7% bodyfat or less" equivalent for Luke as he will be auditioning to be the coach of a possible championship contending team in 2018. Last year was a honeymoon phase as the expectations were low. This year, he needs to show some coaching chops. I'm concerned about his staff as they seem to be more buddies than Xs and Os savants.
Big year for Luke. Cheering for him to succeed but the clock has officially started for him. I think he will need to win 32-35 games to be "safe" for 2018. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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LakerSD Franchise Player
Joined: 10 Nov 2016 Posts: 23731
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Posted: Thu Aug 24, 2017 6:28 am Post subject: |
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yinoma2001 wrote: | Next year will be the "7% bodyfat or less" equivalent for Luke as he will be auditioning to be the coach of a possible championship contending team in 2018. Last year was a honeymoon phase as the expectations were low. This year, he needs to show some coaching chops. I'm concerned about his staff as they seem to be more buddies than Xs and Os savants.
Big year for Luke. Cheering for him to succeed but the clock has officially started for him. I think he will need to win 32-35 games to be "safe" for 2018. |
I also see pressure on Luke and your 32-35 number is probably close. If the lakers are blown out as often as last season, he could be in trouble. |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Thu Aug 24, 2017 6:30 am Post subject: |
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Magic will likely look for improved defense and competitiveness from our team. We lacked that last year. Brook/KCP being brought in as vets instead of Deng/Moz should help right away. And Lonzo should help change the culture of our team. Pretty indicting when a 19 year old is changing the culture of a team with older players. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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Four Decade Bandwagon Star Player
Joined: 18 Jul 2014 Posts: 8127
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Posted: Thu Aug 24, 2017 7:40 am Post subject: |
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The last thing the Lakers need is another coaching changeover. Patience is needed.
I give Walton a lot of leeway in judging him last year. New HC hired to turn around the culture of a dysfunctional team. Still too many remnants from the KFT philosophy and roster. Mixed messages from management. Win or tank?
Walton had to adjust to having the role and responsibilities of being a HC. Not the same as being the assistant. He had to learn the intricacies of the job. All things start and end with him from managing player personalities to press conferences.
Similar to a rookie (Ingram?) he had to adjust to the "speed" of the league.
This year will different. He has a year under his belt in experience and evaluating his performance. He has a much better overall roster that fits what he is trying to develop IMO. Key young guys have a better idea of what he expects and envisions.
My concern is more on the FO. Wish they would stop the messaging about the 2 max. Maybe one positive to come from the tampering investigation will be Magic and Co being less publicly vocal about it and more focus on this roster this season.
IMO Walton is going to be a very good HC if the Lakers can be patient enough to let him get some experience and establish himself. Seemed to me he was great with the young roster. Let that trust and chemistry grow.
Gong to be disappointed if they don't. Easily could see the 2 max plan change the direction and culture for the Lakers and he will get the same treatment as Blatt did in CLE. A mistake IMO. |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Thu Aug 24, 2017 7:44 am Post subject: |
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At a certain point, the FO will evaluate whether Luke can win games. No doubt he's a player's coach, but his Xs and Os leave a lot to be desired.
If we are competing in 2018, Luke will certainly have to show he's the man to do it. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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venturalakersfan Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144432 Location: The Gold Coast
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Posted: Thu Aug 24, 2017 7:49 am Post subject: |
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Luke has coached one season and the team purposely sucked and tanked for a high draft pick. So he was somewhat successful. He has shown he can guide top talent to wins and that he can roll out a pathetic lineup when he is asked to lose. How any other determination about his coaching can be made is difficult to see. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Thu Aug 24, 2017 7:51 am Post subject: |
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venturalakersfan wrote: | Luke has coached one season and the team purposely sucked and tanked for a high draft pick. So he was somewhat successful. He has shown he can guide top talent to wins and that he can roll out a pathetic lineup when he is asked to lose. How any other determination about his coaching can be made is difficult to see. |
This is why the upcoming season is important?
No incentive to tank.
We upgraded the overall talent.
He has Lonzo to run the point.
I expect him to reach the 32-35 win goal; not getting there would be a possible issue for him going forward. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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LakerLanny Retired Number
Joined: 24 Oct 2001 Posts: 47565
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Posted: Thu Aug 24, 2017 7:39 pm Post subject: |
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Four Decade Bandwagon wrote: |
Gong to be disappointed if they don't. Easily could see the 2 max plan change the direction and culture for the Lakers and he will get the same treatment as Blatt did in CLE. A mistake IMO. |
Good post but I just quoted the last bit above...
Cleveland won a title AFTER dumping Blatt although at the time I really did think it was ridiculous and he was getting a raw deal. But Ty Lue had the backing of LeBron and honestly whatever it takes to get the job done is what needs to be done.
If you told me the Lakers could blow out Walton for some other guy and then win a title? I would take that.
With Luke, I just think there is a lot of room for improvement from last season. _________________ Love, Laker Lanny |
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Judah Star Player
Joined: 23 Jun 2015 Posts: 4759
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Posted: Thu Aug 24, 2017 8:40 pm Post subject: |
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LakerLanny wrote: | Judah wrote: |
What would "impact from Luke on developing him" have looked like, since obviously your own ability to [somehow] recognize it is what ultimately determines whether or not it was happening? Enlighten us on what to look for. We're listening. |
Based on your body of work here, there is quite a bit I could enlighten you on.
Ingram improved late in the season as we all saw. But was it coaching that did it or him just getting more comfortable at the NBA level?
If your premise is that Luke did a great job in his first year in LA and is beyond criticism, then I will just let you go with that.
I saw a guy who couldn't get even minimal effort defensively from a young team for a vast majority of the season. The fact that the second half of the season was a mixed message (losing being better than winning) of course didn't help, but IN MY OPINION (<get it, OPINION) he did a mediocre job at best in his first year and needs to show he can be a true coach, not just a buddy.
As far as Ingram's improvement, why don't you enlighten me on exactly what Luke did to accomplish that other than simply playing him more. |
Well, before you enlighten me with that ultra big basketball brain of yours with all of its wisdom and stature, perhaps you should've read what I actually said and made a real attempt to answer the question in a meaningful way. I didn't ask for your overall assessment of Luke as a coach. I asked you to defend your original assertion that Luke had "zero impact" on Ingram's development. The few sentences in this above response that made any mention of Ingram explained zilch. All you did was ask a question you were supposed to be answering since it challenges your entire premise. Are you confused? Seems like you got in the car and started the engine, only to realize you'd forgotten where you were supposed to be going. Go back in the house and sit down on the couch and do your best to think about it. Perhaps it'll come back to you.
Quote: | Ingram improved late in the season as we all saw. But was it coaching that did it or him just getting more comfortable at the NBA level? |
Great question. And I'll leave it to you to answer since you were the one who chose one over the other. Fortunately for me, I don't make a conundrum out of it by restricting it to an "either or" paradigm; nor do I understand the illogic of doing so. Personally, I believe that, one way or another, it's going to be some combination of both. But you obviously disagree with that, no? Answer your own question by explaining why. Still waiting. Hopefully North Korea doesn't send a nuke and blow us all to smithereens before you finally give us the answers, Sway.
Quote: | As far as Ingram's improvement, why don't you enlighten me on exactly what Luke did to accomplish that other than simply playing him more. |
Ironically, I was never suggesting that Luke did some super spectacular job with Ingram. What I didn't get is how you (or anyone) could say Luke had no impact whatsoever on his improvement. It's just an absurd thing to say unless the individual players are so awful that it becomes glaringly obvious that there's a huge coaching issue (ala Byron).
But what I did like was how he used Ingram as the functioning point guard for the second unit at the start of the year to keep him engaged and aggressive as he played with two ball stoppers in Lou and Clarkson, who played like they were having a chucking contest. As the season progressed it certainly appeared to me that Ingram gradually became more comfortable and more confident as a ball handler and playmaker.
It bodes well for he and the rest of the team moving forward because it means he won't be limited to just being a scorer. Lonzo will be playing, at worst, with at least one other facilitator who he can split ball handling duties with every once in awhile and play off the ball some to diversify the point of attack in the offense. Even as he became more aggressive as a scorer, the same confidence in making plays for others that he flashed to start the year was still there. We'll likely see less of it with Lonzo running the show, but I'm expecting that part of Ingram's game to still be there. _________________ “Christ did not die to forgive sinners who go on treasuring anything above seeing and savoring God. And people who would be happy in heaven if Christ were not there, will not be there."
- John Piper |
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nash Star Player
Joined: 23 Oct 2001 Posts: 8194
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Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2017 3:21 am Post subject: |
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Luke won with GS, it is a matter of giving him players.
I hope he improves the team this season, but he is goi g to be judged with the superstars arrival.
Phil was never a Xs and Os was never Phil strength either, I just want to see some defensive schemes in place. I was not mad at him last season because all our guard crop were composed of putrid defenders and we were tanking. For this season a top 20 defense is ok. |
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